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Tsagualsa wrote:
Their wording was 'these Dreadnoughts in Legion Imperialis stand a little bit shorter than a Spacemarine in Warhammer 40.000'. It's in the part of the video where they show each individual unit, when they show the Contemptors.

I have to assume they got the sized mixed up, as those Contemptors look to be about 20mm tall, if that.

 His Master's Voice wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
Their wording was 'these Dreadnoughts in Legion Imperialis stand a little bit shorter than a Spacemarine in Warhammer 40.000'. It's in the part of the video where they show each individual unit, when they show the Contemptors.

I have to assume they got the sized mixed up, as those Contemptors look to be about 20mm tall, if that.

It sure seems like it.

we hope
otherwise this will be a 15mm game and not 8mm

 kodos wrote:
we hope
otherwise this will be a 15mm game and not 8mm

Nah, it's 8mm allright, they just used a expression that is a bit ambiguous ('a bit smaller' meaning 'half as big'), that's not evidence they got the whole scale off by a factor of two The armywide shots with the known-size Warhounds show that everything is broadly the right scale. The Contemptors are also just slightly bigger than the Charonite Ogryns (which are huge, way bigger than normal Ogryns), so that matches as well.

 Matrindur wrote:
Confirmed in the article it will launch in August

Guess I need to get off my arse and put the old stuff up on eBay so I can afford all the new hotness.

Wow. Epic, Brets, and Skaven all in the same preview.

 Breotan wrote:

 Matrindur wrote:
Confirmed in the article it will launch in August

Guess I need to get off my arse and put the old stuff up on eBay so I can afford all the new hotness.

Wow. Epic, Brets, and Skaven all in the same preview.

True. My wallet is ready as I didn´t order the Leviathan box set.

Those aren't 25mm bases, if you look at the army photo you can see that there's some smaller bases in the group photo (like the contemptors)

Dont know i was expecting...at least a box with two armys the size old epic...this box is kinda for one...and that one wont have an "epic" size army...so is an excuse to buy more boxes. I mean for the crazy 3D people they will only expect the manual...but for the ones who wanted something like the old but dont have nothing...this is meh.

Even it could grab more players if it was 40k and not 30k....but nope...this is an stand alone game....unless you want to crazy print things.

Dont know you but right now i am in Peru, in lima to be exact...there is only one store that sells warhammer just by order (they dont have things in shelves) there is a community of like 30 playing 40k most in homes....in the store more play kill team. Havent seen AoS or other games....so this new epic...wont be apealling here...even if i get one i wont have no one to play lol not even by myself unless i obligate myself to claim that the box is 2 armys and play just like 40k in mini size :(

I was surprisingly meh about this preview, and I couldn’t work out why.

I use to love a bit of epic and still have four large armies.

Maybe it was the round bases, or the bland paint schemes. Then it hit me, the armies in that box set are tiny.

Like less stuff than a 3000 point HH game tiny. In old epic I’d run detachments larger than that. The whole point of epic is to use armies that are totally impractical to use at 28mm because they have so many units in them. This box set doesn’t deliver that.

 Pacific wrote:
Some GREAT news for the existing community.

I hope he doesn't mind me posting this here, but Ian Wood (one of the main pillars of the Epic community) has done some Geometry on the photos, based on the size of a Warhound and base, and worked out an approx size of the new infantry. In summary, they are bigger than classic Epic, but not excessively so and should match well with existing proxy ranges.

One thing I forgot to say: if those are 25mm bases, they are thinner than the current regular ones.

 Kiiroitori wrote:
Dont know i was expecting...at least a box with two armys the size old epic...this box is kinda for one...and that one wont have an "epic" size army...so is an excuse to buy more boxes. I mean for the crazy 3D people they will only expect the manual...but for the ones who wanted something like the old but dont have nothing...this is meh.

Even it could grab more players if it was 40k and not 30k....but nope...this is an stand alone game....unless you want to crazy print things.

