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EviscerationPlague wrote:

Voss wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Insularum wrote:
Preview vids are up on YT, doesn't look like there is much not already leaked.

There's basically nothing to discuss at this point - it's a pretty empty codex. All those people spurning that old leak of the unit selection as fake because the page number was 88 must feel pretty silly now.

The Tabletop Tactics codex review started with nostalgia for the Khorne Daemonkin book from 7th. I took that as a bad sign.

They're more excited for the format changes (all the army rules together, for example) than anything else.


They're excited for the lack of subfactions, and less relics/traits/strats, but the discontent at the loss of models is bleeding through early.

Wonder how much GW paid them to be excited about less army rules LMAO

I don't think its that- it has a lot to do with how they play the game. And really, how bad GW has been about dumping in pages and pages of trash rules, particularly in the realm of warlord traits, relics and strats. So paring it down does get rid of some of the bloat.

The unfortunate part (which they also point out) is too much of what's left is still bad. Or pointless in the case of warlord traits, because there is very little reason not to take Angron or the Lord Invocatus. Ever. Especially the LI.


Oh and WE do lose Vindicators. Not any other vehicle, just vindicators. Because reasons.

Voss wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Voss wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Insularum wrote:
Preview vids are up on YT, doesn't look like there is much not already leaked.

There's basically nothing to discuss at this point - it's a pretty empty codex. All those people spurning that old leak of the unit selection as fake because the page number was 88 must feel pretty silly now.

The Tabletop Tactics codex review started with nostalgia for the Khorne Daemonkin book from 7th. I took that as a bad sign.

They're more excited for the format changes (all the army rules together, for example) than anything else.


They're excited for the lack of subfactions, and less relics/traits/strats, but the discontent at the loss of models is bleeding through early.

Wonder how much GW paid them to be excited about less army rules LMAO

I don't think its that- it has a lot to do with how they play the game. And really, how bad GW has been about dumping in pages and pages of trash rules, particularly in the realm of warlord traits, relics and strats. So paring it down does get rid of some of the bloat.

The unfortunate part (which they also point out) is too much of what's left is still bad. Or pointless in the case of warlord traits, because there is very little reason not to take Angron or the Lord Invocatus. Ever. Especially the LI.


Oh and WE do lose Vindicators. Not any other vehicle, just vindicators. Because reasons.

Well yeah, when Marines have over 50+ Warlord Traits to choose from there's gonna be garbage ones due to either being redundant (Salamanders have Iron Resolve, except you regen 1 wound a turn. It's not necessary) or useless because of Core rules themselves (Fear Made Manifest LOL). You have to trim it down obviously. Loyalist Scum should just have around 20-25 max shared between all 9 Chapters.

That's NOT what was done with World Eaters. There's not an effort on the "slimmed down" rules or the unit selection.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Wonder how much GW paid them to be excited about less army rules LMAO

Given rules bloat, mental burden, duplication of rules, unwanted niche strats, obviously qorse traits and relics etc. this place, including you, often complain about. I'd say they were just expressing pleasure at not having to learn 47 strats, 17 army rules and picking from 20ish relics to play a game of 40k for a change.

I think a lot of people would welcome a pruning down of the sheer volume of stuff.

Completely agreed, most of the pruning is probably a good thing. I just don't understand the pruning of Raptors and Vindicators.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Voss wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Voss wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Insularum wrote:
Preview vids are up on YT, doesn't look like there is much not already leaked.

There's basically nothing to discuss at this point - it's a pretty empty codex. All those people spurning that old leak of the unit selection as fake because the page number was 88 must feel pretty silly now.

The Tabletop Tactics codex review started with nostalgia for the Khorne Daemonkin book from 7th. I took that as a bad sign.

They're more excited for the format changes (all the army rules together, for example) than anything else.


They're excited for the lack of subfactions, and less relics/traits/strats, but the discontent at the loss of models is bleeding through early.

Wonder how much GW paid them to be excited about less army rules LMAO

I don't think its that- it has a lot to do with how they play the game. And really, how bad GW has been about dumping in pages and pages of trash rules, particularly in the realm of warlord traits, relics and strats. So paring it down does get rid of some of the bloat.

The unfortunate part (which they also point out) is too much of what's left is still bad. Or pointless in the case of warlord traits, because there is very little reason not to take Angron or the Lord Invocatus. Ever. Especially the LI.


