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Draw your own conclusions.

I think the technical term is 'dumpster fire'.

I find the different community interactions very interesting to watch:

Dakka: Meltdown. Selling armies, trash binning their armies, basically the game is unplayable and *expletives*
Reddit: Kind of mellow. Adaptable. Nothing really negative except maybe some point comparisons between different factions. All excited to play. They are really weirded out by everything being free but adapting.
Twitter: AoS players actually excited about playing 40k. "Sounds like my type of game" type of energy.

I'm not upset about everything getting free wargear.
But the fixed unit sizes are annoying.

I have 6 Dire Avengers. I now have to either pay the cost for 10, or shelf the 6th model.
That's just one of MANY examples of model sizes I and my son own that are more than the box size, but less than the size of 2 boxes.

It would have been super easy for GW to price extra models separately.
5 Dire Avengers- 70pts
+1-5 additional Dire Avengers- +13pts per model

How hard was that?

-

 Eldarsif wrote:


Dakka: Meltdown. Selling armies, trash binning their armies, basically the game is unplayable and *expletives*

Careful, your strawmen might catch a spark from the dumpster fire

As far as i'm aware, nobody here said anything about selling or trashing their army (yet).

 Eldarsif wrote:
I find the different community interactions very interesting to watch:

Dakka: Meltdown. Selling armies, trash binning their armies, basically the game is unplayable and *expletives*
Reddit: Kind of mellow. Adaptable. Nothing really negative except maybe some point comparisons between different factions. All excited to play. They are really weirded out by everything being free but adapting.
Twitter: AoS players actually excited about playing 40k. "Sounds like my type of game" type of energy.

The 40k subreddit is garbage. They defended the new iteration of RP for Necrons.

They're as bad as the people on the official Facebook.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I find the different community interactions very interesting to watch:

Dakka: Meltdown. Selling armies, trash binning their armies, basically the game is unplayable and *expletives*
Reddit: Kind of mellow. Adaptable. Nothing really negative except maybe some point comparisons between different factions. All excited to play. They are really weirded out by everything being free but adapting.
Twitter: AoS players actually excited about playing 40k. "Sounds like my type of game" type of energy.

Yeah, Dakkadakka reminds me of the Bungie/Destiny forums that turn toxic at every change…

GW hints at something new
Dakkites get excited
GW reveals
Dakkites become Debbie Downers & overreact
GW releases
Dakkites still stay in in hobby they cry about even after threats of leaving the hibby
Rinse & repeat

Dakka: Meltdown. Selling armies, trash binning their armies, basically the game is unplayable and *expletives*

I have not seen anyone trash binning or selling their armies. Its playable. But being playable doesn't mean its balanced. Dumbing it down in one way, then making it ridiculously more complex in another way seems counter-intuitive. Charging no points for some upgrades, then points for other upgrades many of which seem less impactful on the game is also counter-intuitive.

Justyn wrote:

Dakka: Meltdown. Selling armies, trash binning their armies, basically the game is unplayable and *expletives*

I have not seen anyone trash binning or selling their armies. Its playable. But being playable doesn't mean its balanced. Dumbing it down in one way, then making it ridiculously more complex in another way seems counter-intuitive. Charging no points for some upgrades, then points for other upgrades many of which seem less impactful on the game is also counter-intuitive.

I called it unplayable, but specifically in the context of competitive play at Grand Tournaments.

 Trickstick wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Yes, it's silly. Though I don't think he was doing much with that pistol in the past regardless. There are parts of this that never mattered and now we don't have to sweat those details.

I'd rather have "commissar pistol weapon" than this nonsense.

It would seem more logical if you make hugely different weapons cost the same - why bother having the much weaker ones - better off with a single profile and as you say call it "Unit" Pistol weapon

 Galef wrote:
I'm not upset about everything getting free wargear.
But the fixed unit sizes are annoying.

