Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
Just to repeat the Valrak rumours from a couple months back:

Dante
Azrael
Farsight
Named Daemon Prince
And the edition is then supposed to wrap up with the return of the Lion. Again, take them for what they are, as I always say, just because I trust the source doesn't mean you have to.

We have 2/4 now.

1/4, Vashtorr is not a Daemon Prince.

OK captain pedantic, its a big named Daemon, its easy to see how that was a mistaken identity and is honestly near enough.

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
1/4, Vashtorr is not a Daemon Prince.

It was easy to assume he was a DP based on looks alone.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:
1/4, Vashtorr is not a Daemon Prince.

It was easy to assume he was a DP based on looks alone.

If someone wasn't sure of them being a Daemon Prince or not, then they shouldn't have stipulated that they're specifically a Daemon Prince.

Mentlegen324 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


We have 2/4 now.

1/4, Vashtorr is not a Daemon Prince.

But if someone just saw the model and name it wouldn't be unusual to mistake him for one

EviscerationPlague wrote:
3/4 I'd wager. Doesn't the machine looking Daemon Prince for the Arks stuff count?

We got Azrael and Vashtoor for the Daemon Prince so two but with the Lion it should be 2/5

 Matrindur wrote:

Mentlegen324 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:


We have 2/4 now.

1/4, Vashtorr is not a Daemon Prince.

But if someone just saw the model and name it wouldn't be unusual to mistake him for one

EviscerationPlague wrote:
3/4 I'd wager. Doesn't the machine looking Daemon Prince for the Arks stuff count?

We got Azrael and Vashtoor for the Daemon Prince so two but with the Lion it should be 2/5

Well we already have Farsight, which is a pretty darn modern model. Wasn't that released only a couple years ago?

Farsight's resin.

Shadowsun is the one who got a glow-up.

As an aside:

A Daemonic forgemaster from the Forge of Souls, Vashtorr is mostly a neutral player in the Great Game and constructs weapons for any of the Chaos Gods. Vashtorr was created from technological innovation and experimentation, and has gained power from events in the Materium such as the rise of the Necrons, the Cursed Founding, and creation of the Primaris Space Marines. However, Vashtorr is not content with his status and wishes to become a full Chaos God in and of itself. To that end, he has aided Abaddon the Despoiler in the creation of the Arks of Omen.

Vashtorr is a Daemon, not Dark Mechanicum.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Well we already have Farsight, which is a pretty darn modern model. Wasn't that released only a couple years ago?

I think you are mixing him with Shadowsun, Farsight is still a resin model

A great looking model that retains the classic aesthetic while incorporating the Primaris scale. I think the designer(s) showed restraint while also using the advances in mini design that are now available.

It’s a great rendition of the classic pose, but I can’t help but feel that something new could have been done. I understand the power of nostalgia though, and surely there is no right answer to that conundrum.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
What's interesting, to me at least, is that the Lion Helm is still a Mk.VII helmet

Which is comically stupid because it's supposed to be either primarch's own relic or a smaller copy of it, depending on tale. They really should have retconned it to Mk IV, both because it would be much more historically accurate and because Mk IV looks better and fits Mk X well...

Though, funnily enough, the helmet has Mk X earpieces and the slanted covers above them, sooo, yeah

robbienw wrote:
He’s nice, looks very close to the original, doesn’t look particularly Primaris. Like Mephiston and the BT characters. Good to see they are heading away from the Mk10 aethsetic with characters at least.

Well, yeah, if you exclude arms, legs, forearm and hip plates, boots, chest, waist, backpack, half of helmet, gorget, belly plate, primaris style heraldic plate and shoulderpads, gun, belt relic and earpiece, yup, there is literally nothing primaris in there

Dudeface wrote:
We have 2/4 now

More like -1/4 because Vash is not a demon prince and even a complete idiot could ""predict"" the two remaining big chapters GW missed will get their resin characters upgraded, sooo...

It's just as accurate as my totally-not-obvious ""rumor"" from last week GW will release 28 mm base model before end of the year, and look, Squigboss is here!

 Irbis wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
We have 2/4 now

More like -1/4 because Vash is not a demon prince and even a complete idiot could ""predict"" the two remaining big chapters GW missed will get their resin characters upgraded, sooo...

