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2023/02/23 09:01:52
Subject: Re:10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
I think bringing back the Lion would just be pretty absurd really. There's been no real hint of it with Arks of Omen so far in the Tarot Cards, despite book 3 involving the Dark Angels. It would be a massive change to the fundamentals of 40k yet again and it would mean they barely did much of substance with the new status quo before yet again changing the core aspects of the setting to something different. They're got nowhere near exhausting the potential of the current stuff to the point its time to change the settings foundations again.
Um, they were setting up the Lions return back in 2016 with the War Zone Fenris books. It was all there and then they acted like that part of the lore didn't exist and then suddenly it was all Primaris and Roboute leading the way. So your hints came almost seven years ago. He should have come back a long time ago.
The seed for the return of some loyalist Primarchs was sown much earlier, even in the time of the first 'Index Astartes' series, when it was explicitly stated and then repeated countless times that many of them are not dead, but 'spirited away' to places unknown in some way. Russ, The Lion, Dorn after the retcon about his skeleton, Vulkan, Guilliman, the Khan and Corax were 'alive/not confirmed dead' by comic book rules since then: no on-screen body, not dead. Guilliman of course being the special case of a body being present, but maybe healing in stasis.
2023/02/23 09:14:39
Subject: Re:10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
I want Dorn to return in the form of a big ol' dreadnought, only instead of power fists or guns it has his severed hands attached, the only remaining bits of his body left, through which the Primarch can still direct his sons. The Imperial Fists master sign language in response.
2023/02/23 09:15:53
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
generic WLT and relics that every army has access to (CP refund, +1 save, master crafted weapon)
more generic stratagems that mostly everyone has access to (character fight on death, auspex, combat revival with medic keyword)
10th will bring back indexes. All armies stratagems and WLT will be massively scaled back
subfactions are gone and replaced with custom traits. Subfaction flavor is relegated to special characters providing rules
turret rule is generic now. Nearly every vehicle has atleast one turret
obsec is gone. Objectives controlled based on the number of starting wounds with troops counting as 2x
spells and prayers cut. Max 3 per discipline but still meaningful
game feels much more streamlined but a bit more generic. Lots of flavor cut out in favor of simplicity
playtest material only included marines, tyranids, and index books
This is a regurgitation, probably from spikybits, which got it from discord screenshots etc. - we had these rumours in the OP since 02/21, filed under 'Disgruntled on Discord'
Aenar wrote: I checked the previous page of this discussion but not 5 pages ago, my bad
No problem, it's not easy to keep everything in sight & mind, last week the thread was moving very fast. I keep the 1st post mostly current though and edit it daily if new stuff comes up.
- Lion will have 4 head options, including a full helmet, a bare face, a 'cult' version with hood and one with an open visor/semi-covered face
- Equipped with a sword, possibly the Lion Sword, and a shield
- Restates again the theory about the Lion already being returned and active in secret, the chamber on the rock is empty
- Says new models, but not the Lion, will be revealed on Warhammer World Open Day, bigger things will be shown at Adepticon
- Among them: Snikrot, Dante, Farsight, probably main teaser for the Lion
It's mostly re-stating stuff we already know or suspect - i think we're in some sort of a lull before march will absolutely packed with official reveal events, and then shortly followed by Warhammer Fest.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/23 13:17:09
2023/02/23 14:27:26
Subject: Re:10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
I think bringing back the Lion would just be pretty absurd really. There's been no real hint of it with Arks of Omen so far in the Tarot Cards, despite book 3 involving the Dark Angels. It would be a massive change to the fundamentals of 40k yet again and it would mean they barely did much of substance with the new status quo before yet again changing the core aspects of the setting to something different. They're got nowhere near exhausting the potential of the current stuff to the point its time to change the settings foundations again.
Um, they were setting up the Lions return back in 2016 with the War Zone Fenris books. It was all there and then they acted like that part of the lore didn't exist and then suddenly it was all Primaris and Roboute leading the way. So your hints came almost seven years ago. He should have come back a long time ago.