I have 6 Dire Avengers. I now have to either pay the cost for 10, or shelf the 6th model.
That's just one of MANY examples of model sizes I and my son own that are more than the box size, but less than the size of 2 boxes.

It would have been super easy for GW to price extra models separately.
5 Dire Avengers- 70pts
+1-5 additional Dire Avengers- +13pts per model

How hard was that?

-

I hear you and get what you are saying.

I'm an oldie in the game too, but I actually find the fixed unit sizes a relief. They are flexible enough that one can play most common sizes anyway, and it makes it more streamlined to calculate in your head if one unit can mathematically beat another if they get the charge.

For once, the game has become less clunky and in this regard plays more like a 2000s game rather than a 90s game.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:


Dakka: Meltdown. Selling armies, trash binning their armies, basically the game is unplayable and *expletives*

Careful, your strawmen might catch a spark from the dumpster fire

As far as i'm aware, nobody here said anything about selling or trashing their army (yet).

Also, it's almost as is Dakka is the only one of those that is conducive to the methods of free speech. On Reddit, rarely will people give their true opinions (particularly on the GW focussed subs) as they'll just get downvoted into oblivion due to the nature of the platform. Twitter, not enough text to give a proper view and suffers from a lot of the problems Reddit does WRT shouting people down. Facebook as well will shut down any discussions that the mods deem to be "not positive".

Forums of all types are where you should be looking at for the true opinion of this trash heap by a bunch of supposed professionals. Cause I can say that here and not get censored by other users that don't like my opinion. Good, innit?

 Grimtuff wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Set unit sizes. Set upgrade unit sizes. Every weapon option is free.

This is hell.

I'm out.

I for one, welcome our new Grimdark Future overlords.

100% this. At least Grimdark Future kept weapon options in it. This new edition of 40K is worthless.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 oni wrote:
Holy feth! The Rules Commentary is longer than the fething Core Rules. What the literal feth?!?!?!

I saw that and was cackling. They really couldn't find their own ass with two hands and a map, could they?

 triplegrim wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I'm not upset about everything getting free wargear.
But the fixed unit sizes are annoying.

I have 6 Dire Avengers. I now have to either pay the cost for 10, or shelf the 6th model.
That's just one of MANY examples of model sizes I and my son own that are more than the box size, but less than the size of 2 boxes.

It would have been super easy for GW to price extra models separately.
5 Dire Avengers- 70pts
+1-5 additional Dire Avengers- +13pts per model

How hard was that?

-

I hear you and get what you are saying.

I'm an oldie in the game too, but I actually find the fixed unit sizes a relief. They are flexible enough that one can play most common sizes anyway, and it makes it more streamlined to calculate in your head if one unit can mathematically beat another if they get the charge.

For once, the game has become less clunky and in this regard plays more like a 2000s game rather than a 90s game.

GW has made games with fixed 'unit' sizes in the past that worked well (like various iterations of epic, for example), but this is not it. Fixed unit sizes are not a huge problem per se, but it feels somewhat disconnected from the fluff and done carelessly in the presentation we are offered right now. It would have literally cost them nothing, for example, to allow Combat-Squading for SM, or throw in an intermediate step between 5 and 10, for example the various god's sacred numbers, for CSM simply for fluff reasons. At the moment, i'm most interested in how the Combat Patrol mode will differ from what we have seen so far, but i don't think it will bring vast changes. Overall, i'm mostly annoyed because the doomsayers seem to have been correct about the gist of what was coming, and because i don't understand a lot of the design decisions that went into this edition, or worse, find the offered reasons and explanations cynical, untrue, and adding insult to injury.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 triplegrim wrote:
How much does drones cost for a crisis suit unit? I dont understand quite.

Zero. W6 4++ battlesuits if you want, but beware of the secondary.

Thanks.

Secondary what?


Since Drones does not actually work as models, but markers, and are included in the cost of the crisis suit, It does not make sense to field 36 drones with a gigantic footprint for a regular Tau army with 18 crisis suits. I am expecting to see 3d printed (tiny) drones that is just put on the base of the crisis suit. Along the lines of the new darkstryder model.

