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No, He definitely has an insane level of psychic power and a big fiery sword. But as has been said like 3 times now but Hecaton just isn't getting it, one (albeit powerful) man can't take over Terra. The Unification Wars weren't a chill ride for the Emperor's forces and they often faced defeat against powerful states. The first attempt to subjugate the Ethnarcy led to 20,000 Astartes deaths as well as a million other casualties.
All Hecaton is proving is that they don't know jack.

 Mr Nobody wrote:


Have we had a portrayal of the emperor in battle? The only one I can think of is when Horus saves him from an ork. Sure, it was a mega warboss juiced up on a planet's worth of waaugh energy, but still. Maybe the emperor isn't the melee power house everyone thinks he is. Just a little theory floating around in my mind. That would explain the super bodyguards he has.

Considering how the only thing that meant that Horus was a challenge for him was the Emperor's own desire to hold back, I disagree.


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 Gert wrote:
No, He definitely has an insane level of psychic power and a big fiery sword. But as has been said like 3 times now but Hecaton just isn't getting it, one (albeit powerful) man can't take over Terra. The Unification Wars weren't a chill ride for the Emperor's forces and they often faced defeat against powerful states. The first attempt to subjugate the Ethnarcy led to 20,000 Astartes deaths as well as a million other casualties.
All Hecaton is proving is that they don't know jack.

Sure, but the Emperor is like... infinitely tougher than an Astartes. Primarchs are nigh-unkillable via conventional means and the Emperor outmatched all of them.

Sure he'd have military support but it seems weird that he needed super-soldiers when he could just single-handedly kill whatever war machines and soldiers got thrown at him.

BrianDavion wrote:

Andykp wrote:

 Gert wrote:
There were also certain Legions that had extremely adaptable geneseed. The Iron Warriors, World Eaters, Ultramarines, and especially the Blood Angels all had geneseed with very high compatibility rates, with the Blood Angels being able to take recruits from the most radiated and mutated populations of Terra and turn them into semi-angelic beings.
Why spend all the time and effort on making the absolute pinnacle while draining all of your very limited resources when you have forces that can take literal monsters and turn them into Astartes?

Oh and Andykp, that stuff is from the FW series, not BL in case you were wondering.

The whole thing is a mess. They shouldn’t have expanded on it all, it worked so well as a time of myth. Now it’s just a shallow tale all about the empower and the horrible daddy issues they’ve written all over, be it the novels or the black books. Just my opinion but things like this make me more certain than ever.

things like what?

what makes you so certain? because this isn't a complex byzantian issue. it's a pretty clear progression. seriously of all the things to stand up and declare that the Horus Heresy "ruined" the orgins of the Astartes isn't one of them

Didn’t say it ruined the origins of marines. What expanding on the heresy has ruined us that whole era. But that’s just my opinion. Not saying all those that love the novels and books are wrong, I just don’t like it. Knowing so much about what happened then, with the creation of the marines and the conquest of terra makes those pieces of the old mythology worse, because there is no mythology left, just badly written melodrama about an all knowing all powerful emperor and his emo children. I liked when we knew as much as the people on the setting, where depending on who was telling the tale it was completely different, as a ten thousand year old history would be. Custodes were just weird guys with no clothes on and pointy helmets that were mentioned in a book.

So the Imperium, crusade etc, all of it is just the Emperor. It is one man deep. Lucky Guardsman get s a1 in a million shot. All over. Rival chaos god decides to tip the scales at the critical time. All over. Rival warlords born of thousands of years of conflict quite able to deal with powerful pyskers one way or another. All over.

Never mind how many cities can you hold as one man. You need police, administrators, etc. And if the populace fear only 1 man I would see revolt becoming common. Terra's population is in the 10s of billions. Can't be everywhere. Gotta have a system...

Then as has been said post Terra

Why didn’t The Emperor just do it on his own? Why use genhanced Warriors?

Because the Unification Wars were essentially a blooding for the nascent legions. A trial run of sorts, where The Emperor could see his new toys in action and judge their worthiness.

There’s also significant shock and awe required not just to immediately pacify, but ably demonstrate any future resistance is pointless, as He just ROFLstomped the rest of the planet, whilst his foes were at their relative height of military power.

Whilst it’s not specifically mentioned, or even alluded to? It’s entirely possibly there were tweaks, modifications and changes made to the Astartes whilst Unification was under way. Either to the general design, the hypnoindoctrination, equipment etc.

