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Angronsrosycheeks wrote:
nice order master, pretty sure he's based on a piece of old artwork from WHRP?

Nah, based on the Knights Panther cover for White Dwarf 83 by John Blanche

Apparently there's a pun in there somewhere, something about Panther Panzers...

Angronsrosycheeks wrote:
AoS is a few months away from being a decade old, it has solved that problem almost two editions ago.

What problem do you think AOS has solved?

The one mentioned that the realms are endless and have no points of interest. 2nd edition was basically a soft reboot of the worldbuilding and did away with the "everything is magic all the time" aspect. The realms are functionally endless, the areas fit for mortal habitation aren't.

Nah, based on the Knights Panther cover for White Dwarf 83 by John Blanche

That's the one!
I only saw it in black and white in some later publication, it looks even better in color.

Angronsrosycheeks wrote:
The one mentioned that the realms are endless and have no points of interest. 2nd edition was basically a soft reboot of the worldbuilding and did away with the "everything is magic all the time" aspect. The realms are functionally endless, the areas fit for mortal habitation aren't.

The areas fit for mortal habitation are still, for each realm, BIGGER than the Old World entire map by many times over. GW have produced maps of the core regions but they are sketchy things. Again you can have whole nations get wiped out in AoS and its a drop in the ocean.

They basically made an entire setting of 8 realms each the size of the Imperium of Man. It's just so mindbogglingly huge its hard to really put everything together.


In Old World if Nuln came under attack or was lost you could really feel it as having a dramatic impact on the setting. Meanwhile the Boarder Princes you knew could come and go all the time with "no name" leaders; but also that their kingdoms were small. That they were in a very specific region of the world and contained. It was an eb and flow that was within easy imagination.

Again AoS dials everything to 12, forget 11 everything is on 12. Some of that is really utterly cool and amazing; but so much of it is just hard to work out how it all - you know "works" as a setting.
Heck one of my favourite books in AoS is Pestilens (not the codex the book) which features whole cities built on the backs of VAST beasts walking over insanely huge landscapes. That's freaking epic and amazing and awesome. If it were in Old World it would be a major point of the setting/races/factions and region. There'd be artwork, stories and more.

In AoS its within that 1 book and then never really touched on again because its jumping to a region where mountains form out of fields in a day or to a metal realm with quicksilverlackes and storms of rust or to a Shadow realm so shaded and dark that its like living in an eternal London Smog. They are all really cool ideas, but because there's so much going on in so many places and all on the epic scale there isn't time to dig into them.

In a way the setting is like a hyperactive child after they've just woken up and eaten a bucket of sweets - its bouncing off the walls energetic and erratic and hyperactive

In Old World, if Nuln was attacked, nothing changed because Nuln was not allowed to fall. In practice Nuln had all the strategic value of a piece of empty desert in Shyish in AoS, because nothing could change in "current day" Old World as depicted in Warhammer army books (until the End Times and we all know how that was received even before it blew up the world).

I don't think there is a point in rehashing the discussion again- AoS added reasons why strategic locations are strategic and how humans and elves live in a universe full of weird magic over the course of its lifespan. If the reasons given are enough for you is down to personal preference purely.

Angronsrosycheeks wrote:
In Old World, if Nuln was attacked, nothing changed because Nuln was not allowed to fall. In practice Nuln had all the strategic value of a piece of empty desert in Shyish in AoS, because nothing could change in "current day" Old World as depicted in Warhammer army books (until the End Times and we all know how that was received even before it blew up the world).

I don't think there is a point in rehashing the discussion again- AoS added reasons why strategic locations are strategic and how humans and elves live in a universe full of weird magic over the course of its lifespan. If the reasons given are enough for you is down to personal preference purely.

He's right you know

Angronsrosycheeks wrote:
In Old World, if Nuln was attacked, nothing changed because Nuln was not allowed to fall.

It was sacked and destroyed at least two times (Grom and Gorbad).

I'm not really familiar with the lore to the Old World, is this a reboot to WHFB, a continuation (as if there was no End Times), or something else altogether?

Same old Old World, but a few hundred years before Karl Franz’s rein. Reign? You’d think I’d remember the difference by now.

But it’s leading up to The Great War Against Chaos, where Magnus The Pious would emerge triumphant.

And presumably, the Old World will, going forward, focus us in on historical events.

Angronsrosycheeks wrote:
In Old World, if Nuln was attacked, nothing changed because Nuln was not allowed to fall. In practice Nuln had all the strategic value of a piece of empty desert in Shyish in AoS, because nothing could change in "current day" Old World as depicted in Warhammer army books (until the End Times and we all know how that was received even before it blew up the world).

I don't think there is a point in rehashing the discussion again- AoS added reasons why strategic locations are strategic and how humans and elves live in a universe full of weird magic over the course of its lifespan. If the reasons given are enough for you is down to personal preference purely.

I think the issue I have is that things in AOS are relatively new and the realms are so unexplored that when things do happen, it still doesn't feel impactful. Anvilgard fell to Morathi and became Har Kuron, but unless you had an Anvilgard colorscheme force, nothing really happened. The actual important locations, the Eightpoints, Hammerhal, etc., will likely be the new Nulns. They may come close to being conquered, but are unlikely to have any real changes to the status quo.

AOS having a moving timeline also means that it feels like so much happens in a short timeframe; the stormcast are released and end the Age of Chaos, the Necroquake happened and Nighthaunt swarmed the realms, only for the Rite of Life to happen, which free Kragnos only for him to teleport away, and now the Skaven are out en masse. So many realm-shaking events, but I couldn't tell you whether this happened over decades or centuries or mere years apart. We've got human characters that pop up in certain events that don't really age, so maybe it wasn't that long. I get that it's a fantasy setting, but does everyone have magic elixirs to extend their lives, or amulets, or are actually undead things like the Pontifex?