Oh and WE do lose Vindicators. Not any other vehicle, just vindicators. Because reasons.

Well yeah, when Marines have over 50+ Warlord Traits to choose from there's gonna be garbage ones due to either being redundant (Salamanders have Iron Resolve, except you regen 1 wound a turn. It's not necessary) or useless because of Core rules themselves (Fear Made Manifest LOL). You have to trim it down obviously. Loyalist Scum should just have around 20-25 max shared between all 9 Chapters.

That's NOT what was done with World Eaters. There's not an effort on the "slimmed down" rules or the unit selection.

The unit selection is a different issue - one that they were clearly unhappy with (and they should be).

'Slimmed down rules,' on the other hand... Nah. The codex seems fine for that specific issue- they have plenty of goodies in that regard (to the point that I suspect a nerfbat is in their future, because the army lists basically write themselves, and as long as you can touch something with the good stuff, they'll explode). The codex lends itself to point/click, win or lose, and a lot of interesting choices went out the window with the units.

Its just the churn of traits/strats/relics. The stuff codex writers can crap out on a napkin in 15 minutes over lunch, and it usually shows. I completely understand wanting less of that, especially any sign that they're going to get rid of the auto-take stuff.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Voss wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Insularum wrote:
Preview vids are up on YT, doesn't look like there is much not already leaked.

There's basically nothing to discuss at this point - it's a pretty empty codex. All those people spurning that old leak of the unit selection as fake because the page number was 88 must feel pretty silly now.

The Tabletop Tactics codex review started with nostalgia for the Khorne Daemonkin book from 7th. I took that as a bad sign.

They're more excited for the format changes (all the army rules together, for example) than anything else.


They're excited for the lack of subfactions, and less relics/traits/strats, but the discontent at the loss of models is bleeding through early.

Wonder how much GW paid them to be excited about less army rules LMAO

Isn't Rules bloat one of the things people don't like about 9th Ed?

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Voss wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Insularum wrote:
Preview vids are up on YT, doesn't look like there is much not already leaked.

There's basically nothing to discuss at this point - it's a pretty empty codex. All those people spurning that old leak of the unit selection as fake because the page number was 88 must feel pretty silly now.

The Tabletop Tactics codex review started with nostalgia for the Khorne Daemonkin book from 7th. I took that as a bad sign.

They're more excited for the format changes (all the army rules together, for example) than anything else.


They're excited for the lack of subfactions, and less relics/traits/strats, but the discontent at the loss of models is bleeding through early.

Wonder how much GW paid them to be excited about less army rules LMAO

Isn't Rules bloat one of the things people don't like about 9th Ed?

Having more than one choice per FOC slot is not rules bloat. Less relics, traits, stratagems etc. is a good thing, cutting out half of the unit choices is not.

Dreadful codex release. Please for the love of God do not waste your money on this garbage, and maybe consider no longer spending money on GW in a general sense.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Dreadful codex release. Please for the love of God do not waste your money on this garbage, and maybe consider no longer spending money on GW in a general sense.

What happened?

 BertBert wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Dreadful codex release. Please for the love of God do not waste your money on this garbage, and maybe consider no longer spending money on GW in a general sense.

What happened?

Prepare for a dozen whiny posts about how small the range is, how limited the weapons are, "flanderization", "this should've been a supplement or in the CSM book", etc etc.

 zend wrote:

 BertBert wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:
Dreadful codex release. Please for the love of God do not waste your money on this garbage, and maybe consider no longer spending money on GW in a general sense.

What happened?

Prepare for a dozen whiny posts about how small the range is, how limited the weapons are, "flanderization", "this should've been a supplement or in the CSM book", etc etc.

Thousand Sons players be like, "First time?"

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Voss wrote:

 blood reaper wrote:

 Insularum wrote:
Preview vids are up on YT, doesn't look like there is much not already leaked.

There's basically nothing to discuss at this point - it's a pretty empty codex. All those people spurning that old leak of the unit selection as fake because the page number was 88 must feel pretty silly now.

The Tabletop Tactics codex review started with nostalgia for the Khorne Daemonkin book from 7th. I took that as a bad sign.

They're more excited for the format changes (all the army rules together, for example) than anything else.


They're excited for the lack of subfactions, and less relics/traits/strats, but the discontent at the loss of models is bleeding through early.

