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 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Honestly, delay is a good thing for some budgets.

A delay is also much, much better than a botched launch that could very well kill the game before it even takes of, i'm happy to wait a few weeks to months instead of running into 'out of stock' immediately.

SU-152 wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Again I'd like to see how players would make Terminators without the USRs. Would you just preferer a paragraph that states cant ride in rhinos, or should every vehicle list what it can hold? Terminators teleporting has always been a thing since Terminators were released way back in Rogue Trader. There are games with less USRs sure but units still then have a paragraph of special rules you have to track.

Extremely easy:

instead of the Ward Save, +1 to the normal save and to CAF.
instead of the other 2 morale rules, +1 to morale.
remove bulky, and do like in 4th edition.
The rules of the weapons could have been avoided with an AP/AT system, like 4th edition.

Just keep teleport.

Oh, and that way there's more difference in power with tacticals, which is extremely low (they are just slightly better tacticals - when they should be way way better than them).

I submit that those are poor and generic options. Plus you've just substituted USRs as AP and AT are USRs in anything but name, they just weren't refereed to as USRs. You've also now added clunky USRs to every single firing action.
Removing bulky and replacing with another rule is the same thing as having a USR. A USR is just a convenient reference to a rule.

So lets go over shall we
Accurate lets them rerolls missed hits, You didn't address this but you'd probably just make them +4 to hit...( I hate rerolls so I'm ok with that)
Assault we don't even know what that does yet
Light again don't know what that means yet, is not the same as light AT which is known
Bulky you would replace with another rule so at least with USR we have reference on the card.
Deep Strike you would Keep
Implacable and Steadfast you would replace with a +1 morale which lacks flavor and impact, besides I'm sure there may be other elite units that get +1 morale
You' get rid of the invol 6+ and just make them save 3+ Pretty much a wash percentage wise, one less die to roll.
But you would add at least 2 USRS in AT\AP system.

So you would in effect get rid of 4 USRS that might be applicable to other units.....but you'd add 2, so still six and now they have less flavor.


Your way they are just tacticals with a few pips of stat difference, in LI they are very stubborn and act like elite unmovable rocks. Now they should get one more shot with their auto cannon, but they had to "Dummie it up for the hardheads" who would complain about too many weapons stats in one unit while also not having to make them substantially more expensive as you would effectively double thier shots and vastly improving one of those shots. I'm willing to concede those shots so I can have more stands. Terminators in EA are Monsters and feel like what they should be, but are super expensive, Im good with the current LI stats and price.

Sarouan wrote:

Billicus wrote:


I don't know why you'd want the official GW rules to be a one-page-rules style effort given how easy it is to just remove stuff you don't want to play with yourself and how quickly someone (probably OPR themselves) will come out with a simple version anyway.

We don't want that. In term of game systems, there's not just these extremes. It's also possible to have a middle ground.

After all, GW did produce games like Epic 40k in the past. Here for LI, they chose an older version as base that was already known as complex and bloated, instead of posterior versions that were "lighter" in comparison.

We'll have the same Horus heresy issue : the game appeals to veterans (most of them having all what they need to play, anyway), but struggles to have new players because of well the game system being old and bloated, and thus doesn't sell that well in comparison to others - leading to a prophetized end with "it doesn't sell enough" as self-fulfilled justification.

Oh well. If it's fun for those passionnate enough to jump on the wagon, at least they'll have a good time for as long as it lasts.

2nd Epic was the most well received version of the game. When the other editions came out interest dwindled fast. Veterans like me love to see the game return with the Orders system, CAF melee and dedicated USR. Everybody who wants "Simplified but not simple" should try out 10th 40K instead.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Apple fox wrote:
I am really just not seeing that much complexity yet.

The only scare is the possibility for GW bloat. But at least now, I think it’s fairly reasonable and I don’t think it will take that long to go through a turn.

Off corse it’s also just a positive not to like the game itself, but that I do think is different from the design issues itself as of yet.

I also think they probably pick the heresy as it is a niche setting, so as not to take sales from 40K.
Not splitting the setting players to much, something that other 40K products tend to have is heavy cross compatibility.

How can there be bloat when there are only two factions in the game?


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 Albertorius wrote:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Four. The Kratos has four weapons.

Turret
Co-Axial Autocannon
Hull
Sponsons.

That’s it. If you’re overwhelmed by that, I don’t know what to say. Spesh as that’s a Heavy Tank, so most others are going to have Turret and Sponson only.

Six, if the hull and sponson weapons are actually stats for a single of them. And yes, it's a Heavy Tank... So? So is the Land Raider. And you could have oodles of those.

But the thing is that a detachment of those, even if they all shoot the same enemy detachment, will need four separate rolls to resolve, because each gun has a different to hit, a different armor penalty and different special rules.

