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 Pacific wrote:

MaxT wrote:


You’ll be able to get it off eBay for cheap, many peeps will be buying 2+ boxes

Yes right - this happened with AoD too, I would be surprised if you have to pay more than £10 for a rulebook within a couple of weeks of release as the 2nd hand market will be flooded with them.

Cheers, I'll keep my eye on it.

Not sure if this is a good sign going forward as the Horus Heresy rulebook has been avaliable from indies from day one and with discount. The only other GW game(to my knowledge) that has a direct-only rule book is Aeronautica. The previous edition rulebook for HH was also direct only(from FW) and that was mostly out of sight, out of mind.

I can only assume this is a consequence of reprinting the core book, if that was the reason for the delay. Personally, Legions is shaping up to be an expensive exercise as I'm already looking at two books just to field a Knight army and I've already spent as much for them in Titanicus. If there's WhiteDwarf rules for Legios and Houses I might reconsider...

But for now I'll just treat myself to some of the infantry models for use in Horizon Wars and as Titan-Hunters(Heavy Sentials or Marine Devastator squads) in Titanicus, and leave Legions for another time. Hopefully we might see the odd Solar unit pop up in Titanicus, probably the Baneblade variants.

 Pacific wrote:
The Baneblade price does seem a bit high, I think if a retailer does 20% off that might bring it down but the problem for GW here is that even if you don't have a 3D printer you can get them from Etsy for £6-7 each or a proxy from Vanguard for a similar price. £20 for 2 tanks would have felt a lot more reasonable.
.

I was doing some comparing last night and vanguard seems to be around €3 per vehicle (trying to factor in postage and fee costs per tank as well) and Gw are anything from €4 to €10 without FLGS discount. Bigger vehicles are €20, €40 (without discount again). But I know I don't end up with any import fees with GW.

Its not the best priced game, but its not bad for modern GW. Rhinos in a box of 10 are actually not to bad at €4 each. I think the real issue with pricing comes with everything having the same set price but including less tanks per set. (6 land raiders per box sucks!)

The baneblades are overpriced but they are probably expecting people to only pic up 1-3 sets each at most. They probably didn't factor in idiots like me that want to buy things in 10-100s for the old rules.

I'm just going to stick to having 'official' models for the main portion of a marine force, I'll continue to use vanguard for the bulk of my big game forces.

I just hope that with their drip feed approach to releasing this game (not counting the rush to get the bulk of the release out soon after due to the delay) that we will see some additional discounted sets in the future to really bulk out collections for bigger games. We know big knight and titan sets are coming, so hopefully next year we will see a marine battleforce or some discounted 100 tank bundles!

(I'd laugh, but imagine after a couple of years of people collecting and having big collections GW then releases Epic Apocalypse rules. I'd have to laugh, but I'd not put it past them )

Do we think this will be it for releases up to Xmas or do we think anything else will come out prior to the 2th Dec?

VAYASEN wrote:
Do we think this will be it for releases up to Xmas or do we think anything else will come out prior to the 2th Dec?

For Legions, probably not. GW tend to keep releases for the same system around a month apart so that people's wallets have a chance to recover. I'd expect the next LI wave in January.

There should still be time for other GW releases before xmas though, including Necrons and maybe Kill Team.

 xttz wrote:

VAYASEN wrote:
Do we think this will be it for releases up to Xmas or do we think anything else will come out prior to the 2th Dec?

For Legions, probably not. GW tend to keep releases for the same system around a month apart so that people's wallets have a chance to recover. I'd expect the next LI wave in January.

There should still be time for other GW releases before xmas though, including Necrons and maybe Kill Team.

Sorry, yes I mean LI specifically.

Just trying to work out what to allocate money to prior to Xmas and more stuff coming would 'complicate' that

I could see GW perhaps sneaking out the Flesheater update as they've been teasing models for that for a bit.

Wow, those painting guides are really good, and motivating...

 Matrindur wrote:
Prices:

Spoiler:

Think that is a regretful nope from me. Really wanted to get knto this, but those prices are just too high to justify, especially for a game that is going to be hard to get an opponent here in the remote West of Ireland.

Doesn't bode well for Warhammer The Old World, if these are the sort of prices they are putting in their nostalgic games.

I think Legions Imperials isn't going to sell to well, and GW will take this to mean there is no market for these sort of games, when infat there is... just not at unreasonable prices.

 stonehorse wrote:
I think Legions Imperials isn't going to sell to well, and GW will take this to mean there is no market for these sort of games, when infat there is... just not at unreasonable prices.

