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Oh joy! Most KT boxes in Japan got a stealth price increase of 600Y extra. That's a bit over 9%. I hope that this is just GW being a bunch of jerks and not bothering to warn Japan about the upcoming prices rather than double dipping.

M.

 Miguelsan wrote:
Oh joy! Most KT boxes in Japan got a stealth price increase of 600Y extra. That's a bit over 9%. I hope that this is just GW being a bunch of jerks and not bothering to warn Japan about the upcoming prices rather than double dipping.

But they're a business. You shouldn't complain.

Ahhhh. How did I fail to realize that...

I don't need more KT in my life currently, but at those prices I think I can get better deals by buying in the EU and getting it shipped to Japan.

Or even better buying a 3d printer like a huge number of players already did.

M.

 Miguelsan wrote:
Ahhhh. How did I fail to realize that...

Just do what I'm doing: Humans don't need food of water, right? So we go without that to afford the new plastic.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:
Ahhhh. How did I fail to realize that...

Just do what I'm doing: Humans don't need food of water, right? So we go without that to afford the new plastic.

I'll see if I can find an unatended baby or two around too. I heard you can sell them at a good price. Got to contribute my quota to GW like a good citizen.

M.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:
Ahhhh. How did I fail to realize that...

Just do what I'm doing: Humans don't need food of water, right? So we go without that to afford the new plastic.

Finally the advantage of being very small!
You all need to eat much more!

Looking back, last few years, the only miniatures I been investing less into has been GW. So price increases here, and the community failing won’t really be a issue for me. But I do think it’s sad when passionate players lose something they love.

 Platuan4th wrote:
Pretty sure the stock issues, being sold to a different company, and uncertainty of the game's future have way more to do with people not getting into Legion than "Star Wars haters". And that's before accounting for how hard it is to get an established community into a new game.

Plus being based on a licensed IP limits new releases. GW can release new models every week, but Legion you're lucky if you get a new unit per quarter. Especially since AMG were forced to take over and none of the games original developers are involved any more.

 Albertorius wrote:

ccs wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I wonder what expenses they expect their customers to cut from their lives in order to continue feeding the habit.

I choose paint.
My Grey plastic/base coated stuff seems to play just as well as painted stuff....

After that comes stuff like White Dwarf on a regular basis, & filler material like AoO.

Funnily enough, just a base with a cardboard cutout does also play just as well

Eh, I've always preferred 3d minis myself.
What exact color they are is not something I've ever been overly concerned with though. Just give me a decent sculpt. Or a sculpt I like. (Decent sculpt & sculpt I like are not always the same thing.)

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Miguelsan wrote:
Ahhhh. How did I fail to realize that...

Just do what I'm doing: Humans don't need food of water, right? So we go without that to afford the new plastic.

Just walk out your back door and slay a kangaroo, there's plenty of floodwater in Queensland just put it through a Brita filter and you've got plenty to eat and drink

 Miguelsan wrote:

I'll see if I can find an unatended baby or two around too. I heard you can sell them at a good price. Got to contribute my quota to GW like a good citizen.

M.

My kind of humour (which would be expected from a fellow Mishiman)

Aecus Decimus wrote:
In product quality maybe, but in rules? It's a major concern.

it was a concern
main problem is that AMG does not have the manpower to care about all games they got the same way
for Star Wars Legion, the community is very happy with the rules update from AMG and already consider it to be a big improvement over FFG and though balance of some heroes is still off, it is better than with 40k
Shatterpoint now is a direct competitor to Kill Team/Necromunda and with Escalation rules for Legion there is now also a competition for small scale 40k/Crusade

the main concern is not if AMG can handle it but how long it will take


Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

ccs wrote:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
I wonder what expenses they expect their customers to cut from their lives in order to continue feeding the habit.

I choose paint.
My Grey plastic/base coated stuff seems to play just as well as painted stuff....

After that comes stuff like White Dwarf on a regular basis, & filler material like AoO.

Funnily enough, just a base with a cardboard cutout does also play just as well

but than there is no point in playing a GW game in the first place
Papercraft Wargming is fun and cheap but don't need to spend money on the GW rules for that

so the easiest cut is not spending money on GW rules and still use the models I like

 kodos wrote:
but than there is no point in playing a GW game in the first place
Papercraft Wargming is fun and cheap but don't need to spend money on the GW rules for that

so the easiest cut is not spending money on GW rules and still use the models I like

Of course there's a point. It's playing the GW game. Just because you think GW games are bad doesn't mean everyone agrees with you. A game is a game. Rules are just way to play it, there's no "good" or "bad" rules as long as everyone agrees to play them.

And models were always just game tokens to play it. Can be replaced with anything, in reality. Even empty bases with the name of the model written on it.

