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creeping-deth87 wrote: I mean this is the same person who jumped off a ship in the middle of the sea so she could swim back to middle earth so maybe it's in character?
I keep seeing people say this. “It’s so dumb that they have her think she’s going to swim back!” Yeah, that is obviously dumb. So your next thought should probably be “that can’t be what the scene is actually about then.”
Because it OBVIOUSLY isn’t! Galadriel is on the doorstep of elven Heaven. She is not choosing between going to Middle-earth and Valinor as if these are merely places. She’s choosing between the afterlife and death. At this moment, she would rather drown in the ocean than go to literal Heaven. This is rife with irony on purpose because it’s interesting — Galadriel is caught in an ambiguous place between Good and Evil. Rejecting Heaven is prideful to the point of blasphemy; is her obsession with vengeance twisting her and corrupting her, as Gil-Galad and Elrond fear? Then again, there is dramatic irony because we the audience know she is literally correct: Sauron is coming back to plunge the world into darkness. Does someone who simply abandons Middle-earth to that terrible fate deserve to go to Heaven? Also, Galadriel has a deeper faith. If the name Ulmo means anything to you, it’s worth thinking over.
creeping-deth87 wrote: My other big problem with this episode was Halbrand. They are way too on the nose with the Aragorn parallel. A reluctant, self doubting hero, from a line of lost kings, to a land in need of a leader? It's too much. It felt ridiculous.
I suspect the parallel is being set up to be subverted in the long-term. He may, with Galadriel’s encouragement, become the King of the Southlands and a heroic figure by the end of this season. But what might happen after? Might he be offered a ring perhaps?
Nevelon wrote: To be fair, idiotically brash is like the key defining feature of the Noldor.
Very true. And let’s also not forget that this show is taking great pains to demonstrate the mechanics of tension and misunderstanding between Elves and Dwarves and Men. For Galadriel and many (most?) Elves, Men come in two categories: (1) ones who served Morgoth and (2) a much, much smaller portion who didn’t BUT quickly (from an elven POV) grew prideful and ripe for corruption. But the show takes a very interesting turn in E3 by depicting her as contemptuous of Numenorean pride and yet developing trust of and even hope in wretched Halbrand, descended from those who swore blood oaths to the Enemy, in the context of discovering that some Numenoreans have held faith with the House of Elros.
Grey Templar wrote: She should have been more than capable of reading the room and knowing that she would need some diplomatic persuasion to get what she wanted.
You suggested that Galadriel should have swallowed her pride and been diplomatic. We already saw that scene in E1 in the court of Gil-Galad where she is contrasted with Elrond the diplomat. And we see her in this scene try the same thing again. She’s even willing to kneel before Ar-Miriel at Halbrand’s suggestion. She then says that Elendil saved them from certain death and states: “All we ask is that Numenor continue his mercy and grant us ship’s passage to Middle-earth.” This is very diplomatic language. Pharazon immediately retorts that “it has been generations” since they have made “such a journey on an Elf’s behalf.” Ummm … did he not just hear her say she is Finarfin’s daughter?? What are a few “generations” of Men compared to the life of Galadriel? Especially when all that is asked is a boat ride? And, as we know (since the writers were competent enough to set it up from E1) Galadriel is no diplomat and this Man’s presumptuousness irritates her. “It is because of Elves that you were given this island. Surely you can spare a few planks and rudder.” Oh boy, now Miriel feels the need to argue that they earned what they have, and both Galadriel and Miriel cannot help themselves from getting into it. It becomes clear that the two are speaking from completely different perspectives and this is going nowhere good. At that point, Halbrand intervenes. This is crucial. The show is about misunderstandings between the races of Middle-earth; in this example, a Man steps in to mediate communication between Elves and Men.
Reading this scene as Galadriel being dumb totally misses that Elves are not just extra-wise human beings. They are beholden to their own point of view and cannot easily imagine that of another race of people, who experience time in a completely different way. Even Elrond the diplomat cannot initially understand Durin’s resentment. Difference in perspective is not a trivial problem in TRoP, to be overcome by a modicum of patience. It is the central problem of the whole narrative.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/09/10 05:39:33
No, it very obviously is, because she instantly goes into her Olympic swimmer routine on the way back to Middle Earth. The scene could have been played they way you try to frame it, had we seen her simply give up and drift. That's very much not the case.
