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Shrapnelsmile wrote: is it true these tanks are in a vast number of small pieces for assembly? Several youtubers were discussing that.
It's true, I have seen the models and the building instructions. If you ever built Aeronautica Imperialis planes / Adeptus Titanicus knights, it's the same amount of nitpicking small parts. But the end result is really worth the time building them.
As expected, the expansion material isn't present at launch.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/11/13 00:12:56
chaos0xomega wrote: Oh good, I'll probably see if I can afford 4 boxes or so at launch, and get another 7 or 8 or more over time unless the cost curve favors buying the individual boxes instead, etc.
Why do you need so many? I know you explained wanting to do every Legion, but wouldn't it be better to buy the other things than just get the same box over and over again?
TalonZahn wrote: As for the queue, it's not even I.P. locked and is barely *cookie* tracked. I've used multiple sessions of the same browser and/or multiple browsers to sit in the queue in 4-5 spots.
edit: apparently anything not listed here is direct-only
Here is the complete version:
The video does also show the other Cerastus variants, the Porphyrion, the Warbringer and the two different warhound versions but the in the text of the article it doesn't say anything about them so that might be mistake and they will come later. Which would make the price list more believable as they are also missing here
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/11/13 01:21:47
chaos0xomega wrote: Oh good, I'll probably see if I can afford 4 boxes or so at launch, and get another 7 or 8 or more over time unless the cost curve favors buying the individual boxes instead, etc.
Why do you need so many? I know you explained wanting to do every Legion, but wouldn't it be better to buy the other things than just get the same box over and over again?
Way I see it is it just kind of makes sense. I'm going to need infantry for most of the legions I want to do (if possible id like to lean into bikes for white scars, so maybe not for them, and maybe i'll try to go for an armored list for one of the others or something, we'll see), some I may want to go heavy into regular tactical marines (iron warriors, imp fists, and death guard for example), while others I may want to lean into terminators or assault marines, etc. So given that you only get I think 2 bases of assault marines, 2 bases of terminators, etc. per set (regardless of how you buy them), I'm going to need a lot of sets to do the mix and matching I want to do. On top of that, from what I've gathered the contents of the box is basically half the infantry you realistically want for a typical force - though since Im more likely going to be playing a mixed legion force on the table I probably don't need to buy a second set of infantry for each legion.
Contemptors - great I'll probably use them in just about every legion, maybe i'll lean in on them more heavily in some than in others, whatever. More is more.
Sicarans and Predators? Well those are basically being sold to me in half sets, so I basically need to convert them at a ratio of 2 boxes to 1 unit, so if I get 12 boxes, I end up with 6 detachments or whatever worth of each, etc. I wont necessarily field preds or sicarans with every force I do, so not a big deal, and I'll eventually be buying Kratos's and other stuff as well, but it'll be a good foundation for a good number of the forces I want to build.
If I were to buy this stuff individually I'd be paying $150 msrp anyway, and not getting warhound titans or solar auxilia, so might as well just spend the extra $50 until I have most of the infantry, dreads, preds, and sicarans I need. If it reaches the point where I have too many warhounds or SA I can always start parting stuff out to make it more cost effective. Books I can probably get $20/ea back for if nothing else.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
* These products have all been delayed for a short time in Australia and New Zealand.
Yeah, that'd be right
Not sure if I should be happy or sad. Sad that I have to wait, happy to see that I get to see how the launch goes in other places before having to commit myself.
Well, I’ve still got minis back to the original game that have barely seen use, and a mass of 3D prints, so the price point for this is out of my tolerance level.
Likewise, even $60 for the rulebook alone is a bit of a cringe, knowing the quality of GW rules.
I think in the end the right thing for me to do is just go back to what I already have and see if I can find someone to play with using just that and whatever rules I can scrape up.
Cleaning and assembling these tiny models is going to drive new gamers bonkers.
The infantry, OK to have separate and then base, but did the vehicles need to be in so many parts?
Repeat for hundreds of infantry and dozens of vehicles for a base army.
2025: Games Played:0/Models Bought:93/Sold:0/Painted:69
2024: Games Played:6/Models Bought:393/Sold:519/Painted: 207
2023: Games Played:0/Models Bought:287/Sold:0/Painted: 203
2020-2022: Games Played:42/Models Bought:1271/Sold:631/Painted:442
2016-19: Games Played:369/Models Bought:772/Sold:378/ Painted:268
2012-15: Games Played:412/Models Bought: 1163/Sold:730/Painted:436
No more bonkers than gamers years ago or gamers getting super fine detail 3D prints today.
Also don't forget a LOT of people don't "see" mould lines on models. Heck even at least one or two of the example models in WD this month that were painted up have very clear mould lines on gun barrels.
Plus people have managed with the AT game; this is no different; its just "more" because its going from a few knights to tanks and ranks of infantry
And yes the tanks likely do have to come in that many parts to allow for
1) Modular design so that 1 hull can build multiple variations
2) Retain high detail. If you've got high detail you've got to part those tanks up otherwise you have to lose a LOT of it because of the realities of injection moulded plastics. In the past GW got away with it a bit in Epic 40K by having metal models that had way more detail; but even then core tank hulls and side panels with treds and such were common
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/11/13 02:19:08
Does anything need to be in so many parts? I've started to build the new Terminator box. Why in the Emperor's name is each set of legs in 5 pieces? You can't even pose the model at the waist once you're done. Maddening over design.
Overread wrote: No more bonkers than gamers years ago or gamers getting super fine detail 3D prints today.
