Chaos Daemons codex, news and rumours

Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:

No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.

If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

**DreadfullyHopeful**

Spreelock wrote:
So, here's a summary of belakors disciples

Restrictions
- all units in army must have chaos keyword
- belakor must be your warlord
- no other named characters or daemon Princes are allowed
- no greater daemons or daemon engines are allowed
- no berzerkers, rubrics, plague marines or noise marines are allowed
- no world eaters, thousand sons, death guard or emperors children are allowed
- no marks of chaos are allowed
- no more cultists units in a detachment than traitoris astartes infantry
- no chaos titans or chaos knights (you can include one chaos knight from house korvax)
- if you include chaos knight and want to have it upgraded with favoured ability, you can only have blessing of dark master
- no mixing traitoris astartes and daemons in a detachment
- if you include daemons, you must have atleast one unit from every god before adding a second, third, etc.

Benefits
- all units gain disciples of belakor keyword
- chaos marine units gain legion disciples keyword
- daemons units gain legion daemonica keyword
- your army can include one chaos knight from house korvax (super heavy auxiliary), and it gains traits from chaos knights
- all troops gain obsec (currently only way to get nurglings obsec)
- chaos marines never gain legion trait (eg. Black legion, iron warriors), and they cannot use relics, stratagems or traits from csm codex
- you have access to belakors stratagems
- every psyker can have their powers from noctic discipline
- chaos marines gain disciples of shadow trait insted of legion trait (+ 1 combat attrition, - 1 to-hit if more than 12" away)
- your army has access to warp storm ability, even if it includes chaos marines

Damn geedubs, why don't you make us play with our hands behind our backs while your at it. Also, lol at the +1 to CA

**ArcaneHorror**

At the moment and when the new codex comes out, it strikes me that Be'lakor works better as a second hard-hitting HQ unit next to a greater daemon in a regular daemon army than as the warlord with his own army rules.

**Wha-Mu-077**

ArcaneHorror wrote:
At the moment and when the new codex comes out, it strikes me that Be'lakor works better as a second hard-hitting HQ unit next to a greater daemon in a regular daemon army than as the warlord with his own army rules.

Funny that is, Belakor seems like a really good choice, but only outside his own faction

**Gadzilla666**

Spreelock wrote:
So, here's a summary of belakors disciples

Restrictions
- all units in army must have chaos keyword
- belakor must be your warlord
- no other named characters or daemon Princes are allowed
- no greater daemons or daemon engines are allowed
- no berzerkers, rubrics, plague marines or noise marines are allowed
- no world eaters, thousand sons, death guard or emperors children are allowed
- no marks of chaos are allowed
- no more cultists units in a detachment than traitoris astartes infantry
- no chaos titans or chaos knights (you can include one chaos knight from house korvax)
- if you include chaos knight and want to have it upgraded with favoured ability, you can only have blessing of dark master
- no mixing traitoris astartes and daemons in a detachment
- if you include daemons, you must have atleast one unit from every god before adding a second, third, etc.

Benefits
- all units gain disciples of belakor keyword
- chaos marine units gain legion disciples keyword
- daemons units gain legion daemonica keyword
- your army can include one chaos knight from house korvax (super heavy auxiliary), and it gains traits from chaos knights
- all troops gain obsec (currently only way to get nurglings obsec)
- chaos marines never gain legion trait (eg. Black legion, iron warriors), and they cannot use relics, stratagems or traits from csm codex
- you have access to belakors stratagems
- every psyker can have their powers from noctic discipline
- chaos marines gain disciples of shadow trait insted of legion trait (+ 1 combat attrition, - 1 to-hit if more than 12" away)
- your army has access to warp storm ability, even if it includes chaos marines

Good grief! And to think that I was annoyed that I couldn't have a LoW in a Terror Assault list.

And how is: "Chaos Marines never gain a Legion trait (eg. Black Legion, Iron Warriors), and they cannot use relics, stratagems, or traits from csm codex" a benefit? Are all of the silly restrictions that gw puts on Chaos armies supposed to be "beneficial" now?

**Spreelock**

Well, the summary is same as in the book

**Gadzilla666**

Spreelock wrote:
Well, the summary is same as in the book

Apologies. I wasn't implying that the information that you provided was incorrect, I just find it funny that gw considers restrictions to be benefits.

**H.B.M.C.**

So... Be'lakor can't have Soulgrinders in his army?

**Mchagen**

These Disciples of Be'lakor rules aren't new, they're almost a copy paste from the previous Charadon Book of Fire supplement. I'm not sure if people are shocked at reading them for a first time or shocked they changed very little.

Also, 'chaos marines never gain a legion trait' is listed under the same benefits bullet point as Disciples of Shadows (+1 to combat attrition and -1 to hit from more than 12").

