Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors

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**The Phazer**

Longstrider wrote:
The split seems to strange to me. Obviously they'll make whatever decisions they'll make for business and/or ego reasons, but we have:

1. Warriors of Chaos, who have both an old range in TOW and a new range of near-equivalents and replacements in AoS

2. Lizardmen, who have AoS replacements and new models but are legacy

3. Ogres, who have an old range and are in AoS

4. Beasts, who have an old range and fell out of AoS

I just can't really discern a pattern, but also it's not like GW needs to follow on or owes us explanations.

I think it was ultimately just a negotiation, but the agreement between Specialist Games Studio and the main studio wasn't just about the range, but also about what are going to be major AOS releases in the forseeable. Lizardmen got their big release, and Chaos Dwarves and Ogres are heavily rumoured to get refreshes this edition. Beasts weren't and the range didn't sell for AOS so it got dumped.

Chaos may have just been a compromise because the SPS felt they really couldn't have a launch that didn't include Chaos. People would have gone nuts.

It's why I think over time if there's a feeling that there's enough of a range and there's a few years after a major range refresh that we'll start to see many of the legacy factions creep back in to TOW. Lizardmen, Vampire Counts and Deamons really could just use their old ranges, even if nobody would really buy the old models (save for Deamonettes) over using the AOS equivalents. But that doesn't seem to be a problem for Chaos, or Night Goblins. I suspect Deamons might still have made the cut if it wasn't for the old range being entirely metal, which specialist games clearly still have an issue scaling up production for but that will become less of a problem as time goes on.

**Grail Seeker**

Haighus wrote:
Overread wrote:
Gimgamgoo wrote:
Manfred von Drakken wrote:
Even if it's in their own space, storing stuff that isn't selling costs money. They may not be actively paying for that space, but then they're not using that space for something else that could sell and make them money.

This would be true if the warehouse was full, but going by GW's Out of Stock issues, I guess the warehouse is quite empty.

If the Warehouse is empty because GW can't produce enough stock to keep things in stock then there'd be no big pallets full of unsold stuff because "GW can't keep things stocked fast enough." So it actually adds weight to the argument that there aren't big piles of stuff laying around.

Honestly the only reason they would have lots of stuff hanging around would be if the organisation of the warehouse has broken down and they don't know they've got it. Even if they did chances are they'd do warehouse clearing bundles like they did a while back when they were moving warehouses and just needed to clear what they had faster than normal for a short period.

Considering the stocking issues on multiple lines right now I'm confused why people think GW just has mountains of unsold stuff hanging around. Sure they have big production volume and will have big storage of stuff before sending it overseas in bulk; but they aren't (or at least sanity suggests they shouldn't) be sitting there hoarding models like some kind of model-addicted-dragon.

But again the warehouse won't be empty because its all stock moving through it. A constant churn that's enough to stop everything falling apart but isn't quite enough to overcome all the production demand they have right now.

The point is that storing old stock is only an opportunity cost if you have something else to put into that storage space. Obviously the warehouse isn't completely empty, but it may not be completely full and therefore storing some old stock might be feasible. Breaking all those boxes open to recycle the parts is a labour opportunity cost that could be used for something else if the old stock isn't currently in the way. Not saying this is happening, but it is feasible.

Also, some popular lines being out of stock doesn't mean everything is. Stuff isn't equally popular.

Isn't GW expanding their warehousing capabilities because of a lack of space?

Regardless, I can't say for sure if they have old inventory or not, but I am fairly certain there is a 0% chance GW doesn't have a small team dedicated to their logistics, and a 0% chance they don't utilize a inventory holding costs formula when deciding what to keep or not - which, unless there are far reaching plans, would rationally incentivize the warehouse staff to clear items no longer being sold. And if there isn't a someone managing GW's supply chain analytics in this way, shareholders should be up in arms.

**Platuan4th**

Cap'n Facebeard wrote:
So I'm just assuming the 'returning' Chaos Ogres are all the ones they couldn't sell the first time? Ugliest models they've ever made.

They're ugly but have a certain charm to them. I for one look forward to grabbing a set of the RnF ones cause I was only ever able to get the 3 command models.

**Just Tony**

No_Marines_Here wrote:I think those Chaos Warriors might be my favourite rank & file models ever. Poses specifically designed with the overall effect in mind and beautiful models individually. They also, importantly, look great from behind.

I'll die on the hill that the fanbase's insistence on action hero pose models was a detriment to WFB. Anyone who has actually moved or fought in a formation like that understands perfectly why synchronized movements are essential. If I wasn't already arms deep in a Chaos Warriors army, then I'd have snapped up that battalion set in a heartbeat. As it stands now, I only want chariots and Marauders.

