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 TalonZahn wrote:

MaleficentRuler wrote:

Either/Or wrote:
I’m a bit surprised to see this kickstarter doing so well given there is little discount, particularly if you take into account shipping. I think a more reasonable offering on the part of catalyst is smart given the issues with other kickstarters, just surprised folks are pledging so much vs wait for retail and pay the same or less.

I think there a quite a few people holding out till later in the campaign to see if the value goes up before dropping the pledge, I certainly am. With VAT and shipping to the UK the value is just not there at the moment. Even with the difficulty of getting BT at retail locally, i will just wait for retail, if i even pick it up at all.

This is the case with a large amount of people.

You can see it in the comments on KS, here, Facebook groups, etc.....

Any when they get shouted down, they go silent.

That's never good.


Although the shills seem to like it and claim the moral victory.

I was in at $500, pulled to $80 and sat, as have many. Others are just sitting and waiting their time out.

Hey Talon,

I'm in the same boat, currently sitting at Veteran level and waiting what further miniature stretch goals will be unlocked.

That being said, I'm a EU-resident and I already prepared for and factored in VAT payment for my pledge.

For my understanding, what additional costs would apply to CONUS residents (your location states York, New England) ?

York, Nebraska a nice little quiet place for me to commission paint and live life.

Just S&H really, but if I wanted to pay close to what I can buy from an online store, why would I want to pay for S&H?

If I drop $500, literally anywhere online, I'll get more product and free S&H for less total.

If I was *not* in the U.S. there's almost zero chance I would back this KS.

MaleficentRuler wrote:

Either/Or wrote:
I’m a bit surprised to see this kickstarter doing so well given there is little discount, particularly if you take into account shipping. I think a more reasonable offering on the part of catalyst is smart given the issues with other kickstarters, just surprised folks are pledging so much vs wait for retail and pay the same or less.

I think there a quite a few people holding out till later in the campaign to see if the value goes up before dropping the pledge, I certainly am. With VAT and shipping to the UK the value is just not there at the moment. Even with the difficulty of getting BT at retail locally, i will just wait for retail, if i even pick it up at all.

Didn't they say they were shipping from a UK hub? While there will be a cost, it shouldn't be as bad as if the package was getting sent direct from the US.

 TalonZahn wrote:
If I was *not* in the U.S. there's almost zero chance I would back this KS.

Being in the EU... yup, pretty much. I'll hold on to the pledge until the last couple days just in case, but I'll probably drop it altogether then, if it doesn't change a whole lot.

@ Talon :

Thanks for clarifying and sorry for placing you in the wrong York..

Old-Four-Arms wrote:
@ Talon :

Thanks for clarifying and sorry for placing you in the wrong York..

No worries bud.

Old Timey Americans were lazy with naming cities and depending where you are in the U.S. they don't even pronounce the stolen names correctly!

 Dysartes wrote:

MaleficentRuler wrote:

Either/Or wrote:
I’m a bit surprised to see this kickstarter doing so well given there is little discount, particularly if you take into account shipping. I think a more reasonable offering on the part of catalyst is smart given the issues with other kickstarters, just surprised folks are pledging so much vs wait for retail and pay the same or less.

I think there a quite a few people holding out till later in the campaign to see if the value goes up before dropping the pledge, I certainly am. With VAT and shipping to the UK the value is just not there at the moment. Even with the difficulty of getting BT at retail locally, i will just wait for retail, if i even pick it up at all.

Didn't they say they were shipping from a UK hub? While there will be a cost, it shouldn't be as bad as if the package was getting sent direct from the US.

 TalonZahn wrote:
No worries bud.

Old Timey Americans were lazy with naming cities and depending where you are in the U.S. they don't even pronounce the stolen names correctly!

Not just lazy, probably sucking up to their sponsors as well. Although it wasn't limited to English colonists; look at Louisiana, for example.

As for my pledge, I too am at Veteran, though I tossed in +$8 before they added Mercs Salvage boxes. Like others, I'm waiting to see what miniatures will be added, if any. Can always drop. Probably should since despite my initial enthusiasm for Alpha Strike, I've gotten distracted again, and am not painting my mechs. Why add to the pile? [Although I probably will. If not this KS, another one, like Gangs of Rome or the latest Kensei one with onna bugeshia, that's 'female/women warriors' in Japanese.]

 Dysartes wrote:

MaleficentRuler wrote:

Either/Or wrote:
I’m a bit surprised to see this kickstarter doing so well given there is little discount, particularly if you take into account shipping. I think a more reasonable offering on the part of catalyst is smart given the issues with other kickstarters, just surprised folks are pledging so much vs wait for retail and pay the same or less.

I think there a quite a few people holding out till later in the campaign to see if the value goes up before dropping the pledge, I certainly am. With VAT and shipping to the UK the value is just not there at the moment. Even with the difficulty of getting BT at retail locally, i will just wait for retail, if i even pick it up at all.

Didn't they say they were shipping from a UK hub? While there will be a cost, it shouldn't be as bad as if the package was getting sent direct from the US.

