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I find the... lack of imagination, literal overinterpretation of events, I don't know what you want to to call it... in those responses kinda frightening.

Kislev is coming, they said explicitly it would. The fact that it's not a core faction and not the present focus does not mean it's not.

Kislev is coming, at the end of the story arc when they reached Praag

if this will ever happen is something different, as first they need to start said story arc, which is not even clear that they would do it

for now we having nothing except that Bretonnia get new resin models
might just well be a anniversary release without rules at all

and yes, teasing Kislev and Cathay was simply just to show something to go along with TWW and they had nothing else to show.
if Total War would have started with Chaos Dwarfs instead of Kislev we would have seen those instead
and if TWW 3 would not have been released that time we would have seen nothing

chaos0xomega wrote:
I find the... lack of imagination, literal overinterpretation of events, I don't know what you want to to call it... in those responses kinda frightening.

Kislev is coming, they said explicitly it would. The fact that it's not a core faction and not the present focus does not mean it's not.

I don't think it's that hard to understand why people wouldn't be happy for them to hype up this project by showing off something that the have no plans to include as part of the game for several years after launch, at best.

Well, it was a design process. Not the design process for TOW

 kodos wrote:
and yet it is still on its own instead of parts of the rider being cast on parts of it

not something GW has done for a very long time

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/horus-heresy-sky-hunter-squadron-2023

Yea. It's few months.

Gw release schedule has warped people's perceptions since half a year or so is "very long time",'

Btw above also provides better explanation for why than resin model inside. DUCY?

tneva82 wrote:

 kodos wrote:
and yet it is still on its own instead of parts of the rider being cast on parts of it

not something GW has done for a very long time

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-FI/horus-heresy-sky-hunter-squadron-2023

Yea. It's few months.

Gw release schedule has warped people's perceptions since half a year or so is "very long time",'

Btw above also provides better explanation for why than resin model inside. DUCY?

Votann bikers from last year are also separate from the bike/mount. To be fair in AoS it's been a while to my knowledge for them to be separate.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I find the... lack of imagination, literal overinterpretation of events, I don't know what you want to to call it... in those responses kinda frightening.

Kislev is coming, they said explicitly it would. The fact that it's not a core faction and not the present focus does not mean it's not.

I don't think it's that hard to understand why people wouldn't be happy for them to hype up this project by showing off something that the have no plans to include as part of the game for several years after launch, at best.

Based on what, exactly? They said the first wave of the game will be focused on the Border Princes region, which includes a Kislev presence. I don't know how long the first wave is going to last, but I would be surprised if it lasts "years". It seems pretty likely Kiselv will see inclusion pretty early on.

Why does the Border Princess includes Kislev and where does they say that it is now added at the beginning an not the end of the story arc when reaching Praag?

and given how long HH needs to reach Terra, why do you think they will reach Praag within months and not years?

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I find the... lack of imagination, literal overinterpretation of events, I don't know what you want to to call it... in those responses kinda frightening.

Kislev is coming, they said explicitly it would. The fact that it's not a core faction and not the present focus does not mean it's not.

I don't think it's that hard to understand why people wouldn't be happy for them to hype up this project by showing off something that the have no plans to include as part of the game for several years after launch, at best.

Based on what, exactly? They said the first wave of the game will be focused on the Border Princes region, which includes a Kislev presence. I don't know how long the first wave is going to last, but I would be surprised if it lasts "years". It seems pretty likely Kiselv will see inclusion pretty early on.

Do you honestly think based on what they've shown and said that within the first 1-2 years of the games release, we'll be getting what's effectively an entire new army of Kislev? Especially when they've ruled out 7 existing WHFB armies as being part of this in a capacity beyond lip service so "you can bring them to battle for old times sake"?

I posted it on the previous page.

https://images.app.goo.gl/N8znn8o5ayQPZxKKA

Uvetovsk = Kislev (if nothing else, a Kislev themed border prince that would most likely utilize a Kislev army list).

The story is never reaching Praag. They were very explicit in stating that the narrative of the game (i.e. its future development for the next 10-20+ years at least) was set in the decades *before* the Siege of Praag. "before" is an exclusionary term, ie its usage indicates that the Siege of Praag is not included within the proscribed timeframe of the setting, in the same way that saying something is set "before World War 2" means that the events of world war 2 are not included in its story.

The first wave of the narrative (which probably means the next year or two, based on how development waves for Necromunda, Kill Team, and AoS have gone) is set in the Border Princes. As the Border Princes maps for the Old World include a Kislevite faction (which as far as I have been able to ascertain has never existed in the lore previously), it is reasonable to assume that Kislev will be included at some point within the next 1-2 years while the focus is still on the Border Princes.


