Azrael vaults over the Rubicon Primaris...

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**xttz**

Tsagualsa wrote:
JSG wrote:
The naysayers are deliberately conflating Valrak's own conjecture with the actual rumour he was given. He assumed it was female after seeing the trailer. The rumour he was given was named daemon prince.

I do not like Valrak as a person or as a concept, like, at all, but at this point you can't deny that at least some of the leaks he's waffling on about have to be fed to him by a pretty accurate source. He gets less accurate when he adds his own spin or conclusions, but something is definitely there.

I think the issue with Valrak is his tendancy to put extra spin or embellishments onto accurate rumours. It's clear that he does have at least some reliable sources, but the version we get is likely quite different to what he's actually been told.
A good example was in January when he broke the news of the Tyranid codex 2 weeks before GW announced anything. That came with assurances about "multiple new models" including the parasite and a box of updated gaunts. The latter of course turned out to be the oops-all-old-gaunts combat patrol.

But of course the more interesting rumours get more clicks on his channel...

**Agamemnon2**

I think the hip plates will look better not painted as a part of the main armor under his robes, but as some kind of semi-ornamental addition attached to his belt. Them being the exact same shade as the stuff he wears under the robe cheats the eye into trying to join them up, I think.

**Gert**

GaroRobe wrote:
I love that they didn't change the Lion Helm.

But can someone explain why the helmet isn't MK3? The forgeworld lion helmet is mk3 (which obviously came out decades after Azrael, but still), and it's not like he was around by the time mk 7.

Now here is the interesting part about all this. It is the Lion Helm, not The Lion's Helm. It's said to have been worn by the Primarch but that's it. Said to be, not was. It suits the narrative of the Dark Angels to have their Supreme Grand Master wear a relic associated with the Primarch to give the allusion of a line of succession.

**VictorVonTzeentch**

I like everything except the bolter, it looks like trash. The Magazine placement is awful

**Agamemnon2**

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
I like everything except the bolter, it looks like trash. The Magazine placement is awful

I'd like it better if it was another kind of magazine. Instead of the sticky-out standard type, I reckon a side-mounted box magazine like some of the bolt rifle variants have would look better.

**H.B.M.C.**

Mentlegen324 wrote:
It's not wrong when the only part that turned out to be correct was "Named character" that has something Daemonic. It's not a female character, it's not Dark Mechanicum, and it's not a Daemon Prince.

There's a fairly even chance that the people seeing these things in advance do just that - see them, devoid of any real context - so a model like Vashtorr, without the context of what he is, does appear to be a Daemon Prince.

Given that he turned out to be something quite unique by 40k standards - an unaligned Daemon intent on becoming a 5th Chaos God - doesn't make the person with the rumours wrong. If you saw that model out of context, you'd assume Daemon Prince.

So stop being so damned persnickety.

**Tsagualsa**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
It's not wrong when the only part that turned out to be correct was "Named character" that has something Daemonic. It's not a female character, it's not Dark Mechanicum, and it's not a Daemon Prince.
There's a fairly even chance that the people seeing these things in advance do just that - see them, devoid of any real context - so a model like Vashtorr, without the context of what he is, does appear to be a Daemon Prince.

Given that he turned out to be something quite unique by 40k standards - an unaligned Daemon intent on becoming a 5th Chaos God - doesn't make the person with the rumours wrong. If you saw that model out of context, you'd assume Daemon Prince.

So stop being so damned persnickety.

Even with context your first couple of guesses would be something like 'Dark Mechanicum Demon Prince' or sth. like that.

**Mentlegen324**

Dudeface wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
Irbis wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
OK captain pedantic, its a big named Daemon, its easy to see how that was a mistaken identity and is honestly near enough

Not, it was not ""easy"" because the model looks much more like daemon engines than a prince (or the old FW semi-mechanical herald). Also, any leaker with a brain would inform him that no, it's not a prince or anything mortal. It's only ""easy"" mistake to make when you're clueless clown without good source trying to guess from a stolen photo someone who had nothing to do with you posted earlier and you rushed to claim "scoop" usual V style.

