Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I wonder how long it is going to be until the release legion specific books, there are many many types of infantry not covered so far. I wonder how they will differentiate all the specific units, there aren't really a whole lot of stats to play with.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
I wonder how long it is going to be until the release legion specific books, there are many many types of infantry not covered so far. I wonder how they will differentiate all the specific units, there aren't really a whole lot of stats to play with.

I hope not, the legions are already quite unbalanced. My own legions was chosen more for ease of painting its with infiltrate being so broken its really really strong (raven guard).

I really think the focus should be on units, because by default with 30% allies every new unit can in theory be taken by anyone as allies. I think I'm more interested in the combined arms than special units, that strikes more of a 30k thing.

I just want artillery and transport for my aux more than anything.

Yeah, LI doesn't need expanded Legion rules. Like, we may eventually see little resin primarchs with their little resin retinues, but those are going to be a tiny thing on the table that could be potentially blown away by a well placed volcano cannon shot, so why bother?

I really hope we don't see them focus on specific Legions with unique books like they do for 40K/HH. I feel like yes they can go down that pathway, but when you consider how many of the model differences would just be on the troops and the paint colour, that's a lot of "tiny" differences to spot.

The larger tanks, vehicles and titans stand out way more so and they are pretty generic across most legions. Enough that whilst we might see a few legion specific releases, I don't wnat to see them lean into it.


Then again that's also because I'd like to see them flesh out something OTHER than Marines in this game. If they go down the legions pathway then that means a LOT of attention on Marines alone. At the very least if they don't go that pathway then other factions can rise up in the design space.

I honestly don't want all the added fluff layer rules of AT, that stuff just weighs the game down. I' actually happy i don't have to care what legio my titan is painted as in LI, I'm happy there's not a whole other layer of titan legion rules to have to contend with and obsess over.

Would much rather see them add in other factions. Mechanicum, Custodes, Daemons of the Ruinstorm, even Imperial Militia could be added in as different factions with lots of different strategy and weapons added in for flair.

drbored wrote:
Would much rather see them add in other factions. Mechanicum, Custodes, Daemons of the Ruinstorm, even Imperial Militia could be added in as different factions with lots of different strategy and weapons added in for flair.

I feel like any more factions I'd prefer as allied formations than stand alone factions. The internal balance is already sorta not great for either faction.

Well I think it just needs the basic roster padding out and a fairly full complement of the basics like Land Raiders, jet bikes, artillery for the Solars - so hopefully all stuff that is included in Great Slaughter.

Right now it just feels like a beta version of the game, which is fine for some fun smaller point games to get used to the mechanics, but you can't fully commit and get your teeth into it.

 Pacific wrote:
Well I think it just needs the basic roster padding out and a fairly full complement of the basics like Land Raiders, jet bikes, artillery for the Solars - so hopefully all stuff that is included in Great Slaughter.

Right now it just feels like a beta version of the game, which is fine for some fun smaller point games to get used to the mechanics, but you can't fully commit and get your teeth into it.

Well not many players can buy everything at once.

I mean if GW had released all in wave 1 AND everything we know coming still could YOU buy every kit at least one, preferably multiples?

If not then you are the kind of customer why GW spreads releases They want you to buy everything and everything they release should be bought when it's released(the crunch time of releases being when they are released).

I ordered some civitas imperialis ruins on pre order. They've finally dispatched from element games in the UK. I've just checked their site and they have 10+ available to order for dispatch next week. Just thought I'd mention it in case anybody wanted some. Hopefully other shops will also be getting stock now too.

 Pacific wrote:
Well I think it just needs the basic roster padding out and a fairly full complement of the basics like Land Raiders, jet bikes, artillery for the Solars - so hopefully all stuff that is included in Great Slaughter.

Right now it just feels like a beta version of the game, which is fine for some fun smaller point games to get used to the mechanics, but you can't fully commit and get your teeth into it.

It need to also contend with the internal stuff before piling on too much. Without even getting into the specifics of new factions, if the new factions have too many auto take a and b option detachments it won't help things.

tneva82 wrote:
Well not many players can buy everything at once.

But surely they could have proxied stuff to test, had it been included in the core lists, right?

 Albertorius wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Well not many players can buy everything at once.

But surely they could have proxied stuff to test, had it been included in the core lists, right?

It doesn't feel like much was tested too heavily, the mandate seems to be from a design ethos "make stuff die easy, get them to buy a lot" and that's prefectly fair for a mass battle game where they're trying to sell it as 3000pts. The problem is it makes low to mid level point games possibly feel very off.

The missions scream "lets not complicate things, get your stuff on the board and get fighting".

The total control for deep strike and out flank is odd, but odder still is the total control for infiltrate.

I guess I'm saying whole areas appear to be sorta paved over for speed. And that's not entirely bad either. But people do notice deep strike is way too strong as is, and that's not likely to get better with drop pods, seeing as just about anything can be spammed in this game for better or worse.