So it depends if your focus in on the models or the game. Papercraft is for people focusing on the game who don't care much about the Hobby. Same for people using online tools like Tabletop Simulator.

Why GW games instead of others ? Simply put, it's because it's easier to find players. You play faster when you already have people knowing the rules in opposite of using an obscure game system no one knows before - no matter how "good" it is said to be by its fans whose number you can count on the fingers on one hand. The universal truth of games is that you can't enjoy a game you can't play because you're unable to find players to play it with you.

good points, but GW rules are a major cost factor as well

miniature gaming is always has a focus on miniatures, therefore "I don't like certain minis" is a point for not playing certain games

pay for expensive rules that last only several months until they are replaced by expansive rules again, just because it is easier to find players in theory but you cannot afford to pay for the miniatures to play that specific miniature game is the wrong solution to the problem
because as soon as you go for cheaper replacement of the miniatures, finding players that are willing to play against you is not easier than finding players for other games

hence it is the better solution to buy GW models and play OPR-GDF instead of buying OPR Cardboard tokens to play 40k

We actually do not know if the rules for 10th are going to be expensive... They just might implement the living digital rule set the game is crying out for, they may even provide the rules completely free?

Of course I am absolutely incorrect and they will charge through the roof for rules again, but it sure would be nice.

 kodos wrote:
but than there is no point in playing a GW game in the first place
Papercraft Wargming is fun and cheap but don't need to spend money on the GW rules for that

so the easiest cut is not spending money on GW rules and still use the models I like

I don't exactly see this as a bad thing. But also, people also play GW games for the lore.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
We actually do not know if the rules for 10th are going to be expensive... They just might implement the living digital rule set the game is crying out for, they may even provide the rules completely free?

Core rules may be available to download from their site for free, sure, but no way that overall the "full game" (meaning everything you "need" to play like codexes and so on) they'll be completely free. That's not their business model.

TBH, in comparison to all the money you need to build your whole army of models, rules will always be in comparison "cheaper". So focusing on the game only and "just" buying the rules while using models from elsewhere / papercraft will be always an option.

And yes I know there are cheaper rule systems elsewhere on the market, but like I said ; you can't enjoy a game you can't play because you're unable to find players to play with. I have way too many rule systems taking dust on my shelves that won't see a game anytime soon for that sole reason...and that I can technically say I bought them for nothing and was "lost money", in the end.

Happy whale hunting GW.

 kodos wrote:
Shatterpoint now is a direct competitor to Kill Team/Necromunda

Based on what we've seen so far I don't think that's true at all. Shatterpoint is a superhero fighting game (the only thing AMG knows how to make, which is how they ruined X-Wing) re-skinned with some Star Wars characters and a completely different miniature scale, Kill Team is a squad-scale skirmish game using models from the larger game, and Necromunda is a narrative-focused skirmish game with a level of customizing "your dudes" that is anathema to AMG's design principles. The only thing Shatterpoint has in common with the GW games is that it uses a roughly similar number of miniatures.

(Which of course works both ways. Shatterpoint is unlikely to draw many GW customers but GW's games are unlikely to draw many customers away from Shatterpoint, if it succeeds in attracting any.)

TBH in one of my local stores this price hike and the general bloat of 9th edition and GW constantly screwing over game stores with pre-orders may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. We're already talking about getting into Bolt Action and I've sold maybe half the people on it (it's a rather small group, maybe a dozen people at most).

At some point people will get fed up with the constant price hikes.

I can’t imagine a dozen people being considered a small group of players. We once had eight semi regular attendees and our minds were blown to have such a congregation: )

Wayniac wrote:
TBH in one of my local stores this price hike and the general bloat of 9th edition and GW constantly screwing over game stores with pre-orders may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. We're already talking about getting into Bolt Action and I've sold maybe half the people on it (it's a rather small group, maybe a dozen people at most).

At some point people will get fed up with the constant price hikes.

I have seen almost this exact same post made across multiple forums across multiple editions since, oh probably 4th ed? I believe many of those people did in fact move onto other games / rulesets / miniature ranges (I know I did), but the problem is there’s clearly been enough people replacing us that GW just don’t care.

Roll Three Dice wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
TBH in one of my local stores this price hike and the general bloat of 9th edition and GW constantly screwing over game stores with pre-orders may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. We're already talking about getting into Bolt Action and I've sold maybe half the people on it (it's a rather small group, maybe a dozen people at most).

At some point people will get fed up with the constant price hikes.

I have seen almost this exact same post made across multiple forums across multiple editions since, oh probably 4th ed? I believe many of those people did in fact move onto other games / rulesets / miniature ranges (I know I did), but the problem is there’s clearly been enough people replacing us that GW just don’t care.

