Warhammer - The Old World news and rumors

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**His Master's Voice**

chaos0xomega wrote:
And yet, they are legacy.

Yeah, because they're pure resin.

GW isn't going to publish a faction comprised entirely of 15+, extremely expensive resin kits in a line that is clearly meant to be plastic based, to the point they were willing to put TK skellies back on the shelves, shameful as that was.

Does Cathay even have any resin models previewed at this point?

**Fayric**

His Master's Voice wrote:

Does Cathay even have any resin models previewed at this point?

Imagine the lantern hot air baloon beeing resin

**Just Tony**

chaos0xomega wrote:
A month before the current daemon prince kit was first previewed, i commented on a warcom facebook post about i dont remember what that the then-current daemon kit was crap and it would be great if they could redo it. They responded saying there was no plans to on the horizon or something like that. A month later, poof.

"GW said no plans so it won't happen," followed shortly by "Here's an express example on how my first statement was proven wrong."

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Fayric wrote:
His Master's Voice wrote:

Does Cathay even have any resin models previewed at this point?

Imagine the lantern hot air baloon beeing resin

Cathay reveals so far confirmed all plastic.

They may have said the entire Cathay range will be plastic, but I don’t want to risk misquoting, or misinterpreting.

**Platuan4th**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Fayric wrote:
His Master's Voice wrote:

Does Cathay even have any resin models previewed at this point?

Imagine the lantern hot air baloon beeing resin

Cathay reveals so far confirmed all plastic.

They may have said the entire Cathay range will be plastic, but I don’t want to risk misquoting, or misinterpreting.

On the stream they said that everything shown was plastic, so no real indication of whether or not that means no resin entirely.

**Overread**

Honestly for a new army I'd expect resin only on named character models/unique models that you'd only take one of.

Everything else plastic.

However as its an army game it might well be all plastic much like how they are rolling out all plastic slowly across HH and other specialist games. Only Necromunda is really holding onto it in a big way and that makes sense as a lot of their niche models are very optional like hangers-on for gangs. A good few of which you wouldn't even take on the table unless your home base is under attack

**Platuan4th**

Overread wrote:
Honestly for a new army I'd expect resin only on named character models/unique models that you'd only take one of.

If Cathay gets any resin, I too forsee it only being Named Characters and maybe another generic character or two that's ostensibly tied to their Armies of Infamy like the Chrace Captain for High Elves.

**chaos0xomega**

His Master's Voice wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
And yet, they are legacy.

Yeah, because they're pure resin.

GW isn't going to publish a faction comprised entirely of 15+, extremely expensive resin kits in a line that is clearly meant to be plastic based, to the point they were willing to put TK skellies back on the shelves, shameful as that was.

Does Cathay even have any resin models previewed at this point?

You just described several factions of Horus Heresy, though theres fewer of them now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Just Tony wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
A month before the current daemon prince kit was first previewed, i commented on a warcom facebook post about i dont remember what that the then-current daemon kit was crap and it would be great if they could redo it. They responded saying there was no plans to on the horizon or something like that. A month later, poof.

"GW said no plans so it won't happen," followed shortly by "Here's an express example on how my first statement was proven wrong."

They didnt say it wouldnt happen, they said nothing on the horizon.

What i didnt say previously though was the second half of that sentence, which was "keep an eye on warhammer community for more news in the future in csse things change" or something to that effect, which is actually the opposite of what youre trying to spin it as.

**Dysartes**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Same with adamant refusal to allow prints or recasts in many events.

Honestly? I'm not going to begrudge a TO saying "No" to recasts. 3D prints are a little trickier, depending on if they're a new sculpt for a unit, or based on a scan of the original and then printed.

**Just Tony**

chaos0xomega wrote:
His Master's Voice wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
And yet, they are legacy.

Yeah, because they're pure resin.

GW isn't going to publish a faction comprised entirely of 15+, extremely expensive resin kits in a line that is clearly meant to be plastic based, to the point they were willing to put TK skellies back on the shelves, shameful as that was.

Does Cathay even have any resin models previewed at this point?