I'm going to predict it'll sell out initially as all the rabid weirdos buy up, then restock and stagnate.

Happy to be proven wrong, but that's my guess.

I'll probably maybe buy a starter set and some Baneblades and leave it there.

The AI prices were high but kinda bearable in the sense you only needed a couple of boxes to make a reasonable squadron.

Two people signed up for the starter at the FLGS which is a record low for any new line, despite owner trying to drum up interest with promises of a store campaign

 TalonZahn wrote:
It's pretty sad the main book doesn't have all the rules/points for all the main units/minis for what is essentially 2 armies.

We're looking at what... 2 months? and there has to be a 2nd book already.

It doesn't? Damn. So a $60USD rulebook, then what, another $60 book to get the unit rules and points? Urgh.

Remember when all the Epic rules came in the boxed set? Pepperidge Farm remembers.

I think LI will be fine.

I'm sure there are plenty of people like me that will have 900 pts of titans and knights already.

A starter set of AI and a thunderhawk have given me 635 pts of planes.

Starter set marines & Astartes infantry set comes to what? 600-650 pts?

That's me at 2,100 pts or so off the core box and 1 of the most basic boxes you can get.

I also easily have another 900 pts of titans and knights, starter Solar Aux and AI imperial navy fighters as the beginnings of a 2nd army.

I also have my AT terrain ready to go.

I'm already most of the way there, I'm already invested and I expect lots of people are thinking the same.

Do we have a list of points values of things?

I imagine I'd have a decent sized army given I have a giant pile of Imperial aircraft from AI and 2 Reavers and 2 Warhounds from AT.... but not sure that's going to be a "fun" army to play with, Epic for me has always been about the tanks, dreadnoughts, bikes, buggies, battlewagons, seems a shame to do an Epic army that doesn't feature those things heavily.

Vorian wrote:
I think LI will be fine.

I'm sure there are plenty of people like me that will have 900 pts of titans and knights already.

A starter set of AI and a thunderhawk have given me 635 pts of planes.

Starter set marines & Astartes infantry set comes to what? 600-650 pts?

That's me at 2,100 pts or so off the core box and 1 of the most basic boxes you can get.

I also easily have another 900 pts of titans and knights, starter Solar Aux and AI imperial navy fighters as the beginnings of a 2nd army.

I also have my AT terrain ready to go.

I'm already most of the way there, I'm already invested and I expect lots of people are thinking the same.

At this point, to be able to field those 900 points of titans and knights you will have to field other 2700 points of either marines or auxilia, as you are limited to 25% in allies

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Do we have a list of points values of things?

I imagine I'd have a decent sized army given I have a giant pile of Imperial aircraft from AI and 2 Reavers and 2 Warhounds from AT.... but not sure that's going to be a "fun" army to play with, Epic for me has always been about the tanks, dreadnoughts, bikes, buggies, battlewagons, seems a shame to do an Epic army that doesn't feature those things heavily.

Here - https://pastebin.com/GJfHMNzY

With the amount of stuff im looking at getting Saturday...I reckon they will be in profit for LI by Sunday haha.

 Albertorius wrote:

Vorian wrote:
I think LI will be fine.

I'm sure there are plenty of people like me that will have 900 pts of titans and knights already.

A starter set of AI and a thunderhawk have given me 635 pts of planes.

Starter set marines & Astartes infantry set comes to what? 600-650 pts?

That's me at 2,100 pts or so off the core box and 1 of the most basic boxes you can get.

I also easily have another 900 pts of titans and knights, starter Solar Aux and AI imperial navy fighters as the beginnings of a 2nd army.

I also have my AT terrain ready to go.

I'm already most of the way there, I'm already invested and I expect lots of people are thinking the same.

At this point, to be able to field those 900 points of titans and knights you will have to field other 2700 points of either marines or auxilia, as you are limited to 25% in allies

30% allies here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/31/legions-imperialis-core-concepts-this-is-how-the-new-game-plays/

3,000 recommend * 0.3 = 900 pts.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'm going to predict it'll sell out initially as all the rabid weirdos buy up

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'll probably maybe buy a starter set

lol

Vorian wrote:
I'm sure there are plenty of people like me that will have 900 pts of titans and knights already.

A starter set of AI and a thunderhawk have given me 635 pts of planes.

