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 SirDonlad wrote:
Literally never saw a squat which wasn't in power armour apart from the trikes, bikes and sentinels.
What are the current models kitted out in?

If the militia having PA is weird then why are they able to take volkite weapons?

edit: or landraiders..

Mate, basically all squats had something else than powered armour except for the Hearthguards and their heavy exosuits. Most wore Guard-equivalent flak vests.




Current Votann troopers wear a 4+ save envirosuit, which is also very much not power armour.

As for volkites, they were a common design before and during the Old Night. It's a classic scifi death ray, just temperamental and a pain to maintain (which is an excellent reason to have it in the third-rate militias that are already raiding the bottom of the armoury). Everyone has access to volkites, from marines to Mechanicum to Auxilia to Militia. Similarly Land Raiders and Rhinos were a regular sight among the teeming masses of humanity before getting relegated to Astartes only, so finding some rusty pieces of kit still among the endlessly varied home armies of the galaxy is pretty fine and dandy.

 morganfreeman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:


That is fair, but my question, why bother with a horde of infantry when you can T1 charge someone of the table.

meanwhile arty is basically either a pillow or doom incarnate depending upon enemy.

Board control, cheaper PPM, enough slots to take sufficient units to absorb losses, the ability to tough it out in prolonged combats (which the cav would be terrible at). Or straight up not liking horses in 40k.

My example was the first thing that came to mind for me. I’ve no doubt it’s not the only functional / decently strong list in there or that it couldn’t be enhanced by some cav units to help win combats.

I never stated that, my point was more along the line the dex has a scale from one extreme to the other ( as it should considering what it is) and basically not having the sweetspot in a middle /mixture of units but rather seemingly forcing players to lean overly heavy in an archetype and that those i see that will work (and i think the mass horde list will work just as well probably better than cav rush) i can't imagine being fun to play with or against after the novelity wears off.

F.e. the cav list is basically a coinflip, you go first and you more or less can wipe an enemy army out because the lances are seriously mean. If you got to go second... welll OOF... The infantry list, i will be honest, even I that likes to mass hordes will stop at 300 models for an army to transport if i can't get a helper. Will it work better or more reliably ? yes, certainly the chance of outright losing is basically 0 or at most corresponding with the ammount of salamanders players in your local area. But nobody i know would carry more than 300 or even make more than 300 unless it's me.

The cav list otoh, is feasable to be created in timely fashion and quite likely depending upon if you can use alternatives or can't in your local store, quite a bit cheaper but after the 3rd 40 min game being decided and ended T1 hyperbolically i just don't see it as healthy.
Just as i don't think a 40 mortar list is healthy. Just one is only pinning the enemy in place , the other is just flat out wiping PA armies or getting wiped by PA armies.

 Sherrypie wrote:

Spoiler:

 SirDonlad wrote:
Literally never saw a squat which wasn't in power armour apart from the trikes, bikes and sentinels.
What are the current models kitted out in?

If the militia having PA is weird then why are they able to take volkite weapons?

edit: or landraiders..

Mate, basically all squats had something else than powered armour except for the Hearthguards and their heavy exosuits. Most wore Guard-equivalent flak vests.




Current Votann troopers wear a 4+ save envirosuit, which is also very much not power armour.

As for volkites, they were a common design before and during the Old Night. It's a classic scifi death ray, just temperamental and a pain to maintain (which is an excellent reason to have it in the third-rate militias that are already raiding the bottom of the armoury). Everyone has access to volkites, from marines to Mechanicum to Auxilia to Militia. Similarly Land Raiders and Rhinos were a regular sight among the teeming masses of humanity before getting relegated to Astartes only, so finding some rusty pieces of kit still among the endlessly varied home armies of the galaxy is pretty fine and dandy.

Okay, well thanks for that; i get the feel it was that the circles i was in/around that bought/used the heavy assault models exclusively skewed my perception.

I maintain that it's not weird for a militia to have access to power armour in the way the original Cults & Militia list allows it for command groups and grenadier units.

 SirDonlad wrote:

 Sherrypie wrote:

Spoiler:

 SirDonlad wrote:
Literally never saw a squat which wasn't in power armour apart from the trikes, bikes and sentinels.
What are the current models kitted out in?