The problem is you're taking small bits of lore that's there to add intrigue and mystery to the setting but were not intended to go anywhere further as "hints". The Lion has been "sleeping and ready to return" since 2007 at least, possibly even earlier. So was Guilliman with him "potentially healing in status" and all the other things about hoping Primarchs come back and quests to find them and that sort of thing. They were not "hints" at anything.
Regardless when has GW ever planted "hints" at anything long before it happened in a way where they clearly intended to be a hint of what was coming at the time it was written? The only example I can recall was there was a single encounter with the Squats in Psychic Awakening Pariah before they were properly announced less than 2 years after that was mentioned.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2023/02/23 14:33:28
2023/02/23 14:36:40
Subject: Re:10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
I think bringing back the Lion would just be pretty absurd really. There's been no real hint of it with Arks of Omen so far in the Tarot Cards, despite book 3 involving the Dark Angels. It would be a massive change to the fundamentals of 40k yet again and it would mean they barely did much of substance with the new status quo before yet again changing the core aspects of the setting to something different. They're got nowhere near exhausting the potential of the current stuff to the point its time to change the settings foundations again.
Um, they were setting up the Lions return back in 2016 with the War Zone Fenris books. It was all there and then they acted like that part of the lore didn't exist and then suddenly it was all Primaris and Roboute leading the way. So your hints came almost seven years ago. He should have come back a long time ago.
The problem is you're taking small bits of lore that's there to add intrigue and mystery to the setting but were not intended to go anywhere further as "hints". The Lion has been "sleeping and ready to return" since 2007 at least, possibly even earlier. So was Guilliman with him "potentially healing in status" and all the other things about hoping Primarchs come back and quests to find them and that sort of thing. They were not "hints" at anything.
Regardless when has GW ever planted "hints" at anything long before it happened in a way where they clearly intended to be a hint of what was coming at the time it was written? The only example I can recall was there was a single encounter with the Squats in Psychic Awakening Pariah before they were properly announced less than 2 years after that was mentioned.
There was an interview that i can't manage to find anymore where one of the 'big' 40k designers put it succinctly: they put all sorts of hints towards all manners of stuff in the fluff all the time, with no specific intention to do anything concrete about any of them. By doing that, they can choose from among hundreds of hints and connect them in the future, when they want to introduce new stuff or change in the setting. The designer called it 'showing the audience a lot of open doors, but mostly never going through them'.
2023/02/23 14:45:06
Subject: Re:10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
The problem is you're taking small bits of lore that's there to add intrigue and mystery to the setting but were not intended to go anywhere further as "hints". The Lion has been "sleeping and ready to return" since 2007 at least, possibly even earlier. So was Guilliman with him "potentially healing in status" and all the other things about hoping Primarchs come back and quests to find them and that sort of thing. They were not "hints" at anything.
Regardless when has GW ever planted "hints" at anything long before it happened in a way where they clearly intended to be a hint of what was coming at the time it was written? The only example I can recall was there was a single encounter with the Squats in Psychic Awakening Pariah before they were properly announced less than 2 years after that was mentioned.
GW writers have stated previoulsy that things like this are written into the background for two reasons:
1) It gives players opportunity to be creative with their own background material for their army or campaign. The two missing space marine legions were explicitly (not) added for that reason.
2) It's also an opportunity for GW writers to pick up those plot points in future if they decide there's an interesting direction for them to go. Various units and even whole factions (like Necrons) have been developed from small lore elements written years earlier, once the studio came up with a concept they liked.
So basically things like "the Lion is sleeping" are left as seeds for possible future ideas, but not necessarily a definite project or plan.
Spoiler:
Except for Ynnari. That stuff is going nowhere lmao
2023/02/23 14:48:31
Subject: Re:10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
I think bringing back the Lion would just be pretty absurd really. There's been no real hint of it with Arks of Omen so far in the Tarot Cards, despite book 3 involving the Dark Angels. It would be a massive change to the fundamentals of 40k yet again and it would mean they barely did much of substance with the new status quo before yet again changing the core aspects of the setting to something different. They're got nowhere near exhausting the potential of the current stuff to the point its time to change the settings foundations again.