To resolve shooting for a single detachment, out of how many? Each round?

Feels like way too fiddle for a game where I want to be the general commanding sweep movements and gak.

But to each their own. I'll keep playing other games, it's still cool to see new minis.

Also, I think portraying people that think that's excessive detail as being "overwhelmed" is purposefully misrepresenting the issue, here.

Then you should never play 40K, if you are repulsed by that. There you grab a bucket of dice and roll for hit, wound and saves. Epic makes you roll a couple of dice for hit rolls and the majority of targets evaporate when hit. Some may have saving throws. You make an elephant out of a mosquito.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Honestly, delay is a good thing for some budgets.

A delay is also much, much better than a botched launch that could very well kill the game before it even takes of, i'm happy to wait a few weeks to months instead of running into 'out of stock' immediately.

why do you think this won't be the case if it is delayed?

Bummed about the launch getting postponed, I was really looking forward to it!

Oh well, at least the new KT21 season launches soon enough..

Kill Team wasn't until Autumn.

Tsagualsa wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Honestly, delay is a good thing for some budgets.

A delay is also much, much better than a botched launch that could very well kill the game before it even takes of, i'm happy to wait a few weeks to months instead of running into 'out of stock' immediately.

Is the delay time to build up a bigger stock? Doubtful as that would mean sitting half a year awaiting reprints and shipping of the books/card material from china.

More likely it's to sort the feth up of warehouse moving.
Eg, my order from mid July of in-stock items is still 'pending' and usually it's only a day before despatch. I know they said there would be delays, but it's pushing two weeks now. I figure things are not going as smoothly in that move as GW expected.

SU-152 wrote:

 Andrew1975 wrote:
Again I'd like to see how players would make Terminators without the USRs. Would you just preferer a paragraph that states cant ride in rhinos, or should every vehicle list what it can hold? Terminators teleporting has always been a thing since Terminators were released way back in Rogue Trader. There are games with less USRs sure but units still then have a paragraph of special rules you have to track.

Extremely easy:

instead of the Ward Save, +1 to the normal save and to CAF.
instead of the other 2 morale rules, +1 to morale.
remove bulky, and do like in 4th edition.
The rules of the weapons could have been avoided with an AP/AT system, like 4th edition.

Just keep teleport.

Oh, and that way there's more difference in power with tacticals, which is extremely low (they are just slightly better tacticals - when they should be way way better than them).

Agreed, thise seem sensible. I still think that infantry in Epic scaled games should not have access to the like of invulnerable saves... even Terminators. The weapons being used in such a scale are of city leveling power, infantry should not be able to survive such.

Again, people saying that thise of us are complaining about '8 special rules being too complex'. No one has made that claim, just that it seems a bit much, and there are better ways to do it. In Epic, unit statline and wargear statline is what should really be the thing used to make things different and stand out.

 zedmeister wrote:
Nice to see a proper Mole Mortars return of old

A proper mole mortar is a four foot tube angled into the ground, with a bipod supporting the raised end, and a guy standing behind it with a hand-held control device.



I used to have a lone metal epic marine mole mortar that came as an extra random bit in a blister of something else (it was common to get a single random metal epic figure in an unrelated epic blister back in the day). I might still have it sitting somewhere, though I'm not sure I still have it.

Shame about the delay. I'm curious what the cause is. It must be pretty important if they'd announce it at this late of a date. Hopefully they can get it resolved swiftly, with a release next month.

The delay is unfortunate, but it does allow me to save more money for it.

Terminators had a 6+ invulnerable save in 2nd edition, as well. The rationale given was that flat ground on the table usually isn't perfectly flat in a real situation, with "small" (at this scale) otherwise seemingly inconsequential dips in the ground being big enough to conceal a man. That, coupled with the sheer toughness of the terminator suits, means that sometimes they narrowly escape what would be certain death for any other infantry.

 Kanluwen wrote:
Kill Team wasn't until Autumn.

September is a lot closer than "early 2024"

 tauist wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Kill Team wasn't until Autumn.

September is a lot closer than "early 2024"

Sure, but September is just the start of Autumn.

Do you realize how much stuff is slated for Autumn? Heck, we still haven't gotten the "slated for summer" Kill Team solo releases from Gallowfall.

WarCom wrote:While we had initially hoped to release Legions Imperialis in August, the release date will now be a little later in the year. Don’t worry – you’ll be commanding a tiny legion of troops to victory very soon.

Given some of the confusion generated by a few of the preview articles, I'm wondering if they might be taking a second look at some of the components - unit cards and such.

There was a note on the UK webstore that they're in the process of migrating warehouses, that's more likely than not the cause of the delay.