It's just as accurate as my totally-not-obvious ""rumor"" from last week GW will release 28 mm base model before end of the year, and look, Squigboss is here!

Yes, because at the time we were expecting a BA and DA release wave without having seen arks of omen or any info about it. Its also like those 2 chapters only have 1 finecast character.

If you're going to reign with false indignant superiority, please do it from a position of strength. Its Christmas, be less of an ass.

Dudeface wrote:
OK captain pedantic, its a big named Daemon, its easy to see how that was a mistaken identity and is honestly near enough

Not, it was not ""easy"" because the model looks much more like daemon engines than a prince (or the old FW semi-mechanical herald). Also, any leaker with a brain would inform him that no, it's not a prince or anything mortal. It's only ""easy"" mistake to make when you're clueless clown without good source trying to guess from a stolen photo someone who had nothing to do with you posted earlier and you rushed to claim "scoop" usual V style.

Also, let me remind you he also claimed said demon is female/dark mechanicum (again, clueless guess from lithe silhouette/hammer) and that Ark will get army box that will be shown on reveal that was a month ago, both claims even more laughably wrong than prince issue but somehow quietly ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative, eh?

 Irbis wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
OK captain pedantic, its a big named Daemon, its easy to see how that was a mistaken identity and is honestly near enough

Not, it was not ""easy"" because the model looks much more like daemon engines than a prince (or the old FW semi-mechanical herald). Also, any leaker with a brain would inform him that no, it's not a prince or anything mortal. It's only ""easy"" mistake to make when you're clueless clown without good source trying to guess from a stolen photo someone who had nothing to do with you posted earlier and you rushed to claim "scoop" usual V style.

Also, let me remind you he also claimed said demon is female/dark mechanicum (again, clueless guess from lithe silhouette/hammer) and that Ark will get army box that will be shown on reveal that was a month ago, both claims even more laughably wrong than prince issue but somehow quietly ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative, eh?

NURSE! He's loose again!

A genuinely excellent sculpt, both by itself and as an update to the 1996 Azrael.

 Irbis wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
OK captain pedantic, its a big named Daemon, its easy to see how that was a mistaken identity and is honestly near enough

Not, it was not ""easy"" because the model looks much more like daemon engines than a prince (or the old FW semi-mechanical herald). Also, any leaker with a brain would inform him that no, it's not a prince or anything mortal. It's only ""easy"" mistake to make when you're clueless clown without good source trying to guess from a stolen photo someone who had nothing to do with you posted earlier and you rushed to claim "scoop" usual V style.

Also, let me remind you he also claimed said demon is female/dark mechanicum (again, clueless guess from lithe silhouette/hammer) and that Ark will get army box that will be shown on reveal that was a month ago, both claims even more laughably wrong than prince issue but somehow quietly ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative, eh?

Santa give you a lump of coal today, eh?

Great primarisation of a legacy character. Can't wait to see Dante.

 Irbis wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
OK captain pedantic, its a big named Daemon, its easy to see how that was a mistaken identity and is honestly near enough

Not, it was not ""easy"" because the model looks much more like daemon engines than a prince (or the old FW semi-mechanical herald). Also, any leaker with a brain would inform him that no, it's not a prince or anything mortal. It's only ""easy"" mistake to make when you're clueless clown without good source trying to guess from a stolen photo someone who had nothing to do with you posted earlier and you rushed to claim "scoop" usual V style.

Also, let me remind you he also claimed said demon is female/dark mechanicum (again, clueless guess from lithe silhouette/hammer) and that Ark will get army box that will be shown on reveal that was a month ago, both claims even more laughably wrong than prince issue but somehow quietly ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative, eh?

I love seeing you freak out over Val. It's pathological with you.

Wow, this is a nu-marine I actually like. Glad to see them keeping (most) of the details I liked about the original. I'll miss the bullpup combi-weapon, but the helmet & Watcher options make up for it.

 Irbis wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
OK captain pedantic, its a big named Daemon, its easy to see how that was a mistaken identity and is honestly near enough

Not, it was not ""easy"" because the model looks much more like daemon engines than a prince (or the old FW semi-mechanical herald). Also, any leaker with a brain would inform him that no, it's not a prince or anything mortal. It's only ""easy"" mistake to make when you're clueless clown without good source trying to guess from a stolen photo someone who had nothing to do with you posted earlier and you rushed to claim "scoop" usual V style.