Among all the ridiculous restrictions, the daemon limits for each god are the worst part of this army of renown and make playing/building this army a complete irritation.

**JNAProductions**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
So... Be'lakor can't have Soulgrinders in his army?

I think Daemon Engines are the CSM side-Mauler/Forge Fiends, Heldrakes, Lord Discordant and Defiler.

But who knows?

**Spreelock**

Yes, I've noticed that too. It's definately a different way to play daemons. It's main advantage is to play soup-style-list, with daemons, marines and a knight, while having the warp storm ability.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Disciples of belakor stratagems;

Shadow pact (1cp)
Use in command phase. Then select one undivided legion disciples infantry unit, and choose one pact for them
- +1 attack per model
- 5+ invulnerable save
- +1 toughness
- +1 movement, +1 advance / charge

Daemonic boon (1cp)
Use in fight phase. Then select one legion disciples unit (excluding vehicle) that is within 6" of friendly daemonic disciples unit. Add +1 strenght to models in that legion disciples unit, and melee attack hit-roll of 6 auto-wounds.

Legions of shade (1cp)
Use in movement phase or charge phase. Then select one disciples of belakor unit. That unit can move horizontally through other models.

Mortal boon (2cp)
Use in morale phase. Then select daemonic disciples unit that is within 6" of friendly legion disciples unit (excluding vehicle). That daemonic disciples unit auto-pass morale.

Draught of terror (1cp)
Use in morale phase. Then select one daemonic disciples unit. That unit gains aura;
While enemy unit is within 6", each time model flees;
- if this unit has lost any wounds, regains one wound
- if this unit has not lost any wounds but is below starting strenght, return one destroyed model with one wound remaining
- models returned can be placed within engagement only if enemy units already are

Blessing of belakor (2cp)
Use in any phase, when armour save is failed for disciples of belakor unit. If belakor is on the battlefield, change damage to 0.

**godswildcard**

I’m not really up-to-date on demons at all, and I apologize for the stupid question, but what is the issue with the Belakor list? I’m 100% sure my brain just isn’t grasping it this morning. To me it looks like you’re loosing out on too many CSM options and you have to take multiple god-specific demons of each god, but what else am I missing? Would the list still be fun in crusade?

**whembly**

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
ArcaneHorror wrote:
At the moment and when the new codex comes out, it strikes me that Be'lakor works better as a second hard-hitting HQ unit next to a greater daemon in a regular daemon army than as the warlord with his own army rules.

Funny that is, Belakor seems like a really good choice, but only outside his own faction

Yup. That's my read.

I have a CSM Abby list, and thinking of just doing that.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Spreelock wrote:
Yes, I've noticed that too. It's definately a different way to play daemons. It's main advantage is to play soup-style-list, with daemons, marines and a knight, while having the warp storm ability.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
Disciples of belakor stratagems;

Spoiler:

Shadow pact (1cp)
Use in command phase. Then select one undivided legion disciples infantry unit, and choose one pact for them
- +1 attack per model
- 5+ invulnerable save
- +1 toughness
- +1 movement, +1 advance / charge

Daemonic boon (1cp)
Use in fight phase. Then select one legion disciples unit (excluding vehicle) that is within 6" of friendly daemonic disciples unit. Add +1 strenght to models in that legion disciples unit, and melee attack hit-roll of 6 auto-wounds.

Legions of shade (1cp)
Use in movement phase or charge phase. Then select one disciples of belakor unit. That unit can move horizontally through other models.

Mortal boon (2cp)
Use in morale phase. Then select daemonic disciples unit that is within 6" of friendly legion disciples unit (excluding vehicle). That daemonic disciples unit auto-pass morale.

Draught of terror (1cp)
Use in morale phase. Then select one daemonic disciples unit. That unit gains aura;
While enemy unit is within 6", each time model flees;
- if this unit has lost any wounds, regains one wound
- if this unit has not lost any wounds but is below starting strenght, return one destroyed model with one wound remaining
- models returned can be placed within engagement only if enemy units already are

Blessing of belakor (2cp)
Use in any phase, when armour save is failed for disciples of belakor unit. If belakor is on the battlefield, change damage to 0.

**Jidmah**

godswildcard wrote:
I’m not really up-to-date on demons at all, and I apologize for the stupid question, but what is the issue with the Belakor list? I’m 100% sure my brain just isn’t grasping it this morning. To me it looks like you’re loosing out on too many CSM options and you have to take multiple god-specific demons of each god, but what else am I missing? Would the list still be fun in crusade?

Unless I'm missing something, it's the same as before, except you can no longer have daemons and CSM in the same detachment, but you can now have a knight.

It's not that different from other limited AoR like Terminus Est or Speed Freeks, so I assume most people freaking out are those which either don't play the game regularly or aren't well aware of what exists outside of their army.

