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I think the most unbelievable aspect of that argument is the claim that Mr. BurnerAccount has "great respect" for Valrak. I mean... Valrak! of all people. Why would you even?

tneva82 wrote:
Marine codex AND supplements before summer? Release slots run out. By now there would be more concrete info including from GW.

To be even comparable codex and supplements would have to come out RIGHT NOW and it would still have shorter gap...

Space Marine 2.0 and Supplements where apparently planned but scrapped since due to all the delays they would be too close to 10th. All the Marine Battleforces where planned to release with that.

Tsagualsa wrote:

This approaches something bordering on excitement

Either this or next friday we'll get the solution to that, unless they'd ramped up the Tarot cards to maximum obscurity to mess with us.

We both know they'll post a card named "The Great Angel" and it'll be left ambigious if it's DA or BA :p

 Segersgia wrote:

I do have a question.

While this thread was specifically created as a reaction to Valrak's videos on the subject, I recall these 10th edition rumours started back in july with two reddit posts.

One about the early roadmap:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/vqo5yk/2023_10th_edition_roadmap/

Another clarifying the other one two days later with extra information on Kill Team and future codices:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/vrizn6/i_feel_the_need_to_clarify_the_leaks/

I don't remember or can find if Valrak ever acknowledged these rumours and I am not aware of the opinion the forum has on these.

What do people feel about these ones? And do these qualify to perhaps be added to the older rumour list? Apologies if this is bringing back stuff that has already been discussed.

I know Valrak talked about the first one back then but I don't remember what he said about it and no idea about the second one

 xttz wrote:

 Segersgia wrote:

Another clarifying the other one two days later with extra information on Kill Team and future codices:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Warhammer40k/comments/vrizn6/i_feel_the_need_to_clarify_the_leaks/

I don't remember or can find if Valrak ever acknowledged these rumours and I am not aware of the opinion the forum has on these.

What do people feel about these ones? And do these qualify to perhaps be added to the older rumour list? Apologies if this is bringing back stuff that has already been discussed.

There's a couple of things that work both for and against this rumour. As I remember the Kasrkin and details on the new marine units were both posted elsewhere before this link, so it's possible that those rumours were incorporated into this schedule to make it seem more real.

On the other hand, schedules for 6+ months away are still subject to change and may well be very different to what GW originally intended. This is part of why they typically aren't usually keen on showing new models more than 3-4 months before release. We've seen other rumours state that plans for marine chapter supplements were dropped. It may well be the case that GW originally planned to do a WE vs Marines boxed set followed by chapter supplements to finish 9E. Then for whatever reason they changed their mind and decided to drop the supplements until 10E, and instead released the models as we see now.

Yeah, at this point multiple sources alleged to the Supplements originally having been planned for 9th, but now moved to 10th for unknown reasons. With their supply chain issues and their ongoing problems with cardboard and print products it does seem likely that that shift needed to happen due to some backlog in stocking and supply operations. And AFAIK, the missile launcher marines and melee dreadnought had not been mentioned before these rumours at all, and only appeared in the youtube rumour circuit months later, so there's that. On the other hand, Angron was leaked about a week later, and rumoured much earlier, so that would have been easy to guess.

 Matrindur wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Marine codex AND supplements before summer? Release slots run out. By now there would be more concrete info including from GW.

To be even comparable codex and supplements would have to come out RIGHT NOW and it would still have shorter gap...

Space Marine 2.0 and Supplements where apparently planned but scrapped since due to all the delays they would be too close to 10th. All the Marine Battleforces where planned to release with that.

now THAT makes sense. Especially since those boxes looked a bit too fancy to be the usual sort of army box

Tsagualsa wrote:
AFAIK, the missile launcher marines and melee dreadnought had not been mentioned before these rumours at all, and only appeared in the youtube rumour circuit months later, so there's that.

