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 Overread wrote:
Exactly!

Most people that stick with a game or army long term are more than eager to hoover up new models even if they are replacements for ones they already have.
Part of the hobby isn't just having an army, its building and painting and such. Having a chance at new designs, new ships, new game and all you'd see a lot of people buying into the new stuff.

You don't need to change scales to invalidate old games; heck keeping those old models viable is a hhuge draw to helping get oldies back into the game and playing and once they are playing they are providing players for new customers buying new fleets; the oldies are more likely to buy into newly released fleets and update their current ones or build a new fleet for a new faction etc...

Since all measurements in BFG are made from the stem and the base anyway, i don't really see a reason that any models would be invalidated - from the background side of things, imperial fleet and ship designs vary a lot anyway and are noted to follow wildly divergent patterns between sectors, forgeworlds and so on, so as long as you and your opponent are clear which models represent what you can pretty much use whatever you want really.

True about the stems being the only thing that really maters.

I think the issue is where the line between “scale creep” and “new scale” is. If modern ships are just a little bit bigger, it’s not jarring to see them along side the old. I field old RTB01 marines and RT rhinos next to newer kits, and it’s not immersion breaking. But if, for example, a new cobra destroyer is the same size as an old cruiser, that’s just going to look bad.

On a different note, I was just looking at my old fleets, and think contrast paints might suit BFG very well. The built in shade/highlight should make all the little nooks and grubbins pop with minimal effort.

 schoon wrote:

StraightSilver wrote:
Controversial opinion: I'd absolutely love for BFG to return, but only if the ships were a larger scale. Like, much larger. 40K vehicle size..... I know i am probably alone but I think larger ships would be so much cooler.

They have to change the scale at least a bit, otherwise people would be able to reuse their old minis

'Warhammer: The Old World' has entered the discussion

 Ghaz wrote:

 catbarf wrote:

 Ghaz wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
Epic and Warmaster also measured in cm. Of course, there is no particular rhyme or reason to using one scale over the other, it's simple enough to convert the scales.

There is a reason. If you want to measure smaller ranges with the smaller models found in Battlefleet Gothic, Epic and Warmaster, then you use centimeters (unless you would rather measure in half inches).

You can take all ranges and distances in BFG and divide by 2.5 to get near-equivalent values in inches, and since most everything in BFG is increments of 5cm, it translates fine. Imperial cruisers move 8", Chaos ones 10-12", weapons batteries get a left shift under 6" and a right shift over 12", moving through blast markers reduces your speed by 2", gotta move a cruiser 4" before it can turn, and so on.

The difference is mostly relevant to distances based on dice, primarily All Ahead Full, Ork weapon strength, and Nova Cannon scatter, but reworking those to use inches instead wouldn't be terribly difficult.

Personally I'm not too fussed either way.

And the point I was making was WHY they went with centimeters instead of inches (i.e., they wanted the smaller range increments you can get with the smaller measurement unit of centimeters). It has nothing to do with converting from centimeters to inches.

And the point I was making is that 'they wanted the smaller range increments' demonstrably isn't really true.

If anything, 40K makes greater use of granularity in its range scales, since it uses single-inch increments (eg 5" move versus 6" move) where BFG, Epic, and Warmaster almost exclusively use 5cm/2" increments. There aren't any ships in BFG with 13cm movement or 27cm range.

So aside from a couple of D6-cm based minor mechanics (I misspoke on Orks, actually- they don't roll for range) that could easily be reworked to inches at no detriment to gameplay, BFG could be played in inches with otherwise no change and no having to measure increments any lower than 2". It doesn't actually make use of that theoretically better granularity. Maybe they just preferred round increments of 5 over increments of 2 or something.

Either way, with GW using Imperial measurements for their new games, I think it's a safe bet that a new-BFG would be in inches.

I can dream the models will be smaller and not knock each other all the time. If I had time I would be printing them so a cruiser length matched the diameter of the base and go from there...

The_Real_Chris wrote:
I can dream the models will be smaller and not knock each other all the time. If I had time I would be printing them so a cruiser length matched the diameter of the base and go from there...

You would be scaling them down a LOT for that. Like 1/3rd the size. I’d worry that with that scale the smaller escort ships would be unidentifiable.

 Nevelon wrote:

The_Real_Chris wrote:
I can dream the models will be smaller and not knock each other all the time. If I had time I would be printing them so a cruiser length matched the diameter of the base and go from there...

You would be scaling them down a LOT for that. Like 1/3rd the size. I’d worry that with that scale the smaller escort ships would be unidentifiable.

There’s a community already doing this. You can find their work on FB and Thingiverse. Minis sculpted for the smaller scale look good.

It will be Battle Fleet Gothic: Boarding Action. Set in the Hersey time period and revolve around the Imperial Navy boarding vessels of merchant nobility ships. It will have nothing to do with marines and everything to do with imperial navy units in 14mm scale fighting in the well lit hallways of merchant vessels. To conserve ammo and not cause hull breaches armies will use thrown weapons improvised from the cargo of the ships. This will be known as the great food fight in space, but if you want to still hope for BFG, it will probably be out April 1st.

