Warhammer Preview at AdeptiCon - 22nd March

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**Smaug**

gorgon wrote:
My position regarding Epic continues to be that I don't understand why GW would be keen to jump back into the 6mm tank and infantry space. Their competitive advantage is with bigger kits. There are plenty of third-party sculpts and 3D print designs available for the smaller units that look like their 28mm counterparts with a very good level of detail. I don't see what's in GW for them other than continuing to push the existing plane and Titan kits. And they don't really need a new Epic game to do that. Also, I agree that the Epic customer base (not enormous for sure, but you'd still want them on board) will want their xenos and Chaos factions.

And overall, this feels like the same old preview cycle where people like Valrak get the fan base ginned up for all these huge reveals, only to receive a more pedestrian lineup. Which might still be cool stuff, but not the everything plus the kitchen sink that was 'promised'.

GW is probably protecting their trademarks. Didn’t they send out a bunch of cease and desist notices a few weeks ago?
If the setting is in the heresy then it probably just needs armies for marines, guard, and mechanicus. Unfortunately they’re going to get flooded with requests for the xenos armies that already have aircraft.

**endlesswaltz123**

Voss wrote:
MajorWesJanson wrote:
gorgon wrote:
And overall, this feels like the same old preview cycle where people like Valrak get the fan base ginned up for all these huge reveals, only to receive a more pedestrian lineup. Which might still be cool stuff, but not the everything plus the kitchen sink that was 'promised'.

So many people are going to be mad at GW when a new edition of Epic is not announced or even teased when they now expect it.

I guess they can be if they want, but between the active game systems, Old World and various misc stuff, even if Epic is underway, it will be 3-4 years minimum. The edition cycle for 40k and AoS is too short, and with HH and TOW on top, plus necromunda and kill team, there just isn't a lot of room to expect a meaningful announcement. Just little teases like this one.

Probably not that far away actually. GW did at one time discuss that the true advantage of their new design methods (CAD) is that they can easily scale up/down models when needed and required.

Yes it isn't as quick as clicking a button, but it is a lot faster than designing the model from scratch. I assume the sprue process is probably a lot more straight forward as well, as there will be hardly any models that need to have multiple parts to them.

**tneva82**

gorgon wrote:
tneva82 wrote:
gorgon wrote:
My position regarding Epic continues to be that I don't understand why GW would be keen to jump back into the 6mm tank and infantry space. Their competitive advantage is with bigger kits. There are plenty of third-party sculpts and 3D print designs available for the smaller units that look like their 28mm counterparts with a very good level of detail. I don't see what's in GW for them other than continuing to push the existing plane and Titan kits. And they don't really need a new Epic game to do that. Also, I agree that the Epic customer base (not enormous for sure, but you'd still want them on board) will want their xenos and Chaos factions.

And overall, this feels like the same old preview cycle where people like Valrak get the fan base ginned up for all these huge reveals, only to receive a more pedestrian lineup. Which might still be cool stuff, but not the everything plus the kitchen sink that was 'promised'.

Get money from customers rather than leave for others to benefit? The sales they lose by not selling epic doesn't go to gw.

As for xenos etc that's matter of logistic. 100 new plastic sprue is too much to expect right away. Epic started as hh due to logistics and it's just gone more pressing in time due to increased factions, units and removal of metal models.

Gw was stupid enough to think by removing other games customers just transfer purchases to 40k which is flat out wrong. Maybe they learned from mistake.

But does the infantry sprue sales opportunity really warrant the release of a new game? And it'd have to be a new game, because AT is a system designed around the micromanagement of Titans. It already starts to break down with Knight armies.

Of course, there's a chance that nu-Epic is more of an "Epic" in that it is just AT 2.0 with the option for a sidecar of planes or tanks, similar to how Knights work alongside Titan maniples. That would seem to me to be the most believable scenario.

Regarding xenos, yes, it would potentially be an ungodly amount of SKUs. But my comment was about what the customers WANT. And I think both the Epic vets and people new to the game would be much more interested if more factions existed for the game. There's no doubt in my mind that it's held AT back, even as I understand why and think it's a great game.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MajorWesJanson wrote:
So many people are going to be mad at GW when a new edition of Epic is not announced or even teased when they now expect it.