If the militia having PA is weird then why are they able to take volkite weapons?

edit: or landraiders..

Mate, basically all squats had something else than powered armour except for the Hearthguards and their heavy exosuits. Most wore Guard-equivalent flak vests.




Current Votann troopers wear a 4+ save envirosuit, which is also very much not power armour.

As for volkites, they were a common design before and during the Old Night. It's a classic scifi death ray, just temperamental and a pain to maintain (which is an excellent reason to have it in the third-rate militias that are already raiding the bottom of the armoury). Everyone has access to volkites, from marines to Mechanicum to Auxilia to Militia. Similarly Land Raiders and Rhinos were a regular sight among the teeming masses of humanity before getting relegated to Astartes only, so finding some rusty pieces of kit still among the endlessly varied home armies of the galaxy is pretty fine and dandy.

Okay, well thanks for that; i get the feel it was that the circles i was in/around that bought/used the heavy assault models exclusively skewed my perception.

I maintain that it's not weird for a militia to have access to power armour in the way the original Cults & Militia list allows it for command groups and grenadier units.

To be fair, I don't see that as too weird either. There are plenty of civilisations out there that absolutely would have something in the right abstraction ballpark, like cyborg grenadiers or the like. Especially if it's contained to a small contingent within the list, so it wouldn't compromise the faction identity of "bunch of goons in t-shirts" in a world where other armies have it as standard issue

 Sherrypie wrote:

 SirDonlad wrote:

 Sherrypie wrote:

Spoiler:

 SirDonlad wrote:
Literally never saw a squat which wasn't in power armour apart from the trikes, bikes and sentinels.
What are the current models kitted out in?

If the militia having PA is weird then why are they able to take volkite weapons?

edit: or landraiders..

Mate, basically all squats had something else than powered armour except for the Hearthguards and their heavy exosuits. Most wore Guard-equivalent flak vests.




Current Votann troopers wear a 4+ save envirosuit, which is also very much not power armour.

As for volkites, they were a common design before and during the Old Night. It's a classic scifi death ray, just temperamental and a pain to maintain (which is an excellent reason to have it in the third-rate militias that are already raiding the bottom of the armoury). Everyone has access to volkites, from marines to Mechanicum to Auxilia to Militia. Similarly Land Raiders and Rhinos were a regular sight among the teeming masses of humanity before getting relegated to Astartes only, so finding some rusty pieces of kit still among the endlessly varied home armies of the galaxy is pretty fine and dandy.

Okay, well thanks for that; i get the feel it was that the circles i was in/around that bought/used the heavy assault models exclusively skewed my perception.

I maintain that it's not weird for a militia to have access to power armour in the way the original Cults & Militia list allows it for command groups and grenadier units.

To be fair, I don't see that as too weird either. There are plenty of civilisations out there that absolutely would have something in the right abstraction ballpark, like cyborg grenadiers or the like. Especially if it's contained to a small contingent within the list, so it wouldn't compromise the faction identity of "bunch of goons in t-shirts" in a world where other armies have it as standard issue

This is a setting where a complete Imperial Knight Paladin blueprint can be spat out of your stc generator as the ideal solution to your logging needs...

Taking that concept further; whats stopping an STC machine spitting out a complete un-corrupted 'Man of Iron' blueprint for expendable troops?

Bobug wrote:

I'm not sure your "meat grinder" would pan out particularly well, remember those hordes are ld6 (5 if the sarge goes down) before night fight and fear, and if they fail a morale test they're flat out gone.

Sorry let me clarify, I don't think it will be awful, but I also don't think it'll be some broken game winning strat either. Definitely a fun option though

Oh levy also aren't line!

Good thing Discipline Masters take them up to 8 with a re-roll.

Though I'll second the idea that I'd almost rather have them disappear and go into Endless Hordes as if you are leaning into that army, you are likely running out of space trying to shoehorn literally hundreds of figs into any available space.

