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Monkeysloth wrote: Well all the poses are unique outside of 2 that looked to be axis mirrored. Still, that's pretty good..
No, the squads all have duplicated models. Some are disguised better than others by having the models oriented differently in the pic, but it's particularly obvious in the top left Cawdor unit.
These are nice enough overall, but it's all looking a bit high-tech. Also disappointing that, if those starters are anything to go by, it's still very much WarSquad rather than getting back to the Warmachine roots.
I just wish that they would have admitted how many of the MkI/MkII/MkIII 'jacks and units were basically the same things with different weapon options (or equipment options) and done the "squeeze".
Or maybe I'm misunderstanding something and they will actually do the sensible thing and convert the old legacy models to 'base + weapon option, but you've got a unique model for each, instead of swappable pieces'.
solkan wrote: I just wish that they would have admitted how many of the MkI/MkII/MkIII 'jacks and units were basically the same things with different weapon options (or equipment options) and done the "squeeze".
Or maybe I'm misunderstanding something and they will actually do the sensible thing and convert the old legacy models to 'base + weapon option, but you've got a unique model for each, instead of swappable pieces'.
That always confused me when people complained about not having 'options' in Warmachine. There were options, just each option had a unique unit profile.
But yes, it sounds like they're essentially consolidating the jacks of each type and giving them a range of options, rather than having jack fixed to specific weapons. Although going by the comments about compatibility, it's likely at least some of those options will be new.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/02 03:28:36
Well those pics of starters didn't exactly warm my heart. Duplication of mono poses is bad enough with gw with 5/10 poses that get duplicated but leader, 2 poses duplicated and banner that's duplicated among squads?
And seeing it would have been easy fix with 3d printing...
An easy fix, yes. But also something else they have to pay for... 6 unique sculpts are more expensive than 4, even if they do just require some reposing (which is rarely as simple as 'just' reposing).
Duplicating unit fillers and sticking with a single jack frame per class means less sculpting cost. And keep in mind this isn't just a single unit release... they're relaunching an entire product range. If they're on a tight budget (which seems a fair assumption) they're going to be looking for every opportunity to save a few dollars.
That's not to say you shouldn't dislike it... Aesthetically it's not ideal. But it's not at all surprising.
I mean, for the most part they're not terrible compared to some of the cast resin models I've had from various companies. And the pieces that are good look perfect, with very little cleanup required. Hopefully they're still finetuning the process for more consistency...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/02 05:47:31
WARMACHINE – Cygnar Storm Legion Core Army Starter
PIP 21000 MSRP: $199.99
Includes:
1 Captain Athena di Baro Warcaster
1 Courser Light Warjack
(4x Head 8x Arm/Weapon options)
1 Stryker Heavy Warjack
(4x Head 8x Arm/Weapon options)
1 Stormblade Legionnaires Unit (5 models)
1 Stormguard Legionnaires Unit (5 models)
2 Legionnaire Standard Bearer
1 Tempest Thunderers Unit (3 models)
1 Arcane Mechaniks Unit (3 models)
1 Legionnaire Officer Solo
30 Magnets
Includes:
1 Kishtaar, the Howling Silence Warcaster
1 Jackal Light Warjack
(4x Head 8x Arm/Weapon options)
1 Tyrant Heavy Warjack
(4x Head 8x Arm/Weapon options)
1 Assault Reavers Unit (5 models)
1 Strike Reavers Unit (5 models)
2 Reaver Standard Bearer
1 Ulkor Barrager Unit (3 models)
1 Warwitch Coven Unit (3 models)
1 Orgoth Commander Solo
30 Magnets
Those being the starter forces are disappointing. Are they trying to appeal to the GW crowd with the armies that most look like marines / stormcast versus Chaos? The Orgoth really don't look much like their old art from Iron Kingdoms: viking-Roman mashups with armour decorations of leering faces.
Guess I just really wanted more of that old school 'Full Metal Fantasy' look, and these guys all look a bit too sleek for me.
Shakalooloo wrote: Those being the starter forces are disappointing. Are they trying to appeal to the GW crowd with the armies that most look like marines / stormcast versus Chaos? The Orgoth really don't look much like their old art from Iron Kingdoms: viking-Roman mashups with armour decorations of leering faces.
Guess I just really wanted more of that old school 'Full Metal Fantasy' look, and these guys all look a bit too sleek for me.