The fanbase is even more convinced that the Lion is coming to 40K, so the response to a letdown there oughta be really fun.

Infantry, vehicles, eventually xenos. Lots of sale pontial gw would leave away.

Last time gw did epic with minor support they exceeded own expectations by 400%

**Tsagualsa**

gorgon wrote:

But does the infantry sprue sales opportunity really warrant the release of a new game?

Does the possibility of selling some boxes justify the publishing of WarCry? Are the boxed games even profitable? What's in it for GW if they release a new BloodBowl season? We don't really know what their management processes are and how they even calculate 'success' by their internal metrics, and sometimes their seemingly random processes make it look like they don't know either

We also only have the vaguest of rumours, people are quick to imagine that 'Epic 30k' would be a full side-game with boxes and blisters and customizable forces etc., but it might as well be just a single box with a couple of infantry sprues and some tank squadrons etc. like the original Epic box. Releasing a rando box and never showing any support beyond WD rules to use your existing AI planes and stuff with it would be far from the weirdest thing GW has done recently.

**GaroRobe**

What's going on with the leak?

Dante's model is being shown off on Valrak's stream

Note that this is a screenshot from of the stream on my laptop, the real pics note on a potato cam

**Tsagualsa**

GaroRobe wrote:
What's going on with the leak?

Dante's model is being shown off on Valrak's stream

Apparently not only that, there's more to come?

**JWBS**

Looks alright. I mentioned some time back that Infernal Brush was painting his conversion and this may signify the new model release is imminent. With this in mind I'm gonna say that Epic is also all but confirmed, as indicated by the Duncan Rhodes video.

**Tsagualsa**

Someone on the Valrak stream remarked that the Primaris helmet on the base has a partial chaos star on it... i think it's just Death Company.

**Leo_the_Rat**

My friend had a lot of epic stuff back around 2000 or so and IIRC he had not only marines (both imperial and chaos) and guard but also eldar, nids and, orcs. So I don't see why people are saying that there were no xenos.

As a side note I bet that GW still has the molds for those armies so it shouldn't be that much of a problem to get them into production.

**deleted20250424**

My Boy looks good in Primaris.

**JWBS**

People are saying there's no xenos in HH, the current epic scale game. If they choose that timeline for the new Epic, it would mean no xenos because Imperium vs 40k xenos mostly happened after the HH with some exceptions like Orks.

**GaroRobe**

Tsagualsa wrote:
Someone on the Valrak stream remarked that the Primaris helmet on the base has a partial chaos star on it... i think it's just Death Company.

It's got a red X for death company

**PenitentJake**

endlesswaltz123 wrote:

3rd edition White dwarf supplement. Well before either of the Inquisition chamber militant codex's either. Could have a Captain or Librarian within the squad. Was badass.

Huh, must have missed that issue. While I still would have preferred a full Xeno Hunter book, had I known about this back in the day, I might have been less bitter.

**Kid_Kyoto**

At this stage anything less than Epic, Battlefleet Gothic, The Old World, the DA Primarch and Codex Arbites will be a let down.

**H.B.M.C.**

I dunno... I just don't see them announcing 10th until after the Ark books are done.

**tneva82**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:
At this stage anything less than Epic, Battlefleet Gothic, The Old World, the DA Primarch and Codex Arbites will be a let down.

Only if you let it be so.

**Moopy**

Dante??? Didn't they say he was too old to become Primaris safely? I know Mephiston advised against it. Huh!!

Dear god I hope for some sort of new infantry in HH. But I'll settle for a Fellblade. I'll have to.

**tneva82**

Money says he's not too old

**H.B.M.C.**

Moopy wrote:
Didn't they say he was too old to become Primaris safely?

The fluff is arbitrary. It will change for whatever needs to fit whatever the miniatures department makes, or to emphasise whatever they need it to.

**Lord Damocles**

The Rubicon Primaris is so dangerous, literally anyone can cross it.

Dante's sense of motion is all messed up (again!) By his parchments not flapping in logical directions.

**MajorWesJanson**

Still makes sense that it was dangerous at first, but they have refined the process as they learned from early attempts.

**Gimgamgoo**

Ah Dante, bringing new meaning to balancing on a tactical rock.

