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There were once very intricate forumware Tyranids with separate limbs. They are utter madness to assemble and keep intact over time.

CadianSgtBob wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Stuff.

That's a lot of words to say "all I care about is my boring as hell red marines fighting blue marines and you don't deserve to play my game". Sorry, but the reality is that the vast majority of what made 30k popular was playing it as a 40k expansion and using the models in 40k armies. If it had been a separate game with no compatibility with normal 40k it would have died on release and that would have been the end of it.

Whatever you have to tell yourself at night while you sob yourself to sleep clutching your xenos waifu pillow. I think we all know that Horus Heresy was popular enough on its own merit, what with Space Marine players alone accounting for something like 30% of GWs sales, and that loose compatibility with 40k was a secondary feature that was a "nice to have" for some but irrelevant for most that invested deeply into it.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Whatever you have to tell yourself at night while you sob yourself to sleep clutching your xenos waifu pillow.

Nice to know we can stay civil in a discussion about extra tiny toy soldiers in a game that hasn't even been released and doesn't even have any genuine rumours.

Agreed. The discussion of scale is irrelevent at this point. Epic has not been announced to be talking about it in detail.

As for the heated arguments, we're on a forum where the moderaters give us more leeway than most others. Its good of them to do that so lets be mature going forward and thus worthy of that leeway.

With that said, lets move on.

lolz

Personally I think the 30k setting is... least interesting. 40k and 41k have a lot more to offer in terms of stories and adventure.
... and well... with Craftworld Eldar and Tau among my favourite fleets... xenos must be part



To whatever said that about low standards and miniatures must be better:
Any examples of what you consider high standard miniatures for epic?
(Images pleasy)

Don't think there is anything wrong with the humble classic GW mk1 Rhino!

I think so far I've finished about 40+ of these little guys for my force with more to come. They are still cheap to get hold of as they sold in the tens of thousands and they paint up quickly - not sure what would have happened if I had had to assemble a multi-part kit for something this tiny! (I guess I would be fielding a lot less. I agree one of the appeals of Epic is you can smash out companies of stuff in no time, although on the other side I do love to see people super-detailing and converting too!)

SamusDrake wrote:
Agreed. The discussion of scale is irrelevent at this point. Epic has not been announced to be talking about it in detail.

As for the heated arguments, we're on a forum where the moderaters give us more leeway than most others. Its good of them to do that so lets be mature going forward and thus worthy of that leeway.

With that said, lets move on.

Well said, sir!

I must say, Pacific, seeing those old Rhinos brings back memories of my first brush strokes in the early 90s. I was about 13 back then and...pffff had no idea at all. One thick coat, naturally!

 Pacific wrote:
Don't think there is anything wrong with the humble classic GW mk1 Rhino!

I think so far I've finished about 40+ of these little guys for my force with more to come. They are still cheap to get hold of as they sold in the tens of thousands and they paint up quickly - not sure what would have happened if I had had to assemble a multi-part kit for something this tiny! (I guess I would be fielding a lot less. I agree one of the appeals of Epic is you can smash out companies of stuff in no time, although on the other side I do love to see people super-detailing and converting too!)

Spoiler:

They're a good match for the Rhinos that existed at the time also.

I think these days, a 3 piece Rhino would make sense, one for the middle then 1 for each side, simply because modern rhinos have more detail and overhangs on their sides that wouldn't be possible in a single piece. The way modern GW sprues are laid out, that would still allow for a single "tank sprue" that has multiples of 3 or 4 varieties of tank.

But I think if they start breaking it down further than that (4 separate pieces for the exhausts, separate pieces for the hatches and so on) then it starts to become excessive.

Yes I think that would probably be reasonable AllSeeingSkink - just a bit of modular detail, but keep them as an easy construction and straightforward to make in volume.

I think in all honesty (and sounding like a stuck record now) this is the only modern Epic we are likely to get; 2-3 sprues with a number of different infantry and tank options, a decal set thrown in on the side. Would be a quick one-and-done for GW, nostalgia buyers and even Heresy fans who are too young for Epic or didn't try first time around would jump straight in. It would be low risk for GW and I would be very surprised if they don't try it.

SamusDrake wrote:
I must say, Pacific, seeing those old Rhinos brings back memories of my first brush strokes in the early 90s. I was about 13 back then and...pffff had no idea at all. One thick coat, naturally!

I will say a lot of the Rhinos I've got hold of 2nd hand have looked very similar! Giving them a new coat of paint and a fresh lease of life now

 Sherrypie wrote:
There were once very intricate forumware Tyranids with separate limbs. They are utter madness to assemble and keep intact over time.

I have a crate of thousand sons forumware that I must get around too soon. The deepest level hell is just a room with the guy that deigned the those separate marine backpacks!

