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 kodos wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
So you are expecting perfect app from non-software company as a minimum requirement when even dedicated software companies don't do perfect app's...

so we are back to bs arguments to defend GW

I get that GW cannot do anything wrong but this?

ok, so why people expected a working game from a non-gaming company when even the gaming companies don't make perfect games?
so 40k is the best of a game that a non-gaming company can do and we should not expect Mantic Games level rules from a miniature company

I guess GW should just stop making games at all and focus on miniatures to be used in other games if it is only possible to make one thing

Companies like Microsoft, Nintendo etc aren't meeting your minimum requirement. Lol.

I missed that wargame those 2 are making
have link as I am really interested in those games as an alternative to 40k, having an App or not

It's some sort of logical fallacy, not bothering to look it up - there's not just 'broken' and 'perfect', there's a spectrum in between. People are not asking for perfection, they're asking for reasonable standards that are state-of-the-art elsewhere. And that's a reasonable thing to ask for.

I'm enjoying the efforts to restore the fun to 40K noting 10th isn't actually released yet.

Not saying there isn't going to be issues with 10th, but seems pretty reactionary to me.

 Dawnbringer wrote:
I'm enjoying the efforts to restore the fun to 40K noting 10th isn't actually released yet.

Not saying there isn't going to be issues with 10th, but seems pretty reactionary to me.

the tournament side have a remarkably simple solution open to them: for the next six months use 9th for tournaments and watch for actual issues with 10th before tryoing to fix it

Tsagualsa wrote:
It's some sort of logical fallacy, not bothering to look it up - there's not just 'broken' and 'perfect', there's a spectrum in between. People are not asking for perfection, they're asking for reasonable standards that are state-of-the-art elsewhere. And that's a reasonable thing to ask for.

Exactly. It doesn't really matter who you are or what your focus is, once you are charging money for something. Nobody would buy a car without power steering just because the manufacturer is mainly into selling bubble gum. I'm aware that the app is currently free, but that is most likely going to change soon / relevant parts will get paywalled.

even as a free app it does not do its job as you need to remove wargear that is replaced manually and if you forget to unclick that
which is the minimum I expect from an army builder, to actually build a legal army for that game and not just being a calculator with text output

Tsagualsa wrote:
It's some sort of logical fallacy, not bothering to look it up - there's not just 'broken' and 'perfect', there's a spectrum in between. People are not asking for perfection, they're asking for reasonable standards that are state-of-the-art elsewhere. And that's a reasonable thing to ask for.

as I learned today GW is neither a gaming nor a software company (and not a book writing company either) but just a miniature company

therefore expecting anything but miniatures from them as not reasonable at all, and we should be grateful that a miniature company at least try to make rules for a game with software support and no matter how well those work

so they should not be measured on standards from gaming companies but only miniature companies

hence if GW games and app workes better than the game and app from Wargames Atlantic, Victrix Limited or Perry Miniatures, it is already above the standard for miniature companies

/s

Tsagualsa wrote:
It's some sort of logical fallacy, not bothering to look it up - there's not just 'broken' and 'perfect', there's a spectrum in between. People are not asking for perfection, they're asking for reasonable standards that are state-of-the-art elsewhere. And that's a reasonable thing to ask for.

False dichotomy/false dilemma/false binary

 Baragash wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
It's some sort of logical fallacy, not bothering to look it up - there's not just 'broken' and 'perfect', there's a spectrum in between. People are not asking for perfection, they're asking for reasonable standards that are state-of-the-art elsewhere. And that's a reasonable thing to ask for.

False dichotomy/false dilemma/false binary

Yeah, that's the one. Nobody loses their mind over bugs/typos, but i think one can expect - from a release product that is not clearly marked as 'beta' or whatever, mind - that about 80% of the things that are advertised work as intended, and have minor issues at most. Nice-to-have stuff is another question, but an app that is intended as a gaming aid should be actually useable, and useful, to that purpose on release day.

Boarding Action rules and new Mustering Rules are up

FW point costs were added to the field manual:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/yjHP7Y5opT8kkexf.pdf


Automatically Appended Next Post:
70 point earthshakers are going to cause a bit of gnashing of teeth I feel.

 Trickstick wrote:
FW point costs were added to the field manual:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/yjHP7Y5opT8kkexf.pdf


Automatically Appended Next Post:
70 point earthshakers are going to cause a bit of gnashing of teeth I feel.

