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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
None of the above ever proved especially problematic.

Take your 40 Shades. Whack all the characters in. Concentrating your points and oomph isn’t a particularly good idea. Not when you don’t get a rank bonus. Not when those 40 dudes wear no armour. Sure I got -1 to hit with ranged stuff, but they were still T3 W1 running about in their undies.

Lob a magic missile or two at them, and I’ll be forcing Panic test quite quickly. Wipe out the Shades? That’s a bunch of characters on their own. T3 Characters at that.

Vampire Lord? Good luck getting the charge. Because without the charge, that S value is greatly lessened. And unless he’s palling about with Blood Knights or Wight Cavalry? See above about lobbing a couple of Magic Missiles and ranged attacks at him.

Star Dragon? Again that’s a lot of points. I know how to use Dragons effectively. And I know how to counter them (artillery, swamp them in combat). Or, if I’m playing Gobbos? Fanatics can make super short work of big stuff.

Sure, I had to work for it. But then, I had to work for every game I ever won. Because there are no sure things.

Holy gak, where were you when we needed you the most. 7th edition turned to crap because of insane power creep, but apparently you had the anwser to the cheeseiest of cheese to ever cheese the whole time! With gobbos nonetheless!

Of course Why did I not think of throwing a magic missile at a deathstar unit unleashing 80 bolts at me or bogging down a dragon with a 20 inch fly move

Not like you could stack magic items on that shade unit for magic resistance (15pts for each MR) and there were even an item that halved the BS of any unit shooting at the shade unit. Other items that could give always strike first, reroll to hit with shooting (quite good when those 40 models have 2 shots each), become immune to psychology or cause fear themselves or even give combat resolution bonuses if the killing power itself wasn't enough for you.

If you paid 600pts for the shades and a few hundred more for the characters I assume any reasonable player would also spend a bit on those magic items to make it so panic, most magic, most shooting and most melee options wouldn't work against it. Would be pretty stupid otherwise after spending 50% of the points on a single death star.

artu87 wrote:
Any bets on what orcs infantry base sizes are gonna be judging by this photo?

Ignore the bases and look at the size of those units. I count about 20 models in the infantry. Are the days of insane unit sizes gone?

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:

Than you are not recalling Vampire lords with Red fury and Dread lance. 4 S7 attacks that hit automatically and for every wound you cause, you get to roll another attack. It seems you do not recall loosing 8 FREAKING dudes on a charge to single character.

You are not recalling Dark elf Assassins that took NO hero slots and had 6 WS10 ASF killing blow attacks.

You are not recalling Demon Bloodthirster with 0+ AS, 5+ WS, fly rule, terror rule and about 6 S7 hatred attacks.

Assasin and bloodthirster thus needed 100% kill rate to win by 1. Fail to hit or wound once and lost combat. Wopedoo.

Incidentally rolling one 1 from 6 is about 70% top of my head. So about 90% times you lose combat.

Hoffa76 wrote:
Ignore the bases and look at the size of those units. I count about 20 models in the infantry. Are the days of insane unit sizes gone?

I'm counting 30 in that Imperial unit in the middle.

And why isn't that Captain IN the unit?! (promo pic, I know)

SU-152 wrote:

artu87 wrote:
Any bets on what orcs infantry base sizes are gonna be judging by this photo?

IF the imperial infantry are on 25x25, I guess orc infantry are on 30x30 (and boar riders on 30x60)....

I think they said all infantry is 25x25

 Tastyfish wrote:

SU-152 wrote:

artu87 wrote:
Any bets on what orcs infantry base sizes are gonna be judging by this photo?

IF the imperial infantry are on 25x25, I guess orc infantry are on 30x30 (and boar riders on 30x60)....

I think they said all infantry is 25x25

The article on it said:

So now, all 20mm bases have been replaced with 25mm bases. Most (but not all) 25mm and 25×50 bases have been replaced with new-sized bases.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Hoffa76 wrote:
Ignore the bases and look at the size of those units. I count about 20 models in the infantry. Are the days of insane unit sizes gone?

I'm counting 30 in that Imperial unit in the middle.

And why isn't that Captain IN the unit?! (promo pic, I know)

I might have missed a rank, perhaps there are 3 complete ranks of 8 models but 30 is still sane compared to the 40-50 model empire core units of 8:th edition.

Guys, back on topic please, all older edition chatter can go elsewhere, getting a lot of reports here.

Not sure you can glean much from the promo shots.

I mean the studio armies were never remotely like how people actually built armies in 8th. I think this was in part why there seemed a clear disconnect between the rules writers and the lived experience. GW didn't have say 40 white lions/executioners/grave guard etc etc painted up under the same scheme. I don't think they could put down 18 ogres in one unit.

guessing orcs are on 30-32mm bases, at least shouldn't be too hard to rank them up now.

until they get replaced with larger models

A bombshell just hit the internet!