My understanding is that people are concerned because the graphic on the website specifically calls out backers being responsible for VAT, whereas in the Clan Invasion Kickstarter however it was imported/shipped did not incur a VAT payment.

 Altruizine wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

MaleficentRuler wrote:

Either/Or wrote:
I’m a bit surprised to see this kickstarter doing so well given there is little discount, particularly if you take into account shipping. I think a more reasonable offering on the part of catalyst is smart given the issues with other kickstarters, just surprised folks are pledging so much vs wait for retail and pay the same or less.

I think there a quite a few people holding out till later in the campaign to see if the value goes up before dropping the pledge, I certainly am. With VAT and shipping to the UK the value is just not there at the moment. Even with the difficulty of getting BT at retail locally, i will just wait for retail, if i even pick it up at all.

Didn't they say they were shipping from a UK hub? While there will be a cost, it shouldn't be as bad as if the package was getting sent direct from the US.

My understanding is that people are concerned because the graphic on the website specifically calls out backers being responsible for VAT, whereas in the Clan Invasion Kickstarter however it was imported/shipped did not incur a VAT payment.

The post I replied to specifically said "shipping to the UK", as well as VAT - I'd seen something about the former, so commented on it; unaware of anything about VAT, so didn't comment on that.

And given shipping from the US to the UK is a spicy meat-a-ball, not having to pay that if you thought you did is a good thing, no?

Check the FAQ. Its very clear who is responsible for the VAT.

Indeed, we have to pay local shipping from hub to home not to the hub, even so i expect based on recent KS that to be in the $25+ if not more range, that makes the $275 level pledge $360ish to the UK ((275+25)1.2) as you have to pay VAT on shipping too.

If i ignore the swag which i have no interest in, I can get equivalent content (force packs, salvage boxes , map packs etc) for about 80% of that cost, the only issue being it can be hard to track down due to CGL distribution issues in UK.

"Here, we added an in between stretch goal."
"Is it more minis? More maps? More anything related to the game."
"It's another PDF story."
"Great."

 Ghaz wrote:
Check the FAQ. Its very clear who is responsible for the VAT.

The rules governning VAT in the EU have been ammended since the Clan KS. Before July 2021 non EU packages when shipped from a hub within the EU didn't have to pay VAT unless those packages exceeded a failry high amount of money. Now every package is due to pay the tax. (And lowest VAT in the EU starts at 19% iirc)

M.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
"Here, we added an in between stretch goal."
"Is it more minis? More maps? More anything related to the game."
"It's another PDF story."
"Great."

You have a point there. I don't think I bothered claiming the fiction from the last KS. But if that PDFs were old FASA books I'd be pretty interested as I had a punch of FASA era PDFs in an old laptop that went belly up.

M.

I'm becoming resigned to the idea of low value that may be partially overcome by people just not caring that much and still throwing money at this. An advantage of having an audience of a lot of people who probably haven't done many Kickstarters before to have expectations. And I do have to hand it to them, they did quickly respond to the fact that their campaign has no value, not necessarily by fixing it, but by laying out huge stretch goal levels that could partially fix it. So now people don't have any reason to get upset mid-campaign the way they do every time CMON pulls this kind of thing.

 Miguelsan wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:
Check the FAQ. Its very clear who is responsible for the VAT.

The rules governning VAT in the EU have been ammended since the Clan KS. Before July 2021 non EU packages when shipped from a hub within the EU didn't have to pay VAT unless those packages exceeded a failry high amount of money. Now every package is due to pay the tax. (And lowest VAT in the EU starts at 19% iirc)

M..

Yes, which is why the FAQ for the Mercenaries Kickstarter says the following:

Catalyst will cover all freight, import duties, and handling fees. Backers will be responsible for local delivery and VAT.

Still translates to: Wait until retail and order local over the amount to get free S&H and you'll pay less, and no VAT!

I was a $500 right off the bat. Finding out it wasnt shipping for a year (after reading somewhere where it would be a much fastester campaign in and out, almost ready, etc LAST year, I'll be cutting my pledge at least in half.

The stretch goals have been insulting. The 500 tier is crappy. They've killed my hype. I hope it does really well still but I'm not feeling this preorder scheme.

I don't know if you don't get it, you don't want to get it, or if it's something else. When EU customers complain about the lack of value due to VAT is not that they don't know that the FAQ says that they are responsible for the VAT, it's that previous to July 2021 unless you went in for a huge amount of money the VAT was effectively 0, no matter if it was shipped from Germany, the US, or Australia.

So during the Clan KS a Star Captain pledge was 95$ + shipping to the EU + 0% VAT.
Now a Veteran pledge is going to be 80$ + shipping + 21% VAT on the basic pledge and the shipping.

It's up to Catalyst to decide to be more, or less generous with the rewards, but it's also true that non-US supporters got the short straw this time, and they are right to complain that the value is not there.