You also have to remember the Warp Storms were still a-blowing during that period. So despite his power, one can easily argue he couldn’t do a Monarchia, because it was less safe to manifest that level of power. And when you’re planning what He was planning, you don’t take unnecessary risks.

Always remember none of His actions were taken rashly. Each had been thought out as part of a wider plan to pacify the entire Galaxy for mankind.

You want to conquer a Galaxy? You kind of have to start small. Get your proof of concept. Change and adjust what needs it. Get you and yours used to the sort of bloodshed and insane destruction necessary to do so.

Does the Machine Cult or the Mechanicus pre-date the Emperor's ascendance? I always thought they came after, like a radical splinter from the Imperial Church...

Hecaton wrote:
Considering how the only thing that meant that Horus was a challenge for him was the Emperor's own desire to hold back, I disagree.

Well, that's just not true at all. It is indeed the case that the Emperor did not use His full power to fight Horus out of a desire to not kill His favoured son, but a God-empowered Horus was absolutely not a cakewalk for the Emperor. Even when He did use His psychic abilities to their peak, it didn't kill the empowered Horus outright rather it weakened him and then the Gods abandoned their pawn. It took another bolt of psychic energy to erase Horus from existence.

Sure, but the Emperor is like... infinitely tougher than an Astartes. Primarchs are nigh-unkillable via conventional means and the Emperor outmatched all of them.

Sure he'd have military support but it seems weird that he needed super-soldiers when he could just single-handedly kill whatever war machines and soldiers got thrown at him.

The Emperor is not strong enough to single-handedly beat a state that caused 20,000 Astartes deaths and 1 million other casualties. He was wounded by a Vortex Weapon on Proxima as well and He can be killed.
But of course, you just keep ignoring the single most important reason for the creation of the Custodes, Thunder Warriors, and Astartes which is time. Given 10,000 years the Emperor might have conquered a chunk of the galaxy but He didn't have that long and needed Terra done in time for the Fall of the Aeldari and the clearing of the Warp.


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FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Does the Machine Cult or the Mechanicus pre-date the Emperor's ascendance? I always thought they came after, like a radical splinter from the Imperial Church...

The Cult Mechanicus was founded in the Age of Strife and was the exception to the rule of secularism within the Emperor's Imperium because as MDG has said, the Emperor needed Mars and whatever colonies Mars founded to be on side to conquer the galaxy.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Does the Machine Cult or the Mechanicus pre-date the Emperor's ascendance? I always thought they came after, like a radical splinter from the Imperial Church...

Bear in mind that the Mechanicum worships the Machine God, not the Emperor.

The Emperor is seen as a prophesied figure called the Omnissiah, who's....basically space science Jesus but is not, precisely, the Machine God itself.

 Gert wrote:

Well, that's just not true at all. It is indeed the case that the Emperor did not use His full power to fight Horus out of a desire to not kill His favoured son, but a God-empowered Horus was absolutely not a cakewalk for the Emperor. Even when He did use His psychic abilities to their peak, it didn't kill the empowered Horus outright rather it weakened him and then the Gods abandoned their pawn. It took another bolt of psychic energy to erase Horus from existence.

Dude why the heck are you capitalizing the emperor's personal pronoun? It makes it seem like you're an irl Imperial Cultist.

But nah, the power spank on the Primarchs and Emperor has gotten to the point where it calls into question the necessity of the Thunder Warriors.


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 Gert wrote:
The Emperor is not strong enough to single-handedly beat a state that caused 20,000 Astartes deaths and 1 million other casualties. He was wounded by a Vortex Weapon on Proxima as well and He can be killed.

I disagree, a lot of the fluff says he *is* that strong.

Hecaton wrote:
Dude why the heck are you capitalizing the emperor's personal pronoun? It makes it seem like you're an irl Imperial Cultist.

Because there are a lot of pronouns used in these discussions and the capitalisation makes it clear exactly who I'm talking about.

But nah, the power spank on the Primarchs and Emperor has gotten to the point where it calls into question the necessity of the Thunder Warriors.

The Thunder Warriors came before the Primarchs you idiot. They were the test for massed produced super soldiers. Without the Thunder Warriors there are no Primarchs.

I disagree, a lot of the fluff says he *is* that strong.

OK, prove it. Give me examples where the Emperor single handedly conquered a whole planet in battle in a rapid time frame.

