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Did they mentioned specialist games?

BrianDavion wrote:
So on a note other then "complaining about GW" apparently they note somewhere in this report that we're going to get more paints next year

We added a small dedicated factory, just for paint, which operationally went live in May

Painting is a hugely important part of our hobby for the majority of our customers and a key focus for us. Covid lockdowns slowed our paint development plans but next year will mark a step change in the pace at which we will develop the range.

my guess is this will be "contrast wave 3" in that we'll get some new stuff and some "totally not replacements" for things in the range that "just ain't right"

I don't see anything here that's surprising. Remember, a lot of the verbiage they use is to help convince investors to stay invested in their company, so even bad news they'll spin as good news somehow.

In regards to Warhammer+, their statement seems pretty clear: we're not sure if it's going to be profitable yet, and we're not ready to make a decision on whether to invest more or to chop off a decaying branch. By saying less, they're actually saying quite a bit.

Either way, I'm not too concerned. Warhammer+ is a small portion of their overall business and in the long term will mostly help them legally cover their butts from various international IP issues. They're not declaring war on YouTubers at all, mostly they're saying that they want to make sure that delivery of their IP through their own channels is consistent and that infringements are being monitored. Infringements could mean anything, from fan-animated content to someone trying to rip off their material.

The fact that Flash Gitz still has their parody "furry vs black templars" animations still up shows very well that a lot of the reaction to GW's stuff in the past was very much -over-reaction.

drbored wrote:
I don't see anything here that's surprising. Remember, a lot of the verbiage they use is to help convince investors to stay invested in their company, so even bad news they'll spin as good news somehow.

In regards to Warhammer+, their statement seems pretty clear: we're not sure if it's going to be profitable yet, and we're not ready to make a decision on whether to invest more or to chop off a decaying branch. By saying less, they're actually saying quite a bit.

Either way, I'm not too concerned. Warhammer+ is a small portion of their overall business and in the long term will mostly help them legally cover their butts from various international IP issues. They're not declaring war on YouTubers at all, mostly they're saying that they want to make sure that delivery of their IP through their own channels is consistent and that infringements are being monitored. Infringements could mean anything, from fan-animated content to someone trying to rip off their material.

The fact that Flash Gitz still has their parody "furry vs black templars" animations still up shows very well that a lot of the reaction to GW's stuff in the past was very much -over-reaction.

This is probably the best take on it.

My gut feeling is that they are leaning heavily on the money Warhammer plus makes itself to produce animation and batreps instead of investing money the company makes from other divisions into it. Which is a very live or die attitude.

I hope they recognise that W+ does have potential and a little early investment cash is probably worth it to help grow it. Would be nice if they really went all out for year 2.


Also to add to the IP thing, afaik no youtube animator has been DMCA'd so far. The worst I've heard is a request to have a video demonetised, but they were still allowed to keep it up. Their rules have apparently been pretty strict since 2016 when it comes to IP useage, but no one ever looked at the website lol, so there does seem to be a sort of "unofficial rule set, but we reserve the ability to remove something if it feels like someone is taking the piss." Which is what most companies rules are like tbh.

So Warhammer+ is a total bust, but if they try again next year maybe some magic will happen.

Looks like they sell models and models cost a lot of money. So pretty good outlook for the future.

 frankelee wrote:
So Warhammer+ is a total bust, but if they try again next year maybe some magic will happen.

Looks like they sell models and models cost a lot of money. So pretty good outlook for the future.

generally a service like WH+ takes a few years before it starts making a profit.

 frankelee wrote:
So Warhammer+ is a total bust, but if they try again next year maybe some magic will happen.

Looks like they sell models and models cost a lot of money. So pretty good outlook for the future.

If it has zero other source of cash to pay for content then it can only possibly break even. It's a ruthless way to treat a brand new division and a new live streaming service, but I guess it fits with how 92% of GW stores are profitable. Live or die on your own kinda thing.

I don't think it's a good thing if that is actually what they are doing though, most new live streaming platforms will spend huge early to grow and eat the huge loss.

My guess at this being the situation is mostly based on the idea that if GW were dumping the millions of profits they have from other divisions into it then we would be seeing way more content.

So pretty flimsy theory, but eh, who knows. Maybe they were waiting to see if there was any real interest in year one before actually investing any money into it for year two.

 frankelee wrote:
So Warhammer+ is a total bust, but if they try again next year maybe some magic will happen.

Looks like they sell models and models cost a lot of money. So pretty good outlook for the future.

Not sure how you’re coming to that conclusion?

Yeah. It's not been out a year yet, and whilst it's certainly not the serious rival to other streaming services that I'm sure some big wigs at GW thought it might be, it's far too early to call it a total bust.