**H.B.M.C.**

Jidmah wrote:
... so I assume most people freaking out are those which either don't play the game regularly or aren't well aware of what exists outside of their army.

Or they don't have weird new arbitrary limitations slapped on their armies.

But no, you're probably right. It's 'cause they don't understand the game.

**Jidmah**

Thanks for proving my point.

Those limitation are neither new, nor arbitrary, nor do they limit an existing disciples army in any way.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
For your convenience, I highlighted everything yellow which is the same as before, everything red which is more restricting and everything green which is less restricting.

Spreelock wrote:
So, here's a summary of belakors disciples

Restrictions
- all units in army must have chaos keyword
- belakor must be your warlord
- no other named characters or daemon Princes are allowed
- no greater daemons or daemon engines are allowed
- no berzerkers, rubrics, plague marines or noise marines are allowed
- no world eaters, thousand sons, death guard or emperors children are allowed
- no marks of chaos are allowed
- no more cultists units in a detachment than traitoris astartes infantry
- no chaos titans or chaos knights (you can include one chaos knight from house korvax)
- if you include chaos knight and want to have it upgraded with favoured ability, you can only have blessing of dark master
- no mixing traitoris astartes and daemons in a detachment
- if you include daemons, you must have atleast one unit from every god before adding a second, third, etc.

**H.B.M.C.**

So basically half is different.

As I said: People don't like having their armies changed arbitrarily.

I mean, Christ, does this look like fun to you:

Restrictions
- all units in army must have chaos keyword
- belakor must be your warlord
- no other named characters or daemon Princes are allowed
- no greater daemons or daemon engines are allowed
- no berzerkers, rubrics, plague marines or noise marines are allowed
- no world eaters, thousand sons, death guard or emperors children are allowed
- no marks of chaos are allowed
- no more cultists units in a detachment than traitoris astartes infantry
- no chaos titans or chaos knights (you can include one chaos knight from house korvax)
- if you include chaos knight and want to have it upgraded with favoured ability, you can only have blessing of dark master
- no mixing traitoris astartes and daemons in a detachment
- if you include daemons, you must have atleast one unit from every god before adding a second, third, etc.

**Tyran**

It is an AoR. If you don't like arbitrary limitations, then simply do not play AoR. It isn't as if GW is forcing everyone to play as Disciples of Be'lakor.

**H.B.M.C.**

And what incentive are they giving people to play it?

**Jidmah**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
So basically half is different.

As I said: People don't like having their armies changed arbitrarily.

Help me out here, are you incapable of doing math or are you willing to bend it because you hate admitting when you are wrong so much?

Disciples player gained the ability to run a single knight.
The cannot buy marks for units, which they couldn't do before anyways. Because they didn't exist.

Literally the only new limitation is having to sort your army into detachments. But according to H.B.M.C.-math this apparently is "half".

I mean, Christ, does this look like fun to you:

Restrictions

Spoiler:

- all units in army must have chaos keyword
- belakor must be your warlord
- no other named characters or daemon Princes are allowed
- no greater daemons or daemon engines are allowed
- no berzerkers, rubrics, plague marines or noise marines are allowed
- no world eaters, thousand sons, death guard or emperors children are allowed
- no marks of chaos are allowed
- no more cultists units in a detachment than traitoris astartes infantry
- no chaos titans or chaos knights (you can include one chaos knight from house korvax)
- if you include chaos knight and want to have it upgraded with favoured ability, you can only have blessing of dark master
- no mixing traitoris astartes and daemons in a detachment
- if you include daemons, you must have atleast one unit from every god before adding a second, third, etc.

I regularly play against a desicated disciples army and they guy is definitely having a lot of fun with his unique army.
Meanwhile, you clearly have never seen it before and are still whining about it from your armchair.

And do you know what's best about it? You can chose to just not run your army as an Army of Reknown and play any models you like, including a mixed CSM/Daemons force lead by Belakor.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

H.B.M.C. wrote:
And what incentive are they giving people to play it?

Why don't you try to find out that yourself, considering the vast knowledge you clearly based your well-informed opinion on this army on?

**EviscerationPlague**

Different detachments is NOT a small change

**chaos0xomega**

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Different detachments is NOT a small change

but not one which breaks playability of the army.

**EviscerationPlague**

chaos0xomega wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
Different detachments is NOT a small change

but not one which breaks playability of the army.

It does if they were choosing not to use a particular army's HQ to begin with

**alextroy**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
And what incentive are they giving people to play it?

The Noctic Discipline, access to Warp Storm in an army with CSM, and the Disciplines of Belakor Legion trait? Surely that is all nothing

**JNAProductions**

How good is the discipline and warp storm?

Because the Legion Trait is Alpha Legion, but slightly worse.

**Gordon Shumway**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
So basically half is different.

As I said: People don't like having their armies changed arbitrarily.