Let the writers take responsibility for the nonsense they put out.
No, I’m not saying she is trying to commit suicide. I am saying that she would rather risk death with “risk” being a massive understatement.
Maybe you are not too familiar with the legendarium but E3 also sheds light on this with quite a few allusions. When Galadriel and Halbrand are presented to Miriel, Galadriel pointedly says they met by chance on the open sea. Later, speaking to him privately through the bars of his cell (and after learning more about Elendil and the Faithful and Tar-Palantir, not to mention Halbrand himself) she has changed her mind: “Ours was no chance meeting. Not destiny nor fate, nor any of the words Men use to speak of the forces they lack the conviction to name. Ours was the work of something greater.” There is another allusion, too: the Numenoreans have a saying that “the sea is always right.”
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/10 07:27:33
Manchu wrote: No, I’m not saying she is trying to commit suicide. I am saying that she would rather risk death with “risk” being a massive understatement.
So she still thinks she has a chance? No, not buying it. You need a lot more setup and character work for that kind of last stand moment to work without any backing dialogue.
Manchu wrote: “Ours was no chance meeting. Not destiny nor fate, nor any of the words Men use to speak of the forces they lack the conviction to name. Ours was the work of something greater.”
I haven't seen the episode. Is this supposed to be an allusion to Ulmo's intervention? Other than not actually hinting at it in the moment (the Valar were fairly direct with their interventions), it's a decent idea. I kinda like it.
Still doesn't change my thoughts on Galadriel's actions.
Why not? Elves are not humans. If you can live to be 10,000 years old and see entire ages of the world pass then what's a decade, or even a century of swimming? It would certainly be an extreme feat and choosing to reject heaven in favor of hoping to make it back to land is an act of desperation but it's not completely out of the question IMO that an immortal superhuman could achieve such a feat of legend. And it can't be that far to go because she immediately runs into shipwreck survivors and primitive sailing ships aren't generally in the habit of sailing off thousands of miles into the open ocean.
Do we even have a canon distance for the trip between the shores of the elven kingdom and the gateway to heaven? Is it even a physical journey, or is it more of a symbolic thing where heading out to sea with the intent to leave Middle Earth very quickly opens the gate for the ship to pass through? It's clearly presented in RoP as a symbolic thing, as the ship starts to pass into heaven despite having nothing but open ocean in front of it.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/09/10 08:41:04
Yeah, for content that’s supposedly hostile to tradition it’s pretty shocking how Galadriel’s line there comes across as a stark rebuke of agnostic prevarication.
Other than Melkor, Ulmo is the only Vala to have much to do with Middle-earth.
And thus it was by the power of Ulmo that even under the darkness of Melkor life coursed still through many secret lodes, and the Earth did not die; and to all who were lost in that darkness or wandered far from the light of the Valar the ear of Ulmo was ever open; nor has he ever forsaken Middle-earth, and whatsoever may since have befallen of ruin or of change he has not ceased to take thought for it, and will not until the end of days.
Is it not the basis of any saga to complete epic feats beyond the normal human reason? Some ludicrous swimming attempt is part of numerous old Norse sagas. It's pretty on the mark for something Tolkein really.
I mean you can't be arguing it's not Tolkein on one hand and dismiss things like that which are evocative of the very premise of Tolkein's work.
Look upon these early episodes as the Saga of Galadriel. How her early days as a hard nosed, icy fighter ready her for a life as a strong ruler.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/10 08:53:17
You make some great points Manchu and caused me to rethink my take on some of those scenes now. Thanks for that.
Mrs. GG did not like seeing Galadriel making such obvious diplomatic mistakes with the Queen but I saw it as Manchu has articulated. I felt like they were showing that kind of almost instant dislike two people can have for each other.
And Galadriel‘s behavior was on par with the behavior I have seen some criminals display in the face of overwhelming circumstances on arrest or once they hit custody. It can fly in the face of logic to both the officers and the solicitors present. As if the person seems unable to comprehend the reality of the situation… but I think it can also be a case of “who dares, wins” bravado.
