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So either one is a dud (it can happen), or the printing press made two runs of different qualities (quite unlikely), or GW sent print orders to multiple printing presses, probably due to time constraints, I would guess.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Okay, even though I own some AT stuff I've never actually played it or got into the rules, I glanced through the rulebook and didn't really like the rules.

AT certainly wasn't the game I was hoping for, nor expecting it to be, but having accepted it for what it really is - a titan combat simulator - there is a lot of comical fun to be enjoyed. It at least deserves a shot, I'll give it that.

I think sticking with Net-Epic would be a good idea, as Legions has only just been released and suffering serious problems with balance. As much as I'm of the opinion that the core book has enough options to build an army, the quality of the rules is another matter altogether and there will be tantrums at the tournament tables. And that's another reason to recommend Titanicus; it was tournament-ready from the start.

tneva82 wrote:

 1984Phantom wrote:

tneva82 wrote:
Rulebook was originally from china.

Mine says "printed in the uk"

Yes. Reread what I wrote. Note how I said originally. Remember the delay from original launch day? That was due to gw reprinting rulebook. We have seen cover of original rulebook and apart from front looking different it had printed in china.

Doing another print run at china would have taken longer(what with boats being slow) or cost lot more via air transport so gw went for uk for new print run. Presumably they prefered shorter delay at expense of cost.

Thanks for the clear explanation, I tought specialist games books came from the Uk and big games did not. In my ignorance - it's my fault, I read this topic just sometimes and I've lost some important facts - I'm lucky to get an Uk print that is not going to destroy itself

 Overread wrote:
My understanding is that so much of the printing market is in China/Overseas that the UK really doesn't have the infrastructure/skillset any more. At least outside of likely luxury/limited production type deals that are likely way more expensive than GW wants to spend on for their style of product.


I seem to recall that and sourcing raw materials are a reason GW has never bought their own printing press machinery to bring that in house

UK printers are just as capable - but it's cheaper to do it in China or eastern Europe, even with the extra transport.

Can we please this topic for legion and not for printers and there place to be.

 skeleton wrote:
Can we please this topic for legion and not for printers and there place to be.

The delay is very likely related.

The rumoured new date was for 2nd of march but did rumour say preorder or release?

If release next week it would be announced for preorder.

Hoping for that. I want my drop pods and jetbikes and friend wants some transports for his solar auxilia

I just want Predators and Leman Russ seperate without a big Box and another Rulebook...

We can talk about the delay of The Great Slaughter being because of printers in China or whatever but the fact is that we are still waiting for a massive chunk of the stuff in the core rule book to either be released, rereleased in the new packaging, or to be released outside of the main box. This entire release so far has been an unmitigated disaster from the word go and there seems to be little evidence that it is going to change anytime soon.

Considering Element Games are listing a restock of a lot of Old World stuff next weekend, I think that's also contributed to the slowdown which GW perhaps didn't fully plan on. I suspect that's also why this coming weekend we are only seeing books and one model and nothing else being released.

tneva82 wrote:
The rumoured new date was for 2nd of march but did rumour say preorder or release?

If release next week it would be announced for preorder.

Hoping for that. I want my drop pods and jetbikes and friend wants some transports for his solar auxilia

Rumour was release on the 2nd so preorder announcement next week

At least it ticks over to a new payday for me.

And painting wise, I should have the back broken of my 28mm Dark Angels to boot.

ccnick22 wrote:
We can talk about the delay of The Great Slaughter being because of printers in China or whatever but the fact is that we are still waiting for a massive chunk of the stuff in the core rule book to either be released, rereleased in the new packaging, or to be released outside of the main box. This entire release so far has been an unmitigated disaster from the word go and there seems to be little evidence that it is going to change anytime soon.

I agree with the part about the missing stuff from the core book. In particular, the fact that the workhorse combat tanks are only available in the very expensive starter is a big problem. It's hard to tell potential players to jump into the game when even the battle tanks are very limited in availability.

On the other hand, I expect that we'll start seeing more figures rapidly being released. And as they get released, the complaints about this particular issue will vanish.

