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They could just print "Beta" Detachment Rules in the White Dwarf together with the release of some Units...

RazorEdge wrote:
They could just print "Beta" Detachment Rules in the White Dwarf together with the release of some Units...

Or do what Battlefront does and include rules (cards) for models and formations in each product box.

With regard to the delay?

I don’t mean to throw shade at the poster, but we have but a single, unsubstantiated, unverifiable, claim in that regard. Of course I’ve no reason to doubt it was shared in good faith.

Doesn’t mean it’s not true, but does mean that for now we shouldn’t put much weight on it. And for now, I have to doubt the claim.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
With regard to the delay?

I don’t mean to throw shade at the poster, but we have but a single, unsubstantiated, unverifiable, claim in that regard. Of course I’ve no reason to doubt it was shared in good faith.

Doesn’t mean it’s not true, but does mean that for now we shouldn’t put much weight on it. And for now, I have to doubt the claim.

The only question is what the delayed date will be, we know it's delayed because it was supposed to be "available to pre-order later this month" but we have now passed the last preorder window for this month, and now we have WarCom saying "The Great Slaughter will also be out a little later this year."

"a little later this year" when you're only in January usually means "not soon". But given we haven't even got to "sooner than you think" yet, goodness knows what they mean by "a little later this year".

SamusDrake wrote:


And finally there are 3rd party alternatives, which only leaves the matter of purchasing either the starter set or core rule book. Actually, just looking on Vanguard there's alternative resin models for both the Warhound and Direwolf...worth a butchers.

Alternatives are options for the stuff still missing from wave 1.5? (deredeos, leviathans, rapiers, aa) not to mention all the aeronautica planes that have yet to "come back". Still feels like a loooong feb waiting for some pretty key stuff like artillery, even if a suitable stand in for rapiers can be used while waiting. If stuff like the civitas ruins are designed in uk but made in china, really hoping the red sea stuff dies down.


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AllSeeingSkink wrote:


The only question is what the delayed date will be, we know it's delayed because it was supposed to be "available to pre-order later this month" but we have now passed the last preorder window for this month, and now we have WarCom saying "The Great Slaughter will also be out a little later this year."

"a little later this year" when you're only in January usually means "not soon". But given we haven't even got to "sooner than you think" yet, goodness knows what they mean by "a little later this year".

AFAIK currently march 2nd is the new date, not saying that date won't slip if indeed part of the reason for delays prove to be outside GW's control (red sea shipping).

Thing is, even if no one knows the cause of the delay, like with last releases delay, those sent copies for early for review had to sit on those for months given the re-packaging delay with the starter.

It's possible that those may already be in hand in some cases or those awaiting review copies are aware when they will be receiving them. If the plan indeed was to have pre-orders up this month before whatever the delay is occurred, its a fair assumption that may not have entirely delayed review copies, perhaps just some of the miniatures or part of what was supposed to be sent out. When it comes to the rulebook, we know they printed in the uk, at least initially. It's possible great slaughter is all uk printed or they did an initial run in country and the rest in china.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
With regard to the delay?

I don’t mean to throw shade at the poster, but we have but a single, unsubstantiated, unverifiable, claim in that regard. Of course I’ve no reason to doubt it was shared in good faith.

Doesn’t mean it’s not true, but does mean that for now we shouldn’t put much weight on it. And for now, I have to doubt the claim.

Well. ONLY claim that is to be doubted is date on march.

Of course that means it could easily be april, may, june, july...

But it is 100% official release was delayed. We knew it was delayed on last SUNDAY...Because if it wasn't delayed they would have announced that on sunday. GW flat out said preorder in january and guess what? Last preorders of january are today. And on last sunday we knew they would not be here.

So last sunday it was already official there was delay. Only claim we don't know for fact is 2.3 for new day.

So since you doubt the date why you think 2.3 is false? It doesn't even sound like week or two extra delay because wording was "later this year". You expecting even later than 2nd march?

An obvious problem with conditioning your customer base on hardcore FOMO, if you stumble a release people aren't inclined to wait around for it, they just skip to the next thing.

Except legions is stock item so there's no MO.

Limited edition book is FOMO. Stock item isn't.

tneva82 wrote:
Except legions is stock item so there's no MO.

Limited edition book is FOMO. Stock item isn't.