Also, let me remind you he also claimed said demon is female/dark mechanicum (again, clueless guess from lithe silhouette/hammer) and that Ark will get army box that will be shown on reveal that was a month ago, both claims even more laughably wrong than prince issue but somehow quietly ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative, eh?

Its lithe like a Slaaneshi daemon, which could be construed as female, and it's Mechanicum as so far its fluff has to do with machines. So nah, you're wrong.

I love that they didn't change the Lion Helm.

But can someone explain why the helmet isn't MK3? The forgeworld lion helmet is mk3 (which obviously came out decades after Azrael, but still), and it's not like he was around by the time mk 7.

It's not really a helmet the Lion wore. Same as Calgar's gauntlets and Dante's death mask (though that could have been scaled down, still not a direct cast of Sang's face). At best it's a helmet that was a part of the Lions personal armoury. Maybe a gift from someone who'd never seen a primarch trying to curry favour with the vaunted lord of the first.

Originally it was supposed to be ambiguous but that died with the HH books.

... kind of just want to snatch the little guy on ebay. I love him.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
OK captain pedantic, its a big named Daemon, its easy to see how that was a mistaken identity and is honestly near enough

Not, it was not ""easy"" because the model looks much more like daemon engines than a prince (or the old FW semi-mechanical herald). Also, any leaker with a brain would inform him that no, it's not a prince or anything mortal. It's only ""easy"" mistake to make when you're clueless clown without good source trying to guess from a stolen photo someone who had nothing to do with you posted earlier and you rushed to claim "scoop" usual V style.

Also, let me remind you he also claimed said demon is female/dark mechanicum (again, clueless guess from lithe silhouette/hammer) and that Ark will get army box that will be shown on reveal that was a month ago, both claims even more laughably wrong than prince issue but somehow quietly ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative, eh?

Its lithe like a Slaaneshi daemon, which could be construed as female, and it's Mechanicum as so far its fluff has to do with machines. So nah, you're wrong.

It's not wrong when the only part that turned out to be correct was "Named character" that has something Daemonic. It's not a female character, it's not Dark Mechanicum, and it's not a Daemon Prince.

If the person who saw did not know exactly it was, then saying exactly what it is was just an absurd thing to do, it should have just been "Named Daemon character" - but no, they gave specifics. The specifics of the rumour were incorrect and that only takes way from the credibility, regardless of if you can skew it so it "kinda" seems right.

 GaroRobe wrote:
I love that they didn't change the Lion Helm.

But can someone explain why the helmet isn't MK3? The forgeworld lion helmet is mk3 (which obviously came out decades after Azrael, but still), and it's not like he was around by the time mk 7.

Likely rebuilt over the years. Like Trigger’s Broom. Known in less cultured circles as Theseus’s Paradox.

It's gonna be a long six months for some on this forum.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
I love that they didn't change the Lion Helm.

But can someone explain why the helmet isn't MK3? The forgeworld lion helmet is mk3 (which obviously came out decades after Azrael, but still), and it's not like he was around by the time mk 7.

Likely rebuilt over the years. Like Trigger’s Broom. Known in less cultured circles as Theseus’s Paradox.

I've always enjoyed Terry Pratchett's take on it:

"This, milord, is my family's axe. We have owned it for almost nine hundred years, see. Of course, sometimes it needed a new blade. And sometimes it has required a new handle, new designs on the metalwork, a little refreshing of the ornamentation... but is this not the nine hundred-year-old axe of my family? And because it has changed gently over time, it is still a pretty good axe, y'know. Pretty good."

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
OK captain pedantic, its a big named Daemon, its easy to see how that was a mistaken identity and is honestly near enough

Not, it was not ""easy"" because the model looks much more like daemon engines than a prince (or the old FW semi-mechanical herald). Also, any leaker with a brain would inform him that no, it's not a prince or anything mortal. It's only ""easy"" mistake to make when you're clueless clown without good source trying to guess from a stolen photo someone who had nothing to do with you posted earlier and you rushed to claim "scoop" usual V style.

Also, let me remind you he also claimed said demon is female/dark mechanicum (again, clueless guess from lithe silhouette/hammer) and that Ark will get army box that will be shown on reveal that was a month ago, both claims even more laughably wrong than prince issue but somehow quietly ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative, eh?