Eumerin wrote:

ccnick22 wrote:
We can talk about the delay of The Great Slaughter being because of printers in China or whatever but the fact is that we are still waiting for a massive chunk of the stuff in the core rule book to either be released, rereleased in the new packaging, or to be released outside of the main box. This entire release so far has been an unmitigated disaster from the word go and there seems to be little evidence that it is going to change anytime soon.

I agree with the part about the missing stuff from the core book. In particular, the fact that the workhorse combat tanks are only available in the very expensive starter is a big problem. It's hard to tell potential players to jump into the game when even the battle tanks are very limited in availability.

On the other hand, I expect that we'll start seeing more figures rapidly being released. And as they get released, the complaints about this particular issue will vanish.

So would you say that... the models come sooner than you think? Maybe GW should have used that line in their marketing.

We have a rumor, so it's reasonable to believe it won't be long for further releases. However it's good to remember that Specialist Games don't really get rapid releases even when they're not troubled by delays like Tiny Heresy. Embiggened Heresy is the one outlier, but even there it took them a year and a half just to release assault Marines.

It's best to make your peace with a slow pace release plan, in my opinion. This game will be in an incomplete state for a good while still.

Well we know we should have had them by this weekend without some hickup(possibly related to red sea events and you can hardly blame GW for that if that's the case). So no we don't have to wait for long now.

I'm still waiting for Thunderhawks and Xiphons coming back in stock. GW is seriously struggling with their stock levels. Hell, I cant even buy LI bases for my Reivers I got in the AT18 starter at the moment (and no, LI bases are not included in the current AT18 starter)

 tauist wrote:
I'm still waiting for Thunderhawks and Xiphons coming back in stock. GW is seriously struggling with their stock levels. Hell, I cant even buy LI bases for my Reivers I got in the AT18 starter at the moment (and no, LI bases are not included in the current AT18 starter)

Cheers for that, as I was worried the starter had been repackaged. I'd prefer to keep things consistent with my AT collection.

I've noticed a few of the retailers (Firestorm Games was one) have a new stock of the core game, Rhinos, Solar Infantry and that's it so that range must have come in on a pallet.

I guess you could get multiples of the core box again (which can be had for around £100) but that would not make sense if you don't collect both marines and solar, and then you would have another copy of that God-awful rulebook which you will probably end up paying to have someone take off your hands!

Yeah my local has two copies of the main box back in stock since Friday, plus a selection of other kits... I managed to grab a Thunderhawk.

They had no marines (or they sold immediately to online) otherwise I'd have picked up a box.

tneva82 wrote:
Well we know we should have had them by this weekend without some hickup(possibly related to red sea events and you can hardly blame GW for that if that's the case). So no we don't have to wait for long now.

We would have had something. But aside from the new book, we don't know what else. For all we know, the release could have been the new book and the landspeeder box, and nothing else.

We don't know when the individual products will be released.

 Pacific wrote:
...and then you would have another copy of that God-awful rulebook which you will probably end up paying to have someone take off your hands!

I'm morbidly curious - what's your problem with the rulebook?

Just got notice that my FLGS got my rhinos in today. Still waiting on my Baneblades and Kratos tanks. This is from my order when the game was released. Sigh. GW is killing me with the lack of product and releases.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
...and then you would have another copy of that God-awful rulebook which you will probably end up paying to have someone take off your hands!

I'm morbidly curious - what's your problem with the rulebook?

Between long-winded explainations and points values that are way out, it gives the impression that it was released before it was ready to be signed off.

I wouldn't say it was god-awful though, and wouldn't say no to an unwanted copy going for something like £25. Unlike GW's other shameless money-milking exercises, its nice to have a game that only requires one book to get up and running.

Not if I should take the announcement about organized play for LI at "certain events" on the US circuit as a positive or a negative. They say "events", so meaning more than one, but I would be shocked if LI is included in the schedule for the Dallas event in May. Feels like they threw mention of LI in as a way of encouraging people to stay invested or keep some interest going, but it also seems to come across as they are admitting that their ability to even support the game at GW events alongside the their other systems is severely constrained due to the ongoing release and supply issues. Thoughts? Has there been any LI events announced in the UK yet?

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/02/05/announcing-the-2024-us-open-series-and-the-world-championships-of-warhammer-2024/

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/25/the-first-warhammer-the-old-world-events-at-warhammer-world-are-coming-soon/

Of particular interest...