Dont know you but right now i am in Peru, in lima to be exact...there is only one store that sells warhammer just by order (they dont have things in shelves) there is a community of like 30 playing 40k most in homes....in the store more play kill team. Havent seen AoS or other games....so this new epic...wont be apealling here...even if i get one i wont have no one to play lol not even by myself unless i obligate myself to claim that the box is 2 armys and play just like 40k in mini size :(

Exactly, in old epic £10 would buy you a space marine battle group that was a whole company of marines. There’s less than that in this box, which will probably cost £100.

Technical, the Set includes two Crusade Era Companies;

each with
>1 Command Staff
>3 Tactical Squads
>1 Tactical Support Squad

 Albertorius wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Some GREAT news for the existing community.

I hope he doesn't mind me posting this here, but Ian Wood (one of the main pillars of the Epic community) has done some Geometry on the photos, based on the size of a Warhound and base, and worked out an approx size of the new infantry. In summary, they are bigger than classic Epic, but not excessively so and should match well with existing proxy ranges.

Spoiler:

One thing I forgot to say: if those are 25mm bases, they are thinner than the current regular ones.

Yeah they said the bases are thinner, as they’re less distracting/smaller proportionally with smaller models.

RazorEdge wrote:
Technical, the Set includes two Crusade Era Companies;

each with
>1 Command Staff
>3 Tactical Squads
>1 Tactical Support Squad

seem to remember the intro scenarios for 1st edition had more than that, something like three squads per side, with transports, and whirlwinds etc (though yay proxy Rhino as whirlwinds and a flagpole for the commander)

what was it? 16 Land Raiders, 32 Rhinos and 64 stands of infantry?

oh yes and a range of buildings

 Tamereth wrote:

Exactly, in old epic £10 would buy you a space marine battle group that was a whole company of marines. There’s less than that in this box, which will probably cost £100.

Yeah, but also the tabletop market was much, much smaller then so they needed to sell 'in bulk' to get started and also attract customers. If buyers during the 90's also needed to spend £100's on extra lead blister pack add-ons in order to have a barely-playable game, then these product ranges would have died off long before Epic 40,000.

Now GW have an established market built on existing AT/AI models and a lot of nostaligia. There's absolutely no incentive for them to take the same approach. These days GW can put out thousands of new boxes for a game and have them sell out in minutes. They're also operating on longer design & production schedules that mean dozens more Epic-scale products are in the pipeline, with hefty investments into injection mold tooling. If they sell you a full sized army on day one, what will you want to buy in six months time?

 xttz wrote:

 Tamereth wrote:

Exactly, in old epic £10 would buy you a space marine battle group that was a whole company of marines. There’s less than that in this box, which will probably cost £100.

Yeah, but also the tabletop market was much, much smaller then so they needed to sell 'in bulk' to get started and also attract customers. If buyers during the 90's also needed to spend £100's on extra lead blister pack add-ons in order to have a barely-playable game, then these product ranges would have died off long before Epic 40,000.

Now GW have an established market built on existing AT/AI models and a lot of nostaligia. There's absolutely no incentive for them to take the same approach. These days GW can put out thousands of new boxes for a game and have them sell out in minutes. They're also operating on longer design & production schedules that mean dozens more Epic-scale products are in the pipeline, with hefty investments into injection mold tooling. If they sell you a full sized army on day one, what will you want to buy in six months time?

Also, by inflation alone, £10 from back in '97 are the equivalent of £25 today (probably more like £30, it's an average rate after all). I know it's hard to accept, but 1997 was 26 years ago

Just got back from a game of Killteam, and what have they revealed? A new "Epic scale" game system, as many of us expected. I bet this will be used to test the waters, and if things go according to plan, a 40K Epic scale game will follow suit..

I dont know what to think about the contents of the box tbh.. seems stingy in terms of intantry. Will have to see what sort of pricepoints this stuff will settle into. Seems quite likely this new game will be significantly more expensive to get into than the Epics of olde..