That honestly sounds like you are describing the start of one of the Hellraiser films and trying to get into one of their 'special puzzle boxes'

Crossposting from the Titanicus thread since I forget there was a thread for it:

Take with a pinch of salt, but I heard from a trusted (but not necessarily reliable) source that the Epic reboot is real. No timeline offered other than assurances that they knew it to be coming in the near future. This takes me from the "Epic rumors are made up bs, stop wasting my time" camp into the "this is happening" camp.

For clarity - source is ex-GW corporate management, probably 20 years removed. Still well connected with GW staff, including folks in the design studio - they are on a first name basis with many names at GW that folks might recognize, and speaks and visits with many of them semi-regularly. Has whispered rumors to me in the past, many of which turned out to be true or "true", but quite a few which turned out to be not be as well. In general, their rumors are "broad brushstrokes" rather than specifics, so I don't know anything else beyond "epic reboot is being worked on and coming soon" - if they had details about inclusion of infantry, vehicles, etc. they would not say one way or another, etc. Just wait and see.

I thought that epic armagedon did come in a starterbox it contained spacemarines, orks and the rulebook. Later swordwind came out for steellegion, feral-orks and eldar lists.
The above seems to be falls. But i have no memory buying the 3 edition, because i dont have the rulebooks but i do have the models and the 2 books that came out as a 4the edition.

I still cal me a stupid for traiding the ork half for more spacemarines.

3d printing can give you a lot of detail without having to do multi part models.

It would be a nighmare to compose multipart infatrie models.

But multipart makes it easier to kitbash! I love me some good kitbashing!

The mad world of 6mm conversions, a terrifying place that few are brave enough to enter, and even less leave alive

Somebody talking about 6 mm conversions? Count me in

with all the signs and references to an epic remake: I don't believe it until it's officially announced. I just can't imagine how GW wants to make money with such a system, with all the third-party manufacturers. Titanicus, Aeronautica, BFG, ... ok, they have enough unique selling points and still enough competition with 3D printers, but tanks and soldiers...?

Because they will be GW design tanks and soldiers same as how AT is GW design mechs and AN is GW design aircraft and such.

Plus a great many 3rd parties in this market are often copy-catting GW design elements; which clearly shows that those designs are popular.

Also don't forget reach - GW has their own stores, marketing, retailers and more that vastly increases their market reach over most 3rd parties.


Plus for some getting a model in plastic is a boon - they don't want cast resin; 3d prints; metal or such.

I mean, up to a point...

I'd rather not have 20-pieces Rhinos if I could help it.

Yes Overread although a lot of the independently produced 3D print miniatures are pretty much exactly the same as their 28mm official counterparts, I don't think you can even call them proxies, as you would for Vanguard or Onslaught Miniatures. And at the small scale there are only so many differences possible.

You have to also think that stuff like 3D printing, fan-supported rules and even coming onto sites like Dakka are only for people really invested into the hobby. There are a much larger group of casual gamers who just go into a GW store, an FLGS or whatever and just pickup what is on the shelf. They don't know enough about the 3rd party stuff or perhaps have the time or inclination to do anything other than buy new and shrink-wrapped from GW. So for those people, an official release will be great because it will make a lot of people at a scale (I think the best one! that they might otherwise not.

This is partly why I am running an Epic intro event. There is a whole generation now who haven't even seen an Epic game released officially, or maybe even know of its existence. Or who have never played such a great ruleset as Epic, so I hope to give people an opportunity to see the game in action and give it a try themselves.

I, for one, hope epic is never resurrected. I like it being dead without the corruption of power creep and pay to win. I have a nice printer and willing to lose every game based solely on my own incompetence, thank you very much.

I have found a lot of vehicles you can proxy but i did not find good infantrie. Have seen a lot of metal mini's but they where bad castings.
you can say a lot of gw prices but they make the best minatures. even the old epic mini's are better then those that company's sell today.

I can definitely vouch for Vanguard Miniatures Skeleton - I have spent probably £hundreds on their infantry and tanks, I don't think I have had to throw away a single little guy (just the odd broken one because of my clumsy fingers!)

Doktor_G I know what you mean about the power creep and rule changes. You just have to look at what is happening with new 40k FAQs or even with the new HH release, where suddenly people have armies or units (that cost hundreds) that they suddenly can't use anymore and are waiting for a new release. Even with Blood Bowl, I had to change my team, that ruleset survived so many years with no support and is perfectly fine. There is an element of "please just leave it the feth alone"!

 skeleton wrote:
I have found a lot of vehicles you can proxy but i did not find good infantrie. Have seen a lot of metal mini's but they where bad castings.
you can say a lot of gw prices but they make the best minatures. even the old epic mini's are better then those that company's sell today.

Vanguard Miniatures is the place to be for decent infantry and vehicles

Thinking about a relaunched version of Epic, I was listening to a Podcast the other day about Imperius Dominatus, and wondered why don't GW just get Peter Ramos and David McDonald's version of the rules and just use those under license?