**Undead_Love-Machine**

Platuan4th wrote:
Cap'n Facebeard wrote:
So I'm just assuming the 'returning' Chaos Ogres are all the ones they couldn't sell the first time? Ugliest models they've ever made.

They're ugly but have a certain charm to them. I for one look forward to grabbing a set of the RnF ones cause I was only ever able to get the 3 command models.

Yeah, they do have a lot of character even if the sculpts aren't technically great.

I had a very faint hope of seeing the FW Chaos Ogre that was available for one Gamesday, I wish that I hadn't sold mine

**Daba**

I take it forsaken were... forsaken?

**chaos0xomega**

Overread wrote:
Plus, as OW proves, moulds can be put back into production and resume generating an income. They are an investment that you keep.

In fact about the only time you see firms dumping moulds is either if they go through a massive quality upgrade and the old ones are just really bad; or if they are hitting very hard times or fully shutting down a model line entirely

Most commonly it's when the molds are for licensed ip amd the license expires. In the modern day licensing agreements for such product lines typically stipulate the molds/production tooling must be destroyed or rendered unusable at the termination of the license.

**Overread**

chaos0xomega wrote:
Overread wrote:
Plus, as OW proves, moulds can be put back into production and resume generating an income. They are an investment that you keep.

In fact about the only time you see firms dumping moulds is either if they go through a massive quality upgrade and the old ones are just really bad; or if they are hitting very hard times or fully shutting down a model line entirely

Most commonly it's when the molds are for licensed ip amd the license expires. In the modern day licensing agreements for such product lines typically stipulate the molds/production tooling must be destroyed or rendered unusable at the termination of the license.

That's a very good point! Yes that's a great example of where moulds would be destroyed.
Or the contract specifies that the moulds must go back to the IP holding firm, who then likely having no setup for using them, would destroy/dispose of them (or store them in some warehouse and forget about them entirely)

**lord_blackfang**

This "old stock" gak is conspiracy theory territory at this point. Remember when Kill Team 2018 was previewed and folks were screaming it's GW's way of unloading Skitarii and Neophyte overstock, and then they came as colored sprues? And then the same story repeated with each kill team terrain box?

**StudentOfEtherium**

my feeling is that if there's any truth to the matter, it's GW bringing back old kits into new box sets to make the numbers look better, like taking a kit that undersold and putting it in a box set so you can claim x part of that box's revenue as for the kit... but even that much is very, very unproven

**The Phazer**

StudentOfEtherium wrote:
my feeling is that if there's any truth to the matter, it's GW bringing back old kits into new box sets to make the numbers look better, like taking a kit that undersold and putting it in a box set so you can claim x part of that box's revenue as for the kit... but even that much is very, very unproven

Yeah, for accounting purposes they might stick a kit that has failed to amortise it's production cost by not selling enough into a box, so it gets a share of that revenue to make it a profitable project. But that's still a new production run.

We know GW *do* destroy stuff if it's not going to sell. We saw them have piles of stock outside to be destroyed that time someone flew a drone over GW HQ.

**Overread**

The only time I know for certain that they destroyed stock was when they had a whole load contaminated with sewage from a leak up the road from them. That's where all those Eldar Collectors Coins went (and which, along with a bunch of other stuff, were then stolen from the workplace and sold on ebay).

There IS logic in destroying a gross overstock of a product instead of flooding the market with it. Warmachine had that issue when they sold off loads and loads of it to clear their warehouse and overstock. It floods the market with product and cheaper product and then after that big flooding you get a lull.

Also GW have been smart to not fall too far into the discount trap. I know in 3D printing if you want stuff to sell it HAS to be on sale and at a decent percentage; otherwise people wait. Indeed its another reason some superstores are "always in a sale" because they've basically had so many so often that customers just wait till the next one.

**MaxT**

What in the heck does the minutiae of GWs stock warehousing have to do with TOW again?

**Shakalooloo**

MaxT wrote:
What in the heck does the minutiae of GWs stock warehousing have to do with TOW again?

People are wondering what's with the slow rollout.

**Thargrim**

I was looking forward to Chaos Warriors coming back but it really looks like they're doing the bare minimum here, not even any new resin sculpts like a new sorceror or bsb on foot. And it looks like they aren't bringing the old mark of chaos video game sorcerer. Would've been nice to see that sculpt again, even if it was made to order.

Btw, does anyone know if the heads of the AoS chaos warriors fit on these old plastic sculpts that are returning? Might not be a bad idea to grab a few bits here and there to add variety to the unit.

**Shrapnelsmile**

So there will not be an official model soon for the WoC beast handler, or whatever it is called, the book is not near me at the moment.

**GaroRobe**

Shrapnelsmile wrote:
So there will not be an official model soon for the WoC beast handler, or whatever it is called, the book is not near me at the moment.