The Warcry warbands of Darkoath Savagers, Spire Tyrants, Chaos Legionnaires, Horns of Hashut, and Untamed Beasts, along with some Chaos Marauders, would together make for a great Feral Warriors army. If they were taken as levies, then maybe each troop slot of three units could represent each different tribe. As said before, Accursed Cultists would make for great Tainted Flesh levies, as would Poxwalkers, Crypt Ghouls, Deathrattle Skeletons, Deadwalker Zombies, Tzaangors, Night Runners, Plague Monks, Clanrats, Khainite Shadowstalkers, Tarantulos Brood, and Melusai Blood Stalkers and Blood Sisters. Debased Rabble would be well-represented by regular Chaos Cultists, Scions of the Flame, Jade Obelisk, Corvus Cabal, the Unmade, Rotmire Creed, Bloodreavers, Kairic Acolytes, and Blissbarb Archers. Of course, all of the Warcry warbands would probably be good for Feral Warriors, and Chaos Marauders would work well for both.

Not to mention the slew of third party models that come at a better rate than 50$ for 20 points.

 SirDonlad wrote:
This is a setting where a complete Imperial Knight Paladin blueprint can be spat out of your stc generator as the ideal solution to your logging needs...

Taking that concept further; whats stopping an STC machine spitting out a complete un-corrupted 'Man of Iron' blueprint for expendable troops?

1 - An STC machine of that calibre has never been discovered by the Imperium. The vast majority of remaining STCs are fragments of the wider database and even then these fragments are fragmented further into parts or sections of a blueprint.

2 - Men of Iron are massively illegal in the Imperium thanks to the Treaty of Mars that banned any and all production of Artificial Intelligence because of the war with said Men of Iron. It's a standing order that any and all A.I. discovered by any branch of the Imperium or Mechanicum is to be utterly eradicated. The ban on A.I. was one of the reasons the Dark Mechanicum formed as they felt it was needlessly oppressive.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Not to mention the slew of third party models that come at a better rate than 50$ for 20 points.

I'm eyeing up the Wargames Atlantic Landsknecht Ogres...

beast_gts wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Not to mention the slew of third party models that come at a better rate than 50$ for 20 points.

I'm eyeing up the Wargames Atlantic Landsknecht Ogres...

Not landsknecht but that is, what you can do with the bulldogs and the great war germans are nice to boot with a bit of bit intermixing, notice all of this is still WIP:



Overall i have yet to see a bad price/quality/quantity-kit from WGA.

Trencher mode Bulldogs are fantastic.

Landsknecht Ogres are also great sculpts but bear in mind they have half less volume than GW Ogryn.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Trencher mode Bulldogs are fantastic.

Landsknecht Ogres are also great sculpts but bear in mind they have half less volume than GW Ogryn.

The later is a no matter, since we are talking militia. Maybee they are like my ogryn in darktide, lord button, just an oversized human that get's treated as a ogryn and pretends to be one.

That said, i may have been tempted to expand that army there.. with a bit of cav, some more HWT's and cadians that soon will have superior helmets to become grenadiers. Also, more fieldgun, because fieldgun.

Oh! Oh wow!

Just saw those Bulldog Minis, which are fantastic models. But that’s not what made me go Wow. Well, not entirely.

But they did make me think of the truly excellent Genesis of the Daleks. Specifically the first episode’s opening scenes, where we see Kaleds and Thalls on the battlefield. Or at least their bodies.

And The Doctor notes the mix of gear. Some archaic, some high-tech. A sign of civilisations that have been at war for decades, maybe centuries.

And is that not a fantastic idea for a Militia force’s aesthetic, as well as even more of a Carte Blanche to mix up looks.

Conversion Free/Light example? For your Grenadiers, use Solar Auxilia. For your Great Unwashed? The Bulldog models or similar, perhaps with slightly more SciFi Passing weapons. That created a Feudal Look. The posh boys get Proper Equipment. The plebs get super basic equipment, because they’re expected, maybe required, to Die In Droves, so no point giving them fancy toys.

Just go for some kind of unifying paintscheme - even just a Shared Spot Colour.

But I’m also super impressed with the Militia List, as beyond some decal scraping, one can absolutely use the brand new Cadians if you wish.