Um, they were setting up the Lions return back in 2016 with the War Zone Fenris books. It was all there and then they acted like that part of the lore didn't exist and then suddenly it was all Primaris and Roboute leading the way. So your hints came almost seven years ago. He should have come back a long time ago.
The problem is you're taking small bits of lore that's there to add intrigue and mystery to the setting but were not intended to go anywhere further as "hints". The Lion has been "sleeping and ready to return" since 2007 at least, possibly even earlier. So was Guilliman with him "potentially healing in status" and all the other things about hoping Primarchs come back and quests to find them and that sort of thing. They were not "hints" at anything.
Regardless when has GW ever planted "hints" at anything long before it happened in a way where they clearly intended to be a hint of what was coming at the time it was written? The only example I can recall was there was a single encounter with the Squats in Psychic Awakening Pariah before they were properly announced less than 2 years after that was mentioned.
There was an interview that i can't manage to find anymore where one of the 'big' 40k designers put it succinctly: they put all sorts of hints towards all manners of stuff in the fluff all the time, with no specific intention to do anything concrete about any of them. By doing that, they can choose from among hundreds of hints and connect them in the future, when they want to introduce new stuff or change in the setting. The designer called it 'showing the audience a lot of open doors, but mostly never going through them'.
Yeah, this is it. They aren't there because they're hinting at what their plans are. They're there to add mystery and interest to the setting on their own while giving plenty of opportunities for things that they could elaborate on at some point if they wanted to. They might go back and do something with them much, much later and connect them to something but at the time they're added its not because they're all "hints" at anything they're actually planning on doing.
Maybe there are other examples but Like I said the only one I can recall that was clearly intended to be a hint (because it around the sort of timeframe when they were working on them or at least thinking of it) was the Squats encounter 2 years before they were announced, and even that was a single small vague paragraph in a campaign book.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/02/23 14:53:01
2023/02/23 15:01:50
Subject: Re:10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
Tsagualsa wrote:There was an interview that i can't manage to find anymore where one of the 'big' 40k designers put it succinctly: they put all sorts of hints towards all manners of stuff in the fluff all the time, with no specific intention to do anything concrete about any of them. By doing that, they can choose from among hundreds of hints and connect them in the future, when they want to introduce new stuff or change in the setting. The designer called it 'showing the audience a lot of open doors, but mostly never going through them'.
Oh! Just like the Bene Gesserit! And about as competently mishandled.
The 'big 40K designer' quote I remember (was it Rick Priestly or Andy Chambers? Rick I think.) was that if GW brought the primarchs back, they were out of ideas.
Aenar wrote: I checked the previous page of this discussion but not 5 pages ago, my bad
No problem, it's not easy to keep everything in sight & mind, last week the thread was moving very fast. I keep the 1st post mostly current though and edit it daily if new stuff comes up.
- Lion will have 4 head options, including a full helmet, a bare face, a 'cult' version with hood and one with an open visor/semi-covered face
- Equipped with a sword, possibly the Lion Sword, and a shield
- Restates again the theory about the Lion already being returned and active in secret, the chamber on the rock is empty
- Says new models, but not the Lion, will be revealed on Warhammer World Open Day, bigger things will be shown at Adepticon
- Among them: Snikrot, Dante, Farsight, probably main teaser for the Lion
It's mostly re-stating stuff we already know or suspect - i think we're in some sort of a lull before march will absolutely packed with official reveal events, and then shortly followed by Warhammer Fest.
4 different heads for a character? Usually they get a helmeted and non-helmeted option, sure, and having a quick look at the GW site there's the Avatar and Lord of Change with 3 different heads, but what named characters have had 4 different options?
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/02/23 16:43:28
2023/02/23 16:52:07
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
Aenar wrote: I checked the previous page of this discussion but not 5 pages ago, my bad
No problem, it's not easy to keep everything in sight & mind, last week the thread was moving very fast. I keep the 1st post mostly current though and edit it daily if new stuff comes up.