Also, let me remind you he also claimed said demon is female/dark mechanicum (again, clueless guess from lithe silhouette/hammer) and that Ark will get army box that will be shown on reveal that was a month ago, both claims even more laughably wrong than prince issue but somehow quietly ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative, eh?

Its lithe like a Slaaneshi daemon, which could be construed as female, and it's Mechanicum as so far its fluff has to do with machines. So nah, you're wrong.

It's not wrong when the only part that turned out to be correct was "Named character" that has something Daemonic. It's not a female character, it's not Dark Mechanicum, and it's not a Daemon Prince.

If the person who saw did not know exactly it was, then saying exactly what it is was just an absurd thing to do, it should have just been "Named Daemon character" - but no, they gave specifics. The specifics of the rumour were incorrect and that only takes way from the credibility, regardless of if you can skew it so it "kinda" seems right.

Jfc it doesn't look like any daemon engine out there at present, it's very humanoid in appearance and is clearly not dedicated to a particular god when all we see are God dedicated models for daemons. Yet still, you expect someone seeing this likely 2nd hand not to go "huh, a big humanoid shaped daemon that isn't overtly god aligned, looks like a cool daemon prince"?

To be fair the voice in the initial trailer also sounds fairly gender neutral, if not female, so I suspect that might be the leak point.

I'd expect them to say it was a "big humanoid shaped daemon that isn't overtly god aligned", not go "Don't know what that is, so it's specifically a female Dark Mechanicum Daemon Prince"

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
It's not wrong when the only part that turned out to be correct was "Named character" that has something Daemonic. It's not a female character, it's not Dark Mechanicum, and it's not a Daemon Prince.
There's a fairly even chance that the people seeing these things in advance do just that - see them, devoid of any real context - so a model like Vashtorr, without the context of what he is, does appear to be a Daemon Prince.

Given that he turned out to be something quite unique by 40k standards - an unaligned Daemon intent on becoming a 5th Chaos God - doesn't make the person with the rumours wrong. If you saw that model out of context, you'd assume Daemon Prince.

So stop being so damned persnickety.

It does make them wrong when it isn't what they rumoured. If they don't know what it is, don't just give specifics as to what it is.

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

Yeah. I mean, if I witness a crime and am able to give a rough description (say, above average height, light brown hair, green tracksuit), and that’s used to check CCTV? If the actual person is Exactly Average Height, Dark Brown Hair and a Turquoise Tracksuit, despite my description being off, I wouldn’t be charged with perverting the course of justice now, would I?

**Dudeface**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Yeah. I mean, if I witness a crime and am able to give a rough description (say, above average height, light brown hair, green tracksuit), and that’s used to check CCTV? If the actual person is Exactly Average Height, Dark Brown Hair and a Turquoise Tracksuit, despite my description being off, I wouldn’t be charged with perverting the course of justice now, would I?

Unfortunately 40k weirdos transcend legal definitions and boundaries, unless you can provide cited verbatim information with a named, recognised source for a "rumour", ain't good enough.

**EviscerationPlague**

Mentlegen324 wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
Irbis wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
OK captain pedantic, its a big named Daemon, its easy to see how that was a mistaken identity and is honestly near enough

Not, it was not ""easy"" because the model looks much more like daemon engines than a prince (or the old FW semi-mechanical herald). Also, any leaker with a brain would inform him that no, it's not a prince or anything mortal. It's only ""easy"" mistake to make when you're clueless clown without good source trying to guess from a stolen photo someone who had nothing to do with you posted earlier and you rushed to claim "scoop" usual V style.

Also, let me remind you he also claimed said demon is female/dark mechanicum (again, clueless guess from lithe silhouette/hammer) and that Ark will get army box that will be shown on reveal that was a month ago, both claims even more laughably wrong than prince issue but somehow quietly ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative, eh?

Its lithe like a Slaaneshi daemon, which could be construed as female, and it's Mechanicum as so far its fluff has to do with machines. So nah, you're wrong.