I can't find the original Reddit post but the first mention of that marine rumour was at least Feb 2022. It was repeated by Valrak and Spikey Bits around then.

BurnerAccount claims they'll be vindicated when the bonereaper character gets shown on an upcoming Monday.

Dudeface wrote:
BurnerAccount claims they'll be vindicated when the bonereaper character gets shown on an upcoming Monday.

Or a lizardmen spawning pool.

Tsagualsa wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
BurnerAccount claims they'll be vindicated when the bonereaper character gets shown on an upcoming Monday.

Or a lizardmen spawning pool.

To be fair on the list of stuff for them to show off that likely needs redesigning:

Skinks on foot
Razordon
Kroxigors
Cold ones
Maybe chameleon skinks?
If there's any other stuff on top it'll be possibly end of March before they preview anything not lizardmen.

 Matrindur wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Marine codex AND supplements before summer? Release slots run out. By now there would be more concrete info including from GW.

To be even comparable codex and supplements would have to come out RIGHT NOW and it would still have shorter gap...

Space Marine 2.0 and Supplements where apparently planned but scrapped since due to all the delays they would be too close to 10th. All the Marine Battleforces where planned to release with that.

I do slightly believe that we technically are getting a "2.0" codex with the Agastus strike force booklet. If the rumour-mongers were referring to this thing, it might give them a better track record.

With all the "recent" 10th Edition rumormongers coming out of the woodwork, I wouldn't be surprised if GW themselves are putting out
some of this stuff in the hope that a "true" rumormonger overreaches and divulges something that allows tracing back to their source.

Old-Four-Arms wrote:

With all the "recent" 10th Edition rumormongers coming out of the woodwork, I wouldn't be surprised if GW themselves are putting out
some of this stuff in the hope that a "true" rumormonger overreaches and divulges something that allows tracing back to their source.

At this point I'm inclined to agree that some of this might be getting out on purpose, either to flush people out or more likely just keep people engaged during an intentional release lul.

Dudeface wrote:

Old-Four-Arms wrote:

With all the "recent" 10th Edition rumormongers coming out of the woodwork, I wouldn't be surprised if GW themselves are putting out
some of this stuff in the hope that a "true" rumormonger overreaches and divulges something that allows tracing back to their source.

At this point I'm inclined to agree that some of this might be getting out on purpose, either to flush people out or more likely just keep people engaged during an intentional release lul.

Semi-official marketing dudes like Valrak intervening might be some sort of damage control from higher up to curtail the worst of the made-up stuff, i.e. stuff that might actually drive people away, like unfounded rumours about total resets.

Dudeface wrote:

Old-Four-Arms wrote:

With all the "recent" 10th Edition rumormongers coming out of the woodwork, I wouldn't be surprised if GW themselves are putting out
some of this stuff in the hope that a "true" rumormonger overreaches and divulges something that allows tracing back to their source.

At this point I'm inclined to agree that some of this might be getting out on purpose, either to flush people out or more likely just keep people engaged during an intentional release lul.

I do think it’s a benefit for GW in the end, it’s a lot of Hype they can always deny if needed.

Tsagualsa wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Old-Four-Arms wrote:

With all the "recent" 10th Edition rumormongers coming out of the woodwork, I wouldn't be surprised if GW themselves are putting out
some of this stuff in the hope that a "true" rumormonger overreaches and divulges something that allows tracing back to their source.

At this point I'm inclined to agree that some of this might be getting out on purpose, either to flush people out or more likely just keep people engaged during an intentional release lul.

Semi-official marketing dudes like Valrak intervening might be some sort of damage control from higher up to curtail the worst of the made-up stuff, i.e. stuff that might actually drive people away, like unfounded rumours about total resets.

At this point the total reset rumor is the most believable out of all of them...

Wayniac wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Old-Four-Arms wrote:

With all the "recent" 10th Edition rumormongers coming out of the woodwork, I wouldn't be surprised if GW themselves are putting out
some of this stuff in the hope that a "true" rumormonger overreaches and divulges something that allows tracing back to their source.

