Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

As nice as the fw hh heads have been lately, I hope these new ranges will largely be done in plastic. I don’t want to rely on fw for upgrade parts or special characters.

While I appreciate the update concerning an older army I actually have painted...my favorite part of the entire article was the correct usage of "champing at the bit."

I am very, very tired of hearing people using "chomping".

Yes, I was raised by a mother with a Masters in English.

Yea prices won't be what they were then

I like the artwork.

Seems to be a full relaunch then. Khemri and Bretonnians, the elves, chaos, kislev.

 triplegrim wrote:
I like the artwork.

Seems to be a full relaunch then. Khemri and Bretonnians, the elves, chaos, kislev.

Dwarfs seem like a pretty safe bet as well, even if we haven't seen much about them yet.

We've seen artwork for Boarboyz as well as a bunch of Empire stuff. All art looks like old kits so far.

JSG wrote:
We've seen artwork for Boarboyz as well as a bunch of Empire stuff. All art looks like old kits so far.

Orks and Tomb Kings I am happy with staying the same - I was def hoping for some changes for the Empire.

Haha I just like the numbers on both the Warhammer and AoS Facebook
pages 751 and 951 likes and loves for a faction, which was discountinued. Empire only had 416.

After the Total War: Warhammer Tomb Kings trailer I can only say:

We do not serve! We Rule!

By the way do you guys think GW throw is a treat and release the unrealised Hierotitan for the the Tomb Kings?

I know this is just me, but i would not mind some of the older metals coming back and made to order like the Commissars. I think it would be fine if GW released metal units or even whole army via mail order.

I know it is an unpopular opinion, but some of the old models still hold up against some of the newer plastics and are clearly better than the fine cast models.

Man I hope they don’t rerelease old kits alongside new stuff. The old stuff is seriously out of date now. I hope this is all new from the ground up as far as releases. Let folks use their old armies for sure, but let’s move forward with new kits.

Out of date how?

 Paymaster Games wrote:
I know this is just me, but i would not mind some of the older metals coming back and made to order like the Commissars. I think it would be fine if GW released metal units or even whole army via mail order.

I know it is an unpopular opinion, but some of the old models still hold up against some of the newer plastics and are clearly better than the fine cast models.

It can be different for everyone, but TK skeletons and skeletal horsemen do not fall into that category. They need new stuff. A TK shield (but not weapons) sprue on an even older general undead skeletons kit was never sufficient.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Out of date how?

Generally just being poor sculpts. People were waiting for half the core troops to be redone before WFB got squatted.

 Paymaster Games wrote:
I know this is just me, but i would not mind some of the older metals coming back and made to order like the Commissars. I think it would be fine if GW released metal units or even whole army via mail order.

I know it is an unpopular opinion, but some of the old models still hold up against some of the newer plastics and are clearly better than the fine cast models.

I agree. There are good minis (and bad minis) from every period of Citadel's history. I'd love for them to bring back the good stuff as MTO.

JSG wrote:
We've seen artwork for Boarboyz as well as a bunch of Empire stuff. All art looks like old kits so far.

yeah, this worry me a bit......

JSG wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Out of date how?

Generally just being poor sculpts. People were waiting for half the core troops to be redone before WFB got squatted.

So you'd rather have "dynamic" posed fidgety frailty that shatters the second you try to transport it?


Honestly the Core troops need to be less modular poseable kits and more like the monopose models of old with maybe switchable fronts. Think Chaos Warriors. That is a great way to give people who think armies need individual poses their option and the people learned and intelligent enough to know how regimented troops look and act on an actual battlefield can have a uniform looking and moving regiment.

 Sacredroach wrote:
While I appreciate the update concerning an older army I actually have painted...my favorite part of the entire article was the correct usage of "champing at the bit."

I am very, very tired of hearing people using "chomping".

Yes, I was raised by a mother with a Masters in English.

Did she fail to teach you that language is flexible and evolutive?

Or that champing and chomping are synonyms?

Dread Master wrote:
Man I hope they don’t rerelease old kits alongside new stuff. The old stuff is seriously out of date now. I hope this is all new from the ground up as far as releases. Let folks use their old armies for sure, but let’s move forward with new kits.