Don't give them any more ideas

 schoon wrote:

StraightSilver wrote:
Controversial opinion: I'd absolutely love for BFG to return, but only if the ships were a larger scale. Like, much larger. 40K vehicle size..... I know i am probably alone but I think larger ships would be so much cooler.

They have to change the scale at least a bit, otherwise people would be able to reuse their old minis

Instead of ships being a dot in the center of the flying base (with the model just there for representation) they will instead be a slightly larger dot in the center of the flying base.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 schoon wrote:

StraightSilver wrote:
Controversial opinion: I'd absolutely love for BFG to return, but only if the ships were a larger scale. Like, much larger. 40K vehicle size..... I know i am probably alone but I think larger ships would be so much cooler.

They have to change the scale at least a bit, otherwise people would be able to reuse their old minis

Instead of ships being a dot in the center of the flying base (with the model just there for representation) they will instead be a slightly larger dot in the center of the flying base.

You know, i'd play 'Battlefleet Gothic: Boarding Action' with boats, pinasses, assault rams, dreadclaws and all the other ordnance stuff, but i'm a weirdo and it would be BFG in name only

BFG is interesting because the logical fantasy counterpart would be Man'O'War...

...omg, they should totally do boarding operations for AoS and Warcry too!

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 schoon wrote:

StraightSilver wrote:
Controversial opinion: I'd absolutely love for BFG to return, but only if the ships were a larger scale. Like, much larger. 40K vehicle size..... I know i am probably alone but I think larger ships would be so much cooler.

They have to change the scale at least a bit, otherwise people would be able to reuse their old minis

Instead of ships being a dot in the center of the flying base (with the model just there for representation) they will instead be a slightly larger dot in the center of the flying base.

You know, i'd play 'Battlefleet Gothic: Boarding Action' with boats, pinasses, assault rams, dreadclaws and all the other ordnance stuff, but i'm a weirdo and it would be BFG in name only

That would work better as an Aeronautica Imperialis expansion I'd bet, and could be pretty cool. Basically X-Wing when they added the smaller capital ships, with a little extra crunchiness for torpedoes and boarders

Buf for spaceships, go smaller please. BFG is why I never ever ever use GW flying stands, learned the hard way from too many broken metal battleships on brittle clear bases to just glue a nail to the base and use that as a stem, which eventually became melt the nail into the base. Better to spend an extra couple minutes than regluing every model's base every game. Will be less of an issue if everything is plastic, but feth flying bases nonetheless

Never liked BFG much, was too hardcore a fan of Space Fleet. Still have my entire Imperial Fleet.

My guess: They'll do an Aeronautica and release a reworked version on a grid that doesn't work properly.

SamusDrake wrote:
BFG is interesting because the logical fantasy counterpart would be Man'O'War...

...omg, they should totally do boarding operations for AoS and Warcry too!

They could do AoS "Spelljammer"

AoS would be a fantastic setting for a Dystopian Wars style game -

 Overread wrote:
AoS would be a fantastic setting for a Dystopian Wars style game -

AoS Warmaster/Man'o'War would work pretty well with the overall over-the-top-ness of the setting, there is a lot of stuff in the background that would work well with or would require 'epic scale' to really shine. Stuff like the mega-gargants, Karaknos and all that could easily stand in as a titan equivalent.

 AnomanderRake wrote:
My guess: They'll do an Aeronautica and release a reworked version on a grid that doesn't work properly.

Sure: due to the distances involved in space battles, there is no meaningful movement of ships once the shooting starts. To compensate for that, and to take various stealth systems and tactics into account, players set up their fleets in secret, and use a grid system for that. Player turns consist of using sensors and shooting ordnance at grid locations they expect enemy ships at. Battleship Gothic

 lord_blackfang wrote:


They could do AoS "Spelljammer"

That would certainly draw in some D&D folk!

SamusDrake wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:


They could do AoS "Spelljammer"

That would certainly draw in some D&D folk!

There is an AoS RPG that i've not heard much about that has a couple of books already, no idea if it has gained any traction.

https://cubicle7games.com/our-games/age-of-sigmar-soulbound

For whatever reason, the main GW web and community presences rarely ever admit that stuff like this exists.

 catbarf wrote:

And the point I was making is that 'they wanted the smaller range increments' demonstrably isn't really true.

If anything, 40K makes greater use of granularity in its range scales, since it uses single-inch increments (eg 5" move versus 6" move) where BFG, Epic, and Warmaster almost exclusively use 5cm/2" increments. There aren't any ships in BFG with 13cm movement or 27cm range.

So aside from a couple of D6-cm based minor mechanics (I misspoke on Orks, actually- they don't roll for range) that could easily be reworked to inches at no detriment to gameplay, BFG could be played in inches with otherwise no change and no having to measure increments any lower than 2". It doesn't actually make use of that theoretically better granularity. Maybe they just preferred round increments of 5 over increments of 2 or something.