Has anyone priced out the two sides of the leviathan box yet? The consensus was that the tyranid side was underpointed. I'd like to know if that's actually true or they just overcosted the bugs.

 triplegrim wrote:

 Galef wrote:
I'm not upset about everything getting free wargear.
But the fixed unit sizes are annoying.

I have 6 Dire Avengers. I now have to either pay the cost for 10, or shelf the 6th model.
That's just one of MANY examples of model sizes I and my son own that are more than the box size, but less than the size of 2 boxes.

It would have been super easy for GW to price extra models separately.
5 Dire Avengers- 70pts
+1-5 additional Dire Avengers- +13pts per model

How hard was that?

-

I hear you and get what you are saying.

I'm an oldie in the game too, but I actually find the fixed unit sizes a relief. They are flexible enough that one can play most common sizes anyway, and it makes it more streamlined to calculate in your head if one unit can mathematically beat another if they get the charge.

For once, the game has become less clunky and in this regard plays more like a 2000s game rather than a 90s game.

I can't get how the fixed unit sizes could be "a relief". You cant' fine-tune a list anymore regarding points or unit efficiency. You cant' adjust a unit size to fill the capacity of a transport anymore. You can't divide your model collection into however fits what you like. You can't buy single or odd numbers of second-hand miniatures for a squad, because you can't even field them !

How is that not clunky ?

 Galef wrote:
I'm not upset about everything getting free wargear.
But the fixed unit sizes are annoying.

I have 6 Dire Avengers. I now have to either pay the cost for 10, or shelf the 6th model.
That's just one of MANY examples of model sizes I and my son own that are more than the box size, but less than the size of 2 boxes.

It would have been super easy for GW to price extra models separately.
5 Dire Avengers- 70pts
+1-5 additional Dire Avengers- +13pts per model

How hard was that?

-

That does not promote buying more to accommodate the set sizes though! These seemingly arbitrary number sets exist purely as a way to push people into buying more from GW to match them. There is no other reasonable reason to not do points per model for units that traditionally could do so before ("but little Timmy does not want math with his toy soldiers" is honestly not a reasonable reason).

Just a quick thought on the different points on different units that are the "same" but in multiple codexs.

An example of this that I just did in building lists was TS land raider is 250 while the CSM land radier is 255. The have the same exact data sheet abilities. However, the TS faction rules and detachment rules do nothing for a land raider. The CSM ones definitely help a lot (5+ lethal hits with Tzeenth, um yes please).

Clearly this shows the price increase is based on its effectiveness in the faction. I am pretty sure there are pages and pages on this fourm discussing how not accounting for faction, chapter, legion etc. abilities in points made some units to good and others not in 9th.

So I don't understand the issue with this, and I personally think that it is good that they are looking at points not just on raw data sheet, but the role that unit can play in an army.

Just my thoughts.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Oguhmek wrote:
Hmm, I generally appreciate the simplifications, most options were already either must-takes or useless, so might as well just bake it into the unit cost.

Sure, there are still some crincles to iron out, I bet we'll see quite a few datacards updated in the coming months, but in overall I think it's great.

It's certainly better suited to modern-style boxes like e.g. the Desolator Squad or whatever, where you have pretty much no options and your available options are sidegrades, instead of legacy squads like the humble Tactical Squad with their variety of choices. The extreme consolidation (reduction in options) for Combi-Weapons, Deathwatch etc. is obviously a symptom of their burning need to squish everything into the powerlevel-with-free-upgrades mould.

Right, but that just means they'll use it as a retroactive justification for stripping out options and making 40K units more like AoS units: One or two builds only, where the attacks and the strength are swapped back and forth. Which is something no one wanted or asked for, but they will proceed to force on every kit from now on.