Maybe they'll release a FW model eventually. I'm planning on just using the AOS Bloodstoker

**Shadow Walker**

GaroRobe wrote:
I'm planning on just using the AOS Bloodstoker

Good idea, he should blend easily with the rest.

**Kid_Kyoto**

I always found the 2000s Chaos warriors good for 40k Imperials, they stand up straight and with a head swap they're not too chaosy.

For all their faults I liked the 1990s hunched over chaos warriors for chaos. They looked twisted and mutated and like they had made a very bad life decision, which to me is what GW chaos is all about. I'd love to see an update on them some time.

**KidCthulhu**

I'm using all my hunched 1990's plastics as halberdiers (since I got the metal halberd arms before they added the awful plastic halberds to the refreshed sprue). I might use mine for chosen and add in bits from the old mutation sprue while I'm at it.

**Commodus Leitdorf**

I dont know why people are even considering this a slow rollout to begin with. There's a new edition of AoS, that was always going to take up a huge chunk of the year. Yeah stuff is delayed a bit and it sucks. I've been waiting for Empire to finally get put out as I've been waiting to pick up more Pistoliers ever since they were culled from the AoS.

**nathan2004**

Thargrim wrote:
I was looking forward to Chaos Warriors coming back but it really looks like they're doing the bare minimum here, not even any new resin sculpts like a new sorceror or bsb on foot. And it looks like they aren't bringing the old mark of chaos video game sorcerer. Would've been nice to see that sculpt again, even if it was made to order.

Btw, does anyone know if the heads of the AoS chaos warriors fit on these old plastic sculpts that are returning? Might not be a bad idea to grab a few bits here and there to add variety to the unit.

That's an excellent question...I'm curious if they do or not either.

**Shakalooloo**

Thargrim wrote:
Btw, does anyone know if the heads of the AoS chaos warriors fit on these old plastic sculpts that are returning? Might not be a bad idea to grab a few bits here and there to add variety to the unit.

They do, but the 'old' heads are quite a bit bigger, so the warriors may look a little pinhead-y. The bad kind of pinhead-y.

**Longstrider**

The Phazer wrote:

I think it was ultimately just a negotiation, but the agreement between Specialist Games Studio and the main studio wasn't just about the range, but also about what are going to be major AOS releases in the forseeable. Lizardmen got their big release, and Chaos Dwarves and Ogres are heavily rumoured to get refreshes this edition. Beasts weren't and the range didn't sell for AOS so it got dumped.

Chaos may have just been a compromise because the SPS felt they really couldn't have a launch that didn't include Chaos. People would have gone nuts.

It's why I think over time if there's a feeling that there's enough of a range and there's a few years after a major range refresh that we'll start to see many of the legacy factions creep back in to TOW. Lizardmen, Vampire Counts and Deamons really could just use their old ranges, even if nobody would really buy the old models (save for Deamonettes) over using the AOS equivalents. But that doesn't seem to be a problem for Chaos, or Night Goblins. I suspect Deamons might still have made the cut if it wasn't for the old range being entirely metal, which specialist games clearly still have an issue scaling up production for but that will become less of a problem as time goes on.

Yeah, all of that is not unreasonable. And realistically I suspect there's much more nostalgia for 6E Chaos plastics than there are for 6E Lizardmen. But yeah, potentially TOW could be a relegation league of sorts - if the Skink fliers, skinks, and the big dinos get AoSified the old ones could go to TOW. But we're also already there with old Vampire Counts already, I think? IF "the scope of the project has grown" translates to "more legacy factions will go mainstream" I could see VCs being one of the first back in (or Dark Elves once they drop from Cities and the basic Witch Elves get a new kit).

**chaos0xomega**

If that was ever on the table then Lizardmen, VC and Skaven would have already been slated for TOW and labeled core from the getgo most likely. There's just a handful of kits in each of those factions that aren't already AOSified or in the process of being redone.

**CaptainKlang**

DaveC wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/08/11/sunday-preview-don-your-hunting-rig-and-enter-hive-secundus/

There's the terrain announcement plus the missing Orc Shaman and some more Dwarves - going to be expensive!

Somewhat interested in those hills. Any grogs here remember them?

**RustyNumber**

While they look okay I recall them being a bit naff for actually using the slope for units. As much as they look less realistic I do see why home made foamboard 1-inch-mesa style hills get used prominently.

**GrosseSax**

Is there an ongoing narrative campaign going on with TOW yet or is it still just a static setting?

**chaos0xomega**

For now it's mostly static - the initial narrative is supposed to be based in the border princes in IC 2076 but they haven't yet really explored it.

**bong264**

GrosseSax wrote:
Is there an ongoing narrative campaign going on with TOW yet or is it still just a static setting?

There's rumors/ wishful thinking that it might be an eventual lead up to the great chaos war but that's a lot of time in between. If it's true maybe we can get a Magnus the Pious model out of it