And I would say a large majority of those people come running back when the next 'bestest ever' version of the rules come out. Until eventually bloat creeps in and the cycle repeats.
There's been a massive amount of people using their 40k stuff for Xenos Rampant. I expect many to vanish this summer of 10th.

Roll Three Dice wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
TBH in one of my local stores this price hike and the general bloat of 9th edition and GW constantly screwing over game stores with pre-orders may be the straw that breaks the camel's back. We're already talking about getting into Bolt Action and I've sold maybe half the people on it (it's a rather small group, maybe a dozen people at most).

At some point people will get fed up with the constant price hikes.

I have seen almost this exact same post made across multiple forums across multiple editions since, oh probably 4th ed? I believe many of those people did in fact move onto other games / rulesets / miniature ranges (I know I did), but the problem is there’s clearly been enough people replacing us that GW just don’t care.

Exactly. People prophetising the "big change" since so many years just don't understand the dynamics behind and the fact GW shops have as first purpose to recruit, not cater to old players. That's why GW is so successfull in comparison to other companies who don't invest enough money in recruiting new blood on a professionnal level (just relying on other players / independant stores to do their job for free is cute and all, but sadly it's not dependable on long term). That's also why GW is still the big one after so many years : their own network is strongly implanted and never stops, on the opposite of their so called competition. The fun part is that this "competition" is actually leaning a lot on GW's own network to make their own advertisement. For example, Mantic Games do attract a good number of disgrunted GW customers...if GW was to suddenly disappear, something tells me these competitors will actually get hurt a lot, because they would lose one of their main ways to recruit new players themselves.

IF that network gets seriously crippled, like GW suddenly decide they don't need their GW shops because they cost too much money and close them all, THEN we can talk about a real decline in recruiting on long term. It won't be fast, it will be more like a slow decline, but unless they have someone REALLY STUPID at the head of their company and there's absolutely no resistance inside the company about it, it's unlikely to happen. It can, of course, because that's how stupid things happen (having stupid people at the top), but you shouldn't underestimate the strength of already existing networks and the tendancy of people to look after established and safe places rather than undependable risky "new" ones (that's why Twitter is still around so far). After all, the investment made to create it has already been funded so many years ago. All it needs is proper maintenance.

You can't enjoy a game you can't play because you're unable to find players to play it with you, after all. That's the main reason people who want something else go back to GW : they tried a new system, they found no one to play with / have too many difficulties to get what they need to play, they get bored / tired and thus go back to a place where they can at least find some fun.

No one wants to waste their time if they can't have some fun in the end. That's the trick : building miniatures, painting them, building a table with decors...all of that takes a lot of time (and money). No one wants it to be for nothing but pain and a hole in their wallet : even if the price of the new game is cheaper than GW, it's definitely no time invested free. At least with GW models, they know they can have somewhat of a value by reselling them...which is totally not the same case with other obscure miniature / game ranges. That's why people thinking a bit more ahead tend not to jump on the next new shiny ship appearing and promising "better rules" and "cheaper miniatures". Because they know a new game means investing a lot of time in learning it, not to talk about investment in money for the new materials needed to play / supporting the company producing the game. And that's with the uncertainty of finding someone to play with.

The terrible truth about life is that our own free time is definitely finite on this earth. Wasting it feels like a cut in your belly when it happens...and God knows it did happen to me a lot in my young time supporting these new shiny companies, not many still around after all these years...leaving me with memories and obscure miniatures on my shelves no one wants unless it's sold at a small fraction of what I bought them at that time. Because these dead games have no value for the common of mortals, even in the gaming community.

Sarouan wrote:


The terrible truth about life is that our own free time is definitely finite on this earth. Wasting it feels like a cut in your belly when it happens...and God knows it did happen to me a lot in my young time supporting these new shiny companies, not many still around after all these years...leaving me with memories and obscure miniatures on my shelves no one wants unless it's sold at a small fraction of what I bought them at that time. Because these dead games have no value for the common of mortals, even in the gaming community.

Can be huge value in the memories though - I wouldn't write that off as wasted. At least if it was enjoyable at the time.

The thing about the "people to play with" point though often misses the fact that you only actually need one person to play with. You can enjoy the game with just one other person to play against, if that's what you want to do. I'd imagine most games of 40K still happen at homes, not clubs, just like Magic The Gathering.

I think what's more likely in these cases is that people aren't looking for someone to have a game against, they're looking for a community to join. And that's totally valid and really important for many people who maybe don't get that elsewhere. And GW games give you an easy in to a community. But if that's not what you're looking for, if it's just you and a mate or two or three, then jump around, try different systems, experiment - there's plenty of fun to be had.

deano2099 wrote:

Can be huge value in the memories though - I wouldn't write that off as wasted. At least if it was enjoyable at the time.