It's not wrong when the only part that turned out to be correct was "Named character" that has something Daemonic. It's not a female character, it's not Dark Mechanicum, and it's not a Daemon Prince.

If the person who saw did not know exactly it was, then saying exactly what it is was just an absurd thing to do, it should have just been "Named Daemon character" - but no, they gave specifics. The specifics of the rumour were incorrect and that only takes way from the credibility, regardless of if you can skew it so it "kinda" seems right.

"Vashtorr the Arkifane is a major new character for Warhammer 40,000 – he’s an enigmatic daemonic mechanic, a fiendish forge-master who specialises in corrupt machines and insane innovation. Unsurprisingly, Warpsmiths and the Dark Mechanicum think he’s great." straight from the WarCom article already implies DarkMech, so you're wrong on that count. Also you still have yet to tackle it being pretty lithe and feminine like a Slaaneshi daemon. Lastly, the size, based on the base, isn't going to be anything bigger than Belakor or anything like that.

Just take the L, dude.

**Mentlegen324**

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
Irbis wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
OK captain pedantic, its a big named Daemon, its easy to see how that was a mistaken identity and is honestly near enough

Not, it was not ""easy"" because the model looks much more like daemon engines than a prince (or the old FW semi-mechanical herald). Also, any leaker with a brain would inform him that no, it's not a prince or anything mortal. It's only ""easy"" mistake to make when you're clueless clown without good source trying to guess from a stolen photo someone who had nothing to do with you posted earlier and you rushed to claim "scoop" usual V style.

Also, let me remind you he also claimed said demon is female/dark mechanicum (again, clueless guess from lithe silhouette/hammer) and that Ark will get army box that will be shown on reveal that was a month ago, both claims even more laughably wrong than prince issue but somehow quietly ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative, eh?

Its lithe like a Slaaneshi daemon, which could be construed as female, and it's Mechanicum as so far its fluff has to do with machines. So nah, you're wrong.

It's not wrong when the only part that turned out to be correct was "Named character" that has something Daemonic. It's not a female character, it's not Dark Mechanicum, and it's not a Daemon Prince.

If the person who saw did not know exactly it was, then saying exactly what it is was just an absurd thing to do, it should have just been "Named Daemon character" - but no, they gave specifics. The specifics of the rumour were incorrect and that only takes way from the credibility, regardless of if you can skew it so it "kinda" seems right.

"Vashtorr the Arkifane is a major new character for Warhammer 40,000 – he’s an enigmatic daemonic mechanic, a fiendish forge-master who specialises in corrupt machines and insane innovation. Unsurprisingly, Warpsmiths and the Dark Mechanicum think he’s great." straight from the WarCom article already implies DarkMech, so you're wrong on that count. Also you still have yet to tackle it being pretty lithe and feminine like a Slaaneshi daemon. Lastly, the size, based on the base, isn't going to be anything bigger than Belakor or anything like that.

Just take the L, dude.

Again, that does not change that it is not what the rumour specifically said it was.

**cole1114**

This forum is hilariously toxic on the best of days, but man, arguing over what the definition of a rumor is might take the cake.

**Albertorius**

I find it hilarious how all the rubiconed characters survive the process and not a single one buys the farm, given how "dangerous" it was supposed to be...

**ProfSrlojohn**

VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
I like everything except the bolter, it looks like trash. The Magazine placement is awful

To be fair, have you seen the original?

**Tsagualsa**

ProfSrlojohn wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
I like everything except the bolter, it looks like trash. The Magazine placement is awful

To be fair, have you seen the original?

Truly the darkest secret

**Dudeface**

cole1114 wrote:
This forum is hilariously toxic on the best of days, but man, arguing over what the definition of a rumor is might take the cake.

Better than discussing the leaked profile though, right?

**Tygre**

ProfSrlojohn wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
I like everything except the bolter, it looks like trash. The Magazine placement is awful

To be fair, have you seen the original?

The previous one (shown above) looks like a photoshop fail.

At first glance the new one looks at least feasible.