 Kanluwen wrote:
There was a note on the UK webstore that they're in the process of migrating warehouses, that's more likely than not the cause of the delay.

As I mentioned a few posts above.

Just received an email about the order as well, which seems to confirm it's taking them longer than expected...

"Greetings Rogue Traders.
We are reaching out to you today regarding your recent mail order -XXXXXXXXXXX.
Due to recent improvements being made with our logistics facilities, we are experiencing a few delays beyond those that were advertised on our web store.
Please don’t worry, your order is safe in our system and will be processed again once the improvements have been completed.
We thank you for your continued patience and ask that you keep an eye
out on your emails for a dispatch confirmation to follow over the next few weeks. "

I guess I won't be reading that novel I ordered over my summer holidays. :-(

Tsagualsa wrote:

 MajorWesJanson wrote:
Honestly, delay is a good thing for some budgets.

A delay is also much, much better than a botched launch that could very well kill the game before it even takes of, i'm happy to wait a few weeks to months instead of running into 'out of stock' immediately.

For more kits produced for launch would mean delay is quite long though.

 schoon wrote:

WarCom wrote:While we had initially hoped to release Legions Imperialis in August, the release date will now be a little later in the year. Don’t worry – you’ll be commanding a tiny legion of troops to victory very soon.

Given some of the confusion generated by a few of the preview articles, I'm wondering if they might be taking a second look at some of the components - unit cards and such.

That would require redesigning and reprinting the cards in question, which would probably push the release back until next year.

Funny how people think special rules needed for flavour. Gw marketing at work


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 schoon wrote:

WarCom wrote:While we had initially hoped to release Legions Imperialis in August, the release date will now be a little later in the year. Don’t worry – you’ll be commanding a tiny legion of troops to victory very soon.

Given some of the confusion generated by a few of the preview articles, I'm wondering if they might be taking a second look at some of the components - unit cards and such.

Gosh i hope not. I would like to see game before summer 24.

Booo. But, hopefully it’ll mean greater stock levels for launch?

Also rather liking the Solar Auxilia Support units. Rapiers and Tarantulas aren’t something I ever had in my 2nd Ed Armies, and we get a decent amount in this box.

A delay to allow you to get some games of Net Epic or Armageddon in beforehand, get some minis from Vanguard or 3D prints and get a head start!

tneva82 wrote:
Funny how people think special rules needed for flavour. Gw marketing at work

I think the fan reaction to Epic 40k was the driver for GW's special rules focus, rather than the other way round.

We seem to be at E:A levels for USRs which is a nice level imo.

Likely just a delay to get copies to "influencers", I doubt it's going to make a meaningful difference for customers

Regardless of the reason, I'm just hoping the delay is relatively short.

Fall is fine. Winter would be a harder wait.

Billicus wrote:
Likely just a delay to get copies to "influencers", I doubt it's going to make a meaningful difference for customers

Most influencers probably already have them.

A few things through the grapevine.

This weekend's collectible coin at Warhammer stores was supposed to be fore Legiones Imperialis (via a few store facebook pages and leaks).

Rumor is that the delay is due to the rulebook needing to be reprinted due to some politically charged quotes. I'm not here to start a political discussion, just sharing what's been shared in other places.

If they really did pull the product launch because of needing to reprint some troublesome material, I say kudos to GW. Better to put your best foot forward rather than try to correct something when it's already out in the wild.

In the meantime, we're still waiting on Tyranids, Space Marines, Cities of Sigmar, and a handful of other things. We've also heard NOTHING about Kill Team in some time, the store desperately needs to continue restocking a ton of supplies, and the warehouse move needs to finish.

And I know most of y'all got stuff to build and paint, so get to it.

Well if it's reprint of rulebook long wait ahead

That seems…unlikely. Anything sent to print would’ve been proofed and cleared well in advance. And it’s far from cheap to get it all reprinted.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
That seems…unlikely. Anything sent to print would’ve been proofed and cleared well in advance. And it’s far from cheap to get it all reprinted.

I mean, a little cost now better than a potential ****storm that could have come due to GW printing something really bad.

It would also imply them having to open up every single Legiones Imperialis starter box and swap the books out, which in and of itself is a logistics nightmare, especially when you're talking about doing that and trying to keep the delicate sprues within whole. If rushed, I foresee lots of people getting damaged boxes.

Printing speed isn't that bad. If I was GW I'd go to a US printing studio for speed (they've done it before. 9th ed Orks codex at least). If they got new books from China, we wouldn't be seeing LI until next summer.

Yet anything that bad would’ve been picked up during page setting, proofing etc?

As ever I’m not shooting the messenger here. Just kind of suspicious about the claim.