[Trench Crusade] Skirmish game by Tuomas Pirinen

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**Eilif**

Interesting to see TC become a fully formed game with plastic box sets, etc.

We've got a few members of the club who have been playing, though so far, I think it's all been proxies or extensive kitbashes. One might be prints of the official models.

For myself if I do anything it would be via proxy or kitbash. I'm on the fence as whether or not to join in.

**Overread**

They've gone from resin STL sales to plastic in 1 year. I don't think some people realise just how insanely well that means they've done to advance that fast. Normally to build up the sales to even consider plastics you have to wait years even after a major campaign to have built up the resources to achieve that.

Granted plastics are generally more accessible now than ever before, but it's still a huge step in a VERY small timeframe.

**lord_blackfang**

The KS made 5 million, at that point you either go plastic or take the money and run, there's no in between, you can't be a part time garage company.

Will it succeed? I have my doubts, I think, like most influencer projects, TC is all style no substance and won't survive leaving the instagram art scene.

**OrlandotheTechnicoloured**

As lord_blackfang says with the volume of minis needed (and the clear evidence their print farm partners who said they'd cope with the load not able to do so)

they could either pivot into plastic

or go metal if there are any good volume contract casters left (?) which isn't conducive to a growing game any more anyway

**kodos**

the usual question here is what is the market and does the target audiance already have everything they want

so assuming that with a KS that made 5 millions that everyone who wanted a pre-made resin print or the files to print at home bought them already with the KS is not far off and there is no real long term buisness left here

hence going after the part of the market that does not participtated in the KS which are LGS and people without printers and/or who like plastics
a physical rulebook that needs to look ace and the plastic box with iconic but not over the top models that hits the shelf at the same time (I would have gone with anything but the Prussians but I can see why the first models going twith the book are those)

the problem I see here is if content creators predict it as 40k Killer
is also a GrimDark alternative WW1 setting, like classic 40k, but GW left that space some time ago and the current version of 40k is nothing like that
so it might be the thing the "old" people are missing from current 40k and that is why it is popular, the same way other games get popular with those who fall out of the 40k bubble, but to be a 40k killer it needs it misses not just in models (like a starter box for all factions on release) but also on rules

the Kingdom Death comparision isn't a bad one here

**Kid_Kyoto**

Yeah Kingdom Death. I didn't get into it but from what I saw KD was about gorgeous resin models with a lot of transgression and stuff you won't see in a shop on Main/High Street.

TC has the same two things going for it, great designs and transgression, overtly using religion symbols in way that would shock the PTA and get the game banned if they knew or cared.

So it will attract a lot of the same crowd at KD, we'll see if plastics give it more legs than KD which never became more than a niche game.

While this is not scientific, a search of Kingdom Death in our gallery finds 535 images.

https://www.dakkadakka.com/core/gallery-search.jsp?dq=kingdom+death

Trench Crusade already has 652

https://www.dakkadakka.com/core/gallery-search.jsp?dq=trench+crusade&paintjoblow=0&paintjobhigh=10&coolnesslow=0&coolnesshigh=10&auction=0&skip=90&ll=2&s=mb&sort1=7&sort2=0

From a business standpoint I would expect in a few years for it offer a mass battle version. GW did not become a multibillion pound company by selling gamers 10 space marines, they succeeded by selling us armies of 100+ space marines and then getting us to buy the same thing again but paint it a different color.

**Tabletop_Magpie**

I think people see what they want to see in TC. Like yes, you can do your own dudes no problem, have fun. But also here's an extensive set of official faction designs for you to print at home. The rules say that you should go for WYSIWYG, but the official minis have no loadout variability at all.

I doubt the Factory Fortress team got together and said "LETS KILL 40K!", it just took off far better than any of them imagined it would.

**lord_blackfang**

Tabletop_Magpie wrote:

I doubt the Factory Fortress team got together and said "LETS KILL 40K!"

Obviously not, it's just billed like that by clickbait farmers and the most toxic fanbois.

**StraightSilver**

I'm happy that Trench Crusade has done well and impressed that they have managed to get plastics out so quickly.

Less impressed by the pricing though. £32 for 8 minis is more expensive than GW (10 Cadians are £32.50).

I get that they are a new company and plastics are expensive, but matching GW prices at this stage seems risky to me.

**kodos**

this has nothing to with new company but the size of the game

if your whole army is 8 models, the price will be different than for a game where your army is 80 models

a mould for plastics will cost the same no matter if you sell 8 or 80, so the price needs to reflect that.
it also means the GW models are overpriced by a lot for what you need and they expect to sell

but if you think that TC is matching GW prices because you pay 40€ instead of 400€ to play it, this is on you.

