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So... how many "Legions Imperialis" points would y'all think something like this would be? Do you think this would be playable for a single side of a battle? How about with added titans/knights?

At least 3 points.

 Pacific wrote:


Haha yes I see what you mean! The BIG strength of marines, in pretty much every edition of Epic, was the mobility. So this is a departure from every other version!

I am guessing, as posted above, a box of rhinos is going to be one of the day one additional boxes.

Apart from Marine Dreadnoughts. From what I remember, they were slow and ended up dragging back the more mobile elements of a detachment. You had to drop them in somewhere and they’d end up pretty much stuck in that location unless you used your aircraft to redeploy them.

 Pacific wrote:
Haha yes I see what you mean! The BIG strength of marines, in pretty much every edition of Epic, was the mobility. So this is a departure from every other version!

I am guessing, as posted above, a box of rhinos is going to be one of the day one additional boxes.

Yay [/s] Hopefully at least the box will be like, ten Rhinos each or something.


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 zedmeister wrote:
Apart from Marine Dreadnoughts. From what I remember, they were slow and ended up dragging back the more mobile elements of a detachment. You had to drop them in somewhere and they’d end up pretty much stuck in that location unless you used your aircraft to redeploy them.

Being walkers they did work well defending objectives, though, so there's that. But yes, dreads tended to drag units.


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 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
At least 3 points.

Hey, maybe each detachment is a point ^^

Oh, hey, a somewhat decent comparison:

3k points of space marines, Epic Armageddon:



3k points of space marines, Epic 40.000:



Rhinos, Rhinos everywhere.... xD

 Albertorius wrote:

Yay [/s] Hopefully at least the box will be like, ten Rhinos each or something.

I fully expect box and sprue style to match Aeronautica.



Basic sprue is tiny and has 2-3 intricately detailed multi part models, two copies in a 40€ box.

That'd be kinda gak, IMHO. But to be expected, yes.

Looking at Etsy, first set of 3d printed Rhinos I found were £6.99 for 3, including postage.
Interested to see if that shop gets shut down, and how much GW will charge for plastic.

Andykp wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Better than “count up your total firepower, then consult the chart, then consult the chart modifiers, then grab that many dice, then roll them”.

It was a horrendous system for Epic, spesh coming off the back of 2nd Ed.

Epic 40000 was my favourite version of epic to play, It actually felt right for the scale. Loved it.

Same. If I have any intention of buying into this release, it will only be for using with E40k anyway. Much like how I cherry picked from the AT range.

lord_blackfang wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Yay [/s] Hopefully at least the box will be like, ten Rhinos each or something.

I fully expect box and sprue style to match Aeronautica.



Basic sprue is tiny and has 2-3 intricately detailed multi part models, two copies in a 40€ box.

Yeah this is exactly what I'm expecting as well. I just hope that it isn't just 4 tanks to a €40 box. I suspect it will be 4-6 to a box and that is a huge increase to the price scales of Epic of the past. You will be looking at a couple of grand for one set of tanks alone for the sort of games you should be able to play at this scale!

My biggest wish/hope for this (if the marines are close enough in scale to the most recent 3rd party ones) is that we can get a battleforce/starter set cheap enough to bulk up on basic stuff. If I buy into this new version, I have no intention of treating it just like a 'smaller scale 40k'.

 zedmeister wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
Zedmeister - I think you could well be right there. Another hint towards Armageddon-type rules perhaps.

No blast markers though. Pity, as the 4th edition suppression and crossfire rules were just ace. You didn’t need to kill to suppress or break and it really rewarded smart tactical gameplay. Never know, though…

'They shall be my Space Marines, and they shall know no tactics!'

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
...now I get what rubbed me the wrong way.

Not a single fething transport in sight. On a melon-fething EPIC game. Do they really expect everything to just footslog? What are those, orks?

Having separate transport kits, like rhinos, Land Raiders, dracosians and aurox make for easy upsells to the core box, which shows off the killy stuff.

Could be like 40k 4th(?), where a large proportion of your army's monetary cost was in the obligatory, and surprisingly expensive, transports.

No_Marines_Here wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:
...now I get what rubbed me the wrong way.

Not a single fething transport in sight. On a melon-fething EPIC game. Do they really expect everything to just footslog? What are those, orks?

Having separate transport kits, like rhinos, Land Raiders, dracosians and aurox make for easy upsells to the core box, which shows off the killy stuff.

Could be like 40k 4th(?), where a large proportion of your army's monetary cost was in the obligatory, and surprisingly expensive, transports.