Note that they could not be arsed to include the points values for the HH stuff for Space Marines, CSM and their relatives, but they did in fact add points for the Astraeus grav-tank and the Thunderhawk for Space Marines, for which we do not have Datasheets yet.

Edit: and the FW Tyranids are suspiciously lacking the Dimachaeron and Malanthrope.

 Trickstick wrote:
FW point costs were added to the field manual:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/yjHP7Y5opT8kkexf.pdf

70 point earthshakers are going to cause a bit of gnashing of teeth I feel.

I'm genuinely surprised that the Rapier is still in for the Guard.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
FW point costs were added to the field manual:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/yjHP7Y5opT8kkexf.pdf


Automatically Appended Next Post:
70 point earthshakers are going to cause a bit of gnashing of teeth I feel.

Note that they could not be arsed to include the points values for the HH stuff for Space Marines, CSM and their relatives, but they did in fact add points for the Astraeus grav-tank and the Thunderhawk for Space Marines, for which we do not have Datasheets yet.

Edit: and the FW Tyranids are suspiciously lacking the Dimachaeron and Malanthrope.

These are just the points for competitive games, it excludes Legends. I'm told via Discord that we'll get the IA datasheets tomorrow.

Not sure how/when the Legends point values are coming.

 xttz wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
FW point costs were added to the field manual:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/yjHP7Y5opT8kkexf.pdf


Automatically Appended Next Post:
70 point earthshakers are going to cause a bit of gnashing of teeth I feel.

Note that they could not be arsed to include the points values for the HH stuff for Space Marines, CSM and their relatives, but they did in fact add points for the Astraeus grav-tank and the Thunderhawk for Space Marines, for which we do not have Datasheets yet.

Edit: and the FW Tyranids are suspiciously lacking the Dimachaeron and Malanthrope.

These are just the points for competitive games, it excludes Legends. I'm told via Discord that we'll get the IA datasheets tomorrow.

Not sure how/when the Legends point values are coming.

Most interesting, and thanks for your continued support of this thread!

So now with the 1.1 points update, we already know which units will be featured in tomorrow's IA index

Little Timmy will get to field all 3 of their Thunderhawks in all the tourneys!!!11

No engineers, vendetta, thudd gun, medusa, bombard, minotaur.

 Trickstick wrote:
No engineers, vendetta, thudd gun, medusa, bombard, minotaur.

It seems like this list is just what can be included in competitive games, and IA Index ≠ IA Legends

 Trickstick wrote:
No engineers, vendetta, thudd gun, medusa, bombard, minotaur.

Engineers are almost 100% certain to be coming in plastic.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
No engineers, vendetta, thudd gun, medusa, bombard, minotaur.

Engineers are almost 100% certain to be coming in plastic.

On what do you base this certainity?

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
No engineers, vendetta, thudd gun, medusa, bombard, minotaur.

Engineers are almost 100% certain to be coming in plastic.

On what do you base this certainity?

There's art in the Octarius and Ork books of a slightly reworked Engineer unit.

 Kanluwen wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Trickstick wrote:
No engineers, vendetta, thudd gun, medusa, bombard, minotaur.

Engineers are almost 100% certain to be coming in plastic.

On what do you base this certainity?

There's art in the Octarius and Ork books of a slightly reworked Engineer unit.

Makes sense - OTOH, wasn't there also some artwork of redone Death Riders that (so far) never amounted to anything? Around the time 9th edition came out iirc?

Tsagualsa wrote:

Makes sense - OTOH, wasn't there also some artwork of redone Death Riders that (so far) never amounted to anything? Around the time 9th edition came out iirc?

There was a misidentified Rough Riders and a FW Death Riders for two different pieces of art.

I would not be shocked if the other pieces are coming in plastic too. Valkyrie is way long in the tooth and a refreshed kit could work. Same with the Basilisk.

For 110 points, the engineers could have been included with the drill again.

I have to wonder what it is about the Macharius Vulcan that makes it worth 310 points, or the Hierodules that make them worth 305.

I mean... the Macharius and Vanquisher variant are going to get TL on their main guns, aren't they?

 Kanluwen wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

Makes sense - OTOH, wasn't there also some artwork of redone Death Riders that (so far) never amounted to anything? Around the time 9th edition came out iirc?

There was a misidentified Rough Riders and a FW Death Riders for two different pieces of art.

I would not be shocked if the other pieces are coming in plastic too. Valkyrie is way long in the tooth and a refreshed kit could work. Same with the Basilisk.