Plastic Grognard cavalry on raptors is in the pipeline too, isn't it

Sorry, should probably stop talking about Atlantic here

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
Oh! Oh wow!

Just saw those Bulldog Minis, which are fantastic models. But that’s not what made me go Wow. Well, not entirely.

But they did make me think of the truly excellent Genesis of the Daleks. Specifically the first episode’s opening scenes, where we see Kaleds and Thalls on the battlefield. Or at least their bodies.

And The Doctor notes the mix of gear. Some archaic, some high-tech. A sign of civilisations that have been at war for decades, maybe centuries.

And is that not a fantastic idea for a Militia force’s aesthetic, as well as even more of a Carte Blanche to mix up looks.

Conversion Free/Light example? For your Grenadiers, use Solar Auxilia. For your Great Unwashed? The Bulldog models or similar, perhaps with slightly more SciFi Passing weapons.

Just go for some kind of unifying paintscheme - even just a Shared Spot Colour.

It's not just the bulldogs. The frenchies of WGA are, if you like it more clean, probably the blend you describe even better and that blend of anachronistic mixture of equipment and armament is really close to the initial idea of 40k guard isn't it?

Ironically that mixture you described, despite never having seen an episode of dr who, is what i in general went for for that army.

i use a 21.cm Mörser for a medusa stand in from Takom as that thing is the inspiration behind the medus from FW and not nearly as organ sales inducing. It's a historical kit and may require some leaving out of valves but is easily 40kable



And i used the common 100mm Skoda howitzer for rapiers and will use them as fieldguns ontop of the new fieldguns to represent the more ramshackle nature of the arsenal of this army.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Plastic Grognard cavalry on raptors is in the pipeline too, isn't it

Sorry, should probably stop talking about Atlantic here

Advertiser plant !!!!!!

jokes aside, it's gw that isn't delivering, whilest WGA delivers, sans bases though for the guard. Also i get between 40 -60 models for a lower price than 10 GW cadians, even if i have to buy bases.
And the best part, they are perfectly fine to be kitbashed into one another if you are even a slightly advanced hobbiest. Which is what i personally recomend.

Those look so cool. The whole army is going to look sweet!

Not Online!!! wrote:


I never stated that, my point was more along the line the dex has a scale from one extreme to the other ( as it should considering what it is) and basically not having the sweetspot in a middle /mixture of units but rather seemingly forcing players to lean overly heavy in an archetype and that those i see that will work (and i think the mass horde list will work just as well probably better than cav rush) i can't imagine being fun to play with or against after the novelity wears off.

Oh yeah, that's totally true. But I also don't inherently think that's a problem. I'm okay with armies having various ways they're "supposed to play" so long as they're not mono list, especially in a game which is more focused on narrative rather than balls-to-the-wall-competitiveness.

That said it could definitely be a challenge. However HH being more historical than competitive wargame offers some opportunities to cut corners. Asking your opponent if you can measure movement for the first couple of guys in your units, then quickly place everyone else behind them, can make movement much faster. I was actually working on a Renegades list for IA13 back in 7th edition, which would've had something to the tune of 150-200 "chaff" infantry. My plan was to just use movement trays to speed the process up, only taking dudes off when they got into sticky terrain situations / charged in to actually assault.

So while it's not as simple as moving around 30 marines and 2300 points of tanks, some discussion (with a player who's not TFG) and pre-planning can make everyone's life a lot easier.

Also. What're these bulldogs people are referencing? I'm not familiar but I'd love to take a peak.

 morganfreeman wrote:
Also. What're these bulldogs people are referencing? I'm not familiar but I'd love to take a peak.

Here along with a few other nice IG proxy lines https://wargamesatlantic.com/collections/demo-collection

Hello fellow Dakkaites.