So the Emp is basically at the power level of Son Goku or Doctor Manhattan but prefers to build an State Apparatus and an army "for reasons".

Didnt thought that the HH novels were so dumb. :(

Are you a nigh-omnipotent being that holds bzck the darkness alone and can channel the power of a never ending parade of umpteen thousand psyker sacrifices? Who is also fictional?

The imperium is created, and so are the super soldiers that are used to expand and protect it.

Everything else is just window dressing by whatever author is cranking the handle today.

 Gert wrote:

Well, that's just not true at all. It is indeed the case that the Emperor did not use His full power to fight Horus out of a desire to not kill His favoured son, but a God-empowered Horus was absolutely not a cakewalk for the Emperor. Even when He did use His psychic abilities to their peak, it didn't kill the empowered Horus outright rather it weakened him and then the Gods abandoned their pawn. It took another bolt of psychic energy to erase Horus from existence.

Plus there are events various which contribute to it: Russ wounding him in Wolfsbane, Sanguinius breaching his armour on the Vengeful Spirit, the implication that Ollianus may be arming Sanguinius with the Athame shard that originally nearly killed him.

 Gert wrote:

Because there are a lot of pronouns used in these discussions and the capitalisation makes it clear exactly who I'm talking about.

Ok. Comes off a bit "I wish the Imperial Creed was real!"

 Gert wrote:

The Thunder Warriors came before the Primarchs you idiot. They were the test for massed produced super soldiers. Without the Thunder Warriors there are no Primarchs.

Why not? The Emperor would have had more time to work on the Astartes if he hadn't fethed around with Thunder Warriors.

 Gert wrote:

OK, prove it. Give me examples where the Emperor single handedly conquered a whole planet in battle in a rapid time frame.

They don't show that, but he is shown as being able to take down the kinds of things that you would normally need a *large* army for. He's more powerful than Magnus, and Magnus could destroy Titans.


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Vatsetis wrote:
So the Emp is basically at the power level of Son Goku or Doctor Manhattan but prefers to build an State Apparatus and an army "for reasons".

Didnt thought that the HH novels were so dumb. :(

Yeah pretty much. It's what happens when his power was originally supposed to be more restrained and then it got blown out of wack by authors writing power fantasies (presumably at GW's direction).

 Gert wrote:
And the Emperor can only be in one place at a time. So again what's easier, one man in one place winning one battle at a time or 20 armies in 20 places winning 18 battles?
Your logic is still hugely flawed.

The Emperor is a psyker of such incredible power he could reasonably have subjugated the entire planet by himself from one place though.

Magnus the Red, the Emperor's canonical inferior, has planetary feats of psychic power by the bucketload. He destroyed the surface of Prospero while fighting Russ, and telekinetically destroyed starships in orbit from the planet he was fighting on.

Inferior psykers like the Cacodominus or whatever its name was could control entire star systems telepathically.

Greater Daemons being summoned typically cause planetary devastation with their presence. The Emperor treats most Greater Daemons like fodder.

You're thinking of the Emperor and other really powerful psykers as being basically like a Librarian blasting enemies on the battlefield. In reality, the power creep has basically made them comic book superheroes. They have feats of such incredible power that there really shouldn't be any way an army can threaten them and there's no reason the Emperor couldn't subjugate Terra on his own. This is ignored for a better narrative. It's a flaw in the writing, but one that is relatively tolerable, at least to me.


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 Gert wrote:

The Emperor is not strong enough to single-handedly beat a state that caused 20,000 Astartes deaths and 1 million other casualties.

I mean, the Emperor is canonically able to subjugate an entire Legion of 100,000 gathered into one place with a single exertion of will, lol. When he forced the entire Word Bearers Legion down to their knees.

He is, by himself, able to overpower a force that would be overkill for bringing an entire world into compliance.

Even the protests that he can't be anywhere at once while ignoring the sheer scale of his power ignore that a psyker of the Emperor's power should be able to easily teleport, lol. And given that he was able to somehow get a shard of the Void Dragon to Mars during the Medieval ages it seems probable that's exactly what he did.

Hecaton wrote:

 Gert wrote:

Because there are a lot of pronouns used in these discussions and the capitalisation makes it clear exactly who I'm talking about.

Ok. Comes off a bit "I wish the Imperial Creed was real!"

Ah damn, you almost got towards your signature "imperium players are all literal fascists", next time maybe.