At this point I'm inclined to agree that some of this might be getting out on purpose, either to flush people out or more likely just keep people engaged during an intentional release lul.

Semi-official marketing dudes like Valrak intervening might be some sort of damage control from higher up to curtail the worst of the made-up stuff, i.e. stuff that might actually drive people away, like unfounded rumours about total resets.

At this point the total reset rumor is the most believable out of all of them...

I think we need some sort of 'I am not a crazy person'-diagram about which rumour was probably copied by another and how their relations influence their credibility

Dudeface wrote:

Old-Four-Arms wrote:

With all the "recent" 10th Edition rumormongers coming out of the woodwork, I wouldn't be surprised if GW themselves are putting out
some of this stuff in the hope that a "true" rumormonger overreaches and divulges something that allows tracing back to their source.

At this point I'm inclined to agree that some of this might be getting out on purpose, either to flush people out or more likely just keep people engaged during an intentional release lul.

I think it's more likely that stuff is getting out now because this is the time when GW just can't keep it secret anymore. Physical product boxes are being produced and shipped around the world in preparation for June, more non-studio staff are starting to see details on the new rules & models to prepare marketing materials, and the usual community 'influencer' types are likely getting more involved too.

Then as genuine info starts to surface you have the usual telephone game with finer details getting muddied, or folks trying spread misinfo on purpose to amuse themselves.

Wayniac wrote:
Intervenators is a ridiculous name even by GW naming.

Some of these get stranger and stranger, as expected. Definitely pancake edition vibes, the irony of course being that pancake edition was actually better than the official one that we got

The 'making tyranids less than 100% insectoid' doesn't help that, since I can't imagine anyone saying that if they've ever seen a tyranid model (or, alternately, insects). The models themselves seem less outlandish in weapons loadout, the stats are... a weird mix of Oldhammer, AoS and 40k, which makes them look perfectly wrong. Bringing back init and adding evade is certainly an interesting choice, the sort of blundering game design that seems more believable coming from GW.


The rumor batch before that started with the statement that it was done out of spite, so that doesn't help either.

Dudeface wrote:

Old-Four-Arms wrote:

With all the "recent" 10th Edition rumormongers coming out of the woodwork, I wouldn't be surprised if GW themselves are putting out
some of this stuff in the hope that a "true" rumormonger overreaches and divulges something that allows tracing back to their source.

At this point I'm inclined to agree that some of this might be getting out on purpose, either to flush people out or more likely just keep people engaged during an intentional release lul.

Yeah, its feeling like something. Either leak tracing or just people squabbling in a weird way over 'being right'

Tsagualsa wrote:

Dudeface wrote:
BurnerAccount claims they'll be vindicated when the bonereaper character gets shown on an upcoming Monday.

Or a lizardmen spawning pool.

Bonereapers are just a guess. Everyone in the AoS community knows an OBR book plus character is on the way. A spawning pool sounds like nonsense. Why would Seraphon get a second peice of faction terrain? I'm pretty certain this individual is just a troll.

 xttz wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Old-Four-Arms wrote:

With all the "recent" 10th Edition rumormongers coming out of the woodwork, I wouldn't be surprised if GW themselves are putting out
some of this stuff in the hope that a "true" rumormonger overreaches and divulges something that allows tracing back to their source.

At this point I'm inclined to agree that some of this might be getting out on purpose, either to flush people out or more likely just keep people engaged during an intentional release lul.

I think it's more likely that stuff is getting out now because this is the time when GW just can't keep it secret anymore. Physical product boxes are being produced and shipped around the world in preparation for June, more non-studio staff are starting to see details on the new rules & models to prepare marketing materials, and the usual community 'influencer' types are likely getting more involved too.

Then as genuine info starts to surface you have the usual telephone game with finer details getting muddied, or folks trying spread misinfo on purpose to amuse themselves.