I have been lurking some discussions in my club's forum, from my mates playing WHH, seen some games IRL too. Horus Heresy looks like a good game with depth. I liked the 7th edition of W40k (played in gentleman's agreements mode, no formations shenanigans). Completely fed up from W40k 9th edition since last year, I have been waiting for a book depicting the proto-Astra-Militarum since the launch of current edition of Horus Heresy. Then a book for imperial forces was out, but without the militia imperialis, contrary to the V1 of the game. The studio announced a PDF, which is not as exciting, but hey why not... Then I waited, waited still. Rumors of a book to depict the militia, but no, nothing happens. After a year waiting, the PDF drops at last. I eagerly read it, the old V1 militia imperial codex in mind, my little collection of Astra Militarum miniatures ready to hit the table.


I can't express how deep is my disappointment.


Loads of units absent from the list. An assassine morale rule for the infantry. All tanks take heavy damage on glancing hits. Points hikes here and there, almost everything seems bad on performance/cost. No artillery tanks, no Carnodon, no Aurox etc... no LRBT squadrons, weak firepower. Almost no options on regular infantry except the vaguely different rifles I don't care about. The Imperialis Militia PDF codex looks heavily constrained for building a list with, and unfun to play. Basically looks like : You are comically weak, you remove loads of models from the table, the Space Marine automatically wins.


How are we supposed to play this codex with a decent chance to put a fight ?

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Hello fellow Dakkaites.

I have been lurking some discussions in my club's forum, from my mates playing WHH, seen some games IRL too. Horus Heresy looks like a good game with depth. I liked the 7th edition of W40k (played in gentleman's agreements mode, no formations shenanigans). Completely fed up from W40k 9th edition since last year, I have been waiting for a book depicting the proto-Astra-Militarum since the launch of current edition of Horus Heresy. Then a book for imperial forces was out, but without the militia imperialis, contrary to the V1 of the game. The studio announced a PDF, which is not as exciting, but hey why not... Then I waited, waited still. Rumors of a book to depict the militia, but no, nothing happens. After a year waiting, the PDF drops at last. I eagerly read it, the old V1 militia imperial codex in mind, my little collection of Astra Militarum miniatures ready to hit the table.


I can't express how deep is my disappointment.


Loads of units absent from the list. An assassine morale rule for the infantry. All tanks take heavy damage on glancing hits. Points hikes here and there, almost everything seems bad on performance/cost. No artillery tanks, no Carnodon, no Aurox etc... no LRBT squadrons, weak firepower. Almost no options on regular infantry except the vaguely different rifles I don't care about. The Imperialis Militia PDF codex looks heavily constrained for building a list with, and unfun to play. Basically looks like : You are comically weak, you remove loads of models from the table, the Space Marine automatically wins.


How are we supposed to play this codex with a decent chance to put a fight ?

The key is to look at the provenances and then lean in, don't go half measures, this is not guard and i may well have fallen into this thought pattern aswell before.


Well. There are actually some things in there that will atleast make marines cry if they are one of the PA heavier legions.
F.e. Cav with lances or bikers with lances? Ogryn conscripts. both of these are i say more than workable enough depending upon how you proceed with provenances and how well you manouvre.
Infantry, surprisingly can be made to be some of the most durable things in this game on a per point basis. (unending horde + kinfolk. T4 2 pts models and whole squads coming back half the time is a special kind of absurd, not because it can't be destroyed but rather it won't be unless you manouvre really badly without an exorbitant ammount of firepower.)


also also, be happy that you didn't get the arty tanks, those are majorly bad priced, the normal heavy versions that the milita has are far superior. (afterall why bother with 1 legion scorpious, when you can get 1 earthshaker and a fieldgun for the same price. Or 3 for a singular bombard. And don't even bother with SA, their tank artillery is basically 1 earthshaker for 200 pts --> which is 2 earthshakers and a fieldgun

Tanks are actually unironically better from Milita (or actually even better than for marines or anyone else really) than they are for SA, not the malcador though, because he loses independent gunners and armor but the humble leman?