The first Old World novel is here:

www.fnac.com/livre-numerique/a19279544/Graham-McNeill-Lords-Of-The-Lance?fbclid=IwAR19wRmd563t-N9oH3TczJ9FVGO7qkBRBnwBsSxplZsWKEPbnCU7M5dlb18

Its available from the 24th of January 2024.

How many of us are fussed about rebasing? For friendlies I see no point in rebasing stuff.

Looks like it got taken down, so some poor web guy at "Fnac" is gonna lose his job, but the internet never forgets

There was a character list as well. And all six pegasus knights are women, which has rather amusingly set off a certain faction of..people.

 Inquisitor Gideon wrote:
There was a character list as well. And all six pegasus knights are women, which has rather amusingly set off a certain faction of..people.

The Leia, Ripley and Sarah O'Connor fanclub?

Tyel wrote:
Not sure you can glean much from the promo shots.

I mean the studio armies were never remotely like how people actually built armies in 8th. I think this was in part why there seemed a clear disconnect between the rules writers and the lived experience. GW didn't have say 40 white lions/executioners/grave guard etc etc painted up under the same scheme. I don't think they could put down 18 ogres in one unit.

Not to mention all the terrain being shoved to the edges of the table so the armies can face each other across a featureless plain with no obstacles.

artu87 wrote:
Any bets on what orcs infantry base sizes are gonna be judging by this photo?

Spoiler:

Where is this image from? It looks like they used the old metal stone trolls instead of the rockgut AOS ones. I figured they'd fit well on big square bases


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Also here’s the synopsis of the leaked book

This is from the website:
A Warhammer: The Old World Novel
The son of Baron Lothar Aquilena is taken captive in the Land of the Dead. Despite the bitter divide between Duke Carrard of Quenelles and the Baron, they form an uneasy alliance, mounting a treacherous expedition into the cursed realm.
READ IT BECAUSE
It’s a tale of chivalry coming before personal rivalries as noble knights attempt to rescue a nobleman's kidnapped son from the clutches of the undead.
THE STORY
When the son of Baron Lothar Aquilena of the Border Princes is taken captive, he calls in a debt of honour owed to him by Duke Carrard of Quenelles once his brother-in-arms and now his bitter rival.
This uneasy alliance of warrior knights mounts a dangerous expedition into the lifeless desolation beyond the badlands to a forgotten realm cursed to know neither water nor shade. The baron's son is held captive in the Land of the Dead, and the kings and queens of old do not rest easy in their tombs.

 Just Tony wrote:

Crap ideas are crap ideas whether I play the system or not. And is that seriously the best trolling you can do?

Not trolling. A serious question. You've said REPEATEDLY you're hard out because it has random charge ranges. Why do you lurk here and continue to comment if you already know you hate it? Why can't you let the rest of us consider things in peace?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Just Tony wrote:

Show me the rule on an open forum that says I have to commit to playing a game before commenting on it.


Go ahead, I'll wait.

It's not a rule, but it's generally considered polite to not troll people discussing a game you've already decided you hate.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

WorldEdgePlayer wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Utter, utter cobblers.

Sure, character models relied on fancy saves and that? But from 6th-8th, Herohammer was kind of done. In a unit they’d prove potent. But not on their own. Typically their Attack value barely scratch Rank and Banner combat res. Even if it exceeded (which was rare), they’d need to roll really, really well to even break even.

In a unit? I’d see you coming. And being a half way decent opponent? I’d look to my own forces and consider my counter. Maybe I’d chuck two or three chariots in, and just lawnmower my way to your General’s demise. Because all those fancy saves don’t matter when I’m running your broken unit down. Maybe I’d do what I could to play a wee sub game of “keep away” and refuse to engage the character and their unit.

Am I the only one accurately recalling the trials and tribulations of playing WHFB reasonably well?

Than you are not recalling Vampire lords with Red fury and Dread lance. 4 S7 attacks that hit automatically and for every wound you cause, you get to roll another attack. It seems you do not recall loosing 8 FREAKING dudes on a charge to single character.

You are not recalling Dark elf Assassins that took NO hero slots and had 6 WS10 ASF killing blow attacks.

You are not recalling Demon Bloodthirster with 0+ AS, 5+ WS, fly rule, terror rule and about 6 S7 hatred attacks.

You are not recalling High elf noble on a Star dragon single handedly won tournaments.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

No, but there don't appear to be too many of us. People tend to forget that WHFB was usually won or lost in the movement phase. Just having the most guns and the killiest Death Star unit wasn't enough.

Dark elf players taking a unit of 40 shades with great weapons and repeater crossbows and slamming all the characters in it was usualy enough to win. Or WoC players taking a unit of Chosen and slamming all the buffs on it was the meta. Or Empire taking 3 cannons, Hellblaster, 4 units of missle infantry and steam tank. Vampire counts with 15 power dice?

