Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Dudeface wrote: I meant to include the summary from goonhammmer reviewing them, which is rarely that far off the mark:
General Unit Thoughts
With the boosts to Miracle Dice generation, some crazy combos, and just really good units, this army looks primed to actually do some damage in 10th edition. One of the problems I forsee is trying to figure out what Leaders to attach to what units, there is so many options that it can be a little daunting. I will say though, that is a good problem to have, that means this army has a bunch of good options.
Wrap Up
That’s it for the Sisters – overall, we’re pretty happy with where they are in 10th, with some straightforwardly good and useful abilities plus a range of helpful tricks which add a little more.
Hmm, my reply got apparently deleted cause of the meme, so here again without meme:
That whole article really reads less like a review and more like a presentatation by GW itself, spiced up with some hot air(like the nonsense about the allegedly crazy amount of leader options for example) and an overreliance on the word cool, and i'm not sure who they mean with "we're pretty happy" but definitely not Sisters players considering how very unhappy many of these were(and the Ad Mech article seems to be quite controversial as well, even though apparently to a lesser degree) with this article, this here was the most friendly but still fitting description of it i've seen:
It's wild seeing most Sisters players either generally disappointed or cautiously optimistic about certain possibilities based on how the points go and these guys going "YUP ARMY IS AMAZING!!"
It's an impressive disconnect.
Oh yeah, and i couldn't even write a simple sentence under that article, cause it's moderated and didn't work for some reason.
gunchar wrote: One group mostly consisting of non-Sisters players says, everything is fine because you can jump through several hoops to do basic gak, here just look at how this Goonhammer article hypes up hot air, etc...
I think it should be noted that all Sisters and non-Sisters players are on the same number of games for 10th : zero.
WH40K is no sorcery, and unlike players of other fraction Sisters players should have some more in-depth experience with + knowledge of the army, and better know what works in it, saying we don't know points yet would be fair(even though Sisters clearly were not a pretty much Horde army before), but what some non-Sisters players in this thread do is straight up gaslighting. Although some probably just genuinly don't know what their even talking about, like:
FezzikDaBullgryn wrote: Ah, the sweet tears of the people who spent most of 9th being one of the more broken wombo combos in the game, suddenly not being OP anymore.
"I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in OPness and were suddenly silenced."
I'm kinda glad sisters can't just rock up to a knight and one shot it with miracle dice anymore. It's almost.....balanced.
The straight up overrated(especially by Art of War, who simply continued to pretend Necrons and Sisters would be the two top armies fighting for first place, even after week for week reality + the actual statistics disagreed with them) actual Nephelim combo was Bloody Rose + Armor of Contempt + broken secondaries, in Arks of Omen with still Bloody Rose but no Armor of Contempt and less broken secondaries Sisters fell down hard, and even left GW's "goldielocks" zone"(45-55%) to below 45% multiple times. So now taking away Bloody Rose and replacing it with a somewhat juiced up absolutely not competetive Order, taking away all the most effective anti-tank options, drastically restricting aura combos, etc... is not balance but pretty much the exact opposite of that.
Not sure who is referencing goonhammer articles. And yes, "Jumping through several hoops to do basic gak" or you know, stacking buffs is what everyone has to do. Very few units/factions can just delete tanks nowdays.
Sisters aren't deleting tanks by stacking buffs, they just might have a chance to take out one or two big tanks by stacking multiple way too often easily disruptable/not very flexible buffs/avoidable combos, except they actually became dirt cheap now.
cody.d. wrote: And saying "your not a real sister's player cause you don't agree with me" is a terrible argument.
Are you a Sisters player, and when exactly did i even say anything about people not being real Sisters players? You really shouldn't build strawmans...
cody.d. wrote: No unit works in a vacuum in 10th. Sisters have a decent toolbox that's the long and short of it.
Sisters absolutely don't have a decent toolbox against anything that's really tough in that Index, they just might be cheap enough to make up for that glaring flaw.
And i will generally repeat the most important point here again:
Sisters are a slow + low range glass(meaning fragile) canon army.
, they desperately need to do far above average dmg, or else they straight up don't function.
You can just admit you're bad and lack the skill to play the new index. It's a better look than disagreeing with the people who literally play the game for a living and who generally do very well at tournaments.
Wow, you really didn't need to prove my gaslighting point so blatantly, but yeah sure me and all the other disappointed or underwhelmed Sisters players just need to git gud while Sisters master-players like you, FezzikDaBullgryn and cody.d. will make Index Sisters the star in the competetive scene XD...