. for one you lose flanking attack on some chasis that the SA have, sucks, but when you are 30/ 15 pts cheaper than the "cheap" leman russ and don't give up killpoints and 45/30 on the expensive versions (the versions with the big mean guns) then those two things are actually hillarious.
Add to that, that you can field 6/ HS slot, and get an additional 2 HS slots with industrial stronghold... if you like tanks then milita has you more than covered, also but glancing are full hits. Yeah, that is one result on a D6, and let's not beat around the bush, the same things that will get used against your leman russes will anyways outright wipe them regardless if you have worse armor and between getting glanced to death is irrelevant, but atleast with militia those tank losses don't count for the victory of your opponents, nor are you saddled with the rather horrendous tercio cohesionary deployment rules.Oh and for good measure, you can make your whole army mini techmarines with kinfolk once again,

Sure, a combined arms force a la IG, nope this isn't that. You can come close with certain combinations but this isn't the strength of this list, and the more i look at it the more i think if they drop some units prices and grant us more access to special weapons then this will be a rather strong list actualy.

Further there are some other funny things that you could do with AL as a main detachment and militia as a minor one with boosts to accuracy or saboteurs etc just fwiw.

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Hello fellow Dakkaites.

I have been lurking some discussions in my club's forum, from my mates playing WHH, seen some games IRL too. Horus Heresy looks like a good game with depth. I liked the 7th edition of W40k (played in gentleman's agreements mode, no formations shenanigans). Completely fed up from W40k 9th edition since last year, I have been waiting for a book depicting the proto-Astra-Militarum since the launch of current edition of Horus Heresy. Then a book for imperial forces was out, but without the militia imperialis, contrary to the V1 of the game. The studio announced a PDF, which is not as exciting, but hey why not... Then I waited, waited still. Rumors of a book to depict the militia, but no, nothing happens. After a year waiting, the PDF drops at last. I eagerly read it, the old V1 militia imperial codex in mind, my little collection of Astra Militarum miniatures ready to hit the table.


I can't express how deep is my disappointment.


Loads of units absent from the list. An assassine morale rule for the infantry. All tanks take heavy damage on glancing hits. Points hikes here and there, almost everything seems bad on performance/cost. No artillery tanks, no Carnodon, no Aurox etc... no LRBT squadrons, weak firepower. Almost no options on regular infantry except the vaguely different rifles I don't care about. The Imperialis Militia PDF codex looks heavily constrained for building a list with, and unfun to play. Basically looks like : You are comically weak, you remove loads of models from the table, the Space Marine automatically wins.


How are we supposed to play this codex with a decent chance to put a fight ?

Spoiler:

The key is to look at the provenances and then lean in, don't go half measures, this is not guard and i may well have fallen into this thought pattern aswell before.


Well. There are actually some things in there that will atleast make marines cry if they are one of the PA heavier legions.
F.e. Cav with lances or bikers with lances? Ogryn conscripts. both of these are i say more than workable enough depending upon how you proceed with provenances and how well you manouvre.
Infantry, surprisingly can be made to be some of the most durable things in this game on a per point basis. (unending horde + kinfolk. T4 2 pts models and whole squads coming back half the time is a special kind of absurd, not because it can't be destroyed but rather it won't be unless you manouvre really badly without an exorbitant ammount of firepower.)


also also, be happy that you didn't get the arty tanks, those are majorly bad priced, the normal heavy versions that the milita has are far superior. (afterall why bother with 1 legion scorpious, when you can get 1 earthshaker and a fieldgun for the same price. Or 3 for a singular bombard. And don't even bother with SA, their tank artillery is basically 1 earthshaker for 200 pts --> which is 2 earthshakers and a fieldgun

Tanks are actually unironically better from Milita (or actually even better than for marines or anyone else really) than they are for SA, not the malcador though, because he loses independent gunners and armor but the humble leman?

. for one you lose flanking attack on some chasis that the SA have, sucks, but when you are 30/ 15 pts cheaper than the "cheap" leman russ and don't give up killpoints and 45/30 on the expensive versions (the versions with the big mean guns) then those two things are actually hillarious.
Add to that, that you can field 6/ HS slot, and get an additional 2 HS slots with industrial stronghold... if you like tanks then milita has you more than covered, also but glancing are full hits. Yeah, that is one result on a D6, and let's not beat around the bush, the same things that will get used against your leman russes will anyways outright wipe them regardless if you have worse armor and between getting glanced to death is irrelevant, but atleast with militia those tank losses don't count for the victory of your opponents, nor are you saddled with the rather horrendous tercio cohesionary deployment rules.Oh and for good measure, you can make your whole army mini techmarines with kinfolk once again,

Sure, a combined arms force a la IG, nope this isn't that. You can come close with certain combinations but this isn't the strength of this list, and the more i look at it the more i think if they drop some units prices and grant us more access to special weapons then this will be a rather strong list actualy.