Sure, but most people who buy this game won't have been buying tiny 3D-printed models. So his point still stands - cleaning up and assembling these little models will test the more inexperienced players.
Retain high detail. If you've got high detail you've got to part those tanks up otherwise you have to lose a LOT of it because of the realities of injection moulded plastics. In the past GW got away with it a bit in Epic 40K by having metal models that had way more detail; but even then core tank hulls and side panels with treds and such were common
And GW have arguably pushed this too far. I love their plastics as a rule, but there are numerous examples of questionable design decisions when it comes to placement on the sprues and how pieces are assembled, and simply the amount of small detail. Fixing damaged rivets on these small vehicles will also be a nightmare. To some extent I am trying to convince myself not to invest in yet another pile of grey plastic, but I think these are real issues. Painting them, on the other hand, is far easier than larger scale models - they are perfect for washing and drybrushing.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
H.B.M.C. wrote: Does anything need to be in so many parts? I've started to build the new Terminator box. Why in the Emperor's name is each set of legs in 5 pieces? You can't even pose the model at the waist once you're done. Maddening over design.
Indeed. The Heresy Dreads all seem to have multiple sub-assemblies, and take ages to clean up and assemble (and force me to read the instructions). But it does pay off when it comes to the look of the finished model.
Build a man a fire, and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire, and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.
buy stock in the manufacturers of popsicle sticks. People will be buying them by the truckload in order to paint up their infantry before putting them on the bases.
CoALabaer wrote: Wargamers hate two things: the state of the game and change.
I really hope that's not how the actual book got printed, because it looks like the problem print that they likely had to redo all this crap for in the first place.
On the other hand, are people really complaining about building model kits now? Jesus Christ, Dakkadakka...
Chopstick wrote: Use a tweezer and a glue bottle with fine tip brush. I don't even need tweezer 90% of the time. This is basic hobby skill.
It entirely depends whether or not people care about mould lines.
If you can live with mould lines on your tiny dudes, assembly will be very fast (looks like the gates were designed to attach to the blob between the legs, so all you need to do is clip them off and glue them down).
If you can't live with mould lines, prepare for hour upon hour of cramps trying to clean tiny little dudes.
10 year old me back in the mid 90's didn't care about mould lines. Old cranky me in the 10's cares more. Partially because old cranky me uses a lot of washes and drybrushes, and leaving mould lines on when washing and drybrushing makes them stand out and look terrible.
Perhaps modern GW casting can reduce mould lines to the point they don't need to be cleaned, perhaps.
But this is why Epic is basically made for 3D printing A well designed 3D printed model has almost no cleanup, just glue it down and it's good to go with no mould lines.
Interesting to see an increase in price on the questoris knights. They were already overpriced at $35 for 3 (one sprue). Jumping them to $45 seems odd. Maybe they’re putting 6 per box?
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Adding up the cost and multiplying by 1.5 to get roughly the Australian pricing... I think this game is going to be too expensive for me.
Though I haven't tried to add up the points, maybe I'm just overestimating how much would be required to make an army.
Someone added up points over on B&C so this may help you estimate:
A thunder hawk is 150 points for £30
The Kratos squadron is 260 points for £30
The rhinos are 50 points for £30
The auxilia are 218 points for £30
The lightnings are 170 points for £30
The marauders are 170 points for £30
The baneblades are 190 points for £30
The questoris banner is (i think) 180 for £27.5
xttz wrote: edit: apparently anything not listed here is direct-only
Oh that will go great for the game... so no non-GW discounts on anything else. Great, great.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Stormonu wrote: Well, I’ve still got minis back to the original game that have barely seen use, and a mass of 3D prints, so the price point for this is out of my tolerance level.
Likewise, even $60 for the rulebook alone is a bit of a cringe, knowing the quality of GW rules.
I think in the end the right thing for me to do is just go back to what I already have and see if I can find someone to play with using just that and whatever rules I can scrape up.
Yeah, I still have like a chapter's worth of old SM sprues, both infantry and vehicles, to run through...
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Overread wrote: No more bonkers than gamers years ago or gamers getting super fine detail 3D prints today. common
Dunno man, these have 5 pieces at the very highest end
Spoiler:
Took all of a minute to assemble.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
drbored wrote: I really hope that's not how the actual book got printed, because it looks like the problem print that they likely had to redo all this crap for in the first place.
On the other hand, are people really complaining about building model kits now? Jesus Christ, Dakkadakka...
I'm told it's not, and that's actually the other way around... apparently the original book had the wonky cover and it's centered on the new one.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2023/11/13 07:25:46
AllSeeingSkink wrote: Adding up the cost and multiplying by 1.5 to get roughly the Australian pricing... I think this game is going to be too expensive for me.
Though I haven't tried to add up the points, maybe I'm just overestimating how much would be required to make an army.
Someone added up points over on B&C so this may help you estimate:
A thunder hawk is 150 points for £30
The Kratos squadron is 260 points for £30
The rhinos are 50 points for £30
The auxilia are 218 points for £30
The lightnings are 170 points for £30
The marauders are 170 points for £30
The baneblades are 190 points for £30
The questoris banner is (i think) 180 for £27.5
I was thinking along the lines of starter set + Kratos + Rhino + Baneblade + Infantry set + maybe something else, then when they come out a box of Predators + Leman Russ + Land Raiders.
That's ~$600USD, which will likely end up $900-1000AUD. Seems a bit much to me for what feels like a medium sized army, but maybe that's actually a big army?