You just described several factions of Horus Heresy, though theres fewer of them now.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Just Tony wrote:
chaos0xomega wrote:
A month before the current daemon prince kit was first previewed, i commented on a warcom facebook post about i dont remember what that the then-current daemon kit was crap and it would be great if they could redo it. They responded saying there was no plans to on the horizon or something like that. A month later, poof.

"GW said no plans so it won't happen," followed shortly by "Here's an express example on how my first statement was proven wrong."

They didnt say it wouldnt happen, they said nothing on the horizon.

What i didnt say previously though was the second half of that sentence, which was "keep an eye on warhammer community for more news in the future in csse things change" or something to that effect, which is actually the opposite of what youre trying to spin it as.

I'm "spinning" it as GW's track record is "Nothing is set in stone despite press releases." You seem to simply be a contrarian to whatever is posted, even your own posts.

**MaxT**

GW bods writing articles & working their social media haven't got a clue what's releasing 2 weeks later, never mind years later

**Vulcan**

ccs wrote:
Vulcan wrote:

Doesn't mean I don't miss playing WFB, though. Especially as I look over some 12,000 points of minis I can use in TOW... and three times that many points I can't.

You have 12k pts of WHFB stuff that doesn't have Old World stats??

If you miss playing WHFB.... Why don't you do something about that?
There's other WHFB players out there, seek them out!

They're all playing TOW with the new hotness... or AoS, or KoW. No one wants to play WFB anymore.

**Just Tony**

Vulcan wrote:
ccs wrote:
Vulcan wrote:

Doesn't mean I don't miss playing WFB, though. Especially as I look over some 12,000 points of minis I can use in TOW... and three times that many points I can't.

You have 12k pts of WHFB stuff that doesn't have Old World stats??

If you miss playing WHFB.... Why don't you do something about that?
There's other WHFB players out there, seek them out!

They're all playing TOW with the new hotness... or AoS, or KoW. No one wants to play WFB anymore.

I have a group in one town comprised of no less than 8 players who play 6th, so not exactly accurate. Sometimes it takes a touch of effort, but I bet you could find some...

**ccs**

Overread wrote:
Yeah but those are Age of Sigmar armies and GW is VERY militant on splitting the two lines entirely.

Instead of putting square and circle bases in each box or doing what Conquest do and put rounds on the model with square slot-in adaptors; GW are instead making them two fully separate lines.

So if they brought Lizardmen back they wouldn't get their new AoS models - they'd get their previous generation Old World models just like Slaves to Darkness have.

Or they'd do what they did with Beastmen - anger AoS fans by pulling the army from one game to shove into another. Honestly I was surprised they did it once and I don't think they could do it a second time without AoS collapsing

The only AoS Beastmen players that're angry are those who (come June? July?) refuse to use Legends....

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Vulcan wrote:
ccs wrote:
Vulcan wrote:

Doesn't mean I don't miss playing WFB, though. Especially as I look over some 12,000 points of minis I can use in TOW... and three times that many points I can't.

You have 12k pts of WHFB stuff that doesn't have Old World stats??

If you miss playing WHFB.... Why don't you do something about that?
There's other WHFB players out there, seek them out!

They're all playing TOW with the new hotness... or AoS, or KoW. No one wants to play WFB anymore.

You do realize that ToW is just the next version of WHFB, right?
It's the same old same old. New edition, new books to buy, some assorted rules changes. Changes: few +/a few -/some of no real importance....
This has been happening every few years since I began playing way back in WHFB 3e.
The only thing really different this time is that GW called it something else & made the covers blue.

**Coenus Scaldingus**

bobthe4th wrote:
JWh85 wrote:
Oh, don't get me wrong. I know corporate speak and also know GW's spiel: I've been a GW customer since the early '90's. WH community has been reverting on itself on more than one occasion. However, they have been uncommonly upfront about what they will do in the forseeable future. I absolutely agree that they'll probably bring back at least some legacy armies in the future . But they've planned out the game for at least some time yet. I don't understand why people were upset that Cathay released before their legacy army; Kislev will probably be next. It'll be a good while before we see at least some legacy armies returning I think.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/GIi2Rgcm/total-war-warhammer-3-reinforcements-arrive-en-masse/

24 February 2024 (just over a year ago) an article on War Com about Total Warhammer 3 states:

“Fans of Warhammer: The Old World should note that there aren’t any current plans to bring Kislev or Grand Cathay to the tabletop for the foreseeable future.”

