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Looking good.

So...

Some of the Aeronautica Imperialis stuff is explicity *not* available during the Horus Heresy era (the Tau stuff, for instance). Do all of the AI Imperial aircraft date back to the Heresy? Or are some of them post-Heresy, and thus probably not usable with this new game (yet)?
.

Lightning fighters are post-Heresy as the designs were recovered from a STC fragment and spent 500 years being deliberated upon by the Adeptus Mechanicus before being cleared for production.

Iracundus wrote:
Lightning fighters are post-Heresy as the designs were recovered from a STC fragment and spent 500 years being deliberated upon by the Adeptus Mechanicus before being cleared for production.

The Voss pattern was Heresy Era, but too complex for unaugmented pilots.

I don't play AI, but have got some of the Ork Bombers, which are just wonderfully characterful. Hopefully they will release a Stormbird!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m wondering how detailed the rules are going to be.

I say this due to the Tanks having a choice of Sponsons. Which could be suggestive the guns on your models will matter on the board.

That's interesting - it could mean Armageddon, as the EpicAU rules have that sort of granularity ( and the distinction between anti-armour and anti-infantry weaponry).

Eumerin wrote:
So...

Some of the Aeronautica Imperialis stuff is explicity *not* available during the Horus Heresy era (the Tau stuff, for instance). Do all of the AI Imperial aircraft date back to the Heresy? Or are some of them post-Heresy, and thus probably not usable with this new game (yet)?
.

Flipping through the Horus Heresy: Aeronautica Imperialis rulebook in front of me, the following are all allowed during Heresy era games (I'm assuming they will also be allowed in Legions Imperialis):


Legiones Astartes

Xiphon Interceptor
Storm Eagle Assault Craft
Fire Raptor Gunship
Thunderhawk Gunship


Divisio Aeronautica

Thunderbolt
Thunderbolt Fury
Avenger Strike Fighter
Lighting and Lightning Strike Fighter
Marauder Bomber
Marauder Destroyer
Marauder Colossus
Marauder Pathfinder
Arvus Lighter


Legio Custodes

Ares Gunship


The only two 40K Imperial craft missing from the Horus Heresy rules are the Vulture and Valkyrie.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
I suspect the game is Warhammer The Horus Heresy Legions, and the Imperialis bit is the box set name.

So that leaves the door open for future releases like Legions: Aeldari..?

Aeronautica Imperialis already left the door wide open for Aeldari... and Orks.

Also, probably more like, Great Crusade: Aeldari...

artific3r wrote:

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 JohnnyHell wrote:
I suspect the game is Warhammer The Horus Heresy Legions, and the Imperialis bit is the box set name.

So that leaves the door open for future releases like Legions: Aeldari..?

Aeronautica Imperialis already left the door wide open for Aeldari... and Orks.

Also, probably more like, Great Crusade: Aeldari...

Aeronautica Imperialis isn't a Horus Heresy game. They have one book devoted to the Horus Heresy, but the rest are standard 40k material. I'm pretty sure they did this because there just weren't enough Imperial aircraft designs to support a standalone game specifically for the Horus Heresy.

There might eventually be other races introduced but don't hold your breath. After all, Adeptus Titanicus was released in 2018 and we have yet to see anything new aside from "yet another set of guns" for a model that already exists.

There is a big difference between saying the door is open for xenos and saying xenos are confirmed. Aeronautica shows that GW has already been thinking about forward compatibility with Epic scale xenos armies. Nobody is saying it’s going to happen, only that GW has considered it and has planned for it as a potential (but not guaranteed) eventuality.

We can only observe what paths GW is laying out for themselves. Whether or not they will take those paths remains to be seen.

...now I get what rubbed me the wrong way.

Not a single fething transport in sight. On a melon-fething EPIC game. Do they really expect everything to just footslog? What are those, orks?

I really like those new sculpts.

I wonder how many units you need and how good the rules are. Okay, will never play it, like I don't get to play everything else. But a good ruleset - or higher attention for older editions - might push me to paint the units and vehicles I already...found.

It’s been a long weekend, so my maths might be off, but the numbers in the WarCom article don’t seem right.

They say there’s 106 marines and walkers and 104 Auxilia and walkers.
But counting the minis in the image and in the article description I get 94 marines and 102 Auxilia.

Anyone willing to double check that for me?

 Albertorius wrote:
...now I get what rubbed me the wrong way.

Not a single fething transport in sight. On a melon-fething EPIC game. Do they really expect everything to just footslog? What are those, orks?

Having separate transport kits, like rhinos, Land Raiders, dracosians and aurox make for easy upsells to the core box, which shows off the killy stuff.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
...now I get what rubbed me the wrong way.

Not a single fething transport in sight. On a melon-fething EPIC game. Do they really expect everything to just footslog? What are those, orks?

Having separate transport kits, like rhinos, Land Raiders, dracosians and aurox make for easy upsells to the core box, which shows off the killy stuff.