FOMO absolutely also works on general stock items when there's a shortage, and when people are trained that they must have every new shiny on day 1, but the shiny is late, they won't buy it on day 30, because they'll be busy buying the shiny that's new that day.

So the only solution is no more shinies?

I think the system is working as intended, you buy the new shiny, you put most of it on the pile without even removing the wrap, next week you buy the next shiny. GW obviously thinks that the sales they lose because of underprinting each product are more than compensated by training people to never sleep on a new item.

 Overread wrote:
So the only solution is no more shinies?

no more FOMO or relying on people impulse buying but never using it
for now everything works as GW wants it, people buy it, are interested for a while and drop it to buy something else

to poor ones are just those who bought it to actually play with it, something GW does not really care

I mean is that a GW masterplan or just how geeks are in general. I'm fairly sure people build "piles of shame" with other model brands too and have been doing so since for decades.


Annnnnnnnnnnd do it in lots of other hobbies too.

Also I'm fairly sure the "I've got a room of boxes of unbuilt" are the exceptions to the norm - but higher represented online population group.




Don't get me wrong I hate lack of product too and I'm sitting here waiting for Forces of Fantasy to restock at Wayland (Element Games is showing restocks in early Feb which might be the 2nd big wave)

GW most certainly use FOMO, but when you hit the point of calling every product FOMO I think that's more a personal impression than a GW marketing strategy.

yes and no
buying more that you ever going to use and hoping between systems is common
be it wargaming, boardgames or scale models

yet so far GW is the only company that actively use that to sell products and adjusted their releases to remove the "do you really need it" part of the purchase for the gamers as well
like making sure no one knows the rules before it went on pre-orders and because it will sell out you cannot wait until you get the rules to decide

also the trend to a pile of shame as something positive that you want to grow instead a negative backlog that should make you stop buying is new and started from the GW communities

even doing a collection were you grow an army for display over years has changed to buy everything at once because you don't know how long it will be available or if it will ever be available after pre-order

add in that GW does not use the pre-order to determine the demand of something and have the necessary items ready for release, but as marketing toll of "buy now or never"

combine this with a given yearly price increase that even if you are not an impulse buyer and just want the things you need to play, you have the reason to buy now because will pay more later

all those things happen in general, all of those combined only in "the" (warhammer) hobby

Well, my FLGS manager would tell you exactly when he starts getting bombarded by calls and emails: the moment word comes out about allocation shortages. Until then, most people are able to "wait and see" but a soon as there's not enough to go around, everybody wants one. And he has also learned the hard way to just... not order any extras beyond what people put their names down for, because the week after, nobody cares again.

 kodos wrote:

add in that GW does not use the pre-order to determine the demand of something and have the necessary items ready for release, but as marketing toll of "buy now or never"

Since it's not now or never for anything but for limited editions I prefer that rather than pay now, wait for months for release(they can't produce and ship stuff in week so no kidding preorder isn't mark of production start).

And limited edition is printed in set number anyway(hence limited) so longer preorder would just mean longer for buyers to get their items.

For non limited it's never now or never.

unless GW does not tell if it is limited or not
and/or it take years until it is available again

how many items are there that are sold out for a long time now with no one knowing when they are coming back or if they are axed with next edition

or hero models that are sold in box bundles and sometime are never released at all and sometimes shortly after and GW never telling what will be the case

add in a 3 year cycle of the main game and waiting a year until it is back in stock can mean a single game played until it is phased out again if you wait

and this is not done by accident

GW always tell if it's limited edition.

And yes in new editions something might get axed. Too bad. Doesn't mean you can't buy it before new edition comes though.

If it was now or never...How did I just buy solar auxilia infantry? Preorder was waaaaay before...

How did I buy arachnid spiders? Preorder was literally decades ago...

Now or never...Just one big lie. Preorder was decades ago and I just 2 months ago bought. So much for now or never Bwahahaha. According to you nobody should have been able to buy that for decades. And I shouldn't have been able to buy that solar auxilia infantry either. Never mind hive tyrant I bought on fall. Or quite a lot of stuff.

People should stop spreading lies.

Apart from limited editions(duh) I haven't actually missed anything I have wanted even if I didn't get them on preorder.

So much for now or never.