If they’ve got any sense they’ll recognise that any streaming service lives or dies on the amount of content, and they’re having to create all of theirs from scratch. It will get more attractive as time goes on.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Yeah. It's not been out a year yet, and whilst it's certainly not the serious rival to other streaming services that I'm sure some big wigs at GW thought it might be, it's far too early to call it a total bust.

Also given Netflix has lost subscribers the past 2 quarters I imagine investors are just happy to see numbers growing

 Jadenim wrote:
If they’ve got any sense they’ll recognise that any streaming service lives or dies on the amount of content, and they’re having to create all of theirs from scratch. It will get more attractive as time goes on.

That and its a super niche streaming service.

I think the long term plan is to use it to basically field test their content and once they find things that work really well; invest more heavily into them and then try and land places on other big streaming sites. Use Warhammer+ as a multi-year consumer research program then sink big money into a better animated series that really fits what their target market likes and then go toward Amazon, Netflix and such. Or even use what Warhammer + shows when approaching other big animation groups and potentially selling their IP licence to them.

I see it as a long term strategy which, if it works, will generate a few shows that will make it onto major streaming sites and then they'll do the same thing that Dawn of War and Warhammer Total War do - bring Warhammer to the masses and to different market segments.

Well, it’s not Netflix, is it? ]

Warhammer+ is fundamentally a marketing tool that makes them a bit of cash. At one point, sadly I can’t remember where, GW described it as a Fan Club of sorts. And that..kind of fits.

We get some entertainment, we get access to out of print books (though the platform needs work…), we get an exclusive model or two. We also got some gift vouchers to boot, which whilst kind of a false economy (they never really matched online discounts) could be used to reduce the price of GW Exclusive stuff that doesn’t tend to attract a discount elsewhere.

It’s potentially something they’re happy to take a loss on overall, as it helps to retain customer engagement, and from there further spending arises.

But from this report? Nobody can draw anything like a conclusion, because the statement is entirely neutral. They’ve not said it’s under or over performing. They’ve not mentioned subscriber numbers (but I think they did before, as there’s 50,000 floating in my head, maybe from the half year report), and they’ve not let one what their initial expectation was.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Warhammer+ is fundamentally a marketing tool that makes them a bit of cash.

Given the cost of producing animation, I'd be shocked if it's doing anything other than losing them money.

The reception to W+ seemed overwhelmingly negative until they revealed you get a 'free' model with it and then things returned to their usual battlelines of fanboys and haters. I bet when the World Eater Termie is revealed in a month or two suddenly everyone will be singing it's praises again.

The problems might arise when/if they raise the price of the sub and the models start looking a lot less attractive as a result, although I guess they'll be saving the Primaris Lieutenants until then.

Another year of record high profit, so....price hike inc? 65-70$ for 5 and 10 man infantry?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 frankelee wrote:
So Warhammer+ is a total bust, but if they try again next year maybe some magic will happen.

Looks like they sell models and models cost a lot of money. So pretty good outlook for the future.

Not sure how you’re coming to that conclusion?

I have what some consider a near supernatural ability for seeing the obvious.

No, but I let time adjudicate this sort of thing for me. It's better when people can see what I see for themselves. I'm told when gaming companies start their own streaming services it takes several years before they become profitable, it also takes several years to realize they'll never become profitable.

Yeah, Warhammer+ isn't an online streaming service it's a general Warhammer club. I sure plenty are members just for the app. I'm actually surprised it doesn't come with free shipping for the year on the GW store or a 5% discount or something.

There actually isn't a way for them to report whether or not Warhammer+ has been "successful" at this stage, because a full year hasn't passed since its launch and it runs on an annual subscription model.

However, they only needed 40,000 subscribers to break even, so I doubt very much it has made a loss, but there's simply no way of telling at this point, we will need to wait for the next report.

StraightSilver wrote:
There actually isn't a way for them to report whether or not Warhammer+ has been "successful" at this stage, because a full year hasn't passed since its launch and it runs on an annual subscription model.

However, they only needed 40,000 subscribers to break even, so I doubt very much it has made a loss, but there's simply no way of telling at this point, we will need to wait for the next report.

Where'd that 40k to break even number come from? GW only spends $2.88M/yr on this including production costs, SW development and hosting, promotion, etc.?

To me, it's a bit odd that people are fixating on Warhammer+, especially since if you don't like it, or if you think it's a 'bust', you likely aren't invested into it.

I have it. The Masterclass videos are actually really good. The animations are meh, what you'd expect out of an underfunded indie studio. The batreps are goofy, with the hosts forced to put on big smiles even as they get tabled, and they must always use the full name of every ability, unit, and weapon, which gets excessive.

But for people to be so fixated on it is very strange. Like I said, it's a small portion of their business. They continue to have miniature-making as the core of their business, and they'll always be looking for other ways to expand their IP, which is made clear by their expanded hires into that team.