**Haighus**

The magazine placement looks fine, except he is holding a right-handed weapon in his left hand. This could obviously be a temporary pose, but it looks a little odd. Makes me wonder if the model would look better with the weapons swapped round.

Many effective historical firearms had the magazine on the left of the gun like that, such as the Sten or FG-42.

**Lord Damocles**

Remember how dangerous the Rubicon Primaris is everyone!

**Roll Three Dice**

I love almost everything about that model, which is a first for a Primaris re-design. I suspect it’s partly because the robe covers up those feth awful soupbowl kneepads, but full credit to the sculptor for nailing the character of the original whilst upscaling it so well.
The one bit I’m not sold on is the combi-weapon: I’m not really interested in technical accuracy in my gratuitous space fantasy wargame, but the original looked miles better than the newer ‘magazine stuck on the side’ design imo, but ymmv.

Edit: also, new-ish user here, is it normal for this place to have a rumour thread derailed for multiple pages to argue semantics in an unrelated topic? Because I can get that on Reddit.

**xttz**

Could be fake, but as far as I know the image at the bottom of the page was only partially shown in the reveal article

**JohnnyHell**

I miss the ridiculous bullpup design! Sticky-outy-mag makes me sad!

**Mad Doc Grotsnik**

So on the piccie above.

I’m not seeing anything saying Azrael must be your Warlord.

Is that normal for such a high ranking Astartes? Because if not, might that be another string to the rumour bow re The Lion’s return?

**BorderCountess**

Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
So on the piccie above.

I’m not seeing anything saying Azrael must be your Warlord.

Is that normal for such a high ranking Astartes? Because if not, might that be another string to the rumour bow re The Lion’s return?

As far as I can tell, the only ones that have that stipulation are Primarchs and Abaddon.

**EviscerationPlague**

Oh yay, another D3 weapon.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mentlegen324 wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
Irbis wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
OK captain pedantic, its a big named Daemon, its easy to see how that was a mistaken identity and is honestly near enough

Not, it was not ""easy"" because the model looks much more like daemon engines than a prince (or the old FW semi-mechanical herald). Also, any leaker with a brain would inform him that no, it's not a prince or anything mortal. It's only ""easy"" mistake to make when you're clueless clown without good source trying to guess from a stolen photo someone who had nothing to do with you posted earlier and you rushed to claim "scoop" usual V style.

Also, let me remind you he also claimed said demon is female/dark mechanicum (again, clueless guess from lithe silhouette/hammer) and that Ark will get army box that will be shown on reveal that was a month ago, both claims even more laughably wrong than prince issue but somehow quietly ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative, eh?

Its lithe like a Slaaneshi daemon, which could be construed as female, and it's Mechanicum as so far its fluff has to do with machines. So nah, you're wrong.

It's not wrong when the only part that turned out to be correct was "Named character" that has something Daemonic. It's not a female character, it's not Dark Mechanicum, and it's not a Daemon Prince.

If the person who saw did not know exactly it was, then saying exactly what it is was just an absurd thing to do, it should have just been "Named Daemon character" - but no, they gave specifics. The specifics of the rumour were incorrect and that only takes way from the credibility, regardless of if you can skew it so it "kinda" seems right.

"Vashtorr the Arkifane is a major new character for Warhammer 40,000 – he’s an enigmatic daemonic mechanic, a fiendish forge-master who specialises in corrupt machines and insane innovation. Unsurprisingly, Warpsmiths and the Dark Mechanicum think he’s great." straight from the WarCom article already implies DarkMech, so you're wrong on that count. Also you still have yet to tackle it being pretty lithe and feminine like a Slaaneshi daemon. Lastly, the size, based on the base, isn't going to be anything bigger than Belakor or anything like that.

Just take the L, dude.

Again, that does not change that it is not what the rumour specifically said it was.

It was literally associated with the DarkMech in that WarCom article.

Seriously, just take the L.

**ccs**

Roll Three Dice wrote:

Edit: also, new-ish user here, is it normal for this place to have a rumour thread derailed for multiple pages to argue semantics in an unrelated topic? Because I can get that on Reddit.