**H.B.M.C.**

Gimgamgoo wrote:
Ah Dante, bringing new meaning to balancing on a tactical rock.

And such balance that he makes guessing his movements impossible. I mean just look at his pose? Is he taking off? Landing? Moving backwards? Forwards?

We'll never know!

**MajorWesJanson**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Gimgamgoo wrote:
Ah Dante, bringing new meaning to balancing on a tactical rock.

And such balance that he makes guessing his movements impossible. I mean just look at his pose? Is he taking off? Landing? Moving backwards? Forwards?

We'll never know!

Better this than the bent noodle flight stems.

**Overread**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
I dunno... I just don't see them announcing 10th until after the Ark books are done.

GW Marketing tends to run in 3 month cycles. So if its a June/July mid year release we are about at the point where we'd see the marketing start. Which we think we have with the sneaky eye teases that they've done recently. Which feel like they are leading up to something soonish in terms of confirming something. Because on their own they kind of appear and vanish into nothing.

I'd expect some news about 10th. Not a "here's all the models" kind but we might get to see one or two new ones (one from each side) at absolute best .

**The Phazer**

Yeah, I think it will end with some kind of further animated tease in a similar vein to the one we got last week. They won't explicitly say 10th is coming, but just "something" and allude to Terminators vs Nids a bit more.

It wouldn't surprise me if the two shorts we've seen so far are both extracts from a 45 second ish tease that will be shown.

**Tsagualsa**

The Phazer wrote:
Yeah, I think it will end with some kind of further animated tease in a similar vein to the one we got last week. They won't explicitly say 10th is coming, but just "something" and allude to Terminators vs Nids a bit more.

It wouldn't surprise me if the two shorts we've seen so far are both extracts from a 45 second ish tease that will be shown.

I am personally convinced that they can and will not resist the temptation to call it 'X' edition

**The Phazer**

Leo_the_Rat wrote:
My friend had a lot of epic stuff back around 2000 or so and IIRC he had not only marines (both imperial and chaos) and guard but also eldar, nids and, orcs. So I don't see why people are saying that there were no xenos.

As a side note I bet that GW still has the molds for those armies so it shouldn't be that much of a problem to get them into production.

There wasn't any Xenos in Epic when it launched, because it was a HH game. They were added and the setting shifted to 40k later on. This was a long time before the year 2000.

Given the scale will be different from AT they won't be reusing any of the Epic 40,000 models I think, though Epic 40,000 did have quite wacky internal scale so you could probably get away with the odd unit (Dreads were huge for example).

**Tsagualsa**

The Phazer wrote:
Leo_the_Rat wrote:
My friend had a lot of epic stuff back around 2000 or so and IIRC he had not only marines (both imperial and chaos) and guard but also eldar, nids and, orcs. So I don't see why people are saying that there were no xenos.

As a side note I bet that GW still has the molds for those armies so it shouldn't be that much of a problem to get them into production.

There wasn't any Xenos in Epic when it launched, because it was a HH game. They were added and the setting shifted to 40k later on. This was a long time before the year 2000.

Given the scale will be different from AT they won't be reusing any of the Epic 40,000 models I think, though Epic 40,000 did have quite wacky internal scale so you could probably get away with the odd unit (Dreads were huge for example).

If they orient themselves more towards AT/AI scale that's about the right size to do a lot of units by doing a general 'hull' sprue for e.g. Rhinos and having the turrets and stuff as add-on pieces. There are only a handful of non-superheavy SM tank hulls in HH, depending on how you packed them you could get by with a handful of boxes and several upgrade packs.

**Vermis**

gorgon wrote:My position regarding Epic continues to be that I don't understand why GW would be keen to jump back into the 6mm tank and infantry space. Their competitive advantage is with bigger kits. There are plenty of third-party sculpts and 3D print designs available for the smaller units that look like their 28mm counterparts with a very good level of detail.

There's a pile of ashes and melted plastic that used to be a dark elf army, somewhere, that demonstrates how allergic some people can be to the air outside the protective GW bubble.

If GW release a new edition of epic, the playerbase will spike. At least until they're sat there with their working rules and complete armies and decide it's 'unsupported' again.