- Both of those guys have been involved with Epic since its creation, they understand what the system is about, what works and what doesn't.
- They created NetEpic, which is quite possibly the most enduring version of the game globally.
- They have created a system with all of the modern 40k units (so Primaris, new SM vehicles, everything) and come up with a formula-based system to create accurate points values and balancing.
- It's a 'modern' game: D10 system, lack of overblown special rules and a logical/intuitive set of mechanics. It looks and feels like what Epic should be if it were designed and built from the ground up in the modern era.

I know there is probably more chance of Rick Priestley returning to helm 40k and completely overhaul the rules, but something like this, to me, would make absolutely perfect sense and be such a good 'fit' for everyone involved. And most importantly the players.

 Pacific wrote:
Thinking about a relaunched version of Epic, I was listening to a Podcast the other day about Imperius Dominatus, and wondered why don't GW just get Peter Ramos and David McDonald's version of the rules and just use those under license?

- Both of those guys have been involved with Epic since its creation, they understand what the system is about, what works and what doesn't.
- They created NetEpic, which is quite possibly the most enduring version of the game globally.
- They have created a system with all of the modern 40k units (so Primaris, new SM vehicles, everything) and come up with a formula-based system to create accurate points values and balancing.
- It's a 'modern' game: D10 system, lack of overblown special rules and a logical/intuitive set of mechanics. It looks and feels like what Epic should be if it were designed and built from the ground up in the modern era.

I know there is probably more chance of Rick Priestley returning to helm 40k and completely overhaul the rules, but something like this, to me, would make absolutely perfect sense and be such a good 'fit' for everyone involved. And most importantly the players.

Could you provide a link to said podcast please?

As for the rest, licensing is a fickle beast, and i don't think that GW is willing to buy whole system that they ultimately don't hold all the rights to. They've been burned by licensing going awry in the past, and now it just isn't something they engage in.

Systems outside of D6 and combinations thereof also run counter to their core principles, and piling special rules on top of each other is pretty much their current design philosophy. An elegant system that relies on profiles and player skill to differentiate between armies and units is not what they want, it's not 'flashy' enough and does not lend itself to 'cinematic' moments in the way they prefer.

Yes sure here is the link on Apple, but you can search for the same on any Podcast snatcher and should be able to find it
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/imperious-dominatus-part-1/id1546878195?i=1000517275141

Yes I agree they probably won't do it. When we are sat here looking at some bastard system of Armageddon and Epic 40k with all of the tactical elements removed (so they can be included in future supplements) we will be wishing that they had got someone else involved. But they probably won't.

 Pacific wrote:
Yes sure here is the link on Apple, but you can search for the same on any Podcast snatcher and should be able to find it
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/imperious-dominatus-part-1/id1546878195?i=1000517275141

Yes I agree they probably won't do it. When we are sat here looking at some bastard system of Armageddon and Epic 40k with all of the tactical elements removed (so they can be included in future supplements) we will be wishing that they had got someone else involved. But they probably won't.

Thanks for that, i'll have a look where i can get it.

Pardon the Necro, but there are news about a potential re-release of Epic; rumourmonger Chaptermaster Valrak now claims that Epic 30k will come at the end of the year, and may possibly be announced or at least teased as early as next week at Adepticon. So far, rumours that he attributes to 'sources he trusts' have been highly accurate.

I may quote myself from the 10th edition rumour roundup thread:

Edit 03/15/2023

New Video with stuff, mostly predicting what will be revealed at Adepticon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFPkUt7_MXY

- The next big Kill Team box will be Votann vs. Beastmen according to sources he trusts
- 'So much more stuff' is coming for KT, Eldar, Space Marines etc.
- Campaign book 'Cthonia' coming for HH, campaign involving Sons of Horus and Imperial Fists
- Tank commander models for the legions
- Forge World Knights going plastic according to sources he trusts
- 'Maybe' hints at Epic as Horus Heresy Epic
- Epic coming at the end of the year according to sources he highly trusts
- Adeptus Titanicus titans and Aeronautica planes are going to be wrapped into Epic
- Age of Sigmar: Cities of Sigmar are getting a box set reveal
- Blablabla the Lion is coming reiterated for the n-th time
- Dante speculated to be revealed at Adepticon
- More boarding patrols: Agents of the Imperium, Nurgle
- Maybe a trailer for the CGI trailer for 10th edition

Do we know if this person is genuinely accurate with their rumour-mongering?

There is an element to this rumour that it makes so much sense that, if you keep on predicating it, one of these days it is going to be right.

The main question now is which ruleset GW will use to replicate, or even if they will replicate one at all. Unlike many of the other specialist games which have been resurrected, they have a choice of systems, some of which play very differently.

I would like it to be some variation of Epic Space Marine (NetEpic) but I feel like the most likely variation would be Armageddon using a Heresy-era setting, to line it up with Titanicus. There are some really good fan community rules which have been made, and they could shamelessless steal them without crediting the authors.

I saw Duncan Rhodes recently did a video of painting Epic, certainly some coincidental timing. I know he isn't in GW any more, but you don't know if he might have got wind of something coming from friends who still are and be getting a jump on it? Will have to check what he was painting as that might give a clue.