Yes.
Another favorite side trek is going down memory lane as 20-30 year old rules from 5+ editions ago are rehashed.

**Sasori**

Roll Three Dice wrote:
I love almost everything about that model, which is a first for a Primaris re-design. I suspect it’s partly because the robe covers up those feth awful soupbowl kneepads, but full credit to the sculptor for nailing the character of the original whilst upscaling it so well.
The one bit I’m not sold on is the combi-weapon: I’m not really interested in technical accuracy in my gratuitous space fantasy wargame, but the original looked miles better than the newer ‘magazine stuck on the side’ design imo, but ymmv.

Edit: also, new-ish user here, is it normal for this place to have a rumour thread derailed for multiple pages to argue semantics in an unrelated topic? Because I can get that on Reddit.

Yep. You'll also get constant negativity that will derail threads. There is a reason most reasonable discussions have moved to faction based discords at this point and this place is fairly dead compared to how it used to be.

As for the Azreal leak, with that bottom pic being new it looks pretty real.

**AllSeeingSkink**

Tygre wrote:
ProfSrlojohn wrote:
VictorVonTzeentch wrote:
I like everything except the bolter, it looks like trash. The Magazine placement is awful

To be fair, have you seen the original?

The previous one (shown above) looks like a photoshop fail.

At first glance the new one looks at least feasible.

I could believe it had some crazy feed mechanism, but the lack of an ejection port is a bit disturbing.

**Mentlegen324**

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Oh yay, another D3 weapon.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Mentlegen324 wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
Mentlegen324 wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:
Irbis wrote:
Dudeface wrote:
OK captain pedantic, its a big named Daemon, its easy to see how that was a mistaken identity and is honestly near enough

Not, it was not ""easy"" because the model looks much more like daemon engines than a prince (or the old FW semi-mechanical herald). Also, any leaker with a brain would inform him that no, it's not a prince or anything mortal. It's only ""easy"" mistake to make when you're clueless clown without good source trying to guess from a stolen photo someone who had nothing to do with you posted earlier and you rushed to claim "scoop" usual V style.

Also, let me remind you he also claimed said demon is female/dark mechanicum (again, clueless guess from lithe silhouette/hammer) and that Ark will get army box that will be shown on reveal that was a month ago, both claims even more laughably wrong than prince issue but somehow quietly ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative, eh?

Its lithe like a Slaaneshi daemon, which could be construed as female, and it's Mechanicum as so far its fluff has to do with machines. So nah, you're wrong.

It's not wrong when the only part that turned out to be correct was "Named character" that has something Daemonic. It's not a female character, it's not Dark Mechanicum, and it's not a Daemon Prince.

If the person who saw did not know exactly it was, then saying exactly what it is was just an absurd thing to do, it should have just been "Named Daemon character" - but no, they gave specifics. The specifics of the rumour were incorrect and that only takes way from the credibility, regardless of if you can skew it so it "kinda" seems right.

"Vashtorr the Arkifane is a major new character for Warhammer 40,000 – he’s an enigmatic daemonic mechanic, a fiendish forge-master who specialises in corrupt machines and insane innovation. Unsurprisingly, Warpsmiths and the Dark Mechanicum think he’s great." straight from the WarCom article already implies DarkMech, so you're wrong on that count. Also you still have yet to tackle it being pretty lithe and feminine like a Slaaneshi daemon. Lastly, the size, based on the base, isn't going to be anything bigger than Belakor or anything like that.

Just take the L, dude.

Again, that does not change that it is not what the rumour specifically said it was.

It was literally associated with the DarkMech in that WarCom article.

Seriously, just take the L.

Again, If the rumour was that they're specifically Dark Mechanicum, then if they are not specifically Dark Mechanicum that then part of the rumour is wrong.. The Dark Mechanicum liking them is not the same thing as them being Dark Mechanicum.

If they did not know that's what the character actually was, then they should not have said that was what it was specifically and should have been vaguer and/or described the appearance instead. Guessing the specifics and getting it wrong doesn't add much credibility.