Definitely not just you. My literal response was "They just look so bland." Maybe it's the renders instead of seeing painted minis(?), but they all look the same for both armies, and totally uninspiring.
I wonder if a contributing factor is how much of the 3D printing world is intended as proxies for some existing franchise. I see these images and think "Weird, they look like knockoff Cygnar models." I don't mean that as a dig on the sculpts, either. They just genuinely don't look "official" to me in those images.
Valander wrote: Yeah, duplicate models for 6 man units is really, really lazy if you're doing 3d print production. I get it when making resin casts, since you're then able to reduce the number of molds needed, but really, even a small tweak in Zbrush (or whatever their sculptors use) to get a little variance is easy, and I honestly can't see why you wouldn't do that.
Unexpected. And yes, really lazy. I don't think that's acceptable for 3d printed miniatures.
WARMACHINE – Cygnar Storm Legion Core Army Starter
PIP 21000 MSRP: $199.99
Includes:
1 Captain Athena di Baro Warcaster
1 Courser Light Warjack
(4x Head 8x Arm/Weapon options)
1 Stryker Heavy Warjack
(4x Head 8x Arm/Weapon options)
1 Stormblade Legionnaires Unit (5 models)
1 Stormguard Legionnaires Unit (5 models)
2 Legionnaire Standard Bearer
1 Tempest Thunderers Unit (3 models)
1 Arcane Mechaniks Unit (3 models)
1 Legionnaire Officer Solo
30 Magnets
Includes:
1 Kishtaar, the Howling Silence Warcaster
1 Jackal Light Warjack
(4x Head 8x Arm/Weapon options)
1 Tyrant Heavy Warjack
(4x Head 8x Arm/Weapon options)
1 Assault Reavers Unit (5 models)
1 Strike Reavers Unit (5 models)
2 Reaver Standard Bearer
1 Ulkor Barrager Unit (3 models)
1 Warwitch Coven Unit (3 models)
1 Orgoth Commander Solo
30 Magnets
...wow. There's not only duplicated poses in the same unit, the different units also share the same poses. It seems they have used the same armatures for all sculpts, just changing around gubbins.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/02 07:16:18
insaniak wrote: I mean, for the most part they're not terrible compared to some of the cast resin models I've had from various companies. And the pieces that are good look perfect, with very little cleanup required. Hopefully they're still finetuning the process for more consistency...
Hm... ome of the parts have really egregious layer lines, though (much bigger than anything I've ever gotten in my dinky machines, particularly that shows on unprimed parts), and IMHO the parts look like they haven¡t really been properly cleaned before curing: there's too many shiny and whited out parts for that.
It looks kinda shoddy, or I'm a bit of a perfectionist when doing it myself, dunno.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Shakalooloo wrote: Those being the starter forces are disappointing. Are they trying to appeal to the GW crowd with the armies that most look like marines / stormcast versus Chaos? The Orgoth really don't look much like their old art from Iron Kingdoms: viking-Roman mashups with armour decorations of leering faces.
Guess I just really wanted more of that old school 'Full Metal Fantasy' look, and these guys all look a bit too sleek for me.
Yeah, there's that too... these look nothing like what I liked from IK back in the day (magic/steampunk industrial revolution). For example, these cygnars, which were the first faction I ever collected, look mostly like generic scifi armored clad dudes with added tesla coils (which, incidentally... what's with Cygnar and tesla coil flanderization, FFS).
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/02 07:26:47
If you mean the jack fist arm, that's an orientation issue, I believe. Should be fixable by rotating the part slightly... But yeah, not something that you want to be sending out as a promotional piece.
On both units using the same bodies, that one is no different to GW putting multiple arms in a kit to make different units.
insaniak wrote: If you mean the jack fist arm, that's an orientation issue, I believe. Should be fixable by rotating the part slightly... But yeah, not something that you want to be sending out as a promotional piece.
On both units using the same bodies, that one is no different to GW putting multiple arms in a kit to make different units.
It is that, among other things (probably a compunded issue of orientation, AA/grey levels, layer times and light off delays)... but the problem is, one would expect the people that's orienting and supporting the parts should already know this, and even if they dont, something like that should not be sent as promotional material once you've test printed it and seen it's not good enough.