Ahh, Aurox and Carnodons. Really looking forward to see detachments of them rolling up the field. Also looking forward to the ordinatus.

One thing that occurs to me is that, with the new 40k and the removal of Forgeworld units to legends, they’ve mentioned things like blight drones and brass scorpions being heresy era units. If so, I hope we see them appearing in Epic alongside other Dæmon Engines. Combine them with Ruinstorm Dæmons and you could have an old school ish Epic Chaos army.

twentypence wrote:
It’s been a long weekend, so my maths might be off, but the numbers in the WarCom article don’t seem right.

They say there’s 106 marines and walkers and 104 Auxilia and walkers.
But counting the minis in the image and in the article description I get 94 marines and 102 Auxilia.

Anyone willing to double check that for me?

Yep, you are correct.

Trying to figure out how army construction could work. I’m taking a guess that it may be like Epic: A.

I’m guessing, from the box photo, you select a Tactical Detachment with command + upgrades (Cataphractii Terminators, Assault Sqaud, etc) and then support detachments (Predators, Sicarans or Contemptors) with Titans and Aircraft being a Max of 25% of army total?

Same for Solar Auxilia - Lasrifle Section and command + upgrades (Storm Squad, Veletaris, Charonites) and then support of Leman Russ, Malacodors and Sentinels.

Thoughts?

 Pacific wrote:
I don't play AI, but have got some of the Ork Bombers, which are just wonderfully characterful. Hopefully they will release a Stormbird!

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m wondering how detailed the rules are going to be.

I say this due to the Tanks having a choice of Sponsons. Which could be suggestive the guns on your models will matter on the board.

That's interesting - it could mean Armageddon, as the EpicAU rules have that sort of granularity ( and the distinction between anti-armour and anti-infantry weaponry).

It could also just be purely aesthetic. A “we can, so we should” type thing.

Now, hopes and dreams stuff. On account what follows is stuff we just don’t know right now.

1. Orders System from 2nd Ed. This was an important part of the experience. Different orders let your unit do different things, and indeed dictated when. You had to consider your own options and try to second guess your opponent. With alternating activation, it prevented an opponent simply reacting their way out of trouble.

2. One Blister = One Unit. This is an absolute must. If we’re tied to a basic unit composition (so X stands, Y Predators etc) then the relevant miniatures must be sold in that minimum.

3. Anything but Epic 40,000’s firepower chart. Whilst it worked nicely for BFG, Epic 40,000 was crap. Yes I would of course prefer the more granular 2nd Ed where every unit had its own weapon profile, but I think for speed of play and indeed better variety, Epic Armageddon AP/AT is probably what we’ll get.

4. I suppose Blast Markers, as with cunning play you could at least suppress your opponent someone even if you did little to no damage.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 zedmeister wrote:
Trying to figure out how army construction could work. I’m taking a guess that it may be like Epic: A.

I’m guessing, from the box photo, you select a Tactical Detachment with command + upgrades (Cataphractii Terminators, Assault Sqaud, etc) and then support detachments (Predators, Sicarans or Contemptors) with Titans and Aircraft being a Max of 25% of army total?

Same for Solar Auxilia - Lasrifle Section and command + upgrades (Storm Squad, Veletaris, Charonites) and then support of Leman Russ, Malacodors and Sentinels.

Thoughts?

Sounding like a borked record, but 2nd Ed was for me the pinnacle of army design.

Company Card + 0-5 Detachment Cards + 0-1 Special Cards.

Formalised military structures. Different rules for different armies as to exactly how those interacted (Orks for instance were essentially building ever bigger mobs, Space Marines could all act fully independently, IG needed a command web etc)

 Shadow Walker wrote:

twentypence wrote:
It’s been a long weekend, so my maths might be off, but the numbers in the WarCom article don’t seem right.

They say there’s 106 marines and walkers and 104 Auxilia and walkers.
But counting the minis in the image and in the article description I get 94 marines and 102 Auxilia.

Anyone willing to double check that for me?

Yep, you are correct.

Those will probably be sergeant options, for example in the images you can see the Solar Auxilia Tactical Command Section has a Legate Commander on one base and a Augury scanner? on the other. That choice would cover the two additional auxilia bodies.

I agree MDG, list building 2nd edition style makes sense for me, and makes sense in Epic scale. Epic Armageddon was more about trying to field various typical 28mm scale armies together, which just didn’t sit well with me. I want full Companies on the table, with whatever extra support they wish to bring.

Currently lounging in my pit enjoying some Judy Justice.

When I’m up, I’ll grab my Armies of the Imperium expansion and do some sample pics of how 2nd Ed worked.

Zedmeister - I think you could well be right there. Another hint towards Armageddon-type rules perhaps.

 Albertorius wrote:
...now I get what rubbed me the wrong way.