In any case, I will buy this box and some AI models at the bare minimum. I want to get a feel for how the game plays with titans, infantry, armour and flyers, combined arms warfare FTW

One thing became a certainty though - HH 2.0 is a no-go for me after this. I will only be getting HH models to use in 40K & KT21, and otherwise prioritize Legion Inperialis stuff. My shelves are full of 28mm stuff already, I will not be getting much more..

 tauist wrote:

I dont know what to think about the contents of the box tbh.. seems stingy in terms of intantry. Will have to see what sort of pricepoints this stuff will settle into. Seems quite likely this new game will be significantly more expensive to get into than the Epics of olde..
.

On the other hand, Epic scale infantry is absolutey dirt cheap to put out in huge numbers, it's possible that they do a compeitively priced Space Marine infantry box that gets you a hundred bodies or whatever, and they just wanted to use the space in the starter box for more interesting things. People will buy Space Marines anyway, so the e.g. Company Box is a given, and probably a good way to expand your starter force.

 tauist wrote:
One thing became a certainty though - HH 2.0 is a no-go for me after this. I will only be getting HH models to use in 40K & KT21, and otherwise prioritize Legion Inperialis stuff. My shelves are full of 28mm stuff already, I will not be getting much more..

I was very tempted by the HH revamp last summer and almost pulled the trigger on the AoD boxed set. The main thing that stopped me was realising that the next logical step for Epic scale was a HH game, and that the current drought in AT releases was probably building up to that. I didn't like the idea of painting up a '28mm' marine army only to repeat the process again for Epic.

The only surprise here is that it only took a year! I thought they would let HH breathe for a bit longer first and release for Christmas or early 2024.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 tauist wrote:

I dont know what to think about the contents of the box tbh.. seems stingy in terms of intantry. Will have to see what sort of pricepoints this stuff will settle into. Seems quite likely this new game will be significantly more expensive to get into than the Epics of olde..
.

On the other hand, Epic scale infantry is absolutey dirt cheap to put out in huge numbers, it's possible that they do a compeitively priced Space Marine infantry box that gets you a hundred bodies or whatever, and they just wanted to use the space in the starter box for more interesting things. People will buy Space Marines anyway, so the e.g. Company Box is a given, and probably a good way to expand your starter force.

I will bet hard currency right now that Christmas 2024 sees one (or more) Epic-scale bundle boxes with a bunch of infantry and tanks. There's also a chance they do smaller bundle sets for just marines or IA before that.

 xttz wrote:



I will bet hard currency right now that Christmas 2024 sees one (or more) Epic-scale bundle boxes with a bunch of infantry and tanks. There's also a chance they do smaller bundle sets for just marines or IA before that.

We'll see what their release model is - and what material most of the stuff outside of the big boxes come in. I can see company-level boxes of plastic infantry and the most common vehicle hulls, with the chunkier stuff like heavy tanks and such coming in resin, and turrets being essentially upgrades for the standard hulls. But apparently there will be more information shortly, so we'll have to wait and see for now.

Known about this for some time now when I was told not to sell off my epic stuff, the new stuff looks very nice.

 JohnnyHell wrote:
I suspect the game is Warhammer The Horus Heresy Legions, and the Imperialis bit is the box set name.

So that leaves the door open for future releases like Legions: Aeldari..?

 Tamereth wrote:

 Kiiroitori wrote:
Dont know i was expecting...at least a box with two armys the size old epic...this box is kinda for one...and that one wont have an "epic" size army...so is an excuse to buy more boxes. I mean for the crazy 3D people they will only expect the manual...but for the ones who wanted something like the old but dont have nothing...this is meh.

Even it could grab more players if it was 40k and not 30k....but nope...this is an stand alone game....unless you want to crazy print things.

Dont know you but right now i am in Peru, in lima to be exact...there is only one store that sells warhammer just by order (they dont have things in shelves) there is a community of like 30 playing 40k most in homes....in the store more play kill team. Havent seen AoS or other games....so this new epic...wont be apealling here...even if i get one i wont have no one to play lol not even by myself unless i obligate myself to claim that the box is 2 armys and play just like 40k in mini size :(

Exactly, in old epic £10 would buy you a space marine battle group that was a whole company of marines. There’s less than that in this box, which will probably cost £100.