If they don't use old kits then that limits seriously how much they put out at first. Even 6 armies all new wouldn't be realistic. Look at hh which is getting lots of plastic sku's yet nowhere near enough. And that's 3rd main game.

We are back to empire civil war with rest lot later(maybe army a year, 2 if lucky)

The advantage of reusing old kits is that, in theory, they wouldn't need to make new molds - get the old ones out of storage, dust them off and do a test cast or two, and they're good to go.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Out of date how?

basically the design, Tomb Kings saw a big design shift between 5th and 8th and in addition there was a change to the frame layout

selling 5th Edition Skeletons with a 6th Edition upgrade along with 8th Edition elite units did not turn out well 10 years ago and it won't be better now

we have seen many times before that armies sell best with a consistent design, (just imagine the Dark Eldar back than would get new vehicles and monsters but the core infantry would have stayed the same)

 Just Tony wrote:
So you'd rather have "dynamic" posed fidgety frailty that shatters the second you try to transport it?

and this is one reason why the old Skeletons need to be replaced, those were the ones that broke if you look at them from the wrong side

the problem was not that the kit was modular but that it was just bones with individual parts
Chaos Warriors war bad as well but in the other direction

as kits from the old times, Chaos Marauders were good, modular but sturdy

Yep. Which is why if you are hoping GW to put out multiple armies on sale(rather than just provide you army list if you happen to have old models) that would be most likely route.

Though paying current prices for old models would sting.

to be clear, we are talking about those models:


release those again for current "cheap" prices of 36€ per Box and you will know instantly why Warhammer died in the first place

Not making as much as marines made.

It was still making profit(or GW were idiots if top-3 selling miniature games were not making profit. Where were they spending sale profits?)

They will 100% bring out two Armies from the start and the rest ist playable via compendium books with Army Lists and Profiles you will use until they replace them when this Army gets a Model release.

They said at the beginning that they will completly rework the Miniatures Ranges.

tneva82 wrote:
Not making as much as marines made.
It was still making profit(or GW were idiots if top-3 selling miniature games were not making profit. Where were they spending sale profits?)

which has nothing to do with what was written above

the "buy in" is during the Army Book release, which GW has shown with numbers during the CH trial (with the only exception being the vanilla Marine box as this one sold with each Marine Codex and not just the vanilla one and this is were the "not as much as Marines" comes from)

but this means, if the Army is not attractive as a whole to get people to buy a new one during book release, it won't sell
existing players buying some of the new kits or new players buying in later when new kits come out are not enough

there is a reason why we see new AoS factions being "complete" and new model releases are with a new book

so if they re-release old armies with the same sales strategy that made them sell bad in the first place it won't work out well
(rather worse, as no one is going to pay the GW price for those core units if they can get better for less and unlike during 8th the market is full of cheaper alternatives for Tomb Kings now)

Personally I use OnePageRules for my rank and file skellys but I will go all in on necropolis knights and stalkers, and some ushabti if they're all rereleased, alongside the sick tomb guard kit!!

 Just Tony wrote:

JSG wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Out of date how?

Generally just being poor sculpts. People were waiting for half the core troops to be redone before WFB got squatted.

So you'd rather have "dynamic" posed fidgety frailty that shatters the second you try to transport it?


Honestly the Core troops need to be less modular poseable kits and more like the monopose models of old with maybe switchable fronts. Think Chaos Warriors. That is a great way to give people who think armies need individual poses their option and the people learned and intelligent enough to know how regimented troops look and act on an actual battlefield can have a uniform looking and moving regiment.

Take a look at the recent middle earth boxes. Loads of new plastic fighters in monopose just-ad-arm style. I think we will see something similar for TOW.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Out of date how?

Have a look at this one:



I don't think that's an army GW of today could sell. Even with a better paintjob than I could manage fifteen years ago the models have numerous issues in sculpting quality that customers used to modern GW kits would not likely put up with.

The Casket is probably among the models that held up the best with the details not as crisp as they could be. It also has going for it that it's devoid of swirly crap.

The Bone Giant is converted to look more like the artwork in the army book not just because it looks cool but because the stock version has a silly dancing pose. As sold it's not a very enticing model. It is fairly large though, and detail quality holds up because of it.

The Tomb Scorpions aren't too terrible as far as the beasties go, but the embedded priests have poor detail.