The ultimate balancer is simply that anything you want to field even if its not in your main faction is 30% allie slot away, so that actually does do a bit for balance. If you play marines and are tired of ogryns kicking your but, take some as allies. Bombers always a pain, take some of those. It's like 30k in that respect. Which does help.

The problem is, the gap between plastic armies with limiations purely from availablility (its been popular and hard to find on shelvse) but peopel printing really can printer go brrrr 50 vanquishers of the want. We'll soon see the extremes tested and just from theory hammering on list builders, the game has no limits if you don't limit the amount of formations. Even then its very very open as even 1 formation could be as little 70pts or as much as over 3k, some stuff may need to be considered like highlander style limits of no more than 3 detachments of any one unit type or limiting max unit sizes ect.

Infiltrate needs a massive fix or a scenario that limits it only in that context.

If GW included all the rules in the core set and released all the models at once (assuming they would even be able to do that) it would be too much for people to buy everything at the same time and since most sales are happening at release they would lose sales.
If GW included all the rules but didn't release all the models, people would just find other ways to get those models, either through 3D printing or proxies and while some might buy the official kits when they release, many would just stay with their solution which would also mean lost sales.
So the only way to get the most sales is staggering both models and their rules, its as easy as that.
Of course there are for sure also other reasons why what they are doing is bad or makes sense but even with just this explanation it makes complete sense why things are happening the way they are

It’s also not far off how 2nd Ed went.

Big Boxed Set, with some rules for Eldar, Marines and Orks.

Then came the army rules across boxes like Armies of the Imperium, Ork & Squat Warlords etc. Each of those had model releases associated.

But we also got WD rules additions, and matching models. For instance Flyers first came in WD, as did the Revenant Titans for sure.

It’s the same concept as 40K and AoS Codexes/Battle Tomes, just carried out differently. A way to stagger releases, and drive new sales into the future.

I can see why it annoys folk though, and I’m not saying “so STFU”. But there is a logic to it all.

 Matrindur wrote:
If GW included all the rules in the core set and released all the models at once (assuming they would even be able to do that) it would be too much for people to buy everything at the same time and since most sales are happening at release they would lose sales.
If GW included all the rules but didn't release all the models, people would just find other ways to get those models, either through 3D printing or proxies and while some might buy the official kits when they release, many would just stay with their solution which would also mean lost sales.
So the only way to get the most sales is staggering both models and their rules, its as easy as that.
Of course there are for sure also other reasons why what they are doing is bad or makes sense but even with just this explanation it makes complete sense why things are happening the way they are

I agree on the first point that most had limited funds at the time of release so even if gw had a full release people can only buy so much, on the second point however 3d printing hasn't made a dent in demand and supply has been a major issue, furthermore i've seen photos with a 100 3d printed tanks and there's still plastic tanks and thunderhawks and planes in the picture as well and some of these people are only printing precisely because they can only get so many plastic boxes.

It's also fair to say people are already printing models that don't have rules either way because between the warcom articles that preceded the delayed release and the book artwork that has a certain signature style that appear to demarcate units box art, we can fairly assume what is coming and will get rules in the great slaughter or the next book.

Land raiders/spartans/drop pods/bikes/speeders/jetbikes/dracosan/basilisk/medusas possibly terrax and autocannon/plasma turret russes as well. These are also things some epic players may already have models/files of. And this world is so crazy many will still buy new plastics because they're cool.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s also not far off how 2nd Ed went.

Big Boxed Set, with some rules for Eldar, Marines and Orks.

Then came the army rules across boxes like Armies of the Imperium, Ork & Squat Warlords etc. Each of those had model releases associated.

But we also got WD rules additions, and matching models. For instance Flyers first came in WD, as did the Revenant Titans for sure.

It’s the same concept as 40K and AoS Codexes/Battle Tomes, just carried out differently. A way to stagger releases, and drive new sales into the future.

I can see why it annoys folk though, and I’m not saying “so STFU”. But there is a logic to it all.

Thing is, Epic 40k had all armies in the core, from the get go. And E:A had full, complete list of the armies it included.

I'm not saying they should have included all the armies, but I'd rather have had full lists of what they decided to include. That, or specify that the core lists are only "get you by" ones.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
It’s also not far off how 2nd Ed went.

Big Boxed Set, with some rules for Eldar, Marines and Orks.

Then came the army rules across boxes like Armies of the Imperium, Ork & Squat Warlords etc. Each of those had model releases associated.

But we also got WD rules additions, and matching models. For instance Flyers first came in WD, as did the Revenant Titans for sure.

It’s the same concept as 40K and AoS Codexes/Battle Tomes, just carried out differently. A way to stagger releases, and drive new sales into the future.

I can see why it annoys folk though, and I’m not saying “so STFU”. But there is a logic to it all.

Releasing stuff in white dwarf is a double edged sword, it undoubtedly is a welcome thing for those who pick it up or have a subscription, but for some games it really can be a bit annoying, for titanicus there was some exclusive stratagem card . That legions battle report I also fear did some damage in that it scared some prospective players off by the sheer scale of it but also making it seem like the games baseline starting point.