- Lion will have 4 head options, including a full helmet, a bare face, a 'cult' version with hood and one with an open visor/semi-covered face
- Equipped with a sword, possibly the Lion Sword, and a shield
- Restates again the theory about the Lion already being returned and active in secret, the chamber on the rock is empty
- Says new models, but not the Lion, will be revealed on Warhammer World Open Day, bigger things will be shown at Adepticon
- Among them: Snikrot, Dante, Farsight, probably main teaser for the Lion
It's mostly re-stating stuff we already know or suspect - i think we're in some sort of a lull before march will absolutely packed with official reveal events, and then shortly followed by Warhammer Fest.
4 different heads for a character? Usually they get a helmeted and non-helmeted option, sure, and having a quick look at the GW site there's the Avatar and Lord of Change with 3 different heads, but what named characters have had 4 different options?
Abaddon has three (no helmet option) and two of them with just different mimic. Magnus too. I think it's not that unlikely.
2023/02/23 16:59:15
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
Aenar wrote: I checked the previous page of this discussion but not 5 pages ago, my bad
No problem, it's not easy to keep everything in sight & mind, last week the thread was moving very fast. I keep the 1st post mostly current though and edit it daily if new stuff comes up.
- Lion will have 4 head options, including a full helmet, a bare face, a 'cult' version with hood and one with an open visor/semi-covered face
- Equipped with a sword, possibly the Lion Sword, and a shield
- Restates again the theory about the Lion already being returned and active in secret, the chamber on the rock is empty
- Says new models, but not the Lion, will be revealed on Warhammer World Open Day, bigger things will be shown at Adepticon
- Among them: Snikrot, Dante, Farsight, probably main teaser for the Lion
It's mostly re-stating stuff we already know or suspect - i think we're in some sort of a lull before march will absolutely packed with official reveal events, and then shortly followed by Warhammer Fest.
4 different heads for a character? Usually they get a helmeted and non-helmeted option, sure, and having a quick look at the GW site there's the Avatar and Lord of Change with 3 different heads, but what named characters have had 4 different options?
Abaddon has three (no helmet option) and two of them with just different mimic. Magnus too. I think it's not that unlikely.
I noticed some that have 3 options, like Shadowsun has no helmet/visor/helmet, but couldn't find any with 4.
2023/02/23 17:10:40
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
Open day is 5th March, 10 days from now. Not too long to wait for a credibility test. He's specified DA models right? I assume so because "New models on open day" isn't any sort of leak.
2023/02/23 17:15:10
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
JWBS wrote: Open day is 5th March, 10 days from now. Not too long to wait for a credibility test. He's specified DA models right? I assume so because "New models on open day" isn't any sort of leak.
He specified *no* DA models on the 5th, assumes (but clear from the video this is speculation) that the 5th will be Farsight & Snikrot, with maybe a little tease for the Lion at the end.
2023/02/23 17:15:45
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
Aenar wrote: I checked the previous page of this discussion but not 5 pages ago, my bad
No problem, it's not easy to keep everything in sight & mind, last week the thread was moving very fast. I keep the 1st post mostly current though and edit it daily if new stuff comes up.
- Lion will have 4 head options, including a full helmet, a bare face, a 'cult' version with hood and one with an open visor/semi-covered face
- Equipped with a sword, possibly the Lion Sword, and a shield
- Restates again the theory about the Lion already being returned and active in secret, the chamber on the rock is empty
- Says new models, but not the Lion, will be revealed on Warhammer World Open Day, bigger things will be shown at Adepticon
- Among them: Snikrot, Dante, Farsight, probably main teaser for the Lion
It's mostly re-stating stuff we already know or suspect - i think we're in some sort of a lull before march will absolutely packed with official reveal events, and then shortly followed by Warhammer Fest.
4 different heads for a character? Usually they get a helmeted and non-helmeted option, sure, and having a quick look at the GW site there's the Avatar and Lord of Change with 3 different heads, but what named characters have had 4 different options?
Abaddon has three (no helmet option) and two of them with just different mimic. Magnus too. I think it's not that unlikely.
I noticed some that have 3 options, like Shadowsun has no helmet/visor/helmet, but couldn't find any with 4.