I did not write limited edition but limited and this is a difference
a limited edition run with a regular release, or a limited offer that is the regular release makes the big difference here

and GW releases models in limited amounts without telling if this is actually limited or will return later (aka all the exclusive to bundle boxes heroes)

just that you get always everything you wanted does not mean a lot (I also always got everything I wanted and I never buy anything from GW on pre-order)

 kodos wrote:
GW releases models in limited amounts without telling if this is actually limited or will return later (aka all the exclusive to bundle boxes heroes)

[citation needed]

scroll back the topic you reply to for the discussion if the LI models from the box will see a stand alone release or not

if GW would always be clear about that, we would not have had that discussion

if this is not enough try to find the stand alone release of the Winged Tyranid Prime or were GW writes that this is exclusive to a box and will never get a stand alone release

 kodos wrote:
scroll back the topic you reply to for the discussion if the LI models from the box will see a stand alone release or not

if GW would always be clear about that, we would not have had that discussion

if this is not enough try to find the stand alone release of the Winged Tyranid Prime or were GW writes that this is exclusive to a box and will never get a stand alone release

Nope, that's shifting goalposts. Here's your own quote again:

 kodos wrote:
GW releases models in limited amounts without telling if this is actually limited or will return later (aka all the exclusive to bundle boxes heroes)

The LI core set is a standard stock item (explicitly confirmed as such prior to release). Not to mention it released alongside some of the contents being sold separately, implying that the rest would eventually follow. No reasonable person could conclude that models like the Leman Russ or Predator would only ever be available from the November 2023 preorder, and then never again.

When Leviathan was announced it was made clear that the models inside would be made available again later. The Tyranid Prime was released via several standard stock boxed sets before eventually being sold separately. At no point was that model implied to be limited with no future availibility.

You mention "exclusive to bundle boxes heroes", but those announcement articles also consistently use phrases like "first available here" that confirm a later release for the new kit.

Now could GW communicate some of this information more clearly? Absolutely. Some of the details are only posted via social media replies, and there's an especially big gap with them explaining when many things will be available. But your underlying implication was that GW misleads customers into unecessary purchases by being dishonest about products being time-limited. That's a claim that still requires evidence.

Honestly the only mess for "its limited" that has happened in recent years that I can think of is Cursed City and its very clear that something (or several somethings) went wrong with that.

That's the only "this will be mainline for a few years" to "oh no wait we won't restock it ever" release GW have done. Even then they brought the core set back into production eventually (though the expansions were messed up entirely in my view).


So yeah that's the only real time they've mucked up on that front.

Otherwise I agree GW are pretty clear what's limited and what isn't when it comes to models.
They also appear to have sped up getting box-set first release models into their own sets in general.


Also we've seen those duel army packs steadily become a retired concept in favour of single faction packs. Which I suspect is GW reacting to the fact that people were happy for discount boxed sets; but didn't like having to trade off half of them all the time.

I'm not sure what any of this discussion has to do with Legions Imperialis, everything is a standard stock item so far, we've not had anything limited.

Part of it may be precedent set by the 40K Special Starters.

Both Indomitus and Leviathan were limited run. Not necessarily Limited Edition in the common sense thanks to MTO, but a “these sets are special and will not be around forever”. And they’re replaced with the standard, permanent starter sets of differing price and contents.

When Age of Darkness dropped, whilst pricey it was such a good discount it was widely assumed it too was a splash release, with permanent Starters to Follow. We of course now know that wasn’t the case.

But on the other hand? Adeptus Titanicus first had the Grandmaster Set, which was super limited. And a new starter set was a longer time coming.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'm not sure what any of this discussion has to do with Legions Imperialis, everything is a standard stock item so far, we've not had anything limited.

Stock has been rather limited, but point taken. If it appears on shelves locally its mostly scooped up pretty quick still.

The big civitas box may be limited edition, or it's the first candidate to feel that way. People have been able to get the ruins here and there but those initial big civitas boxes don't seem to be coming back.

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Part of it may be precedent set by the 40K Special Starters.

Both Indomitus and Leviathan were limited run. Not necessarily Limited Edition in the common sense thanks to MTO, but a “these sets are special and will not be around forever”. And they’re replaced with the standard, permanent starter sets of differing price and contents.

When Age of Darkness dropped, whilst pricey it was such a good discount it was widely assumed it too was a splash release, with permanent Starters to Follow. We of course now know that wasn’t the case.