Again in the real world, I have seen bluffs using that kind of behavior work, such as the time I was alone and I bluffed my way out of a tactically unwinnable situation in a flat full of violent criminals threatening me when I responded to a noise complaint. I was a touch more diplomatic but then I had to serve as my own Halbarad so to speak. But there was about as much chance of me fighting my way out of that situation as Galadriel had… but both of us would also have been just as lost if we allowed ourselves to look like weak victims that could be quietly disposed of. Even the comment by the bearded advisor (I forget his name) reminded me of some of he jests made by some of those criminals that night as I negotiated directly with their nominal leader, a well known drug dealer in the area. Of course my situation was a bit different in that I knew my audience better than Galadriel knew hers but the scene did not break my suspension of disbelief. And the later dialogue of Elendil at the docks matched my thoughts on it as well. It was easy for me to identify with and empathize with these characters.
I have not seen the new GoT series so I can not compare but yes at times the dialogue is a bit off but other times it works quite well and so far I am not hearing any very obviously contemporary slang, the kind of thing that often pulls me out of my immersion.
As for the Numenorean sailor breastplates, yes I suppose they could be a form of brigandine but they did not look like it to me. Too thin and too flexible looking for that. They also did not look like they generally fit properly either, a common flaw seen in costuming extras.
Edit: Olthannon your point about epic swimming being on point sagas Tolkien looked to is in my opinion… on point. Great way to help me better frame that scene in my mind.
And so far the best still I can find showing the sailors's armor that I am talking about. I understand why they may not want the basic armor to look as fancy as Elendil's and in the still they look better than I remember but again I think it may how they moved in those breasplates having myself worn a number of different types of armor both historical and contemporary. Nor does the armor look “lived in” enough for veterans.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2022/09/10 09:16:43
Why not? Elves are not humans. If you can live to be 10,000 years old and see entire ages of the world pass then what's a decade, or even a century of swimming? It would certainly be an extreme feat and choosing to reject heaven in favor of hoping to make it back to land is an act of desperation but it's not completely out of the question IMO that an immortal superhuman could achieve such a feat of legend. And it can't be that far to go because she immediately runs into shipwreck survivors and primitive sailing ships aren't generally in the habit of sailing off thousands of miles into the open ocean.
Do we even have a canon distance for the trip between the shores of the elven kingdom and the gateway to heaven? Is it even a physical journey, or is it more of a symbolic thing where heading out to sea with the intent to leave Middle Earth very quickly opens the gate for the ship to pass through? It's clearly presented in RoP as a symbolic thing, as the ship starts to pass into heaven despite having nothing but open ocean in front of it.
I have no idea the distances involved, but it is/was just a physical place you can sail to. Humans actually invade the place at one point, or are set to do so, and god is like “Yeah, no, we’ll not be allowing that” and bends the previously flat world into a globe so they can’t reach it, except for Elves for whom the world is still flat, which is why they can see so far.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/10 11:43:34
At this point in time of the story Valinor is still a place that anyone can sail/swim to. Not until the fall of Numenor does that change. There is also an island full of elves who live within sight of it’s shores who she might have been able to get help from, although that would take a lot more diplomacy then she’s shown. Last time she was there was for the kinslaying.
It did bother me a little that she was so undiplomatic. She should know how to behave in court better then that, despite her blood. But Some of the arguments made here make sense. A slight character assassination to help lay the groundwork for the themes of the show.
When all of the gods left the elves to there own devices in the first age, the god of the seas and waters was one of the few who still helped out. There is a running theme where there is life and safety in water. It would make sense, that both the elves, and the numanorians (who’s roots are in the first age and an island living people) would put a lot of faith in the happening of the sea.
just watched the second episode. I agree the scene between elrond and durin works quite well, a stark reminder of the difference in mindset between them. I also really liked the dwarven hold, it felt good to see it in its prime.
personally,i WAS leaning on the stranger being one of the wizards, but according to the wiki, the Wizards are not sent to middle earth until around 1000 years into the Third Age, which is clearly a LONG way into the future....which kinda means it has to be Annatar, the fair guise of Sauron, doesnt it?