HH and ToW had no issues releasing complete rules far, far ahead of models tho.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
HH and ToW had no issues releasing complete rules far, far ahead of models tho.

Sort of?

There's existing old world sculpts, even if not for sale, which give them some IP protection for the units in question. For HH 2.0 specifically - same again, they're converting existing minis over largely so there's not much to have to worry about. The HH 1.0 releases were a bit riskier but even then the older marks of marine armour existed in some format, the various gear was represented in some format they could protect and largely I aren't sure they cared given it was largely (in my opinion) a game for "expert hobbyists with a love of warhammer and lots of cash" who likely wanted official stuff for everything anyway.

Dudeface wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
HH and ToW had no issues releasing complete rules far, far ahead of models tho.

Sort of?

There's existing old world sculpts, even if not for sale, which give them some IP protection for the units in question. For HH 2.0 specifically - same again, they're converting existing minis over largely so there's not much to have to worry about. The HH 1.0 releases were a bit riskier but even then the older marks of marine armour existed in some format, the various gear was represented in some format they could protect and largely I aren't sure they cared given it was largely (in my opinion) a game for "expert hobbyists with a love of warhammer and lots of cash" who likely wanted official stuff for everything anyway.

If that's a justification, so are these:






Unless you mean "in production"... and even then a big number of things in the big HH 2 books were (and are) not in production.

As for ToW... well. The whole point o a lot of it is getting stuff back into production, so... but the stats will be there from the start too.

 Albertorius wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
HH and ToW had no issues releasing complete rules far, far ahead of models tho.

Sort of?

There's existing old world sculpts, even if not for sale, which give them some IP protection for the units in question. For HH 2.0 specifically - same again, they're converting existing minis over largely so there's not much to have to worry about. The HH 1.0 releases were a bit riskier but even then the older marks of marine armour existed in some format, the various gear was represented in some format they could protect and largely I aren't sure they cared given it was largely (in my opinion) a game for "expert hobbyists with a love of warhammer and lots of cash" who likely wanted official stuff for everything anyway.

If that's a justification, so are these:






Unless you mean "in production"... and even then a big number of things in the big HH 2 books were (and are) not in production.

As for ToW... well. The whole point o a lot of it is getting stuff back into production, so... but the stats will be there from the start too.

I'd agree, unsure if it relates to the scale?

Mostly I think they're intentionally going with different sales models for different games, for whatever reason. LI got the short end of the stick, along with early Necromunda, on the extreme end of the mandatory DLC treadmill axis, with HH and ToW sitting comfy on the other far end with just the core rulebook and a faction book giving you the full game experience for probably several years, as long as you can scrounge up the models on your own.

 Andrew1975 wrote:
I wonder how long it is going to be until the release legion specific books...

Based on the other "specialist" games, I don't think they will be releasing these. LI will likely get a Loyalist book and a Traitor book eventually, but not soon. I expect them to continue the pattern of campaign books that introduce more and more units over time and eventually a new, consolidated main rulebook.

Dudeface wrote:I'd agree, unsure if it relates to the scale?

I honestly don't think that's the case.

lord_blackfang wrote:Mostly I think they're intentionally going with different sales models for different games, for whatever reason. LI got the short end of the stick, along with early Necromunda, on the extreme end of the mandatory DLC treadmill axis, with HH and ToW sitting comfy on the other far end with just the core rulebook and a faction book giving you the full game experience for probably several years, as long as you can scrounge up the models on your own.

This though... yeah >_>. It's just my luck that the GW games I'm most interested in and have the fondest memories with are the ones that are getting the full DLC train.

Quick info for anyone interested, the Civitas Administratum Sector that showed "Sold out online" for a long time now, which would normally mean its gone and won't come back, is back to just "Temporarily out of stock". So while we don't know what happened it shouldn't be permanently out of stock anymore and will be back in stock in the future.
And while the Civitas Ruins still show up as "Sold out online" its pretty likely they too will switch to temporarily out of stock and be back in stock in the future which should be good news for anyone who didn't manage to get one the first time

Has anyone built a Civitas Administratum Sector? I'm tempted to get one, but I don't have a good gauge for how much it builds. Is it as much as you'd want to fill a 5x4 table? Or would you go for 2 sets?

Maybe one day I'll get around to printing the Cy-Tilez set instead of GW's set, but as cool as they look and how cheap they are versus GW terrain, they are time consuming to print and need the printer super well dialled in (which mine isn't!).

Plastic Arvus Lighters:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/11/carry-troops-gracefully-through-the-sky-with-arvus-lighter-squadrons-for-legions-imperialis/

I don't know whether to be happy or sad, I never finished painting my resin ones

The resin ones were a bit crap though, mine had 3D printer lines on them and supports that were clearly 3D printer supports rather than typical resin casting vents.

Guess I'll grab a box, always wanted more for Aeronautica anyway and was never willing to pay resin prices to get a lot of them.

Was gonna post something snarky about “then why did you release in resin just a wee while ago”.

But whilst I can’t rule out an article was deleted, seems I’m misremembering the 28mm scale one.