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I feel like they could do well by “pairing up” similar detachment types from the Astartes and Auxilia in the release schedule. So put out Drop Pods and Termites on the same week. Or Spartans and Dracosans etc. that way neither side has to feel neglected but also they players doing allied armies get something too.

heres hoping the Mole & Hellbore come back

Guard armies have (traditionally) gone along the route of needing the 'big guns' (either artillery or tank companies) - when you couldn't do that in old Epic, you packed in as many heavy weapon infantrycompanies as you could.

So I think as xttz says it feels much more incomplete now - it needs bulking out with more or more of those things, and you would be a lunatic to try and fill out the army to 3k points right now with the stuff that is available - in about 6 months time half of that stuff is going to be sitting on a shelf, I think, as those artillery and more tank options come along.

we have half a game, if that, currently, its a good framework

pity they have gone the "no models = no rules" route unlike HH where we have the full books though


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 Mr_Rose wrote:
I feel like they could do well by “pairing up” similar detachment types from the Astartes and Auxilia in the release schedule. So put out Drop Pods and Termites on the same week. Or Spartans and Dracosans etc. that way neither side has to feel neglected but also they players doing allied armies get something too.

note sure it well be that much thought, do expect the releases to be "something for everyone!" though, even if its a bit WTF? when you look at the mix

we know bikes, speeders, tarantula, drop pods etc are coming, individual tank boxes too

 xttz wrote:
Something I've spotted while reading the rulebook is the repeated use of product box art. These images have a very specific style; landscape pictures in a similar colour palette showing two or more of a specific unit, with any other unit types obscured or otherwise out of focus. Several already available or confirmed box images are used, including Titans, Kratos, Rhinos, etc.

In addition to these there are several images in this style for units that have not been announced as plastic kits. One shows two warhounds armed only with the new weapon options. Presumbly this means they're getting their own box using this art, and the old warhound kit & weapons will be separate (and probably direct-only). Another shows Arvus lighters.

More interestingly we also have these guys:

Spoiler:

I have a hunch that at some point down the road they will release another box of predators and leman russes with more weapon options - so for nearest future it will be the boxes with current options from starter set (pred with lascannons or autocannons, russ with battle cannon or vanquisher), and then later another box with predator executioneer or maybe conversion cannon, and russ with demolisher and some other variant.

Agreed with that. All the tanks currently released or announced for the game are short variants/weapon options. We will almost certainly be seeing variant kits for them in the future. Likewise the contemptors, and even the infantry (only missile launchers or plasma guns, no heavy bolters, lascannons, autocannons, flamers, etc.). We're almost certainly going to see dupicate/variant kits to cover all of the above.

leopard wrote:
actually think SA could have an advantage once they start getting their artillery stuff. experimenting with colours on a few printed tanks (they are the right length, too narrow though, good for painting tests)

do think locally there will be a lot of hot marine on marine action, a few offering to trade their SA plastic for more marines

Also the melee will be good for SA generally. Those power axes are better than terminators and ogryns are just brutal and both can be added to detachments cheaply.

Funnily enough I expect marines to be the shootier army.

I suspect they'll release a vehicle upgrade kit - multiple weapon options for existing vehicles (Kratos Volkite, various Predator weapons and sicaran turrets)

leopard wrote:
heres hoping the Mole & Hellbore come back

Mole is now the Ordinatus Aktaeus:



I'd be surprised if the Ordinatus don't appear. Also, with you on the Hellbore!

Termites/Moles were a staple of the old game.

It would be fun to see them again.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Hmm.

So, transporting armies to a game.

This has never come up for me with Epic Scale, as we always played at my home. But now of course I’ll need something.

Given how inherently fragile the models are, does anyone have a suggested solution? I’m thinking magnetic trays are the best way forward, but not sure which case or bag would allow me to take full advantage of the lack of height to the models.

Sorry to resurrect this (but it's only 4 days).

Ikea has the Kvissle letter tray, which has four ferrous metal trays that slide out of the box itself. It works for minis with base magnets, and it would probably be MORE useful for LI than 40K (less models that are too tall for the trays). It also fits into one of the standard nylon army bags, though I do not remember which manufacturer.