If you have a character with two bare heads with just a different facial expression and one with a half-face mask, than the step to one more head (bare, helmet, hood and mask) isn't exactly steep.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/23 17:18:04
2023/02/23 17:17:19
Subject: Re:10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
Tsagualsa wrote:There was an interview that i can't manage to find anymore where one of the 'big' 40k designers put it succinctly: they put all sorts of hints towards all manners of stuff in the fluff all the time, with no specific intention to do anything concrete about any of them. By doing that, they can choose from among hundreds of hints and connect them in the future, when they want to introduce new stuff or change in the setting. The designer called it 'showing the audience a lot of open doors, but mostly never going through them'.
Oh! Just like the Bene Gesserit! And about as competently mishandled.
The 'big 40K designer' quote I remember (was it Rick Priestly or Andy Chambers? Rick I think.) was that if GW brought the primarchs back, they were out of ideas.
I mean there's only so many times you can add a faction to such a massive system and limited ways to add new units as time progresses. The real pickle is 10 years from now - how will GW keep the model churn going?
2023/02/23 17:23:32
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
JWBS wrote: Open day is 5th March, 10 days from now. Not too long to wait for a credibility test. He's specified DA models right? I assume so because "New models on open day" isn't any sort of leak.
He specified *no* DA models on the 5th, assumes (but clear from the video this is speculation) that the 5th will be Farsight & Snikrot, with maybe a little tease for the Lion at the end.
People watch his videos to hear him say these things?
2023/02/23 18:17:42
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
JWBS wrote: Open day is 5th March, 10 days from now. Not too long to wait for a credibility test. He's specified DA models right? I assume so because "New models on open day" isn't any sort of leak.
He specified *no* DA models on the 5th, assumes (but clear from the video this is speculation) that the 5th will be Farsight & Snikrot, with maybe a little tease for the Lion at the end.
People watch his videos to hear him say these things?
I watch them, so you don't have to
2023/02/23 18:59:41
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
JWBS wrote: Open day is 5th March, 10 days from now. Not too long to wait for a credibility test. He's specified DA models right? I assume so because "New models on open day" isn't any sort of leak.
He specified *no* DA models on the 5th, assumes (but clear from the video this is speculation) that the 5th will be Farsight & Snikrot, with maybe a little tease for the Lion at the end.
People watch his videos to hear him say these things?
I watch them, so you don't have to
You are a god amongst man. Or stupid and having to much time. Thanks nonetheless.
2023/02/23 19:08:02
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
JWBS wrote: Open day is 5th March, 10 days from now. Not too long to wait for a credibility test. He's specified DA models right? I assume so because "New models on open day" isn't any sort of leak.
He specified *no* DA models on the 5th, assumes (but clear from the video this is speculation) that the 5th will be Farsight & Snikrot, with maybe a little tease for the Lion at the end.
People watch his videos to hear him say these things?
I watch them, so you don't have to
You are a god amongst man. Or stupid and having to much time. Thanks nonetheless.
It's not so bad - the upside to 90% of any given video being senseless banter is that you can skip 90% of any given video Sped-up to 1.5, making much use of youtube's close caption feature and the chapter annotations they have had for some time 'watching' a 15 minute video takes about 3 mins, with another 5 maybe to update the thread. I mostly do it while brewing a cup of tea
2023/02/23 19:38:39
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
Mortarion and Magnus only had 1 head option. Guilliman has 2. Abaddon has 3. Now Lion will have 4???
GW, the head balance is unreal! Please nerf heads, or go back and add heads to the earlier primarchs! What's next? Leman Russ gunna have 5 heads showing different stages of the wulfen curse or something?
2023/02/23 19:40:00
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
Mortarion and Magnus only had 1 head option. Guilliman has 2. Abaddon has 3. Now Lion will have 4???
GW, the head balance is unreal! Please nerf heads, or go back and add heads to the earlier primarchs! What's next? Leman Russ gunna have 5 heads showing different stages of the wulfen curse or something?
Just imagine a very witty and naughty wordplay about Fulgrim getting the best head here...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/02/23 19:40:13
2023/02/23 19:55:26
Subject: 10th Edition Rumour Roundup - includes Starter Box, Marines and Tyranid Rumours