But on the other hand? Adeptus Titanicus first had the Grandmaster Set, which was super limited. And a new starter set was a longer time coming.

Didn't they say before release that it wasn't limited?

In any case, usually the limited starter sets are extremely good value... the LI starter set is one of the worst value starters.


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 Crablezworth wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
I'm not sure what any of this discussion has to do with Legions Imperialis, everything is a standard stock item so far, we've not had anything limited.

Stock has been rather limited, but point taken. If it appears on shelves locally its mostly scooped up pretty quick still.

The big civitas box may be limited edition, or it's the first candidate to feel that way. People have been able to get the ruins here and there but those initial big civitas boxes don't seem to be coming back.

The limited stock in this case feels at least partly like a screw up related to the delay. Things restocked quite quickly which maybe suggests stock was manufactured but didn't reach distribution centres in time.

It looks like the starter sets are back in stock in the UK, not even sure if they went out of stock in the US but they are in stock now, a lot of the individual kits seemed to have very low stock levels initially then got a 2nd wave and some of them are out of stock again.

But yeah, maybe that terrain is limited, not sure if we know yet?

I have said in the past that GW are in desirable position having everything sell out all the time, it's a wonderful problem to have... BUT, sometimes it really does feel like they're throwing sales out the window.

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 gorgon wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
The release delays and stock shortages are going to strangle LI in its infancy.

Eh, I dunno. I think most people interested in the game will still be so a couple months from now, and those that aren't...still won't and probably wouldn't be even with more stock on the shelves. It feels to me like this game has a very targeted/niche/inelastic audience even for GW. Just my own impression based on zero real data.

And as an AT player, I think LI players should expect some longer gaps with support. AT did it better for getting its main Titans all released within a couple months of launch...but it still was a couple months, during which time people were using older models for Reavers and Warhounds. And then it was maybe an every 6 months schedule? At least before things got even slower. They talked about or hinted at a number of things for AT that still haven't seen the light of day. So those other factions for the game might be a pretty good wait if they even happen.

The niche gamers will probably continue to buy it (the same people probably that have been playing Epic for the past 20 or so years in spite of GW not supporting it) assuming they aren't just 3D printing or buying from 3rd parties still

The worry is more whether it has the ability to work its way into the hearts of a broader audience and become something you see regularly played down at the local club/store versus some guy's basement that you need to be part of an elite group to even know it exists.

After all, the enthusiasts DID buy Aeronautica, but it wasn't enough to keep GW supporting it.

Grandmaster Edition was limited, and not even listed as a release in White Dwarf August 2018 like other limited Edition Stuff of that TIme.

It got a reprint in December 2018 because the high demand for that Box.

 Crablezworth wrote:


Alternatives are options for the stuff still missing from wave 1.5? (deredeos, leviathans, rapiers, aa) not to mention all the aeronautica planes that have yet to "come back". Still feels like a loooong feb waiting for some pretty key stuff like artillery, even if a suitable stand in for rapiers can be used while waiting. If stuff like the civitas ruins are designed in uk but made in china, really hoping the red sea stuff dies down.

I've not been exhaustive in my comparing of the units in the core book, to what Vanguard offers, but there isn't anything stopping one from getting a copy of the core book and filling out a solid Legions army.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if that is why GW are keeping the core book direct-only( full price, with no discount ), as many players will probably already have a 3rd party collection ready to roll, and the only money they'll see from them is from the core book and supplements.

SamusDrake wrote:

 Crablezworth wrote:


Alternatives are options for the stuff still missing from wave 1.5? (deredeos, leviathans, rapiers, aa) not to mention all the aeronautica planes that have yet to "come back". Still feels like a loooong feb waiting for some pretty key stuff like artillery, even if a suitable stand in for rapiers can be used while waiting. If stuff like the civitas ruins are designed in uk but made in china, really hoping the red sea stuff dies down.

I've not been exhaustive in my comparing of the units in the core book, to what Vanguard offers, but there isn't anything stopping one from getting a copy of the core book and filling out a solid Legions army.

Actually I wouldn't be surprised if that is why GW are keeping the core book direct-only( full price, with no discount ), as many players will probably already have a 3rd party collection ready to roll, and the only money they'll see from them is from the core book and supplements.

I'm not sure what direct-only would have to do with that.

And remember that the core book is also available as an e-book at over a third less than what the physical book costs.