Wonder how much GW paid them to be excited about less army rules LMAO

Isn't Rules bloat one of the things people don't like about 9th Ed?

No, constant updates because GW won't do it right the first time is what people complain about. The "bloat" via 8th went away.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
No, constant updates because GW won't do it right the first time is what people complain about. The "bloat" via 8th went away.

Bloat is alive and very rotund in current 9th.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The combat patrol box is definitely the bright spot in all of this--great value, great unit selection.

I mean, GW couldn't realistically have messed this box up considering the unit selection for WE.

Ah, to be young and naive...

Six Eightbound, Lord of Executions, Chaos Commisar, and a unit of Bloodletters.

Seeing people pretty excited about the release. Small codex? Yeah, but so is Votann, Harlequins. Admech and Genestealer Cults were pretty slim when they released.

But, seeing people complain about any possible thing is what makes the internet... the internet.

World Eaters have been waiting for this for a long time. It's far from a perfect release, far from an ideal codex.

But, as an Emperor's Children fan, I'd honestly be pretty thrilled if I got Fulgrim, noise marines, a lord on steed, and a beefy specialist troop. Would I start playing the army right away? No, probably not. But, I'd happily buy into those new Noise Marines and other models because I've been waiting 15 years for those models to be updated in modern plastic.

And, I'm sure, other things are planned in the pipeline. May be another 3 years. Maybe longer. But that's just part of the hobby. I can ally with Chaos Daemons or with the core Chaos Space Marines books, or even throw in a Chaos Knight.

 zend wrote:

Prepare for a dozen whiny posts about how small the range is, how limited the weapons are, "flanderization", "this should've been a supplement or in the CSM book", etc etc.

Being willing to eat any garbage shoveled in front of you without any complaint like a good consumerist drone is not the virtue you seem to think it is.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

drbored wrote:
Seeing people pretty excited about the release. Small codex? Yeah, but so is Votann, Harlequins. Admech and Genestealer Cults were pretty slim when they released.

Stop right there. I play Harlequins. I also play Custodes, another "small" book.

This book which doesn't even offer you the ability to take a generic foot World Eaters Chaos Lord is not comparable to those books just because they are also small and I'm not going to allow you to pretend it is.

But, seeing people complain about any possible thing is what makes the internet... the internet.

Have you considered having higher standards for what you put your money toward?

World Eaters have been waiting for this for a long time. It's far from a perfect release, far from an ideal codex.

It's the worst codex released in ninth so far (not necessarily in power level) yeah, I guess that would make it "not perfect", the same way that getting an F means your grades aren't perfect.

But, as an Emperor's Children fan, I'd honestly be pretty thrilled if I got Fulgrim, noise marines, a lord on steed, and a beefy specialist troop. Would I start playing the army right away? No, probably not. But, I'd happily buy into those new Noise Marines and other models because I've been waiting 15 years for those models to be updated in modern plastic.

And that's the reason the reason why GW can put out half-assed crummy releases like this and getting away with it.

And, I'm sure, other things are planned in the pipeline. May be another 3 years. Maybe longer. But that's just part of the hobby. I can ally with Chaos Daemons or with the core Chaos Space Marines books, or even throw in a Chaos Knight.

Per AoO you can not in fact ally this book with the core CSM book actually.

Here's the bottom line: Games Workshop is a billion dollar corporation who fully had the time and resources to give World Eaters a complete release without omitting weird gak liken standard World Eater foot Lords or Vindicators for some inexplicable reason and every fast attack option that isn't a fething Chaos Spawn. Despite fully having the resources to do this they didn't. And why not? Because they know that people with too much money and not enough sense will gladly shovel them money for overpriced garbage.

And that's just talking about this joke of a range. Not even talking about how paper thin the book is from a gameplay perspective and how mono-build they're going to be. As the Goonhammer review states the lists really do build themselves. There is so little room for variety and personal choice in how you build your army which isn't helped at all by the fact that there are more named characters than generic ones and the Lord Invocatus is so incredibly powerful that for the more tournament-minded player there is no reason to not take him other than personal preference. And the design space is similarly paper thin because the army lives and dies on running out, touching things, and then killing them with literally nothing else going for them but their ability to kill things in melee. Like Tau but in reverse, only worse because the various chassis and offensive profiles of the World Eaters are far more homogenous than the various shooting units and weapons of the Tau. The codex is a failure on almost every level.