The plastic Skeleton Warriors and Archers are models that were bad in the 90s when they were still fresh, and use an upgrade sprue to give them bows and shields that's not much better. Notably you only get one khopesh for every four models, so a unit equipped as the skeleton in the latest artwork is just not going to happen. Never mind the general size and quality of the weapon sculpts.

Tomb Guard are of moderate quality. Stylistically they're not bad, but the sculpts let them down a bit with too little wrapping (that's not particularly well done at that), casting compromises because of single piece metal bodies (plus separate shield) and a little softer detail than modern plastic is capable of.

The characters have much the same sculpting issues and the swarms do not compare to the decorative scarabs from the sphinx kit for instance.

Tomb Kings had some good metal sculpts twenty years ago when many plastic sculpts were still bulky and unrefined, with some shallow and soft detail. They compared favorably to what was around at the time, but they certainly didn't age well.

And because that's not enough, you have warriors from the 90s that look more like a mercenary regiment than a state funded standing army because the upgrade sprues don't bring their weapon style in line with the rest of the army, a bulk of metal support units from the 00s that have a certain sculpting style that isn't particularly close to the plastic skeletons, and the additions of the 10s that introduced a significantly altered style for Tomb Guard, embiggened models and crisper bobbleheads that tie them in with the plastic skeletons but not the finer heads of metal models. Tomb Kings as they were sold before they were squatted are a considerable mismatch both stylistically and in sculpting and casting quality.

I've said it before, but I just don't see how GW could successfully sell that army for The Old World. You can make a similar case for other armies as well that suffered from incremental model updates, if they got any at all, and GW's refusal to keep Core models up to date that you have to have in your army. And then you look at a gap of almost a decade since Fantasy got exploded and army updates stopped for good and have all the new 40k and AoS sculpts that set a higher bar for sculpting quality, and bringing back old, very much out of date sculpts just doesn't seem like a viable idea.

I'm still curious how GW is planning to tackle that problem. Common sense says that The Old World is too much of an unknown to have the same resources thrown at it as even Horus Heresy, but common sense also says that simply selling old models for new prices isn't going to make the game successful.

So when the latest article says...

The supreme monarch of Nehekhara and the other Tomb Kings are going to be major players in the stories we will tell in Warhammer: the Old World, and it has been wonderful to come back to them after all these years. They’re not technically denizens of the Old World, but their invasions play a key part in the narrative at this time during the history of the setting.

... it implies that GW wants to put the faction in the spotlight to incentivize model sales rather then putting out an index army list or whatever and just giving players with old armies narrative hooks without any intention for model support. If they want to sell models, they need models that sell or else the whole exercise is in vain.

 Geifer wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Out of date how?

I've said it before, but I just don't see how GW could successfully sell that army for The Old World. You can make a similar case for other armies as well that suffered from incremental model updates, if they got any at all, and GW's refusal to keep Core models up to date that you have to have in your army. And then you look at a gap of almost a decade since Fantasy got exploded and army updates stopped for good and have all the new 40k and AoS sculpts that set a higher bar for sculpting quality, and bringing back old, very much out of date sculpts just doesn't seem like a viable idea.

I'm still curious how GW is planning to tackle that problem. Common sense says that The Old World is too much of an unknown to have the same resources thrown at it as even Horus Heresy, but common sense also says that simply selling old models for new prices isn't going to make the game successful.

We also still don't know how their sales model is going to look, what sort of army sizes they envision, and who, and in what medium, is going to produce these units. If the metal models are going to be ported to e.g. Forgeworld resin that is gonna bring a lot of other issues into the mix, like warping, casting errors and all sorts of problems in handling the models in general. And of course the price is a considerable unknown factor - selling old models with new prices would be bad enough, but selling special units at forgeworld prices would make the game basically outright unaffordable if you were set on buying from GW instead of picking up a whole army on the secondary/alternative market.

The more GW tease TOW, the more ambivilent I become. They're not the same company that they were during Fantasy's prime, and I really don't trust them enough to make an agreeable rank&file regimented game without sticking all sorts of gak on top. If GW release sensible boxes at a sensible price point, a regiment per box, it will be a real shock for me. I don't necessarily want big blocks of infantry any more, three ranks of eight is enough, but I want TOW to sit in the right price point. I can see this going south very quickly. :(