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 Mentlegen324 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
I find the... lack of imagination, literal overinterpretation of events, I don't know what you want to to call it... in those responses kinda frightening.

Kislev is coming, they said explicitly it would. The fact that it's not a core faction and not the present focus does not mean it's not.

I don't think it's that hard to understand why people wouldn't be happy for them to hype up this project by showing off something that the have no plans to include as part of the game for several years after launch, at best.

Based on what, exactly? They said the first wave of the game will be focused on the Border Princes region, which includes a Kislev presence. I don't know how long the first wave is going to last, but I would be surprised if it lasts "years". It seems pretty likely Kiselv will see inclusion pretty early on.

Do you honestly think based on what they've shown and said that within the first 1-2 years of the games release, we'll be getting what's effectively an entire new army of Kislev? Especially when they've ruled out 7 existing WHFB armies as being part of this in a capacity beyond lip service so "you can bring them to battle for old times sake"?

100%.

This is weird, because usually you're the optimist and im the pessimist as far as TOW discussions go, but yes.

GW isn't bothering to resuscitate a dead game to just reissue old minis. Those old minis will sell well to the newbies coming in via TWW, but as is already well known from GWs financial reports and insider knowledge, the main money-maker for the company is new releases rather than the back catalogue. Once the community has had their fill of the old minis they will be moving on to new sculpts and new content. That is, after all, how they make their money. The cut factions all more or less live on in AoS anyway, so its not like they've fully abandoned them (and the presence of a Harkon banner on the Border Princes map implies that even though "Vampire Counts" won't be present, theres still the possibility of a necromantic wet-undead faction headed off by a secret vampire - I would assume theres a possibility we will see similar "not-Faction" armies come about, for example we might not get "Dark Elves" but we may get "Fellhearts Coastal Raiders" or "Mengil Manhides Manflayers" or whatever which bend the rules of the traditional take on these factions, etc.), they're still making money on that IP, just in a different context. In fact, cutting those 7 factions basically opens the door for them to add in new factions like Kislev - think about that as 7 extra mouths that don't need to get fed. Instead of needing to listen to Dark Elf and Lizardmen players bitch about how they aren't getting any support, GW can focus on providing support for a much smaller pool of legacy factions, which frees up the resources to add other factions.

I don't think Kislev will be a full army comparable to the core factions though. I'm expecting it to be a much more limited list (at least at first) - basically a couple heroes, winged lancers and a couple infantry choices, bears, and a cannon or something. What I expect is that the core factions will be launched in a single book with a very complete set of army lists included, and will see small updates and add-ons via supplements ala HH. The non-core factions (like Kislev) will see a more gradual and long term evolution over many more supplements rather than getting comprehensive detailed lists out of the gate.

My guess is they make a pretty basic game to start with. Classic models with the occasional new additions, index styled army rules, and a more or less balanced game because there is not much that stands out and generic magic.

And after a year or so, they release brand new army Kislev as the start of overpowered armybooks with crazy special rules and uniqe magics. Needless to say, Kislev sell really well.

 Fayric wrote:
My guess is they make a pretty basic game to start with. Classic models with the occasional new additions, index styled army rules, and a more or less balanced game because there is not much that stands out and generic magic.

And after a year or so, they release brand new army Kislev as the start of overpowered armybooks with crazy special rules and uniqe magics. Needless to say, Kislev sell really well.

Man... this seems strangely familiar...

Ha! Your post gave me a good chuckle

TOW now has a separate tab/category on Warcom. That wasn't there before, was it ?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-the-old-world/

I see first campaign about bretonnian crusade against tombking with index for all armies.

They have sixteen articles in the category but are missing the last three Bretonnian miniature reveals. That's shoddy. I wonder if anything else is missing. Probably not. Sounds about right for four years of previews (or lack thereof).

 Geifer wrote:
They have sixteen articles in the category but are missing the last three Bretonnian miniature reveals. That's shoddy. I wonder if anything else is missing. Probably not. Sounds about right for four years of previews (or lack thereof).

I am surprised it is that much. Looking forward tl seeing a few more models tomorrow and maybe a game mid 2025 sometimes?

Old-Four-Arms wrote:

TOW now has a separate tab/category on Warcom. That wasn't there before, was it ?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-the-old-world/

It being listed on the same level as The Horus Heresy suggests it will be getting more attention than Necromunda does, which is nice if that's the case as that gets a decent amount of stuff.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Old-Four-Arms wrote:

TOW now has a separate tab/category on Warcom. That wasn't there before, was it ?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/warhammer-the-old-world/

It being listed on the same level as The Horus Heresy suggests it will be getting more attention than Necromunda does, which is nice if that's the case as that gets a decent amount of stuff.