The thing about the "people to play with" point though often misses the fact that you only actually need one person to play with. You can enjoy the game with just one other person to play against, if that's what you want to do. I'd imagine most games of 40K still happen at homes, not clubs, just like Magic The Gathering.

I think what's more likely in these cases is that people aren't looking for someone to have a game against, they're looking for a community to join. And that's totally valid and really important for many people who maybe don't get that elsewhere. And GW games give you an easy in to a community. But if that's not what you're looking for, if it's just you and a mate or two or three, then jump around, try different systems, experiment - there's plenty of fun to be had.

Yes, that's all that's left : the few times I had fun with these miniatures. I know that when I die, they'll probably get dumped into a trashcan. Ah sorry, I'm getting sentimental.

I do indeed keep a small group of friends with who I play old games. However, I'm cruelly aware that time keeps going on and I did lose people over the years simply because they weren't interested to play anymore / had no more time with their job / family...or they died. Replacing them is the tricky part...because I found new players don't exactly want to play multiple different game systems (especially old ones), even if they're the best in the world. Their gaming time is finite too...

Sarouan wrote:

deano2099 wrote:

Can be huge value in the memories though - I wouldn't write that off as wasted. At least if it was enjoyable at the time.

The thing about the "people to play with" point though often misses the fact that you only actually need one person to play with. You can enjoy the game with just one other person to play against, if that's what you want to do. I'd imagine most games of 40K still happen at homes, not clubs, just like Magic The Gathering.

I think what's more likely in these cases is that people aren't looking for someone to have a game against, they're looking for a community to join. And that's totally valid and really important for many people who maybe don't get that elsewhere. And GW games give you an easy in to a community. But if that's not what you're looking for, if it's just you and a mate or two or three, then jump around, try different systems, experiment - there's plenty of fun to be had.

Yes, that's all that's left : the few times I had fun with these miniatures. I know that when I die, they'll probably get dumped into a trashcan. Ah sorry, I'm getting sentimental.

I do indeed keep a small group of friends with who I play old games. However, I'm cruelly aware that time keeps going on and I did lose people over the years simply because they weren't interested to play anymore / had no more time with their job / family...or they died. Replacing them is the tricky part...because I found new players don't exactly want to play multiple different game systems (especially old ones), even if they're the best in the world. Their gaming time is finite too...

Honestly if what you really care about in the hobby is interesting systems and fun rules, get into board gaming. Find a local group and you'll see all sorts of brilliant systems for play. You may even find someone interested in playing a few games with a defunct old wargaming system you have a bunch of ready-to-go painted models with.

Wargames are certainly fun if what you want to do is immerse yourself in a single system, get excited about new releases, re-enact historical battles (fictional or otherwise) and paint stuff that looks great, but if you want to find a group that values playing different stuff and exploration, look for board gamers.

(Of course, over/under if your local area will have a board game group also, but in my experience they're about as common as 40K groups these days)

Taschengelddieb has published a list of products that go up in price (Euro prices):

https://www.facebook.com/Taschengelddieb (first post)

It's not a complete list though, they just posted a few random pages. Quite a few kits go up by 10% or more, also a lot of fairly recent kits such as the new World Eaters and Astra Militarum models.

 stahly wrote:
Taschengelddieb has published a list of products that go up in price (Euro prices):

https://www.facebook.com/Taschengelddieb (first post)

It's not a complete list though, he just posted a few random pages. Quite a few kits go up by 10% or more, also a lot of fairly recent kits such as the new World Eaters and Astra Militarum models.

Scummy, and points toward them deliberately instilling FOMO for their preorders if that trend continues. Not the most customer-friendly practice.

 stahly wrote:
Taschengelddieb has published a list of products that go up in price (Euro prices):

https://www.facebook.com/Taschengelddieb (first post)

It's not a complete list though, they just posted a few random pages. Quite a few kits go up by 10% or more, also a lot of fairly recent kits such as the new World Eaters and Astra Militarum models.

The € prices are not as awful as I was expecting, having seen some of the US price conversions previously.

But seeing this list really shows just how awful their pricing is all around. Raising the price of a Start collecting set by €10 that is just weeks away from being removed from shelves anyway. €15 for a single pack of necromunda cards. €30 for a single Daughters of Khaine champion- not far off the price of an entire unit box set.

I won't stop buying models, but I'll stick to my value purchasing only- If I can get them at a discount, force extra value out of a set by not 'following the instructions' as written and can be used in more than one game, and can be used for older games which are either free, cheap or available online. I'll never buy into edition chasing again.

There is still quite a lot of value in the majority of their models sets. A Necromunda gang and a copy of all the old rules will set you back the grand total of the necromunda gang set. Thats a good bit of painting and gaming from a single box alone. When you start chasing the constant rule updates and extra cards, dice & books/white dwarf is where you will see the costs mount up.

Does anyone have a list of the increases for the UK yet?