I'm in the same position. Picked up a half price AI starter set years ago plus a Thunderhawk to use as a centrepiece with my AT terrain.

The LI starter is just over 1000pts of infantry and tanks. If you ignore or house-rule the Primary Army limits (my local club is gonna adjust it to max 30% titans, 70% anything else) a lot of people will already be able to put playable armies on a table quite quickly.

Yeah, I don't think this'll do too badly. I'm willing to bet a good chunk of current Titanicus players will get into LI as well. Add in the older players and pile of shame builders who'll just stash the boxes in shrink to gather dust, and it should be enought to keep things going.

I'm likely to buy a good pile on release myself...

 xttz wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'm going to predict it'll sell out initially as all the rabid weirdos buy up

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'll probably maybe buy a starter set

lol

I never said I wasn't a rabid weirdo I'm sitting here on my giant pile of Aeronautica Imperialis after all

Vorian wrote:

30% allies here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/31/legions-imperialis-core-concepts-this-is-how-the-new-game-plays/

3,000 recommend * 0.3 = 900 pts.

Ah, right. So you only will need 2100 points of either marines or auxilia instead ^^

 xttz wrote:
The LI starter is just over 1000pts of infantry and tanks.

Perhaps I miscalculated, but I only got ~800pts for all the infantry and tanks in the starter box?

Yes, like I said. 2,100 extra points, somewhere about 1,250 from AI I already have, Core box and Astartes infantry box

Leaves me about 800 or 900 off being able to field an army at recommended pts levels.

So, yeah, a long way down the road to full armies once I've bought a pretty basic amount of starter stuff.

Nice to see a painting presenter who isn't just a pair of floating hands again. I read the white dwarf battle report last night and it's definitely a warhammer game, 90% casualties and all. Still, I'm on board, will make for very cool big battle scenes even if the gameplay is a little rote

Well, when the primary armies in the game "shall know no fear" and sometimes have special rules like "stubborn", you end up with extremely high casualties because its a fight to the death and neither side will concede defeat until their objectives are accomplished.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 xttz wrote:
The LI starter is just over 1000pts of infantry and tanks.

Perhaps I miscalculated, but I only got ~800pts for all the infantry and tanks in the starter box?

I had:
Astartes Infantry/dreads ~250
Astartes tanks 255
SA Infantry/Sentinels ~250
SA Tanks 340

It can vary a bit as some units have different points values depending on how they're deployed.

For anyone curious:

If people don't buy because of the prospect of 3000pts being too much/too expensive, that particular initiative by whoever decided that in sales/marketing (because it does have the whiff of that) will have backfired.

Really need to see a game in action to find out how well it scales, and if 2000pts (and therefore a lower buy-in price) gives enough meat in a game.

 Pacific wrote:
If people don't buy because of the prospect of 3000pts being too much/too expensive, that particular initiative by whoever decided that in sales/marketing (because it does have the whiff of that) will have backfired.

Really need to see a game in action to find out how well it scales, and if 2000pts (and therefore a lower buy-in price) gives enough meat in a game.

Honestly, looking at images from the last White Dwarf Battle Report, 3,000pts pretty much fills the 4x5 board. I should think a 2,000pts game would be more than enough, especially for smaller board sizes.

Edit: I'd say that the LI box, an expansion box or two + any Titans you have would be enough to get you into some decent games

 xttz wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 xttz wrote:
The LI starter is just over 1000pts of infantry and tanks.

Perhaps I miscalculated, but I only got ~800pts for all the infantry and tanks in the starter box?

I had:
Astartes Infantry/dreads ~250
Astartes tanks 255
SA Infantry/Sentinels ~250
SA Tanks 340

It can vary a bit as some units have different points values depending on how they're deployed.

For anyone curious:

Spoiler:

So 330 from 2 thunderbolts, 2 marauders - 600 starter set SA and that's me at ~1,900 on the second army from a core box, AI and titans too.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Well, when the primary armies in the game "shall know no fear" and sometimes have special rules like "stubborn", you end up with extremely high casualties because its a fight to the death and neither side will concede defeat until their objectives are accomplished.

seems to be a thing in current game design, have armies die on the table and not run off due to any sort of realistic morale effect.

still its Warhammer, you know what you are getting as you walk through the door, my primary hope is that there is enough detail to allow smaller games to be interesting and that the special rules scale downwards as well as upwards, while still being streamlined enough larger games work nicely