As a further example a Clan star add-on in the Mercs KS is going to be 30$ +21% VAT = 36.3$ shipping not included. In Goblin Trader (Spanish shop) the same star costs 37.84$

M.

 TalonZahn wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
The momentum does continue to be going, if not at quite the crazy rate of the first couple of days.

An audiobook is a nice little bonus - after all, this wasn't a pre-announced stretch goal to try to unlock, it was only announced after that mark was hit.

Dare we ask how you expressed yourself over there, that caused your comment to get flagged as breaking KS guidelines?

I said: "Way to work on keeping the momentum going forward with that newest reward...... LMAO!"


So clearly their butt is sore.

I guess some people enjoy crumbs more than others.

Censorship is good for you. It keeps you from high expectations and unfounded optimism.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:

MaleficentRuler wrote:

Either/Or wrote:
I’m a bit surprised to see this kickstarter doing so well given there is little discount, particularly if you take into account shipping. I think a more reasonable offering on the part of catalyst is smart given the issues with other kickstarters, just surprised folks are pledging so much vs wait for retail and pay the same or less.

I think there a quite a few people holding out till later in the campaign to see if the value goes up before dropping the pledge, I certainly am. With VAT and shipping to the UK the value is just not there at the moment. Even with the difficulty of getting BT at retail locally, i will just wait for retail, if i even pick it up at all.

Didn't they say they were shipping from a UK hub? While there will be a cost, it shouldn't be as bad as if the package was getting sent direct from the US.

There is a UK hub, so no customs, but we will pay 20% extra VAT.

It is still keeping pace with retail if you get support packs of level IIs with your forcepack allowance. This is what I will be doing for the most part.

The saving grace is that you pay VAT later so the payment is spread out and manageable.

The other thing that argues for getting stuff is that the packs will hit retail in a year or so, and inflation is currently running pretty hot. So as long as it’s not much worse than retail at the moment, then it might be worth it in the long run.

I was looking through a few past big hitters in Kicktraq, and this one is similar in terms of the nominal daily uplift, I.e. about $50-100k per day. The difference is that this one got there after just 2 days, rather than 5 or 6. However, this one also made more in that first day, so I think the dynamics are a bit different here.

Frosthaven
http://kicktraq.com/projects/frosthaven/frosthaven/#chart-daily

Green Horde
http://kicktraq.com/projects/cmon/zombicide-green-horde/#chart-daily

Mercenaries
http://kicktraq.com/projects/cgl/battletech-mercenaries/#chart-daily

 Dysartes wrote:

Out of interest, which of the ForcePacks are people looking to get, assuming you've pledged to get some of them? I'm thinking the Clan Direct Fire Star for one, but not sure about the other yet.

One pack each of all the tanks and IS Battle Armor. If there are still packs I can get from my Battalion pledge, I will start chasing Ost mechs and then other IS packs.

 Dysartes wrote:
Out of interest, which of the ForcePacks are people looking to get, assuming you've pledged to get some of them? I'm thinking the Clan Direct Fire Star for one, but not sure about the other yet.

Right now, definitely at least one Assault & Cavalry and one Battle & Fire, the Clan Direct Fire Star (need me that Highlander IIC), and both Legendary packs (excuse for more Marauders and an extra Devastator). May end up getting some battle armour as well, though I have a ton of metal stands of the stuff, so not certain on that. Might also grab the IS Assault Lance as I have a soft spot for the Goliath (and it can keep my metal Barghests company). Any extras will probably go to double-up on some of the vehicle packs so I can field pure lances of some of the vehicles.

Is the Urbanmech lance going to be an option? Could use some stumpy support to go with the box of 12 Urbies I had purchased.

The latest update is more of an FAQ.

Main things it confirms are:

1. There are now "brown box/Retaliation boxes" planned at this stage. I'm am insistently asking them to reconsider.

2. The Salvage Boxes do not contain any vehicles.

3. Any non-exclusive force packs, as well as things like the UrbanMech Lance and Proliferation Lance will be available as add-ons (no confirmation if available as included lance packs though).

They said a long time ago that vehicles wouldn't be in the Salvage Boxes.

 Orlanth wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
SturmFeur? I don't own any of those.

The names don't really mean anything to me - aside from the Hetzer, in historical/WoT context - but the Von Luckner name amuses me

Overall it is a good force pack. I will be wanting at least one. I would however have preferred a swap out for the Hetzer, including another 'quality tank' like the Patton/Rommel instead. The Hetzer deserves to go into a militia support pack for cheap vehicles like J Edgars, Scimitars, Saladins, Savannah Masters, Scorpions or Strikers.

I think I saw somewhere that they would never do a Rommel (at least by that name) due to historical associations.

The ‘Rommel’ name is taken by the Rommel Howitzer in TRO: Prototypes for the reasons explained in the Patton’s RecGuide entry.

And it's only because of a bit of sudden onset brain-dead "presentism" that caused Catalyst to suddenly balk at the name after 40 fething years.

They just updated to say they'll be posting new stretch goals soon, so hopefully the value train keeps on chugging.