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 GaroRobe wrote:
Note the bases on the artillery

GW has been posting artillery base sizes for every army.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
Note the bases on the artillery

GW has been posting artillery base sizes for every army.

well at least they have seen fit to once and for all end that arguement

I’m watching the review videos of a channel someone posted a few pages back and I like what I see so far. I’m looking to mainly enjoy games with friends and play classic fantasy so for me it will be great.

Competitive wise we will see but for fantasy I’m personally more about having fun and hoping my opponent does too.

Big problem I have right now is I have no WHFB army anymore, and I dont' know which faction I am interested in :(

But that and it seems really weird they're delaying the releases here, so like if you don't have an army and are wanting let's say O&G or High Elves, what, you'll have to wait a few months for your army to get its models re-released, or else go to eBay and get ripped off or look for 3d prints (at which point why bother with GW stuff anyway, especially when so many of these are a decade or two old)? It seems really strange they didn't have all the main units at least ready to be re-released at once, so people doing armies not Bretonnia/TK and without an existing army can actually play. Makes me question just who this is aimed at: people with existing WHFB armies? new players?

Yes, let's just drop ~1000 new SKUs on every independent stockist on a single week.

Do you actually not understand how massive a prospect that is for GW much less anyone looking to carry the game?

I understand that delaying it just going to push people away from GW models in general, if they're told "sorry you have to wait a few months to play unless you kept you army from 10 years ago"

 Overread wrote:
For me I don't even know if its FOMO or Nostalgia. I never really wanted a knights in armour army way back when Brets were on sale. If anything they were the army I had some of the least interest in at the time as they didn't have many "fantasy" things in them. Almost no fantasy monsters or mounts and what few they had were taken in small numbers. They were almost the most "realistic" army of all the Old World with their knights, serfs, peasants and soforth.

Same.

Platuan4th wrote:Yes, let's just drop ~1000 new SKUs on every independent stockist on a single week.

Do you actually not understand how massive a prospect that is for GW much less anyone looking to carry the game?

Wayniac wrote:I understand that delaying it just going to push people away from GW models in general, if they're told "sorry you have to wait a few months to play unless you kept you army from 10 years ago"

The alternative is 3rd party stores having stocking issues for ages anyway because they'd not be able to justify ordering the entire game in one go; plus GW having huge storage costs; plus customers running out of money and time to justify buying more and more. So some armies might see insanely small sales simply because people run out of cash and the stock isn't moving for them, which could develop into armies getting entirely passed over and ignored (low sales; to low stocking; to lower sales to less investment etc...).

I'm very much in agreement that dropping the entire game would be neat, it would be a financial, logistical and marketing nightmare to handle.

Wayniac wrote:
I understand that delaying it just going to push people away from GW models in general, if they're told "sorry you have to wait a few months to play unless you kept you army from 10 years ago"

You can always proxy till stuff gets dropped that way you know what to buy when things are available and aren’t wasting money on models you don’t need. I’ve done that far too many times in my gaming career.

 nathan2004 wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
I understand that delaying it just going to push people away from GW models in general, if they're told "sorry you have to wait a few months to play unless you kept you army from 10 years ago"

You can always proxy till stuff gets dropped that way you know what to buy when things are available and aren’t wasting money on models you don’t neeId. I’ve done that far too many times in my gaming career.

I mean, I don't have a WHFB army at all anymore, and if I go the 3d print route there's no point in even bothering with GW b/c it's going to be cheaper/probably better quality than the old models they're putting back. Just feels odd that they're doing a delayed release for something that they seem to want to attract new people to, not just be there for the old grogs.

Staggering releases is how you keep a product line going. Releasing every single thing at once is a logistical nightmare and doesn't broker long-term spending.

Take TV shows as an example. Shows with a traditional release schedule (i.e. an episode a week) pull in higher viewing numbers over a longer period of time while the more "modern" approach (dump it all at once) has a spike in interest that then practically disappears overnight.