Yep, the thing about influencers can't be overstated: if we operate on the assumption that the release date at the end of june is accurate, and that they'd want to use the period from Warhammer Fest till release to have a hype phase of about 8 weeks, now would be about the time that influencers, artists and other content creators would have signed their pre-NDAs and actual NDAs and would be somewhere in the process of getting assigned their review materials, miniatures and stuff to paint and so on. By sheer necessity, that would mean that there is 'Blood in the water' and a lot of people would be aware that something is coming, even if they or their contracts are not allowed to talk specifics yet.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:
Man, all this talk when we already had a far more intuitive solution. Templates. Yes they were hard to perfectly balance and someone particularly pedantic can argue edge cases, but it was far, far more intuitive as far as 40k is concerned.

What do templates have to do with damage spill-over?

A Proposed Rule I might've never posted for Damage Spill-Over is that, when you deal excess damage, any excess is divided by two (rounding down, minimum 0) then applied to the next model in a unit. Keep going until everyone is dead or damage runs out.

So, against a squad of W1 guys, D1 and D2 kills one. D3-6 kills two. D7+ would kill three. (Technically you can kill a fourth with a D15+, but nothing actually has that to my knowledge.)
Against W2 models, D2 and D3 kills one. D4-D5 kills one, wounds another. D6-D9 kills two. D10+ kills two, wounds a a third.

The calculations are more complicated than I'd like, but I think it hits a good sweet spot between "A Lascannon is USELESS against hordes" and "A Lascannon is better than a Frag Missile against hordes".

My point is you didn't need damage spill-over when you could damage multiple units at once with a template. You could definitely argue edge cases, but you don't have to worry about things like blast weapons or other large non-focused weapons feeling weird when you had a hand-dandy system for hitting and damaging multiple units at once with the same damage statline. Stat them with the appropriate damage numbers, and there you go.

Though I do agree damage spillover would be good for melee.

Obviously AoS can't use this system because the kind of weapons used don't apply to it, but 40k had a relatively solid system for it.

I am more than glad that the stupid template system is gone for good. This has no place in anything with a larger scale than Necromunda. It is just bloat..... but, that is just my, rather strong, opinion. I totally accept that there are other viewpoints.

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 ProfSrlojohn wrote:
Man, all this talk when we already had a far more intuitive solution. Templates. Yes they were hard to perfectly balance and someone particularly pedantic can argue edge cases, but it was far, far more intuitive as far as 40k is concerned.

What do templates have to do with damage spill-over?

A Proposed Rule I might've never posted for Damage Spill-Over is that, when you deal excess damage, any excess is divided by two (rounding down, minimum 0) then applied to the next model in a unit. Keep going until everyone is dead or damage runs out.

So, against a squad of W1 guys, D1 and D2 kills one. D3-6 kills two. D7+ would kill three. (Technically you can kill a fourth with a D15+, but nothing actually has that to my knowledge.)
Against W2 models, D2 and D3 kills one. D4-D5 kills one, wounds another. D6-D9 kills two. D10+ kills two, wounds a a third.

The calculations are more complicated than I'd like, but I think it hits a good sweet spot between "A Lascannon is USELESS against hordes" and "A Lascannon is better than a Frag Missile against hordes".

My point is you didn't need damage spill-over when you could damage multiple units at once with a template. You could definitely argue edge cases, but you don't have to worry about things like blast weapons or other large non-focused weapons feeling weird when you had a hand-dandy system for hitting and damaging multiple units at once with the same damage statline. Stat them with the appropriate damage numbers, and there you go.

Obviously AoS can't use this system because the kind of weapons used don't apply to it, but 40k had a relatively solid system for it.