Further there are some other funny things that you could do with AL as a main detachment and militia as a minor one with boosts to accuracy or saboteurs etc just fwiw.

Snip.

^ Basically this.

Militia / Cults / What have you isn't built to be a balanced combined-arms army. You're meant to pick complimentary provenances and then lean in. Hard. It has multiple builds which are quite powerful in the current HH climate. Cheap throw-away tank spam, infantry mass melee, mass respawning infantry, and cavalry spam alpha-strike are all viably strong and don't even need to define your list. 500 levies - more than anyone would ever want to field in any version of reality - is literally 1,000 points; or 1/3rd of a standard army.

That said, the army is definitely going to be insanely expensive to play. Any list is probably bringing several hundred cannon fodder dudes at the bare minimum. So while it's far from unplayable garbage, it's definitely going to be a chore to put a list together.

 morganfreeman wrote:

Not Online!!! wrote:

 Ravajaxe wrote:
Hello fellow Dakkaites.

I have been lurking some discussions in my club's forum, from my mates playing WHH, seen some games IRL too. Horus Heresy looks like a good game with depth. I liked the 7th edition of W40k (played in gentleman's agreements mode, no formations shenanigans). Completely fed up from W40k 9th edition since last year, I have been waiting for a book depicting the proto-Astra-Militarum since the launch of current edition of Horus Heresy. Then a book for imperial forces was out, but without the militia imperialis, contrary to the V1 of the game. The studio announced a PDF, which is not as exciting, but hey why not... Then I waited, waited still. Rumors of a book to depict the militia, but no, nothing happens. After a year waiting, the PDF drops at last. I eagerly read it, the old V1 militia imperial codex in mind, my little collection of Astra Militarum miniatures ready to hit the table.


I can't express how deep is my disappointment.


Loads of units absent from the list. An assassine morale rule for the infantry. All tanks take heavy damage on glancing hits. Points hikes here and there, almost everything seems bad on performance/cost. No artillery tanks, no Carnodon, no Aurox etc... no LRBT squadrons, weak firepower. Almost no options on regular infantry except the vaguely different rifles I don't care about. The Imperialis Militia PDF codex looks heavily constrained for building a list with, and unfun to play. Basically looks like : You are comically weak, you remove loads of models from the table, the Space Marine automatically wins.


How are we supposed to play this codex with a decent chance to put a fight ?

Spoiler:

The key is to look at the provenances and then lean in, don't go half measures, this is not guard and i may well have fallen into this thought pattern aswell before.


Well. There are actually some things in there that will atleast make marines cry if they are one of the PA heavier legions.
F.e. Cav with lances or bikers with lances? Ogryn conscripts. both of these are i say more than workable enough depending upon how you proceed with provenances and how well you manouvre.
Infantry, surprisingly can be made to be some of the most durable things in this game on a per point basis. (unending horde + kinfolk. T4 2 pts models and whole squads coming back half the time is a special kind of absurd, not because it can't be destroyed but rather it won't be unless you manouvre really badly without an exorbitant ammount of firepower.)


also also, be happy that you didn't get the arty tanks, those are majorly bad priced, the normal heavy versions that the milita has are far superior. (afterall why bother with 1 legion scorpious, when you can get 1 earthshaker and a fieldgun for the same price. Or 3 for a singular bombard. And don't even bother with SA, their tank artillery is basically 1 earthshaker for 200 pts --> which is 2 earthshakers and a fieldgun

Tanks are actually unironically better from Milita (or actually even better than for marines or anyone else really) than they are for SA, not the malcador though, because he loses independent gunners and armor but the humble leman?