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
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Depends where in the timeline we are. He could be teaching elves to smith, prisoner in Numanor, or out and about. The stranger shouldn’t be one of the istari, but who knows.
I was leaning towards proto-Gandalf at first, but there's too many instances that are either double-edged or outright negative for that really to fit now.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
loaded up amazon prime to watch ep 3, and came across a splash page which had the following image of Elendil, in that tan-coloured armour....
i dont know, is seems to be leather, but im not 100% sure either.
the stuff the crew seem to be wearing is either metal (maybe a copper/bronze type, to better deal with the effects of seawater?), or very heavily lacquered leather (its almost plastic level shiney in the opening shots of the deck)
edit:
just realised that the "southlands" the wood elf guy and his girlfriend are in are Mordor, or at least the area known in the third age as Mordor......
edit 2: ....which the episode makes perfectly clear later on. dammit. I quite like the hobbit festival, it has strong european "folk" harvest festival feels.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/09/10 18:36:43
To be a man in such times is to be one amongst untold billions. It is to live in the cruelest and most bloody regime imaginable. These are the tales of those times. Forget the power of technology and science, for so much has been forgotten, never to be relearned. Forget the promise of progress and understanding, for in the grim dark future there is only war. There is no peace amongst the stars, only an eternity of carnage and slaughter, and the laughter of thirsting gods.
Coven of XVth 2000pts
The Blades of Ruin 2,000pts Watch Company Rho 1650pts
Nevelon wrote: Depends where in the timeline we are. He could be teaching elves to smith, prisoner in Numanor, or out and about. The stranger shouldn’t be one of the istari, but who knows.
I figured Sauron or another major spirit having been thrown out of "heaven" but they are definately trying to make him act like gandalf - but on the other hand the glowflies died and it appeared to be connected to his rune scrawling that the Hobbit guy had his leg injured.
However I am not big on LOR lore. IIRC Sauron, the Balrogs and Ungolient (?) are Maia but not sure if any others fell?
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"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
I didn’t quite follow the bit in Ep.3 with Elendil and Isildur; they were talking about Anarion, but it almost seemed like he was dead or missing? Can anyone clarify for please?!
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Jadenim wrote: I didn’t quite follow the bit in Ep.3 with Elendil and Isildur; they were talking about Anarion, but it almost seemed like he was dead or missing? Can anyone clarify for please?!
Quick scan of the Silmarillion shows no details of him prior to the fall on Numenor. Whatever they are doing on the show is their making, or pulled from another source.
Jadenim wrote: I didn’t quite follow the bit in Ep.3 with Elendil and Isildur; they were talking about Anarion, but it almost seemed like he was dead or missing? Can anyone clarify for please?!
He's not in the show yet, but they wanted to acknowledge he exists, is how I read that scene.
I have hopes that meteor man is one of the blue istari.
Numenor looks great, some costuming choices (Tar-miriel, who they are not properly naming) and elendil 's first armor look. The later surcoat looks excellent.
It was pointed out earlier that someone had not seen HoTD to compare. I would like to note HBO has the first episode available for free on their YouTube channel.
They are apparently quite confident with it, and id say against RoP it wins.
The first episode is really great in capturing how a prequel story should be introduced.
Nevelon wrote: Depends where in the timeline we are. He could be teaching elves to smith, prisoner in Numanor, or out and about. The stranger shouldn’t be one of the istari, but who knows.
I figured Sauron or another major spirit having been thrown out of "heaven" but they are definately trying to make him act like gandalf - but on the other hand the glowflies died and it appeared to be connected to his rune scrawling that the Hobbit guy had his leg injured.
However I am not big on LOR lore. IIRC Sauron, the Balrogs and Ungolient (?) are Maia but not sure if any others fell?
I really don't think he's Sauron, unless we're just being majorly gaslighted and the story is just going to have no internal logic at all. It really wouldn't make sense for Sauron to be getting cast down now of all times. Since he's clearly been doing stuff in middle earth all this time, so how would have gotten anywhere to get thrown to earth as a meteor?
I think they're just making the stranger seem mysterious and spooky and give enough doubt as to his identity. I'm sure Adar will surely be Sauron in the next episode.