Heh. It's funny... with the years, regular 40k has been balooning, with ever bigger armies and units... while apparently at the same time Epic seems to be shrinking in number of units fielded.

Kinda looks like GW wants them to interesect in Apocalypse xD

 Albertorius wrote:
So... how many "Legions Imperialis" points would y'all think something like this would be? Do you think this would be playable for a single side of a battle? How about with added titans/knights?

Spoiler:

Nice squad markings on the Rhinos. You will be able to play right away unlike those unfortunates like me who sold their Epic collection back in the day.


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 Albertorius wrote:
...now I get what rubbed me the wrong way.

Not a single fething transport in sight. On a melon-fething EPIC game. Do they really expect everything to just footslog? What are those, orks?

No, you are supposed to build trenches and put your models into them. Then at the sound of the whistle everybody frantically climbs up and charges into no man´s land to die a horrible death.

 RexHavoc wrote:


Yeah this is exactly what I'm expecting as well. I just hope that it isn't just 4 tanks to a €40 box. I suspect it will be 4-6 to a box and that is a huge increase to the price scales of Epic of the past. You will be looking at a couple of grand for one set of tanks alone for the sort of games you should be able to play at this scale!

My biggest wish/hope for this (if the marines are close enough in scale to the most recent 3rd party ones) is that we can get a battleforce/starter set cheap enough to bulk up on basic stuff. If I buy into this new version, I have no intention of treating it just like a 'smaller scale 40k'.

As I said a few pages ago, Epic won't be directly comparable to Aeronautica in terms of pricing. The latter is more like Necromunda or Blood Bowl, and the products are priced based on the fact that people won't buy them in any huge volume. One or two boxes are typically enough to play a game with any given faction.

I definitely think we'll likely see a few tiers of Epic pricing that mirror how Titanicus and last year's Heresy game worked:

The core set will offer an initial discount over individual purchases. Once the range has been expanded we may also see this refreshed with a new starter box after 1-2 years, like Titanicus did.

I would expect the staple units like rhino transports to be priced based on a high volume of sales, much like how several of the new HH vehicles released with lower prices than their 40k equivalents. Many of these kits can potentially be sold to every single Epic player, rather than like say Aeronautica where only Eldar players buy Eldar planes.

There will inevitably be some kind of bundle deals in parallel to the core set, packaging several units for marines, imperial army, or knights into a single box with a discount. That might take the form of permanent 'combat patrol' style faction starter boxes, temporary one-off products like the AT titan maniple and knight boxes, or Xmas 'battleforce' sets. It should be possible to build a large army with a limited number of core units relatively cheaply through this.

More rarely used or specialist units like aircraft and centrepiece superheavies will be sold at a premium price like Aeronautica.

I have high hope the one in charge of this game read the horus heresy rulebook as well as lore from google so they don't make blatantly mistakes like Aeronautica Imperialis books.

Price will be very important on this one

EBay currently has a lot of rhinos on it. Also the 1990s marine infantry/ transport sprue for less than £20. Grab them while they are available

Also also also?

Maybe we’ll see Heresy Era Squats. Leagues of Votann confirm they were part of it. And I’d love to see updates to their old gear. Spesh properly put through the Resizeograph.

Looking at the box contents, with infantry all in either 2 or 4 bases, I suspect that each side has one large infantry sprue doubled up that includes the dreadnoughts and sentinels respectively. Then aeronauticus sized sprues for 3 predators, 2 sicarans, 2 malcadors, 4 russes with the various options that will be doubled up for individual releases.

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Looking at the box contents, with infantry all in either 2 or 4 bases, I suspect that each side has one large infantry sprue doubled up that includes the dreadnoughts and sentinels respectively. Then aeronauticus sized sprues for 3 predators, 2 sicarans, 2 malcadors, 4 russes with the various options that will be doubled up for individual releases.

We just know too little to make reasonable guesses about how it will work out. Will their main method of sale be Detachment Boxes with a variety of things? Blisters/Clampacks? Direct-only resin tank? Will much of this line be available in-store, or is it a mostly direct-only affair? What about the rules? How big are games going to be? Will stuff like Warlord titans and equal/greater power level show up regularly? If it will, will it be the majority of one side, or more like a third/quarter of typical game points? And so on and so on.

Well by going how infantry is in that set I am going with this set up:

- 1 Big box of basic troopsm, which I say you can make 3 troops with command, may include some upgrades.
- 1 Or more specialist sets that have more upgrade options.

Andykp wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Better than “count up your total firepower, then consult the chart, then consult the chart modifiers, then grab that many dice, then roll them”.