Eh. I think the comments here regarding WH+ are a lot tamer than when it was unveiled. That was one of the bigger tempests-in-a-teapot in my recent memory. Mostly because WH+ is so absolutely unnecessary to one's gaming or hobbying as you point out.

On Wh+…

I’ve just been rewatching The Exodite.

I’m now wondering if perhaps this is a grand experiment in Proof of Concept?

Not just doing animated stories based on their IP, but in ways which aren’t really pulling punches as such. I mean, other than the glorious swearing in Interrogator, it’s kind of PG-13. The violence isn’t explicit blood and guts. But it’s also not exactly shying away from the brutality.

I’m now wondering if this is GW figuring out and setting out its own stall for parties that might be interested in buying/leasing the right to one of nerddoms richest and underexploited properties.

Going a bit Galaxy Brain I’ll admit. But when GW can point to their own, in-house, self funded, efforts as a standard? It might put off chancers, and prove to the wider media world We Take It Seriously?

I dunno. There’s some kind of sense in this post. Probably. Hopefully you can see what I’m getting at. It’s basically “if you can’t do it better than this, sod off. If you can, giz yup munneh”.

Because movies are the next exploitation of the IP, so a bit of DIY does make sense, even if it doesn’t make back want it cost.

 Gene St. Ealer wrote:

StraightSilver wrote:
There actually isn't a way for them to report whether or not Warhammer+ has been "successful" at this stage, because a full year hasn't passed since its launch and it runs on an annual subscription model.

However, they only needed 40,000 subscribers to break even, so I doubt very much it has made a loss, but there's simply no way of telling at this point, we will need to wait for the next report.

Where'd that 40k to break even number come from? GW only spends $2.88M/yr on this including production costs, SW development and hosting, promotion, etc.?

It's probably a joke on "40K", but either way W+ most likely had more subs than that based on the viewing figures they gave for the first 3 months in the 2021 report, and has most likely only grown since then considering how much its image has improved.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
On Wh+…

I’ve just been rewatching The Exodite.

I’m now wondering if perhaps this is a grand experiment in Proof of Concept?

Not just doing animated stories based on their IP, but in ways which aren’t really pulling punches as such. I mean, other than the glorious swearing in Interrogator, it’s kind of PG-13. The violence isn’t explicit blood and guts. But it’s also not exactly shying away from the brutality.

I’m now wondering if this is GW figuring out and setting out its own stall for parties that might be interested in buying/leasing the right to one of nerddoms richest and underexploited properties.

Going a bit Galaxy Brain I’ll admit. But when GW can point to their own, in-house, self funded, efforts as a standard? It might put off chancers, and prove to the wider media world We Take It Seriously?

I dunno. There’s some kind of sense in this post. Probably. Hopefully you can see what I’m getting at. It’s basically “if you can’t do it better than this, sod off. If you can, giz yup munneh”.

Because movies are the next exploitation of the IP, so a bit of DIY does make sense, even if it doesn’t make back want it cost.

I can imagine GW taking Angels of Death and Hammer and Bolter to Netflix or Amazon and both of them telling GW to go absolutely feth itself lol. They are both not high enough quality, and both are impossible to understand what the feth is happening for a non-40k fan. Both of those shows would never exist without W+, and probably not the Interrogator either, exodite has similar problems. Hell, Astartes makes zero fething sense to a casual and is way too short and hard to expand on because it all hinges on one guys rockstar skills.

It probably also shows GW's determination to keep accurate to 40k when it comes to film and tv. Apparently they really don't like it when licensees make big changes to their IP and are ruthlessly strict about it when it comes to games. I can easily imagine some clueless Hollywood Investors wanting to rip 40k apart to make it more appealing to a casual audience like they did with Halo. GW trying to keep true to 40K makes getting film investment much more difficult.

Chopstick wrote:
Another year of record high profit, so....price hike inc? 65-70$ for 5 and 10 man infantry?

Always another year of price hikes. Just like there will ALWAYS be dividend payments. Dunno about the prices for stuff. I stopped looking a long time ago. Im glad they have a rich background of games to look into.

As for the W+, I can see them trying to shop it around but most studio's would 'want to update it for today's audience' which I don't think GW will let them. So it lives and dies on W+. I loved AoD great show but how could you turn that into 10-15 1/2hr to 1hr episodes without tons of explanation of the background to the normies who would be the target audience. They don't have to sell it to us, we are fans, its the normies they have to sell it to. Like marvel did.

It’s still the most cohesive “this is what it actually looks like” presentation.

It’s set, for instance, a canonical interpretation of how a Warlord Titan would move. Slow and ponderous, yet with a certain brutal grace. Not cumbersome because it’s primitive, but because if it’s sheer size. The laser weapons being a single, coherent beam, rather than a single or multiple blasts/pulses.

It also has Mr Krabs. Any complaints are therefore invalid.

Factually accurate.