 Gert wrote:

The Thunder Warriors came before the Primarchs you idiot. They were the test for massed produced super soldiers. Without the Thunder Warriors there are no Primarchs.

Why not? The Emperor would have had more time to work on the Astartes if he hadn't fethed around with Thunder Warriors.

During the Age of Strife resources were initially scarce. Even Constantin Valdor states this in the book Valdor:Birth of the Imperium. The Custodes initially didn't have their signature golden armor, they had to fight with what they could get their hands on. So the Thunder Warriors were a stop gap solution until enough resources, scientists (like Amar Astarte) were amassed so the Astartes project could begin. It is also hinted that the enemies the early Imperium had to face on Terra were extremely dangerous even by 40k standards, using Dark Age of Technology weapons and genecraft. So even if the Emperor would have been able to roflstomp everyone directly in front of him, the main goal was to amass territory, resources and personnel to work towards the great crusade and BigE can't be everywhere at once.

 Gert wrote:

OK, prove it. Give me examples where the Emperor single handedly conquered a whole planet in battle in a rapid time frame.

They don't show that, but he is shown as being able to take down the kinds of things that you would normally need a *large* army for. He's more powerful than Magnus, and Magnus could destroy Titans.

He likely is more powerful than Magnus, but like I said. He can't be everwhere at once.

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Vatsetis wrote:
So the Emp is basically at the power level of Son Goku or Doctor Manhattan but prefers to build an State Apparatus and an army "for reasons".

Didnt thought that the HH novels were so dumb. :(

Yeah pretty much. It's what happens when his power was originally supposed to be more restrained and then it got blown out of wack by authors writing power fantasies (presumably at GW's direction).

Even if you're as powerful as the Emperor, you still need a working state apparatus to govern your empire. This was one of the reasons why Malcador was such an important character.

You are also completely missing the point in all of this. Even if the Emperor could have controlled the whole galaxy through his powers or just mind controlled everyone like the Cacodominus, that was never the end goal. The Emperor took it upon himself to drag humanity forward towards their evolution into a psychic race. Talk about colossal hubris, but in his mind this was the only way to protect humanity from the creeping influence of chaos, which was why the webway project was such a big deal. In most heresy books that go into the plans of the Emperor there is always a theme of extreme time pressure. The Emperor probabaly already was the most powerful psyker in the galaxy during the heresy, but he still needed a functional empire for his plans to work.


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 Void__Dragon wrote:

I mean, the Emperor is canonically able to subjugate an entire Legion of 100,000 gathered into one place with a single exertion of will, lol. When he forced the entire Word Bearers Legion down to their knees.

He is, by himself, able to overpower a force that would be overkill for bringing an entire world into compliance.

Even the protests that he can't be anywhere at once while ignoring the sheer scale of his power ignore that a psyker of the Emperor's power should be able to easily teleport, lol. And given that he was able to somehow get a shard of the Void Dragon to Mars during the Medieval ages it seems probable that's exactly what he did.

"Should be able to" doesn't mean he can in-lore. There is not one example of the Emperor just teleporting around a planet, let alone the whole galaxy. Again, he might be the most powerful "mortal" psyker in the galaxy, but the is not a god. He's not omnipotent.

 Void__Dragon wrote:
I mean, the Emperor is canonically able to subjugate an entire Legion of 100,000 gathered into one place with a single exertion of will, lol. When he forced the entire Word Bearers Legion down to their knees.

Wasn't that more their 'conditioning' then the Emperor's power?

Tiberias wrote:
There is not one example of the Emperor just teleporting around a planet, let alone the whole galaxy. Again, he might be the most powerful "mortal" psyker in the galaxy, but the is not a god. He's not omnipotent.

His return to Earth from Molech?

 Gert wrote:
Custodes then Thunder Warriors. The Primarchs and Astartes were the final product designed to be the perfect warriors for the expansion and maintaining of humanity's domain.

Nah. They were tool to be discarded when their job was done. Same fate as thunder warriors was waiting for them. First have marines cripple each other, then have humans finish off.

HUMAN was the final product. They were going to be the ones ruling. Not super humans.

Hilarious the idea of the big E walking around Earth, stomping every army in record time. As far as I am aware, he cannot teleport without equipment, so he wins the battle and walks back, runs back even? It's all well and good using transports, but they can still be disabled with heavy weapons, it won't kill the big E but it would slow him down...

