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Shakalooloo wrote:Those streets look like a Monopoly board!

SamusDrake wrote:Forward men! For today we march...ON MAYFAIRRRRRRR!!!

I'm not totally against this!

Go straight to eye of terror, do not pass Mars.

SamusDrake wrote:
Forward men! For today we march...ON MAYFAIRRRRRRR!!!

"Sir, we've arrived. Apparently we're being charged £2,000. Something about a hotel..."

...and Horus is the mastermind behind it.

 zedmeister wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
Forward men! For today we march...ON MAYFAIRRRRRRR!!!

"Sir, we've arrived. Apparently we're being charged £2,000. Something about a hotel..."

That's just the price of the new resin Forge World tiles.

The houses & hotels cost extra.

 xttz wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:

SamusDrake wrote:
Forward men! For today we march...ON MAYFAIRRRRRRR!!!

"Sir, we've arrived. Apparently we're being charged £2,000. Something about a hotel..."

That's just the price of the new resin Forge World tiles.

The houses & hotels cost extra.

And the Votann have all the Land Trains...

 RexHavoc wrote:
Please be plastic tiles! The one thing I've always struggled with in Epic was getting good terrain done and half of that is I could never get roads/bases right for terrain! I'd honestly buy plastic tiles up and hoard them like the necromunda folk did back when they came out!

Troublemaker games do a good roads set
https://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/shop/roads-set/

I used a cheap method (which I stole from someone else) of a thin wargaming mat, where I cut out the floor plan and road sections and then just back then on some thin cork. You can then put your buildings and things on those, so you don't just have buildings on green grass.

 Pacific wrote:

 RexHavoc wrote:
Please be plastic tiles! The one thing I've always struggled with in Epic was getting good terrain done and half of that is I could never get roads/bases right for terrain! I'd honestly buy plastic tiles up and hoard them like the necromunda folk did back when they came out!

Troublemaker games do a good roads set
https://vanguardminiatures.co.uk/shop/roads-set/

I used a cheap method (which I stole from someone else) of a thin wargaming mat, where I cut out the floor plan and road sections and then just back then on some thin cork. You can then put your buildings and things on those, so you don't just have buildings on green grass.

That is truly a GLORIOUS spectacle

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Citation is gonna be “Chinny Reckon”. Spesh as GW don’t, and have never, offered sales figures per line. Indeed their next six month report isn’t due for another couple of days, going on the last published date of 10 January 2023.

So in theory, we’ll get the latest, year end, report on Monday. Certainly at some point next week.

Talking to people who have a line on independent retailers and the product they move. HH stuff doesn't sell (Except vindicators actually) well for at least the past year. It did massive when the game first dropped, but the sales have plummeted and stores are struggling to move the product.

Not a foolproof source, but I doubt that GW virtual or their own store sales are incredibly misaligned with independent retailers.

Thing is, the product that the retailers order in but doesn't sell and sits on their shelves is paid for and sold as far as GW is concerned - they track their own sales they make direct-to-consumer and to their distributors and retailers, they don't track the sales that their retailers make to their customers. As long as retailers continue to order-in and stock Horus Heresy product, GW will continue to believe its a hot-selling commodity.

As for GWs online and physical stores, theres a surprisingly large group of what I consider non-savvy consumers who use those as their primary resource to acquire GW product, even though its more expensive than other options. This is why GWs online and physical stores frequently sell out of their product allocations for many products, even while theres an excess of the same product available at local independent retailers. Over the past year I have seen quite a bit of new HH product sell out on release via GWs own website, even while local stores struggle to get any sales at all of the same kits.

stratigo wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Citation is gonna be “Chinny Reckon”. Spesh as GW don’t, and have never, offered sales figures per line. Indeed their next six month report isn’t due for another couple of days, going on the last published date of 10 January 2023.

So in theory, we’ll get the latest, year end, report on Monday. Certainly at some point next week.

Talking to people who have a line on independent retailers and the product they move. HH stuff doesn't sell (Except vindicators actually) well for at least the past year. It did massive when the game first dropped, but the sales have plummeted and stores are struggling to move the product.

Not a foolproof source, but I doubt that GW virtual or their own store sales are incredibly misaligned with independent retailers.

I'm friends with a few people that own gaming stores in a couple different states. I've heard the same and noticed it myself. When 30k launched, there were people lining up on release day outside my FLGS. One of my warhammer stores presold like 40 copies of the starter box. Individual squads would sell the day they hit the shelf. Now every store in my area has all the 30k releases going back about the last 8-10 months just sitting on the shelf collecting dust. The original 2-3 they ordered at release are still sitting there while they've sold through their entire 40k stock many times over. Nobody is playing the game, either.