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Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
I'm beginning to think that Sauron was hidden by being in more than one place. We have a fallen king of the Southlands who is the "best blacksmith", a "father" of orcs and a seemingly "empty" heavenly spirit.
Sauron's sigil is a map, and there's a star map - at least two of the characters are searching for something.
Probably wrong, but the orc fused with the rock in ep 1 makes me think that Sauron was experimenting with binding things together...
As for Galadriel, she remains prideful in exile and disdainful of forgiveness until she passes the test with the One Ring late in the Third Age. In RoP, she is still closer to the princess of the Undying Lands who refused to give Feanor a lock of her hair.
Nevelon wrote: Depends where in the timeline we are. He could be teaching elves to smith, prisoner in Numanor, or out and about. The stranger shouldn’t be one of the istari, but who knows.
I figured Sauron or another major spirit having been thrown out of "heaven" but they are definately trying to make him act like gandalf - but on the other hand the glowflies died and it appeared to be connected to his rune scrawling that the Hobbit guy had his leg injured.
However I am not big on LOR lore. IIRC Sauron, the Balrogs and Ungolient (?) are Maia but not sure if any others fell?
I really don't think he's Sauron, unless we're just being majorly gaslighted and the story is just going to have no internal logic at all. It really wouldn't make sense for Sauron to be getting cast down now of all times. Since he's clearly been doing stuff in middle earth all this time, so how would have gotten anywhere to get thrown to earth as a meteor?
I think they're just making the stranger seem mysterious and spooky and give enough doubt as to his identity. I'm sure Adar will surely be Sauron in the next episode.
There's always the possibility that they're "doing a Westworld" and showing us two stories from two different time periods, so everything with the Harfoots is/has happening/ed before Gladys's story.
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
Nevelon wrote: Depends where in the timeline we are. He could be teaching elves to smith, prisoner in Numanor, or out and about. The stranger shouldn’t be one of the istari, but who knows.
I figured Sauron or another major spirit having been thrown out of "heaven" but they are definately trying to make him act like gandalf - but on the other hand the glowflies died and it appeared to be connected to his rune scrawling that the Hobbit guy had his leg injured.
However I am not big on LOR lore. IIRC Sauron, the Balrogs and Ungolient (?) are Maia but not sure if any others fell?
I really don't think he's Sauron, unless we're just being majorly gaslighted and the story is just going to have no internal logic at all. It really wouldn't make sense for Sauron to be getting cast down now of all times. Since he's clearly been doing stuff in middle earth all this time, so how would have gotten anywhere to get thrown to earth as a meteor?
I think they're just making the stranger seem mysterious and spooky and give enough doubt as to his identity. I'm sure Adar will surely be Sauron in the next episode.
There's always the possibility that they're "doing a Westworld" and showing us two stories from two different time periods, so everything with the Harfoots is/has happening/ed before Gladys's story.
IIRC Elrond and the Elf King saw the meteor fall at the same time he was watching Gladarial sail away so thats not going to work?
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Inquisitor Amberley Vail, Ordo Xenos
"I will admit that some Primachs like Russ or Horus could have a chance against an unarmed 12 year old novice but, a full Battle Sister??!! One to one? In close combat? Perhaps three Primarchs fighting together... but just one Primarch?" da001
She was bobbing about for a long time before she got picked up?
We find comfort among those who agree with us - growth among those who don't. - Frank Howard Clark
The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not; he knows all things but his own ignorance.
The correct statement of individual rights is that everyone has the right to an opinion, but crucially, that opinion can be roundly ignored and even made fun of, particularly if it is demonstrably nonsense!” Professor Brian Cox
@manchu: Neither Ulmo nor Osse were implied in any of this while or before it happened. Galadriel's reference to higher powers only happened after the terribly convenient connection between Halbrand and the Mcguffin in the numenorean archives had been established. It was never part of her decision to leap from the boat. That she did for the reasons you explained quite beautifully, but she could have just refused to leave in the first place given her seemingly unrelenting conviction. I'm convinced that scene happened for other reasons, namely to show what the passage to valinor might look like and to contrive a chance meeting with Halbrand. Both a valid reasons within the context of a TV show, but let's not ascribe depth to where there is none.