Da Butcha wrote:

Ikea has the Kvissle letter tray, which has four ferrous metal trays that slide out of the box itself. It works for minis with base magnets, and it would probably be MORE useful for LI than 40K (less models that are too tall for the trays). It also fits into one of the standard nylon army bags, though I do not remember which manufacturer.

That looks like a great suggestion, thanks! It will fit almost perfectly in my existing KR bag, and is a bit more reasonably priced than the £100+ magnetic carry case I keep seeing recommended.

I just picked up some trays of 1” thick pluck foam. I pluck out two rows then leave one (repeat), it works great for the infantry and rhinos. I’ve also got some 1.5” trays for the tanks. Picked them up from Miniature Market during their Black Friday sale for $5 per tray.

I know there’s been heaps of Spehss Mahreenz scale discussions, but has anyone looked at how the Solar Auxilia compare to Vanguard’s models?

I have a bunch of Vanguard siege infantry that I’m thinking of proxying as Solar Auxilia, I figured they’d be way too small but then I noticed in my Baneblade set, the tank commander torsos look remarkably similar in scale to the siege infantry… but maybe it’s only the tank commanders?

here:
https://www.chaosbunker.de/de/2023/11/29/review-legions-imperialis-vanguard-miniatures-defeat-in-detail/

 kodos wrote:
here:
https://www.chaosbunker.de/de/2023/11/29/review-legions-imperialis-vanguard-miniatures-defeat-in-detail/

Thanks!

Unfortunately they look like midgets, haha. The tank commanders must be a bit smaller, because they look a lot closer to the siege infantry than what appears to be the case on chaosbunker.

I will tell you now, you will *not* be able to tell the difference between the middle and right-hand miniatures on the tabletop. If you don't mount them on the same base, it's basically the ability of your eyes to discern a 1mm - 1.5mm or so difference in height, from several feet away, when looking down at an angle (if that is the thing is concerning you!)

use a slightly thicker base, with circular cut outs, and as noted, once painted & based they will work perfectly, if its even a slight worry have whole units of the same type and then they are not close enough together to worry about

 xttz wrote:

Da Butcha wrote:

Ikea has the Kvissle letter tray, which has four ferrous metal trays that slide out of the box itself. It works for minis with base magnets, and it would probably be MORE useful for LI than 40K (less models that are too tall for the trays). It also fits into one of the standard nylon army bags, though I do not remember which manufacturer.

That looks like a great suggestion, thanks! It will fit almost perfectly in my existing KR bag, and is a bit more reasonably priced than the £100+ magnetic carry case I keep seeing recommended.

What KR bag is that, if I may ask? I'm struggling to find what would be a *good* good fit for that particular tray.

 Bolognesus wrote:

What KR bag is that, if I may ask? I'm struggling to find what would be a *good* good fit for that particular tray.

It's a Kaiser K2. The depth & width fit the internal size of the bag pretty closely, and there's a bit of space left over I can either put other stuff in or just pad out with foam.

 Pacific wrote:
I will tell you now, you will *not* be able to tell the difference between the middle and right-hand miniatures on the tabletop. If you don't mount them on the same base, it's basically the ability of your eyes to discern a 1mm - 1.5mm or so difference in height, from several feet away, when looking down at an angle (if that is the thing is concerning you!)

We'll see, if my SA ever arrive in the mail I'll compare them myself. I'm pretty sure I will be able to tell the difference, given I can tell the difference between my 8mm 3D printed models and the Vanguard models, but maybe I won't be able to. It's less a height thing and more a bulk thing. The reason the tank commanders surprised me is because I think they must have less bulk to fit comfortably in the hatch of the tank.

Maybe I just have an eye for such things, I can also tell the difference between an M5 bolt and an M6 bolt sitting on the other side of workbench

I have a question about order restrictions to broken detachments. Pg. 63 of the rules says that only Advance and Charge orders may be given to these units. The Word Bearers ability (pg. 168) says that only Advance and March orders may be given.

I suspect the Word Bearers' ability is a mistake, but honestly, it could be the other way around. Any word from GW on which of these is correct?

Rec’d Starter Box and both Card Packs. Have seen a number of folks have GW cancel/refund the cards. Checked through the Starter Box and found no damaged or missing components. Have another Starter to look through yet.