**Tabletop_Magpie**

lord_blackfang wrote:
Tabletop_Magpie wrote:

I doubt the Factory Fortress team got together and said "LETS KILL 40K!"

Obviously not, it's just billed like that by clickbait farmers and the most toxic fanbois.

yep! Incredibly frustrating. I made a counter video to this type of "SHOULD GW BE SCARED?!" content a while back. It didn't perform well but it has aged well

https://youtu.be/kDDiGoe3rnk?si=yH2zivPiwG8mshPa

**Overread**

kodos wrote:
this has nothing to with new company but the size of the game

if your whole army is 8 models, the price will be different than for a game where your army is 80 models

This is something that always annoys me cause sometimes people say things like "Infinity beats GW cause an army is cheaper" whilst never admitting that an Infinity army is less models than a single infantry squad for a GW army.

But yeah people often don't think beyond their own pockets when it comes to pricing; so they don't consider that a game has to make regular long term income and such. Heck I could see TC doing the same thing other skirmishers have done and steadily grow army size over time; perhaps even splintering into two rule systems - one battle one skirmish (something Warmachine should have pushed hard in 3rd edition honestly).
Of course some hold on - Infinity has done great at holding onto skirmish scale whilst also steadily expanding over the years.

**StraightSilver**

I think it's a bit disingenuous to say because it's a skirmish game you can justify higher prices per model.

There are 12 factions planned for Trench Crusade, with each war band requiring 2 boxes of minis, so if they are all the same price you are looking at £64 per warband, and if you want to collect each one, that's over £700 which is comparable to a GW army.

A fairer comparison would be to something like Necromunda, where the gangs are comparable to Trench Crusade. Again, a Necromunda gang ends up being cheaper than the Trench Crusade plastics.

I get that it's a new game and plastics are expensive to produce, I just don't think I will be investing at those prices for a game that may or not be around in a couple of years time, whereas I know GW games are supported long term.

However, I get that my opinion probably doesn't match many other (if any) people's opinions. So, not trying to be argumentative or bashing the game/creators. I was just surprised by the pricing.

**manic _miner**

Well if you think that the cost for 8-10 models is high for GW and TC then look at the Perry plastics and the prices of them compared to the amount of miniatures that you get.
At the end of the day everyone has thier own likes and dislikes. Price will play a big part in any purchase too. But when you look at the model count needed and the fact you can kitbash miniatures together from two or more boxes to give you the troops that you need. It gets harder if you plan on trying to kitbash some factions in TC but that is part of the fun of the game setting and look.
I think comparing TC to Necromunda is pretty good as you will need two boxes to give you some variety to your forces. TC only has the one out so far for the Prussians but if another box gets released for them to add other units into the roster it will attract more people.
It all takes time as with any new game and you will always get people saying i wish they did this set first and such comments.
As to will it be comparable to 40K we will have to wait and see.
Maybe they will do a larger scale version of the game at a smaller scale so they can add more units that would be too big in 32mm scale.

**Platuan4th**

Tabletop_Magpie wrote:
lord_blackfang wrote:
Tabletop_Magpie wrote:

I doubt the Factory Fortress team got together and said "LETS KILL 40K!"

Obviously not, it's just billed like that by clickbait farmers and the most toxic fanbois.

yep! Incredibly frustrating. I made a counter video to this type of "SHOULD GW BE SCARED?!" content a while back. It didn't perform well but it has aged well

https://youtu.be/kDDiGoe3rnk?si=yH2zivPiwG8mshPa

Which says more about the YouTube algorithm and why they make and market those videos that way than it does anything else.

**legionaires**

I agree that the transition to plastic should be a good thing but they are going to need to get into retail because paying 70% more for shipping the kit is more than I'm willing to pay. Unfortunately all my LGS have said TC isn't currently welcome due to theme and primarily being STLs.

**BrookM**

Surprisingly a store around here has it up for pre-order, but at €39,99 it's a bit steep, though at least shipping would be cheaper than to order from TC itself. Also, YMMV, but as others have mentioned, it feels like a shame to have one model wasted on just being a musician.

**Coenus Scaldingus**

StraightSilver wrote:I think it's a bit disingenuous to say because it's a skirmish game you can justify higher prices per model.