Crazy question but is Archaon just an empire knight at this point ie a normal human lol?

 nathan2004 wrote:
Crazy question but is Archaon just an empire knight at this point ie a normal human lol?

You mean Diederick Kastner? No, he was born after the Great War against Chaos.

Angronsrosycheeks wrote:
In Old World, if Nuln was attacked, nothing changed because Nuln was not allowed to fall. In practice Nuln had all the strategic value of a piece of empty desert in Shyish in AoS, because nothing could change in "current day" Old World as depicted in Warhammer army books (until the End Times and we all know how that was received even before it blew up the world).

I mean, this is going to be true in The Old World setting, as well. Any city or region that has something noteworthy happen to it, has to mesh up with the original Warhammer "future", or things get wonky.

Any setting is going to fall prey to this. You could have a rocking wargame set in Faerun of the Forgotten Realms, but everyone knows nothing apocalyptic is going to happen to Waterdeep, or Baldur's Gate, etc.

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
Crazy question but is Archaon just an empire knight at this point ie a normal human lol?

You mean Diederick Kastner? No, he was born after the Great War against Chaos.

But his father that was possessed by Belakor to birth him might be out and about.

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
Crazy question but is Archaon just an empire knight at this point ie a normal human lol?

You mean Diederick Kastner? No, he was born after the Great War against Chaos.

But his father that was possessed by Belakor to birth him might be out and about.

I think his parents lived in a fishing village?

Angronsrosycheeks wrote:
In Old World, if Nuln was attacked, nothing changed because Nuln was not allowed to fall. In practice Nuln had all the strategic value of a piece of empty desert in Shyish in AoS, because nothing could change in "current day" Old World as depicted in Warhammer army books (until the End Times and we all know how that was received even before it blew up the world).

You discount it's worth despite it being the source of the much vaunted titular oil? Heresy indeed...

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
Crazy question but is Archaon just an empire knight at this point ie a normal human lol?

You mean Diederick Kastner? No, he was born after the Great War against Chaos.

But his father that was possessed by Belakor to birth him might be out and about.

I think his parents lived in a fishing village?

His mother did. His father's home is... less certain.

Rise above petty rivalries and defend the Empire with the Grand Master of the Knights Panther

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
Crazy question but is Archaon just an empire knight at this point ie a normal human lol?

You mean Diederick Kastner? No, he was born after the Great War against Chaos.

But his father that was possessed by Belakor to birth him might be out and about.

I think his parents lived in a fishing village?

His mother did. His father's home is... less certain.

This. His father was a Norscan Raider possessed by Belakor. He wasn't born of a happy home.

beast_gts wrote:
Rise above petty rivalries and defend the Empire with the Grand Master of the Knights Panther

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

It's generally lovely but I wish so much that GW didn't insist on throwing acres of ornamentation on the horse armour for Empire models. Just makes the whole thing a mess visually.

That's a very busy model...

beast_gts wrote:
Rise above petty rivalries and defend the Empire with the Grand Master of the Knights Panther

Spoiler:

considering the point has come up, it's probably not a bad idea to include the size comparison the the Empire knights:



It's a pretty model for sure.

 Platuan4th wrote:

Spoiler:

 BorderCountess wrote:

 Mr Morden wrote:

 Platuan4th wrote:

 Dryaktylus wrote:

 nathan2004 wrote:
Crazy question but is Archaon just an empire knight at this point ie a normal human lol?

You mean Diederick Kastner? No, he was born after the Great War against Chaos.

But his father that was possessed by Belakor to birth him might be out and about.

I think his parents lived in a fishing village?

His mother did. His father's home is... less certain.

This. His father was a Norscan Raider possessed by Belakor. He wasn't born of a happy home.

It was never going to be a happy home if it wasn't his parents who named their son Archaon the Everchosen, Lord of the End Times.

 Geifer wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
Rise above petty rivalries and defend the Empire with the Grand Master of the Knights Panther

Spoiler:

considering the point has come up, it's probably not a bad idea to include the size comparison the the Empire knights:

Spoiler:

It's a pretty model for sure.

To be fair, it will match up scale-wise with the (relatively) more recent Empire range from 7th/8th period. It's the lack of update for the 6th edition knights themselves (and their much older steeds) that's going to make them stick out (or not as the case may be as they're dwarfed by the giants around them). That comparison is going to be even more pronounced, as it is in the article, next to the previous Panther Grandmaster given that model is from even earlier.

Better photos definitely help it. I also think it would benefit a lot from a 360 view. Shame GW don't do those any more.

 Geifer wrote:


It was never going to be a happy home if it wasn't his parents who named their son Archaon the Everchosen, Lord of the End Times.

I mean, his dad did name him the Everchosen. Literally did the deed to create the Everchosen and even crowned him in his true form.

 The Phazer wrote:
Better photos definitely help it. I also think it would benefit a lot from a 360 view. Shame GW don't do those any more.

It does. Just not during preorder week. Or even very soon after that. I guess it’s less of a priority for them now.
Presumably because it makes stereoscopic 3D modelling trivial for people who want to create a 3D print.

Love the new Grand Master - hoping for some sort of 'regular Knights Panther' upscaling/upgrade options too...

I can't unsee how the leopard hide somehow goes under the jaw.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
I can't unsee how the leopard hide somehow goes under the jaw.

It has fur there too, and some people don't waste it.