IMHO getting rid of templates was one of the smarter things they did, especially for 'serious' tournament play - for the sheer amount of miniatures that a typical game now has, rules that rely on the individual placement of miniatures and are min-maxable by players just have no place in the game anymore because they can slow down matches to a crawl and lead to endless arguments about full vs. partial covering, unit spacing and so on. Templates were fine and useful for smaller games with fewer models and less models with a non-standard footprint, but they start to fail in large games and where a lot of non-standard models are present. With a reasonable opponent it's not too difficult to work it out, but in a setting where winning is all that matters it's just not feasible.

"Damage control" is the wrong word here as there is no damage done

we have a discussion on all different platforms ignoring anything but the upcoming 40k game and what it will be

damage control would be needed if one of the "leakers" would come up with "not worth playing" or "the changes make all models you bought until now useless"

Just different rumours of how much 40k is going to change is not damage but marketing
we know that 10th will come, we know that the game will change, we know that previous books are outdated with release and we know that certain armies will need to wait years to be playable again

this is the GW standard for 40k, the difference in details does not really matter
Initiative coming back? Templates? Index to remove bloat?
the thing is, in 3 years people will ask for another reset because GW messed it up again, no matter what the changes are
and no matter what is in the initial rules, people well say that it is the best game ever made and all the rules changes make perfect sense and are a big improvident, no matter how "bad" those are said to be now (if GW will return to templates people will praise it, not matter what)

the question is simply just are they going to mess it up with the first books or to we get a year of usable rules until it happens

 kodos wrote:

this is the GW standard for 40k, the difference in details does not really matter
Initiative coming back? Index to remove bloat?
the thing is, in 3 years people will ask for another reset because GW messed it up again, no matter what the changes are

the question is simply just are they going to mess it up with the first books or to we get a year of usable rules until it happens

Some variation of that eternal circle is unavoidable as long as their design strategy is 'Prune back to usability - add stuff until it breaks - repeat'. It's not even a totally bad strategy, it works out from a commercial point of view, is somewhat predictable for the players and it guarantees that you'll probably not stuck in unplayability with no new models forever, like e.g. 3rd edition Orks or Dark Eldar for the majority of their existence.

it would work if GW would do 2 things
split rules and background and in addition go back digital

as long as you needed a printed book that is mainly background to play that game instead of having the possibility to get stand alone rules in digital form, it would not be a big problem

 kodos wrote:
it would work if GW would do 2 things
split rules and background and in addition go back digital

as long as you needed a printed book that is mainly background to play that game instead of having the possibility to get stand alone rules in digital form, it would not be a big problem

IMHO the best solution would be something like Wizards of the Coast do with Magic: the Gathering - the actual game rules are free, regularly updated and available online, both in a 'quick to play' variant that is sufficient for 99% of players in 95% of situations, and in a technically written, comprehensive rule set that explains literally every single -numbered- rule in excruciating detail and is thus the ultimate fallback for every conceivable rules question. This document is somewhat intimidating, but the fact of its existence, coupled with well-updated FAQs, means that in practice even tournaments with hundreds of players and thousands of different cards as well as uncounted potential interactions usually just need a handful of judge rulings, and most of those only because players misunderstood a rule - actual rules ambiguities are practically unheard of.

NAVARRO wrote:Nids overall redesign? YES PLEASE!

I would concur with my erstwhile colleague here. The 3rd edition redesign, while clean and new and exciting at the time, is looking a little stale and hasn't been put to best use if your name doesn't start with 'Jes' and end with 'Goodwin'. The maleceptor alone should have had everyone querying 'nid revamp when?'

The vague descriptions we get here are interesting, hinting at the nids becoming more weird than the xenomorph expies they became. (I guess that since the 3rd Ed nids appeared, the Aliens franchise sliding down a slope from Alien3 to Resurrection to AVP to Covenant made everybody want to move on.)

 Vermis wrote:

AVP

You leave that masterpiece alone! It's one of the best worst movies of all time, only narrowly beaten by AVP 2 due to the added needless violence on the neonatal care unit in that one