It's not so much discerning the difference between 1mm and 1.5mm as it is having two things in front of you and seeing that one is smaller than the other, which a toddler can do. It's alright if you don't mix them up but I've got LI and Vanguard miniatures in my collection and if you intermix them it is noticeable. I think it's really personal preference whether you care or not, a bit like whether you care about the undercuts

Yea if I can see the 5% difference between old and new HH marines I will see the 15% difference between old and new Epic.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Yea if I can see the 5% difference between old and new HH marines I will see the 15% difference between old and new Epic.

The Vanguard models are a touch bigger than old Epic, maybe half a millimetre bigger.

I haven't received any of the infantry yet, but I got some Baneblades and Kratos that arrived before the rest of the stuff I ordered and even on the sprue the tank commanders struck me as being very similar in scale to Vanguard models, and side by side they are quite close in head/arm/torso size, but I think the tank commanders are slightly reduced scale. I'll have to compare when the actual infantry arrives.

So is the only stuff left that has rules in the book but not models out the rapiers/aa/other dreadnoughts? Was the cyclops not also part of the solar aux side of that in the warcom preview? Will be weird to have models for them but not rules if they're in first expansion.


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callidusx3 wrote:
I have a question about order restrictions to broken detachments. Pg. 63 of the rules says that only Advance and Charge orders may be given to these units. The Word Bearers ability (pg. 168) says that only Advance and March orders may be given.

I suspect the Word Bearers' ability is a mistake, but honestly, it could be the other way around. Any word from GW on which of these is correct?

Hard to say, could be intentional or a mistake. I'm sure it will get answered either way given it's related to a specific legions rules. We already got the quick faq/errata of the warp missile so could see another faq/errata drop out of nowhere, maybe before the next book.

Keeping track of the break point of formations is going to be increasingly more challenging as points level of games go up. Even with the list builder app now listing the total models/breaking points for each formation, it still means having like sperate dead pools for each formation and checking like every time you scoop a model/models. It was the only sorta downer of the first game I've had. We didn't print any lists out so we didn't have the numbers read/dead piles ready, had to sorta improvise but between more sideboard for that and sideboard for all the units in structures like it was a bit annoying.

Leviathan, Deredeo and Rapier have been shown off

Did note that how the morale rules work is moderately interesting.

for a formation its all relative to the formation starting strength, this is fine, though as noted it does mean making a note of it somewhere.

for a detachment its reasonably simple, but you need to get your head around it, with it being all done activation by activation

e.g. unit of eight "things" is fired at by two enemy, the first one does three casualties, this is not half of the strength when targeted, so no morale check is required, leaving five models. the second then fires killing two more. thats not half the strength when the second unit targeted them, so again no morale check - even though the unit has taken more than half its initial strength in a turn

in effect units can take gradual casualties without caring, but will fall back from a single, heavier volley. e.g. here if the first enemy did four and the second none a morale check would be required, even though casualties are actually less.

though obviously doing half or more gradually gets easier.

its quite nice, and the only record keeping needed is that when you take a test and pass you need to record it as the unit will not have to test again that phase- if it fails its easy, it goes onto fall back orders

so you can force a check in first fire, another in engagement and a final one in advance fire.

this is quite an interesting system providing for a shock effect but the ability to stand a gradual grind

The record keeping for formations breaking is a real pain. It also fights for sideboard with units that aren't dead but just currently occupying buildings. I'm bias as an aux player, because already have to concern myself with leadership bubbles to be able to use all orders and by mid-end game my formations are all over the board.

Basically it means having separate dead pools/piles for each formation and the formations break point (number of dead models) for each formation. listed for each. It might be straight forward at like 1000pts with a couple formations but it will quickly fall apart without massive additional book keeping/markings/distinctions. I really never planned on having to distinguish which base of las rifles are in which formation ect, for me its the first rule i want to modify or axe, right up there with some enforcement on weapons loadouts in detachments. The stuff that will choke the game is like people with special snowflake malcador loadouts where every tank is different. There's such a vast gulf between units with like a nd b option like contemptor dreadnoughts las/kheres and units like malcadors with a bazillion possible loadouts.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Leviathan, Deredeo and Rapier have been shown off

I guess january at the earliest then?

Breakpoint bookkeeping will be a chore in larger games no doubt.

As for the weapon loadouts, maybe a houserule stating that beyond a certain points size limit, all models/stands within units must be identically armed, could help matters?