 Eldarsif wrote:
I find the different community interactions very interesting to watch:

Dakka: Meltdown. Selling armies, trash binning their armies, basically the game is unplayable and *expletives*
Reddit: Kind of mellow. Adaptable. Nothing really negative except maybe some point comparisons between different factions. All excited to play. They are really weirded out by everything being free but adapting.
Twitter: AoS players actually excited about playing 40k. "Sounds like my type of game" type of energy.

I'm actually shocked by the lack of meltdown in my local groups and in competitive reddits. I'm warming to the points as I look through them. Like Illuminor got a huge glow up, but he went from 145 to 220. There's still problems, but largely on the whole it seems decent. I can still customize squads even if I'm taking all the upgrades so it's not all gone.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
The 40k subreddit is garbage. They defended the new iteration of RP for Necrons.

There's two subreddits - are you referring to competitive. Also the new Necron RP seems really good...?

LMAO Skitarii Rangers and Vanguard are 100-125
AND Marine Vanguard Vets are 15 points more expensive than Assault Marines despite being worse!

 Eldarsif wrote:
I find the different community interactions very interesting to watch:

Dakka: Meltdown. Selling armies, trash binning their armies, basically the game is unplayable and *expletives*
Reddit: Kind of mellow. Adaptable. Nothing really negative except maybe some point comparisons between different factions. All excited to play. They are really weirded out by everything being free but adapting.
Twitter: AoS players actually excited about playing 40k. "Sounds like my type of game" type of energy.

Haha. Yeah dakkadakka didn't dissapoint.

Biggest dissapointment for me today was no scenario pack. The one in core rules rather boring. Was hoping to try the new 9e/tempest hybrid in first game.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tsagualsa wrote:

Justyn wrote:

Dakka: Meltdown. Selling armies, trash binning their armies, basically the game is unplayable and *expletives*

I have not seen anyone trash binning or selling their armies. Its playable. But being playable doesn't mean its balanced. Dumbing it down in one way, then making it ridiculously more complex in another way seems counter-intuitive. Charging no points for some upgrades, then points for other upgrades many of which seem less impactful on the game is also counter-intuitive.

I called it unplayable, but specifically in the context of competitive play at Grand Tournaments.

Well. Luckily there's never been competitive play in GW games So no change there.

Boosykes wrote:
Life has gotten crazy over the last few days and I haven't been able to keep up with the revels but I know point drop today. How close was I? Are death guard bottom of the barrel, sitting next to adeptus mechanicus like they looked in the preview and are eldar, and space marines hanging at the top? Like they appeared to be?

That's what it currently looks like, yes.

 Grimtuff wrote:
Also, it's almost as is Dakka is the only one of those that is conducive to the methods of free speech. On Reddit, rarely will people give their true opinions (particularly on the GW focussed subs) as they'll just get downvoted into oblivion due to the nature of the platform. Twitter, not enough text to give a proper view and suffers from a lot of the problems Reddit does WRT shouting people down. Facebook as well will shut down any discussions that the mods deem to be "not positive".

Forums of all types are where you should be looking at for the true opinion of this trash heap by a bunch of supposed professionals. Cause I can say that here and not get censored by other users that don't like my opinion. Good, innit?

The opinions on competitive reddit are usually pretty much against GW, but both sides exist. Reddit is just a terrible place to discuss things. Well, Dakka sometimes, too...

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

EviscerationPlague wrote:
The 40k subreddit is garbage. They defended the new iteration of RP for Necrons.

There's two subreddits - are you referring to competitive. Also the new Necron RP seems really good...?

Take your pick. Last I visited was the competitive one but they're all garbage anyway.

Also RP sucks. It allows easy unit Wipeouts. You can talk about how with a Reanimator + Orb you get 10 models back over two Command Phases, but guess what? Warriors and Immortals are gonna die before that.