There are 12 factions planned for Trench Crusade, with each war band requiring 2 boxes of minis, so if they are all the same price you are looking at £64 per warband, and if you want to collect each one, that's over £700 which is comparable to a GW army.

A fairer comparison would be to something like Necromunda, where the gangs are comparable to Trench Crusade. Again, a Necromunda gang ends up being cheaper than the Trench Crusade plastics.

And if you'd collect all Necromunda gangs including all resin hangers-on and upgrade kits, you'd be spending more than Trench Crusade, but that feels about as unrealistic a scenario as having to collect every single Trench Crusade warband for some unspecified reason. While comparisons of prices per model or per warband are all valid in their own ways, the actual minimum cost to start playing is a pretty relevant metric for new players (and presumably one of the reasons skirmish games have gotten rather popular over the last decade).

StraightSilver wrote:Less impressed by the pricing though. £32 for 8 minis is more expensive than GW (10 Cadians are £32.50).

I get that they are a new company and plastics are expensive, but matching GW prices at this stage seems risky to me.

But then, Inquisitorial Agents are £35.50 for 6.5 models. And a Commissar £25.00 for 1 model. Which of these is the fair comparison to the Trench Crusade models and prices? Or indeed, why do they differ from each other? Because GW clearly also justifies higher prices for models players need fewer of, which makes sense both from a player perspective (paying rather a lot for one model isn't as bad if only ever planning to buy one), and the manufacturer perspective (a lower volume of sales is expected from character models than troops, so they have to be priced higher to be worth the investment in plastic moulds).

Of course, GW anyway has the massive scale (and known customer base) advantages, so if Trench Crusade models would hypothetically be sold for the same price, GW would still be making a bigger profit. I do hope they picked a reasonable price point that balances costs with expected sales, but time will tell.

I do assume at least some proportion of TC's customers won't be put off by the prices; many in the grimdark crowd seem happy to buy a small hoard of GW kits to convert a single perfect model with 1 bit from each set, and at least for now I assume many other customers at least have a GW background, so a price tag that is in very much the same ballpark area is probably perfectly acceptable. But then, other customers are mainly interested in printing their own figures, or kitbashing from external kits, so it's a diverse and tricky customer base in that sense.

**kendoka**

… if you'd collect all Necromunda gangs including all resin hangers-on and upgrade kits, you'd be spending more than Trench Crusade, but that feels about as unrealistic…

Not that unrealistic

Admittedly I am a hoarder/whale - but I do have everything Necromunda…

**beast_gts**

Project Update #60 wrote:Book Delivery Update

Greetings Crusaders,

It’s time for a new update!

Books
We're delighted to announce that production of the rulebooks is now complete! Here is the current delivery timeline.

EU, UK and RoW
Books destined for the EU, the UK and RoW will be with the logistics company by the end of this week and they will begin prepping packages for delivery. We estimate shipping to backers will begin around the 26th of November. You will be receiving an email with tracking information as soon as your order ships.

USA and CA
Books for backers in the USA and Canada are currently in transit, but won’t be with the logistics company until mid/late December. We will be trying to get as many books as possible sent before the holidays, but shipping for the 14000 copies is expected to last around 2-3 weeks, so it will be continuing into early January. You will receive an email with tracking information as soon as your order goes out.

As shipping will begin during the holiday season, we are setting up a system so that you can request the shipping of your book be held until early January if you are traveling or otherwise away from home during this period.

If you want us to hold your book, you can go to the contact form on our website. Select the “(US KS Backers) - Hold book until January” subject and make sure you use the same email address as the one in your Backerkit account's “Email” section. You can also simply paste it in as your message too. We will put you on the list for your book to be shipped out starting on the 5th of January.

This needs to be done by the 14th of December and by no other means than the website contact form. Anyone not on the list by then will have their book shipped ASAP.

Minis
We can (finally) confirm that Shop3D has now finished shipping out the first, main wave of miniatures. If you were in Wave 1 and still haven't received a shipping notification from S3D, please contact us at customer.support@trenchcrusade.com.

There are still around 300 orders to go out in Wave 2 for those of you that were late with your Backerkit or S3D shipping surveys. These will be shipped out before the end of the year.

If you have any issues with the minis you received, or if there was something missing from your order, please reach out to S3D at hello@3dcltd.com and they will help you.

If you haven’t yet filled out your Backerkit, please note that you must do it before the end of the year, or you risk not getting your rewards.

You can log into your Backerkit account to finalise it. You can also use the link in your original email or access your account using this link: https://trench-crusade-tabletop.backerkit.com/.