Its lithe like a Slaaneshi daemon, which could be construed as female, and it's Mechanicum as so far its fluff has to do with machines. So nah, you're wrong.

It's not wrong when the only part that turned out to be correct was "Named character" that has something Daemonic. It's not a female character, it's not Dark Mechanicum, and it's not a Daemon Prince.

If the person who saw did not know exactly it was, then saying exactly what it is was just an absurd thing to do, it should have just been "Named Daemon character" - but no, they gave specifics. The specifics of the rumour were incorrect and that only takes way from the credibility, regardless of if you can skew it so it "kinda" seems right.

Jfc it doesn't look like any daemon engine out there at present, it's very humanoid in appearance and is clearly not dedicated to a particular god when all we see are God dedicated models for daemons. Yet still, you expect someone seeing this likely 2nd hand not to go "huh, a big humanoid shaped daemon that isn't overtly god aligned, looks like a cool daemon prince"?

To be fair the voice in the initial trailer also sounds fairly gender neutral, if not female, so I suspect that might be the leak point.

Dudeface wrote:

 Mentlegen324 wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Irbis wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
OK captain pedantic, its a big named Daemon, its easy to see how that was a mistaken identity and is honestly near enough

Not, it was not ""easy"" because the model looks much more like daemon engines than a prince (or the old FW semi-mechanical herald). Also, any leaker with a brain would inform him that no, it's not a prince or anything mortal. It's only ""easy"" mistake to make when you're clueless clown without good source trying to guess from a stolen photo someone who had nothing to do with you posted earlier and you rushed to claim "scoop" usual V style.

Also, let me remind you he also claimed said demon is female/dark mechanicum (again, clueless guess from lithe silhouette/hammer) and that Ark will get army box that will be shown on reveal that was a month ago, both claims even more laughably wrong than prince issue but somehow quietly ignored because it doesn't fit the narrative, eh?

Its lithe like a Slaaneshi daemon, which could be construed as female, and it's Mechanicum as so far its fluff has to do with machines. So nah, you're wrong.

It's not wrong when the only part that turned out to be correct was "Named character" that has something Daemonic. It's not a female character, it's not Dark Mechanicum, and it's not a Daemon Prince.

If the person who saw did not know exactly it was, then saying exactly what it is was just an absurd thing to do, it should have just been "Named Daemon character" - but no, they gave specifics. The specifics of the rumour were incorrect and that only takes way from the credibility, regardless of if you can skew it so it "kinda" seems right.

Jfc it doesn't look like any daemon engine out there at present, it's very humanoid in appearance and is clearly not dedicated to a particular god when all we see are God dedicated models for daemons. Yet still, you expect someone seeing this likely 2nd hand not to go "huh, a big humanoid shaped daemon that isn't overtly god aligned, looks like a cool daemon prince"?

To be fair the voice in the initial trailer also sounds fairly gender neutral, if not female, so I suspect that might be the leak point.

People who only see pictures, or maybe pictures and a name, generally describe stuff in terms that are somehow derived from stuff we are familiar with. 'It's a demon prince' is perfectly reasonable to describe a demony creature that looks like a character, is obviously bigger and more powerful than a herald and less so than a greater demon etc. - from the picture alone you have no reason to conclude that this dude specifically is not a DP at all, but some hitherto unknown level of entity that is best described as 'demigod'. And not every person who may have seen such a picture is intimately familiar with all facets of faction-specific fluff, so it's absolutely possible that this particular rumour was based on a real leak, but somewhat innaccurate due to the leaker jumping to conclusions or making sense of things in terms he knew.

The naysayers are deliberately conflating Valrak's own conjecture with the actual rumour he was given. He assumed it was female after seeing the trailer. The rumour he was given was named daemon prince.

JSG wrote:
The naysayers are deliberately conflating Valrak's own conjecture with the actual rumour he was given. He assumed it was female after seeing the trailer. The rumour he was given was named daemon prince.

I do not like Valrak as a person or as a concept, like, at all, but at this point you can't deny that at least some of the leaks he's waffling on about have to be fed to him by a pretty accurate source. He gets less accurate when he adds his own spin or conclusions, but something is definitely there.