I mean, Christ, does this look like fun to you:

Restrictions
- all units in army must have chaos keyword
- belakor must be your warlord
- no other named characters or daemon Princes are allowed
- no greater daemons or daemon engines are allowed
- no berzerkers, rubrics, plague marines or noise marines are allowed
- no world eaters, thousand sons, death guard or emperors children are allowed
- no marks of chaos are allowed
- no more cultists units in a detachment than traitoris astartes infantry
- no chaos titans or chaos knights (you can include one chaos knight from house korvax)
- if you include chaos knight and want to have it upgraded with favoured ability, you can only have blessing of dark master
- no mixing traitoris astartes and daemons in a detachment
- if you include daemons, you must have atleast one unit from every god before adding a second, third, etc.

How is 4 half of 12? That’s some GW level math there. Seriously, I had to really squint when the new rules were released to notice the differences from the previous version of the army. Ever play it? Planning on it? Just wanna complain? Okay then.

**EviscerationPlague**

JNAProductions wrote:
How good is the discipline and warp storm?

Because the Legion Trait is Alpha Legion, but slightly worse.

The Psyker powers aren't bad but they're not worth.....this.

**Arbiter_Shade**

Damn, I was so excited for this book to come out. After seeing so many armies get so many cool and unique rules I thought that surely Daemons, an army of chaos and powerful warp abilities, was going to have some really interesting abilities! Wow was I wrong. The codex is so damn bland, there is no benefit to going mono-god and they seem to be trying to shoehorn Daemons into an elite army but they forgot to give them elite stats.

There is so much I want to say but what is the point, the best I can sum up is look at Plaguebearers....

T5 2W 5+/4+ with 2 attacks hitting at S4 AP -2 (Really -1 since everything seems to have AoC) D1 tohit of 6 autowounds all wrapped up in a LD7 package...LD is going to be a killer for this army that is supposed to be about making everyones LD...as bad as theirs? Capped at squads of 10. Poor Bloodletters have it worse.

**Mchagen**

Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Damn, I was so excited for this book to come out. After seeing so many armies get so many cool and unique rules I thought that surely Daemons, an army of chaos and powerful warp abilities, was going to have some really interesting abilities! Wow was I wrong. The codex is so damn bland, there is no benefit to going mono-god and they seem to be trying to shoehorn Daemons into an elite army but they forgot to give them elite stats.

There is so much I want to say but what is the point, the best I can sum up is look at Plaguebearers....

T5 2W 5+/4+ with 2 attacks hitting at S4 AP -2 (Really -1 since everything seems to have AoC) D1 tohit of 6 autowounds all wrapped up in a LD7 package...LD is going to be a killer for this army that is supposed to be about making everyones LD...as bad as theirs? Capped at squads of 10. Poor Bloodletters have it worse.

Squad sizes of 5-20 or even 5-15 would have been sufficient for the troops choices and would fit their updated profiles while giving some 'option' for the units.

The new codex books are moving away from extra stacking abilities, super doctrines, etc--which is good. The benefit of going mono-god is access to god-specific warp storm abilities.

Other than the poor unit sizes for troops, from what I've seen I think this codex looks far better than the previous two daemon books.

**BorderCountess**

Mchagen wrote:
Arbiter_Shade wrote:
Damn, I was so excited for this book to come out. After seeing so many armies get so many cool and unique rules I thought that surely Daemons, an army of chaos and powerful warp abilities, was going to have some really interesting abilities! Wow was I wrong. The codex is so damn bland, there is no benefit to going mono-god and they seem to be trying to shoehorn Daemons into an elite army but they forgot to give them elite stats.

There is so much I want to say but what is the point, the best I can sum up is look at Plaguebearers....

T5 2W 5+/4+ with 2 attacks hitting at S4 AP -2 (Really -1 since everything seems to have AoC) D1 tohit of 6 autowounds all wrapped up in a LD7 package...LD is going to be a killer for this army that is supposed to be about making everyones LD...as bad as theirs? Capped at squads of 10. Poor Bloodletters have it worse.
Squad sizes of 5-20 or even 5-15 would have been sufficient for the troops choices and would fit their updated profiles while giving some 'option' for the units.

The new codex books are moving away from extra stacking abilities, super doctrines, etc--which is good. The benefit of going mono-god is access to god-specific warp storm abilities.

Other than the poor unit sizes for troops, from what I've seen I think this codex looks far better than the previous two daemon books.

At least Tzeentch doesn't feel like it's getting punished for getting into melee anymo- ::double-checks save stat on Horrors, and notes that Flamers' weapons are now Assault:: ...oh.

**The Phazer**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
And what incentive are they giving people to play it?

I would argue the traits are nearly broken good, so the army needs some downsides in selection to make it work.