Basilisk desperately needs a redone kit. Combo it with the Medusa again. Valkyrie is fine as a kit. A plastic Thunderbolt or Lightning would be a lot better. Or even a Vulture.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

Makes sense - OTOH, wasn't there also some artwork of redone Death Riders that (so far) never amounted to anything? Around the time 9th edition came out iirc?

There was a misidentified Rough Riders and a FW Death Riders for two different pieces of art.

I would not be shocked if the other pieces are coming in plastic too. Valkyrie is way long in the tooth and a refreshed kit could work. Same with the Basilisk.

Basilisk desperately needs a redone kit. Combo it with the Medusa again. Valkyrie is fine as a kit. A plastic Thunderbolt or Lightning would be a lot better. Or even a Vulture.

If they redo the Basilisk it'll probably be in the context of a new Chimera base kit, and that in turn will probably consume a serious amount of release slots for an edition.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

Makes sense - OTOH, wasn't there also some artwork of redone Death Riders that (so far) never amounted to anything? Around the time 9th edition came out iirc?

There was a misidentified Rough Riders and a FW Death Riders for two different pieces of art.

I would not be shocked if the other pieces are coming in plastic too. Valkyrie is way long in the tooth and a refreshed kit could work. Same with the Basilisk.

Basilisk desperately needs a redone kit. Combo it with the Medusa again. Valkyrie is fine as a kit. A plastic Thunderbolt or Lightning would be a lot better. Or even a Vulture.

If they redo the Basilisk it'll probably be in the context of a new Chimera base kit, and that in turn will probably consume a serious amount of release slots for an edition.

The Chimaera was updated a couple editions back. The current basilisk kit uses the old 3rd edition gun and platform sprue with the newer Chimaera hull. It's just the Basilisk parts that need redone, not the whole vehicle.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

Makes sense - OTOH, wasn't there also some artwork of redone Death Riders that (so far) never amounted to anything? Around the time 9th edition came out iirc?

There was a misidentified Rough Riders and a FW Death Riders for two different pieces of art.

I would not be shocked if the other pieces are coming in plastic too. Valkyrie is way long in the tooth and a refreshed kit could work. Same with the Basilisk.

Basilisk desperately needs a redone kit. Combo it with the Medusa again. Valkyrie is fine as a kit. A plastic Thunderbolt or Lightning would be a lot better. Or even a Vulture.

If they redo the Basilisk it'll probably be in the context of a new Chimera base kit, and that in turn will probably consume a serious amount of release slots for an edition.

The Chimaera was updated a couple editions back. The current basilisk kit uses the old 3rd edition gun and platform sprue with the newer Chimaera hull. It's just the Basilisk parts that need redone, not the whole vehicle.

That makes more sense, it's reasonable to assume that it will get redone next round then (and probably get the obligatory dual-build with either something existing or a totally new thingy in the process). I assume you could just leave off the longer part of the barrel and add some recoil dampeners etc. to transform it into a Medusa or something similar.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I have to wonder what it is about the Macharius Vulcan that makes it worth 310 points

Datamine has 48"/16A/4+/S6/AP-1/D2, demolisher-like special rule.

Tsagualsa wrote:

If they redo the Basilisk it'll probably be in the context of a new Chimera base kit, and that in turn will probably consume a serious amount of release slots for an edition.

There's already a "new" Chimera base kit.

That's been part of the issue with the Basilisk going on however many years it has been since the Chimera got reworked. It's why the Basilisk came with a vehicle accessory sprue once they ran out of the "old" Chimeras, and apparently still does. The frame provided for the hull does not feature any of the hull mounted weapons--thus Vehicle Accessory Sprue provides you the Heavy Flamer to use.
A "new" Basilisk could simply be a single sprue, much like the Hydra/Wyvern is for the Chimera.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

Basilisk desperately needs a redone kit. Combo it with the Medusa again.

I think the Basilisk might be in line for a total revamp, giving it either the Vanaheim or Armageddon pattern look options built in.

Valkyrie is fine as a kit. A plastic Thunderbolt or Lightning would be a lot better. Or even a Vulture.

I'd love a Vulture in plastic to finish out my air support wing, but I'm definitely thinking the Valkyrie is up for a redo. It was one of their earliest 3D scanned resin to plastic kits, and they could do much better fits now.

Some whispers from a previously reliable source:

Large rules update for release "very soon", possibly tomorrow
Eldar and TSons nerfs
Unspecified changes for some other factions