IMO GW took way too long to release units after the starter set launched. Also, every important unit for your legion was sold out on FW for months. I wanted a full iron circle escort for Perturabo along with an IW dread. For 3-4 months they were sold out with 1 restock which was also gone by the time I woke up and checked my email. After that I threw all my 30k stuff in the closet and it hasn't come out since.

yes HH does suffer from what could loosely be called "where are my assault marines?" syndrome.

there are some locally playing it, and a few more who say they would, if they could get the units they actually want

People expected "Warhammer The Horus Heresy" not "Warhammer the Tank Game"...

RazorEdge wrote:
People expected "Warhammer The Horus Heresy" not "Warhammer the Tank Game"...

now look here see, if Battlefront can pretend WW1 was pretty much a tank on tank war I'm sure GW can tell fibs about a fictional battle being similar...

probably

or something

I'm waiting for them to troll everyone with a tank commander who has a jump pack

RazorEdge wrote:
People expected "Warhammer The Horus Heresy" not "Warhammer the Tank Game"...

Don't forget, your tank will get 1 rounded by a Contemptor that cost 100pts less...

leopard wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
People expected "Warhammer The Horus Heresy" not "Warhammer the Tank Game"...

now look here see, if Battlefront can pretend WW1 was pretty much a tank on tank war I'm sure GW can tell fibs about a fictional battle being similar...

probably

or something

I'm waiting for them to troll everyone with a tank commander who has a jump pack

They will release a HH Primaris tank commander with jump pack this summer

 RexHavoc wrote:

leopard wrote:

RazorEdge wrote:
People expected "Warhammer The Horus Heresy" not "Warhammer the Tank Game"...

now look here see, if Battlefront can pretend WW1 was pretty much a tank on tank war I'm sure GW can tell fibs about a fictional battle being similar...

probably

or something

I'm waiting for them to troll everyone with a tank commander who has a jump pack

They will release a HH Primaris tank commander with jump pack this summer

but, and this matters, will he also have a flag?

Doesn't seem like they are hyping this enough. I thought we would have daily articles leading up to its launch

I'm enjoying building Heresy armies very much... but I don't think it's realistically doable without a 3d printer and decent skill in digital kitbashing to boot. Outside nutters who can casually afford Forgeworld of course, but those were doing it already, the new edition didn't expand that demographic.

I kinda expect "Epic" to go the same way, massive sales of the starter and then a realization that the model range isn't large enough for fully functional games and there isn't even a backlog of Forgeworld resins in the right scale. Existing players will be divided between those who switch and those who don't but in the end Epic will still be largely played only by the same people who played it before the reboot.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I kinda expect "Epic" to go the same way, massive sales of the starter and then a realization that the model range isn't large enough for fully functional games and there isn't even a backlog of Forgeworld resins in the right scale. Existing players will be divided between those who switch and those who don't but in the end Epic will still be largely played only by the same people who played it before the reboot.

It's way, way easier to 3D print stuff at Epic scale, so even if you don't have a printer yourself there's going to be a glut of alternative minis available for sale.

A 3d printer is really the only way I was able to get some of the bits I needed for HH, I need alot of apothecary arms, so I had to print them.
Same with reader squads for songs of horus

GW released a whole lot of plastic tank kits, which is nice'n all, and something every legion can use...

...but I don't think people play HH to play "Tank: the Game". And at any rate, it's something better done at the scale of LI than at the scale of HH.

So here we are. With lots of tanks but lacking many basic options.

Toofast 809458 11565090 wrote:
I'm friends with a few people that own gaming stores in a couple different states. I've heard the same and noticed it myself. When 30k launched, there were people lining up on release day outside my FLGS. One of my warhammer stores presold like 40 copies of the starter box. Individual squads would sell the day they hit the shelf. Now every store in my area has all the 30k releases going back about the last 8-10 months just sitting on the shelf collecting dust.

I figure that's down to GW's conditioning of its customer base. Their fomo sales technique. GW customers are conditioned to buy it on release, or don't buy it at all, as they expect it to be gone for good anyway.

 Albertorius wrote:
GW released a whole lot of plastic tank kits, which is nice'n all, and something every legion can use...

...but I don't think people play HH to play "Tank: the Game". And at any rate, it's something better done at the scale of LI than at the scale of HH.

So here we are. With lots of tanks but lacking many basic options.

It is crazy, I think quite a few people (including me) thought the idea was to make tanks and dreads that could pull double duty (and get double sales or more) in 30k and 40k. It seemed like a genuinely smart decision by GW for once.

3d printerings..

well since this was announced I have printed, and painted

- 6x Land Raider
- 8x Rhino
- 6x Whirlwind

printed and awaiting paint

- 2x Damocles
- 6x vindicator
- 10x tactical marine stands, the excellent "galactic crusaders" range
- 2x assault marine stands

my aim is upon release to have at least the box contents as viable alternatives, note I will be getting the box as well anyway but this way will be able to get a game very rapidly

was amazed just how good these guys are when printed, a lot of the models are the 40k version but the level of detail is astounding

 lord_blackfang wrote:


I kinda expect "Epic" to go the same way, massive sales of the starter and then a realization that the model range isn't large enough for fully functional games and there isn't even a backlog of Forgeworld resins in the right scale. Existing players will be divided between those who switch and those who don't but in the end Epic will still be largely played only by the same people who played it before the reboot.