GW wants to keep interest going by releasing Bretonnia and TKs as the ultimate nostalgia opener and then releasing the other old factions over the following months. Certain factions can also still get a bunch of their models from the AoS range with just some base swaps *cough*Beastmen*cough*.
Once all the old factions have been done, we'll probably see a campaign book then it's onto the new stuff like Cathay or Kislev.
That's what HH has done so far, releasing Legion kits in year one with Solar Aux coming in year two.

 Gert wrote:
Staggering releases is how you keep a product line going. Releasing every single thing at once is a logistical nightmare and doesn't broker long-term spending.

Take TV shows as an example. Shows with a traditional release schedule (i.e. an episode a week) pull in higher viewing numbers over a longer period of time while the more "modern" approach (dump it all at once) has a spike in interest that then practically disappears overnight.

GW wants to keep interest going by releasing Bretonnia and TKs as the ultimate nostalgia opener and then releasing the other old factions over the following months. Certain factions can also still get a bunch of their models from the AoS range with just some base swaps *cough*Beastmen*cough*.
Once all the old factions have been done, we'll probably see a campaign book then it's onto the new stuff like Cathay or Kislev.
That's what HH has done so far, releasing Legion kits in year one with Solar Aux coming in year two.

A thing I find odd about this thread is that people in here don't seem to get this very fact.

Regarding the releases being staggered, they could at least do the core army boxes for the 9 races. Then do waves of the rest of a races units several months apart. That way it give people a chance to buy now and paint up what they have while they wait for the full model range to be released.

amazed the armies are the two they picked really, Bretonnia can be done easily with other model ranges, just sprinkle a few heros in and there are enough skeletons out there to do a basic skeleton army of the undead

makes it more surprising the models for these two initial boxes are not "all new" with either more fantastical elements or just really high quality sculpts that really sell the premium price tags

leopard wrote:
amazed the armies are the two they picked really, Bretonnia can be done easily with other model ranges, just sprinkle a few heros in and there are enough skeletons out there to do a basic skeleton army of the undead

makes it more surprising the models for these two initial boxes are not "all new" with either more fantastical elements or just really high quality sculpts that really sell the premium price tags

Designing new models, then producing the casts takes a lot of time and money. GW already have the old casts for all of WFB. So this way it is minimal effort for maximum gain.

 stonehorse wrote:

leopard wrote:
amazed the armies are the two they picked really, Bretonnia can be done easily with other model ranges, just sprinkle a few heros in and there are enough skeletons out there to do a basic skeleton army of the undead

makes it more surprising the models for these two initial boxes are not "all new" with either more fantastical elements or just really high quality sculpts that really sell the premium price tags

Designing new models, then producing the casts takes a lot of time and money. GW already have the old casts for all of WFB. So this way it is minimal effort for maximum gain.

for sure, but also maximises ways to avoid actually buying GW models, especially when they have other moulds they could use, I mean heck dig up Island of Blood and just use that with a few new bits, and at least its less easy to raid historical ranges

the other way would be more cut down army lists that only cover the models being re-released for now, which also discourages "alternative sourcing" to a level and perhaps could have kept the print costs down with initial lists?

either way, curious to see how many locally bother with this, local shop has bits for pre-order but not sure how much allocated

Wayniac wrote:

I mean, I don't have a WHFB army at all anymore, and if I go the 3d print route there's no point in even bothering with GW b/c it's going to be cheaper/probably better quality than the old models they're putting back. Just feels odd that they're doing a delayed release for something that they seem to want to attract new people to, not just be there for the old grogs.

In answer to your previous question, The Old World has been made with persuading existing rank'n'file players to return to the Warhammer brand. If they wanted new players then this would have launched with a 2-player launch box.