Now to the real crux of the conundrum of big E single handily dominating Earth... He could only do this by killing everyone, literally everyone... People are free thinkings, they rebel. One many 'may' be able to win a battle, a war even, but holding the ground afterwords? He'd just be on an endless cycle of putting out fires if he left anyone alive, and what is the point of taking over Terra or even the galaxy in the name of humanity if you have to wipe everyone out to accomplish it?

I hate using real life examples to justify 40k lore as it is apples and oranges in terms of circumstance, but anyway, there are plenty of real world scenarios where overwhelmingly more powerful forces are defeated because winning a battle and holding ground are entirely different things.

tneva82 wrote:

 Gert wrote:
Custodes then Thunder Warriors. The Primarchs and Astartes were the final product designed to be the perfect warriors for the expansion and maintaining of humanity's domain.

Nah. They were tool to be discarded when their job was done. Same fate as thunder warriors was waiting for them. First have marines cripple each other, then have humans finish off.

HUMAN was the final product. They were going to be the ones ruling. Not super humans.

This is deliberately left vague. That could have been the intention. However, the Astartes could have been intended to then act as peacekeepers and guards, or even to attack adjacent galaxies.

What we do know is that many legions appear to have had traits useful to civilian life too. Particularly, but not exclusively, the Salamanders. I think discarding that out of hand would have been a waste of carefully crafted resources.

Also, given the Emperor's divination abilities, I suspect he would've had an inkling of the future threats of Necrons and Tyranids. To be fair, could raise an entirely new army by then.

Isn't the idea of the Emperor's power level intentionally vague and "up to the reader"?

Like, he can puppet a primarch Gman from a galaxy away so that he can utterly curb stomp a demon primarch like Mephy, but he can't at the same time, speak to his leaders. He can create Saints and manifest miracles at will, but he can't stop Cadia from being destroyed.

It's like the whole Christian per-suppasitionalism. If God is onmnipotent, how does he allow bad things like cancer to happen to his most beloved followers. How does he allow his only son to be tortured and crucified to death? And the answer is always the same enigmatic BS: For reasons that are perfectly sufficient to God.

The Emp couldnt even see the heresy happening while he was sitting on the throne.
Never mind his absolutely dumb arse decision to, hello there warp, free ride to the centre of human existence. Drinkers Ah itil be fine. Everyone gaks themselves.
A tool made to be discarded, is only a thing that people who dont use tools say. Tools are to be used, not wasted.
Its something some authours have leaned into how ever, to give a gotcha moment.
Orks always need mowing. People will always think its not a fair deal and rise up.
Then theres every foreign threat he hasnt seen. Tyranids, Necrons,

tneva82 wrote:
Nah. They were tool to be discarded when their job was done. Same fate as thunder warriors was waiting for them. First have marines cripple each other, then have humans finish off.

HUMAN was the final product. They were going to be the ones ruling. Not super humans.

I never said the Astartes or Custodes would rule humanity, they would be its guardians and would fill specific roles in society.

@Hecaton


@Void_Dragon

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Hilarious the idea of the big E walking around Earth, stomping every army in record time. As far as I am aware, he cannot teleport without equipment, so he wins the battle and walks back, runs back even? It's all well and good using transports, but they can still be disabled with heavy weapons, it won't kill the big E but it would slow him down...

Now to the real crux of the conundrum of big E single handily dominating Earth... He could only do this by killing everyone, literally everyone... People are free thinkings, they rebel. One many 'may' be able to win a battle, a war even, but holding the ground afterwords? He'd just be on an endless cycle of putting out fires if he left anyone alive, and what is the point of taking over Terra or even the galaxy in the name of humanity if you have to wipe everyone out to accomplish it?

I hate using real life examples to justify 40k lore as it is apples and oranges in terms of circumstance, but anyway, there are plenty of real world scenarios where overwhelmingly more powerful forces are defeated because winning a battle and holding ground are entirely different things.

In Watch Men, doctor Manhattam solves the Vietnam War in a few days (weeks perhaps) ... If the big E has indeed that level of power he could simply terrorize or subdue through a godlike desplay of power all pre crusade Terra in a few years.

Would any body really try to resist the power of a "true god" if it was make manifest in an unhinged manner??

Vatsetis wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Hilarious the idea of the big E walking around Earth, stomping every army in record time. As far as I am aware, he cannot teleport without equipment, so he wins the battle and walks back, runs back even? It's all well and good using transports, but they can still be disabled with heavy weapons, it won't kill the big E but it would slow him down...