The problem is that all the dialogue setting it up comes from the first scene of the episode (all that metaphorical talk about floating and sinking and the deep and the stars and light and darkness), which was unfortunately incomprehensible because of the terrible writing.
I really like this show but the first 20 minutes of E1 and especially the first 5-10 minutes are very badly written, and so subsequent scenes have inadequate framing. The scene with Galadriel jumping from the ship is the worst casualty.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/11 04:34:21
I’m on the fence, but leaning on enjoying this show.
Galadriel’s wooden actress still makes me tune out, but she’s instrumental in introducing some intriguing characters.
Arondir’s story has been my favorite part so far. The actor who played Benjen Stark is Adar, so I’m really curious to see who/what he is. The casting call for the part of Adar :
A villain who can also evoke a deep sense of pathos and wounded / fallen nobility. Must possess a certain degree of physicality. Should seem middle-aged, though must also project a sense of timelessness.
Fallen or tortured elf in the thrall of Sauron?
Harfoots still do nothing for me, but the mystery of Meteor Man still keeps me paying attention to them.
I think this 3rd episode had more blood then the entire OG trilogy. Truly didn’t expect it.
Edit: Off-topic but semi-related :New trailer for Willow D+ series was recently released. What a time for fans of fantasy!
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/09/11 05:59:24
"Sometimes the only victory possible is to keep your opponent from winning." - The Emperor, from The Outcast Dead.
"Tell your gods we are coming for them, and that their realms will burn as ours did." -Thostos Bladestorm
Momotaro wrote: I'm beginning to think that Sauron was hidden by being in more than one place. We have a fallen king of the Southlands who is the "best blacksmith", a "father" of orcs and a seemingly "empty" heavenly spirit.
Sauron's sigil is a map, and there's a star map - at least two of the characters are searching for something.
Probably wrong, but the orc fused with the rock in ep 1 makes me think that Sauron was experimenting with binding things together...
You might be on to something there; Sauron accidentally breaking himself into fragments during his binding experiments would be a good explanation as to why he disappeared and could give them a nice dramatic moment (probably end of the season) of the fragments reuniting. It would also make sense from a lore point of view, because Sauron is an Istari IIRC, so wasn’t originally evil; he got corrupted/seduced by Morgoth. So Adar could be the evil half and Meteor Man is his original innocence.
Note that they didn’t show Adar’s face in ep.3, what are the odds on it being the same actor?
On a similar vein, I’m curious as to why they didn’t show the Numenorean king, even when the Regent was talking to him?
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Thats... no. No splitting of Sauron into fragments. That is kinda dumb and we've never had anything of the sort in the Legendarium.
He can take spirit form and travel quickly, but actually going full on multiple bodies and personalities is too far.
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Jadenim wrote: It would also make sense from a lore point of view, because Sauron is an Istari IIRC, so wasn’t originally evil; he got corrupted/seduced by Morgoth.
Not quite, Sauron is a Maiar. One of the lesser spirits of the Ainur. The Istari were the 5 Maiar spirits sent to Midde Earth by the Valar to counter the threat of Sauron, they would be known as Sarumon, Gandalf, Radagast, and the 2 Blue Wizards.
Sauron wasn't originally evil you are correct. And his evil was very different from Morgoths. He was originally a follower of Aule, so he was a peerless crafter. Obsessed with order and beauty, and this led to a desire for control. Sauron's evil is one of domination and control. Morgoth's was an evil of total destruction and corruption to no purpose out of spite for the inability to create his own vision of the world.
On a similar vein, I’m curious as to why they didn’t show the Numenorean king, even when the Regent was talking to him?
Just some end of the episode tension I think. I doubt there is a major plot reason for hiding his face for one episode. If they wait for a couple more, then maybe they're doing something weird.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/09/12 02:04:00
Self-proclaimed evil Cat-person. Dues Ex Felines
Cato Sicarius, after force feeding Captain Ventris a copy of the Codex Astartes for having the audacity to play Deathwatch, chokes to death on his own D-baggery after finding Calgar assembling his new Eldar army.
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