Not a single fething transport in sight. On a melon-fething EPIC game. Do they really expect everything to just footslog? What are those, orks?

Haha yes I see what you mean! The BIG strength of marines, in pretty much every edition of Epic, was the mobility. So this is a departure from every other version!

I am guessing, as posted above, a box of rhinos is going to be one of the day one additional boxes.

 Albertorius wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
Also, by inflation alone, £10 from back in '97 are the equivalent of £25 today (probably more like £30, it's an average rate after all). I know it's hard to accept, but 1997 was 26 years ago

To be clear, £10 from 1997 are £18.74 from today's money, according to the Bank of England:

https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator

They might only be £25 or even £30 in GW-land.

Also, I can pretty much guarantee you're not going to get a full not-Epic SM company for £30.

In the interest of fairness, i used another calculator that put out £23,67, which i rounded out to £25. I suppose the difference is rooted in the method used, measuring inflation is a as much a question of definitions as of actual measurement - i did not intend any white-knighting or whatever, i literally used the first calculator i found

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
3. Anything but Epic 40,000’s firepower chart. Whilst it worked nicely for BFG, Epic 40,000 was crap. Yes I would of course prefer the more granular 2nd Ed where every unit had its own weapon profile, but I think for speed of play and indeed better variety, Epic Armageddon AP/AT is probably what we’ll get.

I love how opinion is so easily expressed as fact >_>

Epic Armageddon, where you have to roll 4 dice for every single fething Leman Russ is certainly... a preference. But try to do that for a battle with the amount of stuff you actually field on an Epic 40k battle and well... "speed of play" is not something that comes up.

It does work for E:A, but that's more because you don't actually play that big of a batlle. A bigass 3k points E:A battle is barely 1.500 points in E:40k... and we frequently play 3-4.000 as a "regular" game.

 Albertorius wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
3. Anything but Epic 40,000’s firepower chart. Whilst it worked nicely for BFG, Epic 40,000 was crap. Yes I would of course prefer the more granular 2nd Ed where every unit had its own weapon profile, but I think for speed of play and indeed better variety, Epic Armageddon AP/AT is probably what we’ll get.

I love how opinion is so easily expressed as fact >_>

Epic Armageddon, where you have to roll 4 dice for every single fething Leman Russ is certainly... a preference. But try to do that for a battle with the amount of stuff you actually field on an Epic 40k battle and well... "speed of play" is not something that comes up.

I would bet that default game size is shrinking significantly to account for the 50x or whatever increase in price per model.

Better than “count up your total firepower, then consult the chart, then consult the chart modifiers, then grab that many dice, then roll them”.

It was a horrendous system for Epic, spesh coming off the back of 2nd Ed.

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
3. Anything but Epic 40,000’s firepower chart. Whilst it worked nicely for BFG, Epic 40,000 was crap. Yes I would of course prefer the more granular 2nd Ed where every unit had its own weapon profile, but I think for speed of play and indeed better variety, Epic Armageddon AP/AT is probably what we’ll get.

I love how opinion is so easily expressed as fact >_>

Epic Armageddon, where you have to roll 4 dice for every single fething Leman Russ is certainly... a preference. But try to do that for a battle with the amount of stuff you actually field on an Epic 40k battle and well... "speed of play" is not something that comes up.

I would bet that default game size is shrinking significantly to account for the 50x or whatever increase in price per model.

More or less a given, yeah. At some point you'll feel like playing mini-30k


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Better than “count up your total firepower, then consult the chart, then consult the chart modifiers, then grab that many dice, then roll them”.

It was a horrendous system for Epic, spesh coming off the back of 2nd Ed.

Not better at all, no. You just like "check your units, count them up, then check how many weapons they have. Then check how many of those are AP weapons, and how many of those are AT. Then check up the actual roll needed for each, and split it in however many different pools you need, then roll each pool" more.

Also?

Capitol Imperialis or i riot. And a Leviathan.

Of course, as soon as I decry it isn't going to happen, they release it...

I still have my old beetlebacks & epic stuff from the original Space Marine set, are the infantry from that old stuff going to look silly small next to the new?

As much as I like the look of the new models, sadly I haven't played a game of Epic since the 90's, so at best I might get a box of the new marine models. If I were to get serious, I imagine I'll be firing up the 3D printer for vehicles & such.

 Pacific wrote:
Zedmeister - I think you could well be right there. Another hint towards Armageddon-type rules perhaps.

No blast markers though. Pity, as the 4th edition suppression and crossfire rules were just ace. You didn’t need to kill to suppress or break and it really rewarded smart tactical gameplay. Never know, though…

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Better than “count up your total firepower, then consult the chart, then consult the chart modifiers, then grab that many dice, then roll them”.

It was a horrendous system for Epic, spesh coming off the back of 2nd Ed.

Epic 40000 was my favourite version of epic to play, It actually felt right for the scale. Loved it.