That was clearly untrue, unless GW considers foreseeable to be 12 months which is obviously nonsense.

MaxT wrote:GW bods writing articles & working their social media haven't got a clue what's releasing 2 weeks later, never mind years later

The main thing I continue to find weird is that the article in question, about TW:WH3 things, just didn't need to say anything about the TOW plans to begin with. It was quite an active decision to make a (misleading) statement about the Cathay plans at this stage.

**Fayric**

How long does it take for GW to get a new army on the board these days?
I suppose for Kathay they had already done most of the design work and even how the army would work.

**Mr_Rose**

Yeah, Cathay is kinda exceptional because they did 90% of the design work before TOW was really confirmed as a thing (the old comment about them doing “an 8th edition army book” for the faction) as an aide to the TWW3 development team. Even the 3D sculpting would have been done around then, assuming Sega let them use the assets.

So with all the background done, most of the design work, and half the sculpting, they absolutely could have made the decision to go for a full physical release a few months ago. Get the ‘eavy metal team on painting some 3D printed prototypes, run the STLs over to the machine shop, find a slot in the queue at the printers, done. By the time the release date is announced in six months, everything should be ready.

**Dryaktylus**

Overread wrote:

However as its an army game it might well be all plastic much like how they are rolling out all plastic slowly across HH and other specialist games. Only Necromunda is really holding onto it in a big way and that makes sense as a lot of their niche models are very optional like hangers-on for gangs. A good few of which you wouldn't even take on the table unless your home base is under attack

It's not just Necromunda. Blood Bowl Star players and most characters and faction specific characters for HH will still be in resin for years to come. And I suppose they'll just printing them in the not too far future. Plastic injection molding isn't that cost-effective for smaller runs like seldom sold models or limited ones. Sure, GW can make a profit even then - especially when I look at the price for Maleneth (uh... it's not even a good model) or Hell's Last (or other, non-limited characters). But that will change, unless the models are well recieved, wanted and really good.

**kodos**

Fayric wrote:
How long does it take for GW to get a new army on the board these days?
I suppose for Kathay they had already done most of the design work and even how the army would work.

them already having the 3D renders and artworks would speed things up, but also for a release everything would be finished at least 6 months in advance
So I would guess if we see Cathay released in 2025, they would have started around the time TOW was released or shortly before that
if they come later they started later

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Also, we can’t rule out the stuff that ended up in Total War didn’t start off as notes, sketches and possibly even mock-up greens/conversions from any point in WHFB’s history.

**Mr Morden**

The other obvious faction for GW to release is Vampire Coast - they have all the lore and units in TW based on the old conversions, people will not have the models as they were never produced just converted and it would not clash with AOS as sadly they never followed up on the lore of vampirates in that universe either

**Lord Damocles**

Mr Morden wrote:
The other obvious faction for GW to release is Vampire Coast

Do they exist at the time Old World is set?

**Mr Morden**

Lord Damocles wrote:
Mr Morden wrote:
The other obvious faction for GW to release is Vampire Coast

Do they exist at the time Old World is set?

Yep

They have been around for more than a thousand years before date OW is set in

In 876 IC a Norse longship boarded a Imperial trade ship. The Norse stole a precious antique coffin, not knowing that the Vampire Luthor Harkon resided inside. As the Norse vessel was washed to the shores of Lustria, they were all drowned or starved to death. Although the crew were not already dead but undead, and accompanied the Vampire when he made landfall and started to conquer his new Undead empire. With his Zombie hordes he started to conquer his part of the jungle and loot the pyramid cities of the Lizardmen. After he was defeated in 930 IC in the Battle of the Eclipse by the Kroxigor Nakai near to the temple city of Oxyl, he started to create vast hordes of Zombie Pirates to execute revenge on the Lizardmen. In 1011 IC he allied with the Syreens and wrecked countless ships at the rocky shores. Any drowned sailor became a new undead servant to him. Then in 1127 IC he began to raise sunken ships and terrorized the seas of the Warhammer world with his ghost ships with undead crews and his hordes grew even more. Then in 1351 IC he marched with his amassed hordes south, slaughtered the Skinks that spotted his undead army, and looted and destroyed the Lizardmen City of Axlotl. Although the Lizardmen were able to save some of the most potent artefacts he still took many magic items back into his shady realm. In 1492, many nations and races sent expeditions to Lustria after Marco Colombo‎‎ returned to the Old World in a ship laden down with gold. Luthor dispatched emmisaries to many of these, offering his aid against the Lizardmen in the form of gilded Ebony Skulls which allow the user to call forth undead seamen.

https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Vampire_Coast

**nathan2004**

Aesthetically would they just be a blend of dark elves and vampires?

