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You have got to be trolling us right now... I've clearly explained how you "make" a critical wound. What don't you understand about that?

For the pipedream... What does the Imperial Guard Born Soldiers trait do? What did judgement tokens do in the Votann codex and have to be specifically nerfed pre-release before anyone could use them?

Seriously, you can't parse the preview/teaser articles, you can't parse the explanations given and there is now evidence you've missed two of the most significant 9th edition army wide rules of 2023 (or failed to understand them).

Dude. There is literally nothing that happens if you make a critical wound unless you have a USR or ability that interacts with it. Good grief.

You're trying to make an absurd issue out of nothing.

I'm not a huge fan of the critical hit/wound terminology currently. It puts an extra layer between you and what you need to do. That said, it also strikes me as something that will quickly become obvious even to those of us that only play every now and then, at which point I suspect I'll have a vaguely positive view of them. Time will tell!

DeadliestIdiot wrote:
I'm not a huge fan of the critical hit/wound terminology currently. It puts an extra layer between you and what you need to do. That said, it also strikes me as something that will quickly become obvious even to those of us that only play every now and then, at which point I suspect I'll have a vaguely positive view of them. Time will tell!

yeah, its litterally just a replacement for

"on a hit/wound roll of 6, do something"
coupled with
"6's always hit/wound"

its litterally super simple

Faction Focus: Chaos Space Marines

 Valkyrie wrote:
Faction Focus: Chaos Space Marines

Dark Pact looks to be an interesting addition. Gives CSM a lot of ways to increase their lethality at a cost.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Faction Focus: Chaos Space Marines

Dark Pact looks to be an interesting addition. Gives CSM a lot of ways to increase their lethality at a cost.

Yeah, but it looks like that cost will be pretty minimal if you take Icons everywhere you can. Interesting approach to it, though.

We also see they get "heavy melee weapons" which seem to be stand-ins for powerfists, chainglaives etc. Hopefully we get similar things for units like Plague Marines to simplify their array of very similar close combat weapons.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Faction Focus: Chaos Space Marines

Dark Pact looks to be an interesting addition. Gives CSM a lot of ways to increase their lethality at a cost.

I really like this dynamic they're giving CSM. Makes me wonder what the other characters will do.

“The datasheets for Chaos Space Marines are less cooperative or synergistic than their Imperial counterparts – rather, they are more about the selfish use of power to destroy their foes.”

Slipspace wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Faction Focus: Chaos Space Marines

Dark Pact looks to be an interesting addition. Gives CSM a lot of ways to increase their lethality at a cost.

Yeah, but it looks like that cost will be pretty minimal if you take Icons everywhere you can. Interesting approach to it, though.

We also see they get "heavy melee weapons" which seem to be stand-ins for powerfists, chainglaives etc. Hopefully we get similar things for units like Plague Marines to simplify their array of very similar close combat weapons.

I'm glad they haven't done the whole "can only pick one of each weapon" fiasco we had before. I saw rumours on FB that Battlesuits will be severely limited in their weapon choices so this gives me a little hope.

Some of these stats are rather decent though. Havoc Autocannons are now D3, and Abby just giving a 4++ aura is also quite sweet.

Slipspace wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Faction Focus: Chaos Space Marines

Dark Pact looks to be an interesting addition. Gives CSM a lot of ways to increase their lethality at a cost.

Yeah, but it looks like that cost will be pretty minimal if you take Icons everywhere you can. Interesting approach to it, though.

We also see they get "heavy melee weapons" which seem to be stand-ins for powerfists, chainglaives etc. Hopefully we get similar things for units like Plague Marines to simplify their array of very similar close combat weapons.

Yea icons are only on Legionaires and Chosen, so the big stuff isn't as safe.

I know a lot of people will be unhappy about these weapon reveals. It begs the question on points costs for upgrades, too.

 Valkyrie wrote:

I'm glad they haven't done the whole "can only pick one of each weapon" fiasco we had before. I saw rumours on FB that Battlesuits will be severely limited in their weapon choices so this gives me a little hope.

Except thats exactly how it is, can't take duplicate special/heavy weapons in a squad

 Valkyrie wrote:

Some of these stats are rather decent though. Havoc Autocannons are now D3, and Abby just giving a 4++ aura is also quite sweet.

Abaddon's aura being versatile is pretty cool .

Abaddon can also join a squad. So whilst nowhere near as tough as Guilliman, he can at least pack a bunch of ablative wounds around himself.

Of course saying that without the full knowledge of how characters joining units works when it comes to who takes wounds.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:

I'm glad they haven't done the whole "can only pick one of each weapon" fiasco we had before. I saw rumours on FB that Battlesuits will be severely limited in their weapon choices so this gives me a little hope.