You wouldn't understand with your blind loyalty to GW of course, so what's new?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Spoiler:

Games Workshop wrote:Rich from the Studio says: “Unit sizes are now much easier to manage. Rather than adding individual models to a squad, you buy them in increments – sets of five models, 10 models, and so on. These generally correlate to the quantity you’ll get in that unit’s box, so you won’t need to agonise over how to include all of the models you’ve bought. It also helps to quickly understand the strength of a full squad at a glance, and makes list-building far quicker and simpler.

Games Workshop wrote:“Unit sizes are now much easier to manage. Rather than adding individual models to a squad, you buy them in increments – sets of five models, 10 models, and so on. These generally correlate to the quantity you’ll get in that unit’s box, so you won’t need to agonise over how to include all of the models you’ve bought.

Games Workshop wrote:“Rather than adding individual models to a squad, you buy them in increments – sets of five models, 10 models, and so on. These generally correlate to the quantity you’ll get in that unit’s box...

Games Workshop wrote:... These generally correlate to the quantity you’ll get in that unit’s box...

Games Workshop wrote:... quantity you’ll get in that unit’s box...

Games Workshop wrote:... in that unit’s box...

Games Workshop wrote:... box...

*loudly clears throat*

Like, really really loudly.

It gives me Lord Business from the LEGO Movie vibes. "Build it like we told you! Don't be creative!"

Zachectomy wrote:
Has anyone priced out the two sides of the leviathan box yet? The consensus was that the tyranid side was underpointed. I'd like to know if that's actually true or they just overcosted the bugs.

GW's own live-play demo game of the box set included a couple extra tyranid units. They were certainly convinced the tyranid side was worth less.

 Scottywan82 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Spoiler:

Games Workshop wrote:Rich from the Studio says: “Unit sizes are now much easier to manage. Rather than adding individual models to a squad, you buy them in increments – sets of five models, 10 models, and so on. These generally correlate to the quantity you’ll get in that unit’s box, so you won’t need to agonise over how to include all of the models you’ve bought. It also helps to quickly understand the strength of a full squad at a glance, and makes list-building far quicker and simpler.

Games Workshop wrote:“Unit sizes are now much easier to manage. Rather than adding individual models to a squad, you buy them in increments – sets of five models, 10 models, and so on. These generally correlate to the quantity you’ll get in that unit’s box, so you won’t need to agonise over how to include all of the models you’ve bought.

Games Workshop wrote:“Rather than adding individual models to a squad, you buy them in increments – sets of five models, 10 models, and so on. These generally correlate to the quantity you’ll get in that unit’s box...

Games Workshop wrote:... These generally correlate to the quantity you’ll get in that unit’s box...

Games Workshop wrote:... quantity you’ll get in that unit’s box...

Games Workshop wrote:... in that unit’s box...

Games Workshop wrote:... box...

*loudly clears throat*

Like, really really loudly.

It gives me Lord Business from the LEGO Movie vibes. "Build it like we told you! Don't be creative!"

Simpsons did it!

 triplegrim wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 triplegrim wrote:
How much does drones cost for a crisis suit unit? I dont understand quite.

Zero. W6 4++ battlesuits if you want, but beware of the secondary.

Thanks.

Secondary what?


Since Drones does not actually work as models, but markers, and are included in the cost of the crisis suit, It does not make sense to field 36 drones with a gigantic footprint for a regular Tau army with 18 crisis suits. I am expecting to see 3d printed (tiny) drones that is just put on the base of the crisis suit. Along the lines of the new darkstryder model.

Each dead battlesuit is worth 2VP. Obviously the W6 4++ is a good thing in that context - it's just taking too many of them that could make scoring very easy. TBD though.

Voss wrote:

Zachectomy wrote:
Has anyone priced out the two sides of the leviathan box yet? The consensus was that the tyranid side was underpointed. I'd like to know if that's actually true or they just overcosted the bugs.

GW's own live-play demo game of the box set included a couple extra tyranid units. They were certainly convinced the tyranid side was worth less.

well with barbgaunts being as cheap as they are....