Yeah Necroumunda has some lovely new art, lore and models - so fine with that

I'm looking forward to any tomb kings reveals. They've done multiple brets but not much of my crispy undead friends.

 triplegrim wrote:

 Geifer wrote:
They have sixteen articles in the category but are missing the last three Bretonnian miniature reveals. That's shoddy. I wonder if anything else is missing. Probably not. Sounds about right for four years of previews (or lack thereof).

I am surprised it is that much. Looking forward tl seeing a few more models tomorrow and maybe a game mid 2025 sometimes?

Its doubtful something they aren't planning to release for 2 years would get its own section on the website.

 kodos wrote:
and given how long HH needs to reach Terra

"Modern" HH is at the Siege of Terra. The Siege of Cthonia Campaign Book runs concurrent with the Siege of Terra. We just don't have that campaign as a book yet, but we're at the time period(and technically after).

Im not convinced they will be doing the Siege of Terra campaign directly, at least not for a while yet. Theres technically still a few rumored black books that never got released that they would presumably want to revisit, and I think technically speaking even the black books weren't set in a chronological order.

If Solar Auxila are the mystery army, maybe a Tallaan Black book?

 McDougall Designs wrote:
I'm looking forward to any tomb kings reveals. They've done multiple brets but not much of my crispy undead friends.

I suspect that the Bretonnian reveals are largely stuff that had been worked on way back, but never got released since the Brets never got a new army book. Tomb Kings aren't currently suffering from that issue since they had a release during 8th Edition.

Unless they decide it's finally time to release the Hierotitan model, of course. After all, they had rules for it in the 8th Edition army book, so there's a good chance that they had at least some work done on a model for it before End Times shut everything down.



Actually, all the chatter about the possibility of a "zombie dragon with a liche rider" has me in a bit of a paranoid mood lately. I like the Tomb Kings. They're one of the armies that I ran (the other was Druuchii). And an odd thought keeps surfacing that notes that while the Tomb Kings have never had a dragon in Warhammer Fantasy (or even a hint of a Khemrian dragon in the lore), the 5th Edition undead army from back when mummies were still part of the unified "undead" army had one. That same thought also notes the rumors that there will be an army box with a liche... but without a Tomb King. And my mind notes that while such an army would be illegal under both the 6th and 8th Edition Tomb Kings lists, (which require a Tomb King or Tomb Prince alongside the liche priest), such an army would be quite legal for the 5th Edition unified undead.

Yes, I'm probably overthinking things. And we don't know whether the "zombie dragon for Tomb Kings" rumor is accurate (I hope not; dragons quite bluntly have no place in a Khemrian army for thematic reasons). And yet...

Eh. The dragon might be more of a construct than a zombie dragon. I suppose we will know for sure soon enough.

Grail Seeker wrote:
Eh. The dragon might be more of a construct than a zombie dragon. I suppose we will know for sure soon enough.

Personally, I hope it's not even a construct dragon. The existing constructs, like the Necrosphinx, do the job just fine. And as I said above, dragons don't really fit thematically with the Tomb Kings, imo.

The rate of informative articles picking up this year and now TOW getting its own section shows that there is some meaningful progress and that we are finally close to release. Whatever „close“ means for GW.

As others have noted, a dragon mount was part of the Tomb King range for Warmaster, so would not be completly new.
Also, as the info is just based on a rumor, the model spotted by the source could be something simliar but not quite like a dragon.
The counterpart, in size at least, of the bretonnian pegasus would be the undead Dread Abyssal.
Thus, the rumored undead dragon could look similar to this mount:
https://www.games-workshop.com/resources/catalog/product/920x950/99120207031_DeathLordsMortarchsArkhantheBlack01.jpg
Which by the way also is a construct and so would fit the design of the Tomb King army.

I‘m looking forward to the preview today.

Depending on how familiar the people are with fantasy who spotted those, it might be exactly that model and not a new one

 Platuan4th wrote:

 kodos wrote:
and given how long HH needs to reach Terra

"Modern" HH is at the Siege of Terra. The Siege of Cthonia Campaign Book runs concurrent with the Siege of Terra. We just don't have that campaign as a book yet, but we're at the time period(and technically after).

So you mean we won't see Kislev with this version of TOW but with the 2nd Edition in 10-15 years?

Surely - surely - today is the day when The Old World will be properly revealed, right?

Not just another "And here's a new Bretonnian minis that will come out sometime in the future!" nonsense we've gotten up to now, right?

I'm expecting a resin Tomb Kings Lord on an undead horse.