Except thats exactly how it is, can't take duplicate special/heavy weapons in a squad

Whoops, shouldn't have skimmed it.

Roboute goes from T6 to T9, Abaddon goes from T6 to T5. They've really toned him down from his one man army 9th edition version.

Dark pact feels like it will be a lot of meaningless re-rolls per turn.

I can't instantly work out if Dark Pact is really good or terrible, which is probably a good sign.

D3 mortal wounds for a failure might be a bit much.

Tyel wrote:
I can't instantly work out if Dark Pact is really good or terrible, which is probably a good sign.

D3 mortal wounds for a failure might be a bit much.

Upside is you get the benefit regardless of the test result.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I can't instantly work out if Dark Pact is really good or terrible, which is probably a good sign.

D3 mortal wounds for a failure might be a bit much.

Upside is you get the benefit regardless of the test result.

And rerolls for that check are probably easy to come by, the icon gives them already, probably characters like the Dark Apostle will as well.

I guess in the end it will work out as 90% successes or whatever, with the occasional reminder that Chaos is not entirely safe to dabble with.

Tyel wrote:
I can't instantly work out if Dark Pact is really good or terrible, which is probably a good sign.

D3 mortal wounds for a failure might be a bit much.

D3 seems fine given the mitigation available. And it's a fairly difficult choice for units without an icon or things not near abaddon. Especially if daemon engines are LD7.

The more I look at Abaddon the more well designed I think he is.

Rerolls to EVERYTHING? God damn! Oh, but he can be targeted if not in a unit. Will I really park him in the back with a squad of terminators JUST to get those rerolls?
A 4++! Awesome! But only infantry and 'mounted' -- now I need to ball up next to his unit and I can't control as much table with my units that actually have decent OC and the termies will probably have a 4++ already.
Reroll shock and leadership? Works great with dark pact, but only for bigger units since icons come on regular CSM.

Oh you did Oath of Moment on a Nurgle unit? LOL, bye!
You haven't used SitW and I want to make sure my objectives are covered? Reroll please!

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:

Tyel wrote:
I can't instantly work out if Dark Pact is really good or terrible, which is probably a good sign.

D3 mortal wounds for a failure might be a bit much.

Upside is you get the benefit regardless of the test result.

And rerolls for that check are probably easy to come by, the icon gives them already, probably characters like the Dark Apostle will as well.

well we know one of the choices for Abaddon's aura is leadership rerolls

so thats two ways to get rerolls previewed today

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Upside is you get the benefit regardless of the test result.

That is true. I misread it and thought you tested first.

Its still going to hurt on bad dice, but it is considerable boost to expected damage output.

Tyel wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Upside is you get the benefit regardless of the test result.

That is true. I misread it and thought you tested first.

Its still going to hurt on bad dice, but it is considerable boost to expected damage output.

You can also use it for shooting and close combat as you like, so you can always use it to max lethality in combats you know you won't survive anyway - with the relatively high number of attacks, fishing for [Lethal Hits] 6s to auto-wound can be pretty dangerous to a lot of things.

Breton wrote:

No, they explained (repeatedly, even after it was pointed out) how to make a critical wound, not what it is. Critical wounds are not unrelated to mortal wounds. In the first place Critical Wounds can become Mortal wounds, in the second place, all wounds are at least tangentially related and are not "unrelated".

You're right, a critical wound is an existentialist concept that, once fully understood, allows you to better foreshadow probability via the quantum plane.

Or, it's a term for "wounds on X defaulting to 6" and you're complicating the everything feth out of an obvious concept in some vain effort to become a leading philosopher of our time.

 Eldarsif wrote:

 Valkyrie wrote:
Faction Focus: Chaos Space Marines

Dark Pact looks to be an interesting addition. Gives CSM a lot of ways to increase their lethality at a cost.

Meh it looks lame compared to the last 2 previews spend wound to get the smallest buff possible.

Probably also an expensive wound(s) considering units attempting to form a pact.

I'm so happy that Aspiring Champions aren't really a thing anymore, and that power fists aren't really a thing any more. God. I was just overwhelmed with bloat bloat bloat before this consolidation. I hope the next unit they reveal just has "Guns" and "Heavy Guns" so I don't ever have to think about choices!

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I really like this dynamic they're giving CSM. Makes me wonder what the other characters will do.

“The datasheets for Chaos Space Marines are less cooperative or synergistic than their Imperial counterparts – rather, they are more about the selfish use of power to destroy their foes.”

If you want to believe this as the justification for NM/NR with special/heavy weapon options, I guess you can, but you really have to stop falling for GW's marketingspeak.

Boosykes wrote:
Meh it looks lame compared to the last 2 previews spend wound to get the smallest buff possible.