I hope this doesn't happen. Yes I know you will get some who just hop on the latest shiny thing and come and go, but I think the scale and concept can stand up on its own and hopefully the Epic community will get a nice bump to its numbers even after the game is no longer fashionable.
You have players coming in from AT and AI as well, and it's a short jump for them.
Probably a lot will rest on the quality of the ruleset (if it's a good one, there will be no shortage of people in the community proselytising about it).
If the model range is poor, there is already a massive range of proxies and 3D prints available - hopefully there will be enough people playing in clubs that they can help direct those who would normally only buy new/official GW stuff.

 catbarf wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I kinda expect "Epic" to go the same way, massive sales of the starter and then a realization that the model range isn't large enough for fully functional games and there isn't even a backlog of Forgeworld resins in the right scale. Existing players will be divided between those who switch and those who don't but in the end Epic will still be largely played only by the same people who played it before the reboot.

It's way, way easier to 3D print stuff at Epic scale, so even if you don't have a printer yourself there's going to be a glut of alternative minis available for sale.

If enough people do this the game is still as dead as if no one buys anything at all

 Albertorius wrote:
GW released a whole lot of plastic tank kits, which is nice'n all, and something every legion can use...

...but I don't think people play HH to play "Tank: the Game". And at any rate, it's something better done at the scale of LI than at the scale of HH.

So here we are. With lots of tanks but lacking many basic options.

People I know mostly grumble about HH not getting garbled word salad rules cleaned up in two years. 40k and AoS are really charmed in having a fast turn around of FAQs and balance updates.

I mean I still play and have fun with HH, but Legions Imperialis is probably gonna take up all that space I have an interest for in the setting (*Stares forlornly at the way too much money spent on HH*)

 Pacific wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:


I kinda expect "Epic" to go the same way, massive sales of the starter and then a realization that the model range isn't large enough for fully functional games and there isn't even a backlog of Forgeworld resins in the right scale. Existing players will be divided between those who switch and those who don't but in the end Epic will still be largely played only by the same people who played it before the reboot.

I hope this doesn't happen. Yes I know you will get some who just hop on the latest shiny thing and come and go, but I think the scale and concept can stand up on its own and hopefully the Epic community will get a nice bump to its numbers even after the game is no longer fashionable.
You have players coming in from AT and AI as well, and it's a short jump for them.
Probably a lot will rest on the quality of the ruleset (if it's a good one, there will be no shortage of people in the community proselytising about it).
If the model range is poor, there is already a massive range of proxies and 3D prints available - hopefully there will be enough people playing in clubs that they can help direct those who would normally only buy new/official GW stuff.

It's all down to profit. GW's willing to support a game that makes consistent returns, but there will always be a lag after they drop what they originally planned while they assess whether the profits justify producing more

But several games are getting consistent support. And several... aren't.

I printed

Lion El jonson

10 knight cenobium
10 deathwing companions
60 mkII tacticals
10 Interemptors
6 Rhino
2 Armoured proteus
1 Spartan
2 Deredeo
2 Leviathans with storm cannons
3 contemptors 2 with las/fist and 1 dual lascannon

and I will still buy the box on release as I want continued support for it as time goes on, I will not be printing Titans and the like as I really like the GW models and the prices are not too bad considering.

stratigo wrote:
If enough people do this the game is still as dead as if no one buys anything at all

Well, sucks to suck I guess. If GW doesn't provide a sufficiently complete range to actually play the game, people are going to turn to alternatives.

If there are a variety of plastics right out of the gate at reasonable prices then there won't be any incentive to deal with Etsy sellers.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:

Same with reader squads for songs of horus

Well, reading the lyrics is one thing. I hope they also have the voices to perform them properly.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I'm enjoying building Heresy armies very much... but I don't think it's realistically doable without a 3d printer and decent skill in digital kitbashing to boot. Outside nutters who can casually afford Forgeworld of course, but those were doing it already, the new edition didn't expand that demographic.

I don't entirely agree. Clearly, 3-D printing is filling the gaps for many HH players. But there is a lot of scope for converting what you need from other kits. There are a few problematic issues, but there is a lot of enjoyment to be had in coming up with your own versions of things. As an Ork player in WH40k, I'm used to building what I can't buy. I have had to resort to eBay though.

I suspect that 10th Edition will drive some more players to try HH. But there is no doubt that GW needs to plug the main (non-vehicle) gaps in the range with plastic kits, and probably do a proper FAQ for the rules.