**Mr Morden**

nathan2004 wrote:
Aesthetically would they just be a blend of dark elves and vampires?

They are pretty unique - Zombies with guns, pirate vampires and Wights, lots and lots of guns and cannons including those mounted on monsters and Necrofex colossus- they really like guns

The minis line could be as awesome as the one for Cathay

**chaos0xomega**

Point of order: Total warhammer 3d art assets are not suitable for tabletop gamong purposes. Everything being produced for tabletop is being sculpted from the ground up by GWs team for that purpose. Those who have printed ripped models from the game can tell you that they are simultaneously covered in umreproduceable details as well as absent details entirely that are filled in by texture shaders (scales, hair, feathers, and fur, for example, are not sculpted detail and are in fact smooth surfaces with texture art applied)

**nathan2004**

Mr Morden wrote:
nathan2004 wrote:
Aesthetically would they just be a blend of dark elves and vampires?

They are pretty unique - Zombies with guns, pirate vampires and Wights, lots and lots of guns and cannons including those mounted on monsters and Necrofex colossus- they really like guns

The minis line could be as awesome as the one for Cathay

Thanks that's a very different take on vampires then I've ever seen in a wargame or movie honestly (that I can think of off the top of my head).

**kodos**

And it is there since 4th Edition

**lord_blackfang**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also, we can’t rule out the stuff that ended up in Total War didn’t start off as notes, sketches and possibly even mock-up greens/conversions from any point in WHFB’s history.

Considering all the ancillary material GW did in the past - Mordheim, Lustria, Dogs of War etc... I'd be very surprised if the studio didn't have a pretty complete picture of Cathay looks and lore by the late 90s. Their work for Total War was getting it all into a format that an outside team that didn't know it by heart could use as a reference, and I'm pretty sure they stated as much at some point in the design blogs.

As for the upcoming models, they are certainly all done from scratch, casting technology has advanced so much that any sculpting done 10+ years ago would have been useless.

And I'd be all for the Vampire Coast, TOW desperately needs an infusion of non-human factions asap.

**SnotlingPimpWagon**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Also, we can’t rule out the stuff that ended up in Total War didn’t start off as notes, sketches and possibly even mock-up greens/conversions from any point in WHFB’s history.

Considering all the ancillary material GW did in the past - Mordheim, Lustria, Dogs of War etc... I'd be very surprised if the studio didn't have a pretty complete picture of Cathay looks and lore by the late 90s. Their work for Total War was getting it all into a format that an outside team that didn't know it by heart could use as a reference, and I'm pretty sure they stated as much at some point in the design blogs.

As for the upcoming models, they are certainly all done from scratch, casting technology has advanced so much that any sculpting done 10+ years ago would have been useless.

And I'd be all for the Vampire Coast, TOW desperately needs an infusion of non-human factions asap.

I wouldn’t be so sure about the outline of the Cathay aesthetic being solved in the late 90s already. As far as I know, there was 1 official published artwork of anything Cathay (a dude with a sword) and that concept differs from what we got out of the GW and CA collaboration. (The old artwork was way cooler and far less generic than the Chinese fantasy, that we got with TW3) there is also some vague smell of the new Cathay look bearing corporate touches of trying to interest Chinese markets (like with 3 Kingdoms) and playing it safe in regards to avoiding wilder concepts (making it more familiar for the public that has seen any sort of fantasy with a stereotypical Chinese aesthetic) or having a non chaos faction, that is evil-ish.

And I couldn’t agree more - ToW needs something that isn’t humans for the sake of variety if nothing else. Vampirates would be very cool. Or maybe something completely new? Like the rumour from the very distant past of some insectoids the likes of which we can see on the belt of the ogre Firebelly model