Apple Pay IDs
As a reminder: Backers who pledged to the campaign using an AppleID but haven't completely set up their Apple Pay account (linking their email address to their Apple Wallet) will have issues receiving their emails from BackerKit. Please contact us here and provide us with an alternative email address.

We'll be back soon with a new update!

**Coenus Scaldingus**

kendoka wrote:
… if you'd collect all Necromunda gangs including all resin hangers-on and upgrade kits, you'd be spending more than Trench Crusade, but that feels about as unrealistic…

Not that unrealistic
Admittedly I am a hoarder/whale - but I do have everything Necromunda…

I don't know why I phrased it like that, I've met wargamers.

"uncommon" is probably the better choice of words; of course there will be some people who do collect the full range (and I imagine a handful of people ordered one of every Trench Crusade warband too), but it probably doesn't describe the typical, average, median, whatever, customer. The cost of collecting all isn't much of an indication of what someone would typically spend to play the game, which I guess was the main point of the comparison.

(Yeah, I'm certainly a "collector" myself, but thankfully without full completionist tendencies... thus far.)

**Astmeister**

I received my Prussian Stosstruppen yesterday. Nice!

However I ordered two boxes and only got one. Not nice!

**lord_blackfang**

I've seen them in person, the detail is fantastic.

**Pacific**

There are a few pointers that make me think the game is going to succeed (the setting/backgroud, the minis, the rules & 'open' use of minis) but the most convincing thing to me is that this game already has a really (and I mean really) strong, borderline rabid (and I mean that in the nicest possible way!) SM fanbase. It has already hit big numbers, people are already churning out some incredible minis for it, lots of expos and shows and things like that.

Most notably I have already seen one guy with a massive TC tattoo across his chest, and I know people have been doing it for a long time with Warhammer but this game is still young. So when I saw that, I thought well done Tuomas Pirinen you have done it

**Shakalooloo**

Pacific wrote:
Most notably I have already seen one guy with a massive TC tattoo across his chest

Pics or it didn't happen.

**Tabletop_Magpie**

I was mates with a lad who had the Guild Ball symbol tatt'd on his neck. Like, MASSIVE. Hope you're doing well, Pete!

**JimmyWolf87**

Astmeister wrote:
I received my Prussian Stosstruppen yesterday. Nice!

However I ordered two boxes and only got one. Not nice!

Mine made it as far as Polish customs before being returned to sender due to a lack of invoice information. Which is obviously fun.

**beast_gts**

North Star Military Figures wrote:Trench Crusade.
Great news, we've just been informed by Trench Crusade that the next three plastic box sets are under way, planned for release March 2026.
We'll be taking pre-orders very soon, make sure you keep an eye on our announcements so you don't miss out.
The next three sets will be:
Sniper Priests,
Prussian Yeomen,
Prussian Stosstrupen.
We looking forward to seeing the first pictures of the figures as much as you are!

Spoiler:

**Snord**

Pacific wrote:
There are a few pointers that make me think the game is going to succeed (the setting/backgroud, the minis, the rules & 'open' use of minis) but the most convincing thing to me is that this game already has a really (and I mean really) strong, borderline rabid (and I mean that in the nicest possible way!) SM fanbase. It has already hit big numbers, people are already churning out some incredible minis for it, lots of expos and shows and things like that.

Most notably I have already seen one guy with a massive TC tattoo across his chest, and I know people have been doing it for a long time with Warhammer but this game is still young. So when I saw that, I thought well done Tuomas Pirinen you have done it

A 'rabid' fanbase doesn't guarantee long-term success. And rabid fans can become rabid haters. At one point Warmachine was looking like a challenger to WH40k (at least in the US), and it sort of collapsed in on itself. In fact, I can see a few other similarities with Warmachine, although clearly TC is far less cartoony.

I am pleased for the game's success, and from what I have seen their first set of plastic minis is very good. I am just wary of the way they have ported real world religious imagery and themes directly into the game world. It would probably have made an awesome (R-rated) film, but as a game it's potentially more problematic. I also find the WW1 setting very limited from a gaming perspective, although perhaps they will branch out from there.

**Eilif**

Just had my first game last week. Enjoyed it quite a bit and I'll probably play again. Unfortunately, I'm not likely to add to the financial success of the game as I see it mostly as a chance for grim kitbashing and to use some Steampunk Arab'ish minis that I converted over decade ago.

Still, that's now the majority of our little club that likes the game and will play again.

Here's the figures I used for Iron Sultanate. Converted and Repainted Mage Knight Khamsin.