Muster a 1,500-point army filled with infantry, heavy armour, flyers, and god-engines for three games of Legions Imperialis in one day at this snappy weekday Warhammer event.

...and not 3000 points.

SamusDrake wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/25/the-first-warhammer-the-old-world-events-at-warhammer-world-are-coming-soon/

Of particular interest...

Muster a 1,500-point army filled with infantry, heavy armour, flyers, and god-engines for three games of Legions Imperialis in one day at this snappy weekday Warhammer event.

...and not 3000 points.

If you look up the suggested point size from space marine 2nd edition, it's also 1500pts. That's actually the sad reality of the game as it is currently, it seemingly plays better at 1500, 3000 is impossible with all the stilly crap they added about tracking formations and add to that endless overwatch everywhere turns the movement phase into an early shooting phase wayyyyyy to much. A 3000pt tournament is impossible, you'd need like 5 hour rounds.

That's also why I'm praying they lock overwatch behind first fire for non point defense. Allowing overwatch on advance order in an alternating activation game has shown to be a bridge too far.

SamusDrake wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/25/the-first-warhammer-the-old-world-events-at-warhammer-world-are-coming-soon/

Of particular interest...

Muster a 1,500-point army filled with infantry, heavy armour, flyers, and god-engines for three games of Legions Imperialis in one day at this snappy weekday Warhammer event.

...and not 3000 points.

With the units currently available, a 3,000 point list is going to be repetitive in the extreme.

Soon as the next couple of waves are out, we’ll have a wider choice of commercially available models to craft lists with.

SamusDrake wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/01/25/the-first-warhammer-the-old-world-events-at-warhammer-world-are-coming-soon/

Of particular interest...

Muster a 1,500-point army filled with infantry, heavy armour, flyers, and god-engines for three games of Legions Imperialis in one day at this snappy weekday Warhammer event.

...and not 3000 points.

The sad thing to me is that they are only listing things we have now. Infantry, heave armor, flyers, and titans. No vanguard or battle tanks. I fear this means they expect events to only use the boxed sets currently available, which are those items. :(. This could be such a great game but they are strangling it in the crib.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crablezworth wrote:

That's also why I'm praying they lock overwatch behind first fire for non point defense. Allowing overwatch on advance order in an alternating activation game has shown to be a bridge too far.

I don’t always agree with things you say, but I must admit this one I fully agree on and was surprised. I figured first fire would be the only way to do non point defense over watch. It really seems like that would still be a good idea to help further differentiate between advance and first fire. Maybe further playing will bear out the RAW but it does seem odd.

So the points values confirm what we knew about the scale of the game in terms of what tournament organisers will do with it.

SamusDrake wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:

 Pacific wrote:
...and then you would have another copy of that God-awful rulebook which you will probably end up paying to have someone take off your hands!

I'm morbidly curious - what's your problem with the rulebook?

Between long-winded explainations and points values that are way out, it gives the impression that it was released before it was ready to be signed off.

I wouldn't say it was god-awful though, and wouldn't say no to an unwanted copy going for something like £25. Unlike GW's other shameless money-milking exercises, its nice to have a game that only requires one book to get up and running.

Yes that's it really. In my thirty years of being in the hobby I will say the Legions rulebook is possibly the worst one by GW that I have ever encountered. Aside from it being written like the legal text included with a pack of laxative tablets (although interestingly, the text has the opposite effect) my main criticism is the style of the book; the lack of any colour or artwork beyond photoshopped miniatures, it is just incredibly dull. The background bits being just pasted into blocks, the layout is appalling (big empty half pages - perhaps where the artwork should have gone!) I *love* Epic, and have done so since I was 12 years old, GW have one of the most evocative settings here with literally tons of artwork available, and I had to force my way through it in chunks, in between cups of strong coffee. It does absolutely nothing to fire the imagination or make me want me to play the game, and so in my mind that is such a wasted opportunity.

 Pacific wrote:
So the points values confirm what we knew about the scale of the game in terms of what tournament organisers will do with it.

Apart from not many units available making big armies impractical atm what it shows?

Hard to get 2k without infantry spam let alone 3k.

Now not the time for big tournaments if you want players. Not many have even 2k armies yet...