. for one you lose flanking attack on some chasis that the SA have, sucks, but when you are 30/ 15 pts cheaper than the "cheap" leman russ and don't give up killpoints and 45/30 on the expensive versions (the versions with the big mean guns) then those two things are actually hillarious.
Add to that, that you can field 6/ HS slot, and get an additional 2 HS slots with industrial stronghold... if you like tanks then milita has you more than covered, also but glancing are full hits. Yeah, that is one result on a D6, and let's not beat around the bush, the same things that will get used against your leman russes will anyways outright wipe them regardless if you have worse armor and between getting glanced to death is irrelevant, but atleast with militia those tank losses don't count for the victory of your opponents, nor are you saddled with the rather horrendous tercio cohesionary deployment rules.Oh and for good measure, you can make your whole army mini techmarines with kinfolk once again,

Sure, a combined arms force a la IG, nope this isn't that. You can come close with certain combinations but this isn't the strength of this list, and the more i look at it the more i think if they drop some units prices and grant us more access to special weapons then this will be a rather strong list actualy.

Further there are some other funny things that you could do with AL as a main detachment and militia as a minor one with boosts to accuracy or saboteurs etc just fwiw.

Snip.

^ Basically this.

Militia / Cults / What have you isn't built to be a balanced combined-arms army. You're meant to pick complimentary provenances and then lean in. Hard. It has multiple builds which are quite powerful in the current HH climate. Cheap throw-away tank spam, infantry mass melee, mass respawning infantry, and cavalry spam alpha-strike are all viably strong and don't even need to define your list. 500 levies - more than anyone would ever want to field in any version of reality - is literally 1,000 points; or 1/3rd of a standard army.

That said, the army is definitely going to be insanely expensive to play. Any list is probably bringing several hundred cannon fodder dudes at the bare minimum. So while it's far from unplayable garbage, it's definitely going to be a chore to put a list together.

Agreed. There comes a point where just dipping the buggers in woodstain becomes tempting.
But at the same time, yes. The face that 'a full infantry battalion, an attached tank company and a regimental command baneblade' is a fairly realistic theme for your army is a scary prospect.

Hate to break it to you folks, Militia were always expensive unless you already had a sizeable collection of Guard or Cultists, which was kind of the point for introducing the list in the first place.

 Gert wrote:
Hate to break it to you folks, Militia were always expensive unless you already had a sizeable collection of Guard or Cultists, which was kind of the point for introducing the list in the first place.

or you find someone that makes guard equivalent infantry for an actually acceptable price unlike GW?

Which doesn't account for tanks, planes, artillery, or units like Ogryns.
Unless the army is being run as an allied army, even a 2k list is gonna set you back a fair whack of cash.
I do agree that the best choices are 3rd parties, with Wargames Atlantic and Historicals being the best IMO. The former is usually about £25 for 24 models and the latter is always cheaper than GW, for example, the Warlord Games Winter Soviets is £40.50 for 40 models.

 Gert wrote:
Which doesn't account for tanks, planes, artillery, or units like Ogryns.
Unless the army is being run as an allied army, even a 2k list is gonna set you back a fair whack of cash.
I do agree that the best choices are 3rd parties, with Wargames Atlantic and Historicals being the best IMO. The former is usually about £25 for 24 models and the latter is always cheaper than GW, for example, the Warlord Games Winter Soviets is £40.50 for 40 models.

For a Napoleonic flair, Perry Miniatures Austrian Infantry are £22 for 48 models, which is almost a whole Levy Squad (or two Infantry Squads). Pretty quick and easy to paint up with Contrast paints too.

Oh yeah, absolutely the Perry brothers.

Warlord have just kicked off their Spring Sprue Sale, so you might be able to get them even cheaper.

Okay, so idea that I'm not sure works as per rules.

Saul's warlord trait specifies "friendly" units within 12" gain feerless if he fufill's some conditions. Would Solar units allied in (I forget which level of allies they are) be considered friendly?

If so spending 200 points on 100 levy models would be rather funny. A few squads of 20 or 30 hovering around Saul, Just throw them at big annoying things like dreads. "Cool your dread will win combat every turn but it'll take 6 or so rounds to kill 60 points worth of bodies." Hell even a primarch would struggle to make his points back caving skulls in, letting you go after other units and tip the battle to your favour.