I don't think GW wanted to return to rank'n'file but their customers took their money elsewhere for their rules and models, and in retail you have to go where the money is. Thats why we had development coverage over the last few years, to reassure customers that another rank'n'file game is on the way, square-bases an'all.

 stonehorse wrote:
Regarding the releases being staggered, they could at least do the core army boxes for the 9 races. Then do waves of the rest of a races units several months apart. That way it give people a chance to buy now and paint up what they have while they wait for the full model range to be released.

With 9 factions in TOW that's 45 kits getting added to the range in a single go, at minimum with at least 9 new plastic models in the mix.

For comparison of other launch boxes, 40k 10th Ed was 16 new kits, AoS 3rd was 12, and HH2 was 5. More importantly, the kits that usually get added in a launch box are push-fit minis rather than the full article. That's not the case with TOW.

The make-or-break will be the length of time it takes for the other 7 factions to get at least an army box.

Dystopian Wars (heck the whole Spartan games roster) has had a similar issue. In the end if the game is good and the models popular it will survive a slow roll out.

Games or companies closing down and then restarting takes time. Warcradle are only now just about to release a 2nd game and they've not even touched on any of the Firestorm or Uncharted Seas material.


Yes GW are bigger than WC, but they still can't just throw a whole game onto the market like it was nothing.

It's a huge pain if the army/game you want is last on the list; but at the same time, as noted, slower steadier managed growth is always more sustainable and healthy over super fast expansion.

 Gert wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
Regarding the releases being staggered, they could at least do the core army boxes for the 9 races. Then do waves of the rest of a races units several months apart. That way it give people a chance to buy now and paint up what they have while they wait for the full model range to be released.

With 9 factions in TOW that's 45 kits getting added to the range in a single go, at minimum with at least 9 new plastic models in the mix.

For comparison of other launch boxes, 40k 10th Ed was 16 new kits, AoS 3rd was 12, and HH2 was 5. More importantly, the kits that usually get added in a launch box are push-fit minis rather than the full article. That's not the case with TOW.

The make-or-break will be the length of time it takes for the other 7 factions to get at least an army box.

Totally agree Gert. 45 kits and around double that in sprues. There are 18 odd sprues in the 2 core sets on pre order today. I just don't think GW have the capacity to have done that in any reasonable volume. We also have the complete x factor of not knowing if there was any repairs/refinement needed for the old moulds or the time and expense needed to create replacement/new moulds where needed.

even if GW could throw it all out, as noted by others that doesn't mean the retailers can or will carry it all, nor does it mean players have the cash for it

especially with Legions recently released I decided I could afford one or the other, and went with cute ickle tanks

 Sotahullu wrote:
Whoa,have been going through army lists and I am bit weirded out how old school it is.

Actual options. Options that may involve conversions.

Where are you seeing the army lists?

 Gert wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
Regarding the releases being staggered, they could at least do the core army boxes for the 9 races. Then do waves of the rest of a races units several months apart. That way it give people a chance to buy now and paint up what they have while they wait for the full model range to be released.

With 9 factions in TOW that's 45 kits getting added to the range in a single go, at minimum with at least 9 new plastic models in the mix.

For comparison of other launch boxes, 40k 10th Ed was 16 new kits, AoS 3rd was 12, and HH2 was 5. More importantly, the kits that usually get added in a launch box are push-fit minis rather than the full article. That's not the case with TOW.

The make-or-break will be the length of time it takes for the other 7 factions to get at least an army box.

No, it would be:

Rulebook,
Forces of Fantasy
Ravening Hordes
Then 9 starter sets.

So 12 things to add.

Edit.

Then add in the rest of the things for a race later on, spread them out to keep the game alive along enough.

This way, people can play straight away, as those starter sets are small forces. So can be used to whet people's appetite.

 GaroRobe wrote:
Here are some of the returning dwarf range. Note the bases on the artillery, and the returning metal engineers and runesmith (the plastic runesmith is still there, hopefully Burlok D is as well)


The bigger bases on the models looks off. They’ve got so much space between them

The change to base sizes really does piss me off, for a product aimed at getting old players back via a huge dose of nostalgia this is an odd move.