I don't expect they just sent the test prints they were doing... and if they did, well, then they will be judged by them.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/02 07:39:05
I'm looking at some of the parts and the support marks and nubs are rather extreme! You can 100% do better, especially if you've got design and production under one team and you are the only ones producing. Heck even presupported models for consumers, don well, can be better than some of those marks.
One thought on repeat models is that perhaps the 3D print manufacture is a plan they hope to use in the medium term not the full long term. So they design models that can be cast in the future. This leaves them the option to expand into casting in the future if sales improve; if the supply of metal improves; if the global trade improves etc.... Ergo they make the models work for them in both cast and 3D print formats so that they've got options open in the future instead of having to re-design to go back to cast models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/08/02 08:10:03
I sure hope they keep 3d printing as a manufacturing method and just keep improving their technique. It has its limitations, but compared to resin or metal casting and injection moulding it has several advantages, chief one being that you don't have the issue of undercuts limiting sculpting. There are some torturous solutions for 2-mould models to get around that issue...
You can also sometimes print whole models (although that in itself creates limitations) for easier assembly.
And eventually, I can't see miniatures games not moving to licenced prints. Although it is way off now as stls are so freely shared. WIth their models already being designed to be production printed they will have an easier time transitioning.
When it comes to the pictures of models with issues, we have also seen models with few if any issues and PPS_Loren has stated that models with such problems would be replaced through their replacement service.
I’d argue that STLs are so freely shared is the biggest argument against going commercial for larger companies.
Is there a way round it? Not a bloody clue as I know basically bugger all about 3D printing and that. But as ever I’m a fan of pushing back my ignorance on pretty much any subject.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
Depend on printing people to pay. Not much else. Make it cheap enough people will pay it. How feasible that is to keep company sized pp float. Need steady flow of stl's to sell
Thing is, cheap enough is never going to be cheaper than free.
Consider my RPG gubbins, bought from DriveThruRPG.
I bought the big special bundle for Vampire 25th Anniversary. Gorgeous big printed book (ease of reference, personal preference) and a PDF of the same. Yes that PDF has been shared with my Players.
I don’t feel bad or naughty doing that, as VTM is, at the moment, pretty much a dead property not sold to the mass market. Same with Demon The Fallen (which I’m about to buy). I’ll have my copy for my shelf, and my players will, naturally, have access to the PDF copies.
Now, make those necessary for playing an active property? Why wouldn’t people freely share those files? Or even agree “I’ll buy STL 1-10, you buy 11-20 and Dave (there is always a Dave) will buy 21-30, and we’ll just print for each other.
3D printing is promising as a technology, but I just can’t really see it being mass market, at least not in a way that’s tasteful and worth the investment for a company, be it PP or GW et al.
Fed up of Scalpers? But still want your Exclusives? Why not join us?
insaniak wrote: I mean, Spotify exists, despite the ease with which music can be shared.
And the artists on streaming services all complain about how little they are paid unless they are mega-stars. While I get your point, I think that's the concern a lot of businesses have about similar shifts in their own industry.
There's also the cost of those streaming services. Spotify has a massive library for a low cost per user, so it's economical for their subscribers. Netflix is struggling to keep its library with new streaming services popping up everywhere, and so a lot of people are returning to pirating shows and films.
insaniak wrote: Yeah, I don't think the market will go fully 3d print until there is some sort of DRM for STLs... Or whatever format comes along to replace them.
Dunno, I remember much the same issue back then with music, movies and books, and still...
insaniak wrote: I mean, Spotify exists, despite the ease with which music can be shared.
And the artists on streaming services all complain about how little they are paid unless they are mega-stars. While I get your point, I think that's the concern a lot of businesses have about similar shifts in their own industry.
There's also the cost of those streaming services. Spotify has a massive library for a low cost per user, so it's economical for their subscribers. Netflix is struggling to keep its library with new streaming services popping up everywhere, and so a lot of people are returning to pirating shows and films.
Fair, of course, but it feels like the cat's sort of out of the bag, given how many designers already sell stl files and the number of stl patreons out there.
And yes, netflix et all keep showing that if you make something convenient and affordable people don't bother pirating, and the less convenient and less affordable you make it, the more people end up giving you the finger.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/08/02 10:41:51
Yet people actually do buy legal stuff when it's cheap enough.
Whether they sell enough to sustain company sized PP but music industry for example has been selling digitally music now long time. Yes it gets piracied. You never can get away from that. Newsflash. People piracy physical models as well(heard the term recast?).