It's 8% chance to fail with an icon or reroll. Also bear in mind that the marine combat doctrine adds no damage to anything and we have no info on marking units yet.

granting your forces different powers depending on their patron deity

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I really like this dynamic they're giving CSM. Makes me wonder what the other characters will do.

“The datasheets for Chaos Space Marines are less cooperative or synergistic than their Imperial counterparts – rather, they are more about the selfish use of power to destroy their foes.”

If you want to believe this as the justification for NM/NR with special/heavy weapon options, I guess you can, but you really have to stop falling for GW's marketingspeak.

Well, those two things have absolutely nothing to do with each other, so....*shrug*

I'm probably being a sour puss, these CSM rules feel off to me. I have a modest CSM army and I don't want to use Dark Pacts. Not because they seem too risky or anything but because they just don't seem very fluffy.

I get the high-concept. Selfish power boost with an edgy price, but what is supposed to actually be happening. The aspiring champion chants a oath as he's actively charging into an enemy squad, and then his squadmate spontaneously combusts while the champion stabs slightly better for two seconds?

"Like a good neighbor, eat Jeff, give me strength!"

Hopefully one of the other detachment abilities will be more my style.

I'm also slightly cranky about seeing
A.) Another unit with built-in to-wound rerolls. Starting to be a smidge worried about how much lethality was actually reduced this edition.
B.) Abaddon's aura. I thought we had all decided that marines crowding around the buff bubble was bad for the game?

 Wyldhunt wrote:
I'm probably being a sour puss, these CSM rules feel off to me. I have a modest CSM army and I don't want to use Dark Pacts. Not because they seem too risky or anything but because they just don't seem very fluffy.

I get the high-concept. Selfish power boost with an edgy price, but what is supposed to actually be happening. The aspiring champion chants a oath as he's actively charging into an enemy squad, and then his squadmate spontaneously combusts while the champion stabs slightly better for two seconds?

"Like a good neighbor, eat Jeff, give me strength!"

Hopefully one of the other detachment abilities will be more my style.

I'm also slightly cranky about seeing
A.) Another unit with built-in to-wound rerolls. Starting to be a smidge worried about how much lethality was actually reduced this edition.
B.) Abaddon's aura. I thought we had all decided that marines crowding around the buff bubble was bad for the game?

friendly reminder, basic combat weapons for csm got 3 attacks , chainswords got 4...

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:
I'm probably being a sour puss, these CSM rules feel off to me. I have a modest CSM army and I don't want to use Dark Pacts. Not because they seem too risky or anything but because they just don't seem very fluffy.

I get the high-concept. Selfish power boost with an edgy price, but what is supposed to actually be happening. The aspiring champion chants a oath as he's actively charging into an enemy squad, and then his squadmate spontaneously combusts while the champion stabs slightly better for two seconds?

"Like a good neighbor, eat Jeff, give me strength!"

Hopefully one of the other detachment abilities will be more my style.

I'm also slightly cranky about seeing
A.) Another unit with built-in to-wound rerolls. Starting to be a smidge worried about how much lethality was actually reduced this edition.
B.) Abaddon's aura. I thought we had all decided that marines crowding around the buff bubble was bad for the game?

friendly reminder, basic combat weapons for csm got 3 attacks , chainswords got 4...

Sorry. I haven't had my coffee yet, and I'm not following what you mean. How does that relate to my points?

 Wyldhunt wrote:
I'm probably being a sour puss, these CSM rules feel off to me. I have a modest CSM army and I don't want to use Dark Pacts. Not because they seem too risky or anything but because they just don't seem very fluffy.

I get the high-concept. Selfish power boost with an edgy price, but what is supposed to actually be happening. The aspiring champion chants a oath as he's actively charging into an enemy squad, and then his squadmate spontaneously combusts while the champion stabs slightly better for two seconds?

"Like a good neighbor, eat Jeff, give me strength!"

Hopefully one of the other detachment abilities will be more my style.

I'm also slightly cranky about seeing
A.) Another unit with built-in to-wound rerolls. Starting to be a smidge worried about how much lethality was actually reduced this edition.
B.) Abaddon's aura. I thought we had all decided that marines crowding around the buff bubble was bad for the game?

The pact is likely mutating models into a gibbering non-functional spawn.

A) That is a melee reroll only.
B) Yes, however, consider the issues here. Abaddon can only be protected in a unit - likely only terminators. If you want to have him giving rerolls to hit to your backline you have to buy him AND that unit to do so and then all your objective control goes away.

Moving around as a blob is going to lose you games since your OC needs to be on objectives and not next to Abaddon.

Could he create a bunker? Possibly, but we'll have to see how truly efficient it will be to put what is current at least 500 points to give reroll hits.