Either way, with GW using Imperial measurements for their new games, I think it's a safe bet that a new-BFG would be in inches.

Re: why BFG used centimetres instead of inches - if I recall correctly, it was for two reasons:

1) Legacy - Epic 40,000 also used cm, and the BFG core rules were based on that game engine

2) Theme - metric measurements feel more scientific, futuristic and spacey than old-fashioned imperial measurements.

Whether either of these reasons would still hold these days, I have no idea.

They did it to have bigger numbers, that’s all.

Tsagualsa wrote:


There is an AoS RPG that i've not heard much about that has a couple of books already, no idea if it has gained any traction.

https://cubicle7games.com/our-games/age-of-sigmar-soulbound

For whatever reason, the main GW web and community presences rarely ever admit that stuff like this exists.

I had a flick through those books recently and they looked rather nice, as well as including a healthy bestiary of foes. I bang its drum a lot, almost as much as Pacific does for Epic, but I feel that Sam Pearson's solo-coop AoS campaigns, combined with Soulbound...there's something good there for GW and AoS customers.

Still, just remembered that this is a BFG thread and I have got carried away, so we had best return to the topic at hand.

Oh no am I that bad?!

I like BFG and would be great to see a new release & minis. Agree on the comments that upscaling will create a crappy looking space car park of a jumble of ships. I also fear that the rules writers will look at the gunnery charts of the game (which I will be honest, could be a bit laborious) and replace them with something crap that then removes all of the importance of manouever and facing from the game, and turn it into Dreadfleet in Space.

I honestly think the gunnery chart makes it more immersive in this case.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I honestly think the gunnery chart makes it more immersive in this case.

Adeptus Titanicus has shown that they're not totally averse to have cardboard stuff like Command & Control panels and so on, if they can sell it they'll print a gunnery chart under a marketable name like Cogitator or sth. like that in a heartbeat. Or even C&C panels for individual capital ships, that would be an easy way to do special characters or ships of renown on the cheap.

The main problem is GW having no inhouse card printing machine and seeming to have the worlds most spotty reprinting policies.

Heck even in White Dwarf they can't stick to one kind of card insert policy. Sometimes its just a sheet of card you have to cut out manually; sometimes its got perforated edges on the spin connector at least; sometimes its got them around each object, sometimes its a sheet of card separate from the magazine.

You never know which you're going to get.

 Overread wrote:
The main problem is GW having no inhouse card printing machine and seeming to have the worlds most spotty reprinting policies.

Heck even in White Dwarf they can't stick to one kind of card insert policy. Sometimes its just a sheet of card you have to cut out manually; sometimes its got perforated edges on the spin connector at least; sometimes its got them around each object, sometimes its a sheet of card separate from the magazine.

You never know which you're going to get.

I said it before: if you take all the boardgames and assorted random stuff they're slinging in account, and add the world-wide supply chain and now also the Brexit trouble on top of it, they have to be at least close to the point that in-housing some cardboard production resources would make long-term economic sense. It's not like they could not make up the difference with Warhammer-themed products like playing cards or even art prints. I guess distribution is the issue that prevents them from doing so.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Overread wrote:
The main problem is GW having no inhouse card printing machine and seeming to have the worlds most spotty reprinting policies.

Heck even in White Dwarf they can't stick to one kind of card insert policy. Sometimes its just a sheet of card you have to cut out manually; sometimes its got perforated edges on the spin connector at least; sometimes its got them around each object, sometimes its a sheet of card separate from the magazine.

You never know which you're going to get.

I said it before: if you take all the boardgames and assorted random stuff they're slinging in account, and add the world-wide supply chain and now also the Brexit trouble on top of it, they have to be at least close to the point that in-housing some cardboard production resources would make long-term economic sense. It's not like they could not make up the difference with Warhammer-themed products like playing cards or even art prints. I guess distribution is the issue that prevents them from doing so.

I suspect key issues are even if they can afford the machine, where do they get the pulp and inks from to feed into it? Right now a lot of the printing happens in India/China so the UK doesn't have a huge pulp or ink industry. So they still have to source those materials and get them imported.
The next layer of issues is having skilled staff to operate the machines. If the industry isn't much in the UK that means skilled operators won't be in the UK to be had, which means finding specialists, training, dealing with startup issues and all and potentially having the operation running with inexperienced staff for a number of years.


I do agree that GW could make good use of a printing machine; heck if they could set it up its not just their card s tock; that's also their packaging as well. GW has steadily invested into owning more and more of their production cycle. They own the mould firm that makes the moulds for their casting machines; they own a paint factory (I believe this is much more recent). GW are steadily investing their profits into owning more of their infrastructure, which means having more of their operation in-house. So I could well see a time where they might get a card printer and setup their own system.

 Pacific wrote:
Oh no am I that bad?!

If you were with the Church of England, everyone would be turning in on Sundays!

Nah, seriously, keep up the good work. Its good eggs such as yourself that keep these games alive; Blood Bowl and Necromunda, for example. And more relevant, theres that fan magazine for BFG itself which is bloody good if you ask me.