But who cares right? Look at how cool the three or four new models are. Gotta consoom that new thing right?

I'm reminded of Captain America's line from the first Avengers film:

"When I went under, the world was at war. I wake up, they say we won. They didn't say what we lost."

WE lost far more than they gained.

Anyway, on the subject of the new minis, Naomi from Sword & Steel has a video about putting them together and some of the odd quirks of the kits (including hot leaked naked Eightbound pics! ).




Most interesting is that the Juggerlord appears to be a Carnifex situation, meaning if you can get an extra body (and just the body - you get extra Juggerlegs and a second head in the kit), you can build two Juggerlords from the same kit.

Hmm Naomi of Sword and Steel looks good in red, must be a Khorne fan/follower. I'm serious as red is not everyone's colour you know.


So, if I could do a poll I would, on the general feeling of this codex and specifically where people think the writers were, when they wrote this codex:

A) in the shower
B) on the toilet
C) stuck in traffic
D) a board meeting (bored meeting?)

Somewhere else?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Most interesting is that the Juggerlord appears to be a Carnifex situation, meaning if you can get an extra body (and just the body - you get extra Juggerlegs and a second head in the kit), you can build two Juggerlords from the same kit.

Goonhammer has an example where they used a Bloodcrusher Juggernaut to build both of them:

 Void__Dragon wrote:


Here's the bottom line: Games Workshop is a billion dollar corporation ... Look at how cool the three or four new models are. Gotta consoom that new thing right?

A few points, I'm not impressed with the range offered, clearing that up straight away. They did a bad job on the units included, I don't think it would have hurt to have a few more relics and traits, maybe 8 subfactions for lolz.

That aside, they are not multi billion, they're not even a one billion dollar company. They are a producer of miniatures first and foremost by company statement. So everything you ranted about is literally what they tell you they are on day one.

As for the rest of this "consoomer" gak, stop taking notes off certain other whine-bots and go calm down. Not worth being angry about it all to the point you generalise and insult others.

I'm a bit late to the party because I had to sort out issues with our webspace, but here is my review of the new World Eaters kits:

https://taleofpainters.com/2023/02/review-world-eaters-khorne-berzerkers-jakhals-and-lord-invocatus-lord-on-juggernaut/

There are some high res sprue pics for those that want to check out all the heads in the new Berzerkers kit, and I also go through all the assembly options.

Honestly the only things I'd really addon to what we got mini wise is a set of Short Range oriented Berzerker Havocs, a Butcher Surgeon (CSM take on an Apothecary) and some sort of possessed tank.

Give the Berzerker Havocs some sort of belt fed Grenade launcher, a Reaper Chain cannon, a plasma cannon and either Heavy Flamers or a bespoke counterpart.

Butcher Surgeon would be a healer and decent melee combatant. Perhaps have his kills heal nearby allies.

But other all the big issue with this release is that it does not feel satisfying. Nobody likes going from having a bunch of variation even if you are just a subfaction from a larger book, to a tiny fragment splintered off and now have 1/4th your prior options. It feels lazy. It feels low effort. I love some of these minis mind you. Angron looks awesome, the new Berzerkers are also pretty awesome, so is the Juggernaut Lord. But the Eightbound and Exalted Eightbound model wise feel very samey, if they had rolled those Exalted 8 bound into a Sergeant type model for the others and then threw in some Red Butchers it would feel better since it would be more in theme with the other God Books.

They're not a miniatures first company.
Such a company would sell you all the different marks, civilians, cars, taverns, weapon packs, the various non faction xenos., etc etc.
And they wouldn't be charging an arm and a leg for it.

I've stopped playing the game and I'm only converting models now. And even so the kits are bad.
Whoever decided that melee weapons are 100% on the left side of the models and bolt pistols/bolters are 100% on the right side should be fired.
And why do they continue to make upgrade options....but only for heresy?
Why are CSM all made as Black Legion?

They either suck as miniature first company....or they just want you to believe that they are.

 Roknar wrote:

Spoiler:

Dudeface wrote:

 Void__Dragon wrote:


Here's the bottom line: Games Workshop is a billion dollar corporation ... Look at how cool the three or four new models are. Gotta consoom that new thing right?