I don't get what the up side of it is?

Just don't forget Starter Sets are not single sprue products. Even if all the contents are plastic they typically come on several sprue unless they were part of a major edition launch.

The Old World stuff is a mix of old and new plastic sprues, each one is individual. That means a machine has to be set to print just that sprue, then all the others for the boxed set. So 1 boxed set might be several run cycles of a single machine or several machines running concurrently to build up stock for just 1 box.


So 9 starter sets is way more than just running 9 moulds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Tamereth wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
Here are some of the returning dwarf range. Note the bases on the artillery, and the returning metal engineers and runesmith (the plastic runesmith is still there, hopefully Burlok D is as well)


The bigger bases on the models looks off. They’ve got so much space between them

The change to base sizes really does piss me off, for a product aimed at getting old players back via a huge dose of nostalgia this is an odd move.

I don't get what the up side of it is?

In fairness as most units are on movement trays you can just size a tray to the right size and then adapt it to fit the old bases. A pain for leaders/heroes and monsters; plus a pain for any who moved to AoS.

But GW and bases are always at odds. I figure in part its because newer sculpts might end up being more elaborate and bigger and thus a larger base helps with that (some old stuff was very "stiff" in pose)

 Overread wrote:
Just don't forget Starter Sets are not single sprue products. Even if all the contents are plastic they typically come on several sprue unless they were part of a major edition launch.

The Old World stuff is a mix of old and new plastic sprues, each one is individual. That means a machine has to be set to print just that sprue, then all the others for the boxed set. So 1 boxed set might be several run cycles of a single machine or several machines running concurrently to build up stock for just 1 box.


So 9 starter sets is way more than just running 9 moulds.

Well yeah obviously... hence I didn’t say 9 new moulds.

Do we know the other 7 races are getting a new plastic? In the video reviews of the force lists, does it mention any new models? I haven't heard any talk of new things. As both Tomb Kings and Bretonnians had little to no plastic character models, it makes sense they get new ones.

So, the 7 other races starter sets will be made from old models which GW already have the moulds for... it would cost them peanuts to get them done. Think the box art/print would be the biggest cost for them.

Didn't 8th edition have very complex/specific tournament tweaks to rules and/or listbuilding to "fix" it anyway? Swedish comp was that it? Surely the same will be done for TOW.

 RustyNumber wrote:
Didn't 8th edition have very complex/specific tournament tweaks to rules and/or listbuilding to "fix" it anyway? Swedish comp was that it? Surely the same will be done for TOW.

None of which were official and ended up with every single community having their own set of comp rules meaning players that moved had to learn an entirely new set of additional rules.

 Prometheum5 wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
Well, I finally got in to the US webstore. Nothing left I want. But it looks like some stuff was just straight up never available on the US webstore at all. Comparing a search on the word "Bretonnia" between US and UK, we didn't get the mounted Yeomen (just the command), no Handmaiden, no Questing Knight on foot, no dice, and no combo pack of mounted and foot standard bearer.

Thanks so much for wasting my time, GW.

Well, you could have checked this before.

** These products have been delayed in the USA and Canada. Please note that while the regular Mounted Yeomen are delayed, the Command Squad will be available on schedule – they’re getting the lay of the land early.

Was that footnote added later? I don't recall seeing that when it first was posted.

It was not, nor was it posted on the preorder preview article on Sunday.

 Tamereth wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
Here are some of the returning dwarf range. Note the bases on the artillery, and the returning metal engineers and runesmith (the plastic runesmith is still there, hopefully Burlok D is as well)


The bigger bases on the models looks off. They’ve got so much space between them

The change to base sizes really does piss me off, for a product aimed at getting old players back via a huge dose of nostalgia this is an odd move.

I don't get what the up side of it is?

You can just ignore the new bases. The rules don't favor models with smaller bases anymore, so there's no significant advantage to be gained by using smaller bases. I have no intention of rebasing my armies if I take up TOW.