Now to the real crux of the conundrum of big E single handily dominating Earth... He could only do this by killing everyone, literally everyone... People are free thinkings, they rebel. One many 'may' be able to win a battle, a war even, but holding the ground afterwords? He'd just be on an endless cycle of putting out fires if he left anyone alive, and what is the point of taking over Terra or even the galaxy in the name of humanity if you have to wipe everyone out to accomplish it?

I hate using real life examples to justify 40k lore as it is apples and oranges in terms of circumstance, but anyway, there are plenty of real world scenarios where overwhelmingly more powerful forces are defeated because winning a battle and holding ground are entirely different things.

In Watch Men, doctor Manhattam solves the Vietnam War in a few days (weeks perhaps) ... If the big E has indeed that level of power he could simply terrorize or subdue through a godlike desplay of power all pre crusade Terra in a few years.

Would any body really try to resist the power of a "true god" if it was make manifest in an unhinged manner??

Unlike the Viet Cong vs Dr Manhattan, the 40k universe does have anti-psyker technologies that would reduce the power of the Emperor. We don't know a huge amount about the various pre-Unification polities, but we do know they were incredibly warlike and technologically advanced, and that they had survived the warp storms of the Age of Strife without the planet becoming a daemon world or falling to some other great psychic calamity. This latter point is in spite of being the seat of humanity and known to have extremely powerful psykers outside the Emperor.

It stands to reason that technology that counters or dampens psychic abilities were widespread, or the planet would have been unified under the other powerful psykers long before. For example, the overlord of the Empire of Ursh was a powerful sorceror and controlled conclaves of psykers, yet they had failed to unify the whole planet (although they did control the strongest pre-Unity Terran empire and represented the greatest challenge to the Emperor). This suggests other states were able to resist the psychic might of Ursh. These technologies probably formed the basis of some of the later Adeptus Astra Telepathica equipment and infrastructure.

It may even be the case that the Silent Sisterhood being present on Luna dampened the Emperor's ability with their massed nulls.

Whatever the reason, it is not especially difficult to find logically consistent reasons that the Emperor couldn't just mind control Terra's population and needed to create an army.

Excellent point... So the Emp had potential god like powers but this were hard countered in the pre unification Terra context, right?

Vatsetis wrote:
Excellent point... So the Emp had potential god like powers but this were hard countered in the pre unification Terra context, right?

Well no. The Emperor didn't conquer Terra by Himself just because there might have been powers out there that had counters to His Psyker abilities. He raised armies because as has been stated oh so many times it was far more efficient that way and was very much part of the plan to make Humanity stronger.
The Emperor was to be Mankind's shepherd into the future, helping it stumble back to the stars and reuniting its lost colonies. He was always going to leave Humanity to its own devices after it had become a fully Psychic race similar to the Aeldari prior to the Fall. He made the Custodes to be His companions, the Thunder Warriors to test the super soldier army concept, and then the Primarchs and Astartes when that process was more advanced. The Primarchs were, for all intents and purposes, to be extensions of the Emperor's own will. They would be tutored by Him and raised to be the perfect warriors and generals. What the plan was for the Primarchs after the galaxy was conquered is unknown.

Thats all very nice and informative. But if the Emp could have wipped 95% of Terra population with a couple of Psychyc Kamehamehas... Then mind control the survivors (mostly fertile young women) to quickly repopulate the planet ussing some reproductive techno magic... It would have been much more efficient that an actual military conquest.

Its absurd to pretend that a godlike creature with no hard counter on his powers is going to do things in a "humanly logic" manner.

So if the Emp really conquered Terra ussing mostly conventional human methods (like constructing an army and doing politics) probably he wasnt factually that powerfull.

The difference between a god an a very powerfull warlord is that the former dosent need human collaborators only worhispers... The HH Emp indeed need a host of human and post human help... Hence his powers are limited well below those of a godlike figure... Inspite bad writting, logic always wins.

No. The Emperor you are thinking about was an amalgamation of all the most powerful shamans on earth or whatever doing a sacrifice, to basically create him. The pre-emperor was just a man.

Gert, am I wrong on this?

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
No. The Emperor you are thinking about was an amalgamation of all the most powerful shamans on earth or whatever doing a sacrifice, to basically create him. The pre-emperor was just a man.

There was no pre-emperor. The sacrifice of all human shamans happened in like 8000 BC.