A few points, I'm not impressed with the range offered, clearing that up straight away. They did a bad job on the units included, I don't think it would have hurt to have a few more relics and traits, maybe 8 subfactions for lolz.

That aside, they are not multi billion, they're not even a one billion dollar company. They are a producer of miniatures first and foremost by company statement. So everything you ranted about is literally what they tell you they are on day one.

As for the rest of this "consoomer" gak, stop taking notes off certain other whine-bots and go calm down. Not worth being angry about it all to the point you generalise and insult others.

They're not a miniatures first company.
Such a company would sell you all the different marks, civilians, cars, taverns, weapon packs, the various non faction xenos., etc etc.
And they wouldn't be charging an arm and a leg for it.

I've stopped playing the game and I'm only converting models now. And even so the kits are bad.
Whoever decided that melee weapons are 100% on the left side of the models and bolt pistols/bolters are 100% on the right side should be fired.
And why do they continue to make upgrade options....but only for heresy?
Why are CSM all made as Black Legion?

They either suck as miniature first company....or they just want you to believe that they are.

Not all CSM are black legion and have no iconography to that extent on each marine? As for the legion upgrade kits nobody can answer that. But looking at their rules and how they're designed purely to the model kits, you're going to have a hard time convincing anyone they're a rules first organisation.

Didn't say it was, just that it's not a miniature company...or a bad one at that. ...They're bad at writing rules too

Dudeface wrote:


A few points, I'm not impressed with the range offered, clearing that up straight away. They did a bad job on the units included, I don't think it would have hurt to have a few more relics and traits, maybe 8 subfactions for lolz.

But will you pay for these models anytime soon? Are you going to buy the codex?

That aside, they are not multi billion, they're not even a one billion dollar company.

https://companiesmarketcap.com/games-workshop-group/marketcap/

Try to do at least basic research before posting next time.

They are a producer of miniatures first and foremost by company statement. So everything you ranted about is literally what they tell you they are on day one.

Let's say that I charitably ignore Roknar blowing you out in the posts following yours: so what? Per GW's own mission statement the game itself is a "key part" of their hobby and business model and integral to the success of their business. And even if that's not true, so what? Are you asserting that you can't criticize the company or the people who enable their gakky business practices because they are allegedly a "miniatures first" company? No my friend, I'm afraid I can. I will.

As for the rest of this "consoomer" gak, stop taking notes off certain other whine-bots and go calm down. Not worth being angry about it all to the point you generalise and insult others.

I lose absolutely nothing to take a few minutes out of my day of being sick at home with COVID to gak on Games Workshop or the whales who enable them my friend. Your bad faith concern is noted.

That doesn't make much sense Roknar, I can name companies that sell only miniatures (presumably making them miniatures companies) but don't sell taverns, cars, etc etc. If you're trying to say miniatures companies should sell miniatures in general, here are examples, that's what GW do, but not those specific examples. If you're saying miniatures companies need to sell every single miniature I think that's an illogical stipulation. If you're saying something different then I haven't understood your argument.

Watching the reviews by Tabletop Tactics and Auspex I am struck by something rather stark:

This is a Codex supplement ripped out of the CSM book and fattened up into its own (largely hollow) book. It's like the Red Corsairs and Creations of bile. 3 relics, 3 Warlord traits, 1 page of strats. No sub-factions of their own. No points-based upgrades. They're not an army book like CSM, 1KSons or Death Guard. They're a sub-faction put into its own book.

It's truly bizarre.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Watching the reviews by Tabletop Tactics and Auspex I am struck by something rather stark:

This is a Codex supplement ripped out of the CSM book and fattened up into its own (largely hollow) book. It's like the Red Corsairs and Creations of bile. 3 relics, 3 Warlord traits, 1 page of strats. No sub-factions of their own. No points-based upgrades. They're not an army book like CSM, 1KSons or Death Guard. They're a sub-faction put into its own book.

It's truly bizarre.

Don't forget the "super doctrines" that were leaked alongside the rest of the rules that will certainly come out in the next few month !

Soon available at the Games WorkshopTMCR nearest to you

 Void__Dragon wrote:

Try to do at least basic research before posting next time.

That's a pretty clear misunderstanding as your post was ambigious; Dudeface obviously you were refering to revenue rather than market cap.

By all means though continue being weirdly patronising to strangers on the Internet though. Your opinions are the only correct ones afterall.