When did 10 pound get 40 stand infantry, 11 tanks, 8 dreadnoughts and 2 titans?

Less hyperbole tyvm. That's getting ridiculous.

 xttz wrote:

 Tamereth wrote:

Exactly, in old epic £10 would buy you a space marine battle group that was a whole company of marines. There’s less than that in this box, which will probably cost £100.

Yeah, but also the tabletop market was much, much smaller then so they needed to sell 'in bulk' to get started and also attract customers. If buyers during the 90's also needed to spend £100's on extra lead blister pack add-ons in order to have a barely-playable game, then these product ranges would have died off long before Epic 40,000.

Now GW have an established market built on existing AT/AI models and a lot of nostaligia. There's absolutely no incentive for them to take the same approach. These days GW can put out thousands of new boxes for a game and have them sell out in minutes. They're also operating on longer design & production schedules that mean dozens more Epic-scale products are in the pipeline, with hefty investments into injection mold tooling. If they sell you a full sized army on day one, what will you want to buy in six months time?

Yes although a lot of the starter boxes are relative good value (compared to GWs own single boxes). Once you factor in an FLGS discount, it will probably be the cheapest way to get a 'core' army. How cheap that is exactly though remains to be seen!

As I expected with the modern detail level multi part models, Epic is far from the bang for your buck it used to be.

If the "223 miniatures" didn't count each stand as 5 models it would have been a nice box.

I’m wondering how detailed the rules are going to be.

I say this due to the Tanks having a choice of Sponsons. Which could be suggestive the guns on your models will matter on the board.

Tsagualsa wrote:
Also, by inflation alone, £10 from back in '97 are the equivalent of £25 today (probably more like £30, it's an average rate after all). I know it's hard to accept, but 1997 was 26 years ago

To be clear, £10 from 1997 are £18.74 from today's money, according to the Bank of England:

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

They might only be £25 or even £30 in GW-land.

Also, I can pretty much guarantee you're not going to get a full not-Epic SM company for £30.

 Albertorius wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
Also, by inflation alone, £10 from back in '97 are the equivalent of £25 today (probably more like £30, it's an average rate after all). I know it's hard to accept, but 1997 was 26 years ago

To be clear, £10 from 1997 are £18.74 from today's money...

They might only be £25 or even £30 in GW-land.

Fun fact, most of the inflation occurred in 1997!

I bought a Tyranid infantry box in 1995 and got five identical sprues for £5. Picked up the same box in 1997 when Epic 40k released and it had two sprues for the same price.

 xttz wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
Also, by inflation alone, £10 from back in '97 are the equivalent of £25 today (probably more like £30, it's an average rate after all). I know it's hard to accept, but 1997 was 26 years ago

To be clear, £10 from 1997 are £18.74 from today's money...

They might only be £25 or even £30 in GW-land.

Fun fact, most of the inflation occurred in 1997!

I bought a Tyranid infantry box in 1995 and got five identical sprues for £5. Picked up the same box in 1997 when Epic 40k released and it had two sprues for the same price.

The Epic 40k were the only ones we got to see over here. After that it all went Specialist Games and prices skyrocketed.

 xttz wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
Also, by inflation alone, £10 from back in '97 are the equivalent of £25 today (probably more like £30, it's an average rate after all). I know it's hard to accept, but 1997 was 26 years ago

To be clear, £10 from 1997 are £18.74 from today's money...

They might only be £25 or even £30 in GW-land.

Fun fact, most of the inflation occurred in 1997!

I bought a Tyranid infantry box in 1995 and got five identical sprues for £5. Picked up the same box in 1997 when Epic 40k released and it had two sprues for the same price.

I remember those small boxes, in 1st edition when the one that had the stompa with "only" five sprues was one I thought was naff, IIRC the Space Marine & Imperial Guard ones had ten (I ended up with ten plastic land speeders and it was only one per frame)

Seem to remember picking up 1st edition Space Marine, the boxed game for about £20 as well (got it, Mighty Empires and something else for £50)