It was a horrendous system for Epic, spesh coming off the back of 2nd Ed.

Epic 40000 was my favourite version of epic to play, It actually felt right for the scale. Loved it.

Indeed. It's the only version of Epic my group plays. And since we're stating opinion as fact, Epic 40,000 3rd is one of the best rulesets ever written. I have a snowball's chance in hell of this game being based on Epic 40,000 but it sure would be nice. If anything, this game will enter my group is a game we play occasionally but will will almost certainly continue to play Epic 40,000 as our defacto large-scale game.


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 Flinty wrote:
EBay currently has a lot of rhinos on it. Also the 1990s marine infantry/ transport sprue for less than £20. Grab them while they are available

The sprues with mk6 marines? I would highly advise against that. Those marines were undersized upon release and, while charming, just look awful. One major issue with all four editions of og Epic is that the internal scaling between infantry, tanks, fliers, titans, were completely off, including infantry within armies _on the same sprue_. Hell, Imperial Guardsmen were taller than those mk6 Space Marines and termagants are somehow significantly larger than orks.

I think the older Epic models weren't ever intended to be scaled correctly, they're more like those little abstract representations you, as a general, would push around on a table/holotable so the exact scale wasn't important

Legiones Imperialis looks like they are actually trying to keep everything in scale with each other, so mixing old & new won't really work. I could maybe see it with new titans & old tanks/infantry (in fact lots of people have put old epic minis on titan bases and they look great)

 zedmeister wrote:
No blast markers though.

Looks like it does have them afterall.

Blast Markers aren’t Blast Templates

They were cardboard standees put next to units that had been shot up, and if memory serves were how you kept track of break points for a formation.

Charax wrote:
I think the older Epic models weren't ever intended to be scaled correctly, they're more like those little abstract representations you, as a general, would push around on a table/holotable so the exact scale wasn't important

Epic scale in the 80's and 90's was heavily restricted by the production technology of the time. Both the original Warlord titan and later Imperator set records within GW for being the largest and most ambitious plastic kits of their generation. However in both cases they couldn't be nearly as large as intended because plastic tooling was relatively far more expensive than it is now. Other designs of titan originally cast with lead would have been similarly far too costly (and too heavy) to release at full size.

Epic infantry models were often made just large enough so that you could tell similar units apart, resulting in guardsmen at the same size as space marines. In order to support the needed details things like greater daemon equivalents initially had to be much larger than their 28mm counterparts, who were themselves made smaller than intended due to the cost of lead models.

With modern CAD-developed plastics most of those limitations are all gone. Plastic can support the tiniest details up to the very largest models, and the only restriction is how confident GW are for any given kit to sell enough units to turn a profit.

Yep blast markers effectively kept track of how much fire a unit had taken and was used for various morale-like effects

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Blast Markers aren’t Blast Templates

They were cardboard standees put next to units that had been shot up, and if memory serves were how you kept track of break points for a formation.

In Epic Armageddon blast markers also suppressed units and hindered them from shooting. You got one BM everytime you were under fire (regardless of any casualties) and one per unit destroyed. Some weapons, and large barrage attacks, could also give you additional markers. If the amount of markers reached the number of units in your formation, the formation was broken. The designer notes put it like this:

Blast markers are an attempt to show in a simple and
playable manner that the psychological effect of fire is
every bit as important, if not more important, than the
actual number of casualties caused. Blast markers
represent a whole range of personal disasters occurring
to the units in a formation: things being damaged,
squads being scattered, breaking or fleeing, and so on.
They are a vital part of Epic so don’t overlook their
importance. The rules for Blast markers reflect the fact
that most troops will tend to grind to a halt and seek
cover when they come under even quite a small amount
of fire (that’s why a single sniper can slow down many
times his own number of enemy troops), but will only
withdraw when a combination of casualties and
sustained enemy pressure convinces them that their
position is untenable and they should withdraw (which
is why a single sniper will rarely drive the enemy off)

You could get rid of BM by rallying or regrouping.

Crossfire also added blast markers. If you could draw a line between two of your formations through an enemy formation, they’d suffer additional blast markers. Encourages outflanking and positioning as well as air assaults to put enemy formations under pressure.

wondering if what you will get is blocky "fixed" formations, with a card that records damage and stats

keep in mind Adeptus Titanicus is basically totally different to what it used to be

may well go the route of "the contents of this box includes the card to deploy it", with only a few weapon swaps.

I'd love it to have the flavour and detail the 1st edition had but not holding my breath

the models look nice, this will stand or fall on pricing and the rules

I was pretty excited for the return of Epic, but 30K doesn't really do it for me.