You can praise the movement phase all you want but what won the games, was the ability to remove enemy models from the board.

HIlariously, I remember trying Shadestar and getting my butt kicked by superior maneuvering. I learned the tricks, and from there was able to defeat the other deathstars you bring up not by engaging them, but by pointedly NOT engaging them...

 RustyNumber wrote:
How many of us are fussed about rebasing? For friendlies I see no point in rebasing stuff.

I'm not.
Other than my Khorne Juggernauts*, i haven't bothered to re-base any of my WHFB forces to AoS rounds/ovals.
And I play AoS with them all just fine.
I've got zero plans to re-base anything in order to play OW.
He'll, I'm not even going to make them new movement trays.

*The only reason my Juggernauts are all on ovals?
Most of them I've picked up 2nd hand. This resulted in a huge variety of base sizes/shapes, basing styles, conditions, and even materials. It looked dreadful. Even worse than the myriad terrible paint jobs most sported. :(
So a few years ago when I got around to properly painting them up into units I standardized thier bases.
I'll just make them movement trays as needed for OW.

leopard wrote:
guessing orcs are on 30-32mm bases, at least shouldn't be too hard to rank them up now.

until they get replaced with larger models

The upside to the dreadful model support we can expect for The Old World is that we likely won't have to worry about getting models replaced.

 GaroRobe wrote:


Where is this image from? It looks like they used the old metal stone trolls instead of the rockgut AOS ones. I figured they'd fit well on big square bases

It's from this article GW posted in July:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/24/old-world-development-diary-the-more-things-change-the-more-they-stay-the-same/

 RustyNumber wrote:
How many of us are fussed about rebasing? For friendlies I see no point in rebasing stuff.

No way in hell I'm rebasing ~100 skeletons and 50 Ghouls just because GW is utterly incapable of consistency.

 vipoid wrote:

 RustyNumber wrote:
How many of us are fussed about rebasing? For friendlies I see no point in rebasing stuff.

No way in hell I'm rebasing ~100 skeletons and 50 Ghouls just because GW is utterly incapable of consistency.

I'd already moved over to using more 25mm bases due to oathmark and war of the ring, but yeah there is no way in hell I'm rebasing skeletons. I use the warlord games ones and they would not survive being rebased unless I went through all the effort to cut the base into bits around the feet.

Not worth the effort for a game that:
a- that might not get adopted as the one-true fantasy rule set
b-Just as likely to go back on the base changes in a new edition in less than 3 years time
c- Very unlikely to be played in any 'official' capacity outside of a single tournament at warhammer world every year (and maybe in stores for the first week of release)

leaving out the rebasing or not stuff, but why everyone thinks that to actually do rebasing you need to remove the miniature from the old base?

Even if one does not use the original hollow GW bases but solid ones, you would alway simply just glue the old base with the miniature on it, onto a new base or plastic sheet

like if you have solid bases, get the renedra 25mm flat and add Greenstuff/Milliput to fill up the edge
or if you have hallow ones, remove the edge of the old base and glue it on the new one

just google the different re-basing stuff for 40k as Marine players have done this several times over the years and removing the miniature from the base was never part of that

That just sounds like rebasing with extra steps.

??

step 1: cutting of the miniature without damaging it
step 2: glue miniature on a new base
step 3: decoration/painting new base

or

step 1: glue old base on larger new flat base
step 2: fill the gabs
step 3: decoration/painting the new base

or

step 1: remove edge of old base
step 2: glue the flat old base on new larger base
step 3: decoration/painting of new base

I cannot see where there are the extra steps except that the risk for destroying your miniature is not there

 kodos wrote:
??

step 1: cutting of the miniature without damaging it
step 2: glue miniature on a new base
step 3: decoration/painting new base

or

step 1: glue old base on larger new flat base
step 2: fill the gabs
step 3: decoration/painting the new base

or

step 1: remove edge of old base
step 2: glue the flat old base on new larger base
step 3: decoration/painting of new base

I cannot see where there are the extra steps except that the risk for destroying your miniature is not there

Let's assume for a second that there are no extra steps.

There are still more steps than I am prepared to spend on ~200 infantry models (I remembered my Grave Guard as well). Especially when my only reward is to invalidate all my existing movement trays.

Isn't your reward being able to play TOW?

Not defending GW here, I think it's a bonehead move, but rebasing miniatures has always been a fact of life. We rebased for AoS, for Kings of War, for SAGA, etc. It is what it is.

Isn't it much easier to get something like this?



You also have the plus that you can go back playing whatever version of oldhammer you want in case you don't like TOW.

If they insist on rebasing I'm just skipping the whole thing. No worries.

GW have slowly driven me out of all of their games with this. I absolutely hate rebasing and have moved to games where base size is broadly irrelevant.