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/06/16 20:41:11
You can just admit you're bad and lack the skill to play the new index. It's a better look than disagreeing with the people who literally play the game for a living and who generally do very well at tournaments.
If doing something 'for a living' makes you unquestionably superior at it, then explain why GW's rules are so often error ridden...
The players that play 40k for a living tend to build their following due to exceptional tournament results. Are you going to argue that Seigler and Nanavati don't know what they're talking about?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gunchar wrote: Wow, you really didn't need to prove my gaslighting point so blatantly, but yeah sure me and all the other disappointed or underwhelmed Sisters players just need to git gud while Sisters master-players like you, FezzikDaBullgryn and cody.d. will make Index Sisters the star in the competetive scene XD...
I'm willing to bet that they end up as a top-half army and place well at tournaments with their rules as long as they aren't completely hosed by points. I'm also going to take Seigler and Nanavati's opinion on what works and what doesn't over some average Dakka poster's hot take.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/06/16 10:37:52
You can just admit you're bad and lack the skill to play the new index. It's a better look than disagreeing with the people who literally play the game for a living and who generally do very well at tournaments.
If doing something 'for a living' makes you unquestionably superior at it, then explain why GW's rules are so often error ridden...
The players that play 40k for a living tend to build their following due to exceptional tournament results. Are you going to argue that Seigler and Nanavati don't know what they're talking about?
Automatically Appended Next Post:
gunchar wrote: Wow, you really didn't need to prove my gaslighting point so blatantly, but yeah sure me and all the other disappointed or underwhelmed Sisters players just need to git gud while Sisters master-players like you, FezzikDaBullgryn and cody.d. will make Index Sisters the star in the competetive scene XD...
I'm willing to bet that they end up as a top-half army and place well at tournaments with their rules as long as they aren't completely hosed by points.
They know the game, the armies they play and are pretty good at predicting the meta. But they get rules wrong or don't see winning lists before they happen too. But they get things wrong too. Sisters being a army they get details wrong frequently.
Lammia wrote: They know the game, the armies they play and are pretty good at predicting the meta. But they get rules wrong or don't see winning lists before they happen too. But they get things wrong too. Sisters being a army they get details wrong frequently.
Okay, so what specific Sisters details have they gotten wrong in their index preview?
I'm willing to bet that they end up as a top-half army and place well at tournaments with their rules as long as they aren't completely hosed by points.
And i'm willing to bet that you've never even played at least a beer and pretzels game with 9th Edition Martyred Lady Sisters, also not getting hosed by points at this point pretty much means to change the armies identity from somewhat Elite to at least somewhat Horde.
Canadian 5th wrote: I'm also going to take Seigler and Nanavati's opinion on what works and what doesn't over some average Dakka poster's hot take.
Let's just ignore for a second that an army which just really works in the hands of around Siegler lvl players would be obviously not balanced in the correct way, instead of substanceless name-droping, what exactly did Siegler and Nanavati say(in their of course totally not hot take XD) Sisters should do to kill big tanks for example, and even more importantly how exactly should we bring that combo to the target without getting disrupted/avoided/killed?
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2023/06/16 10:59:33
gunchar wrote: Let's just ignore for a second that an army which just really works in the hands of around Seigler lvl players would be obviously not balanced in the correct way
Why can't some armies have higher skill ceilings than others? If Sisters can do well in the hands of very skilled players then there isn't an issue with the rules, there's an issue with a bunch of people playing them badly.
what exactly did Seigler and Nanavati say(in their of course totally not hot take XD) Sisters should do to kill big tanks for example, and even more importantly how exactly should we bring that combo to the target without getting disrupted/avoided/killed?
Retributors + Dialogus + Triumph of St Catherine: Miracle Dice are always equal to 6. That combo turns your bad miracle dice into dead tanks.
Dominions + Palatine: Lethal hits on a unit with 4 Melta guns and access to miracle dice is nasty.
The fact is your army is going to need to generate and manipulate miracle dice to do well. You're probably going to want to take the relic that gives 1d3 miracle dice when that character dies and rocket a throwaway character into the enemy.
See my worry is they’ll points cost them similar
to what they were with marines last edition. I don’t think GW is leaning to make them a hoard army. Where for a few extra you more than double many of the profiles and are better in every regard. So you’re about the same price when really they should be half or a third.
The fact they dropped the larger squad size suggests they don’t see the army as hoard despite a single chaos marine having 4 attacks now.
Especially because they have all these buff characters but you can only buff a 10 wound T3 unit. As opposed to marines who can still take 20 wound bricks of infantry. It’s a huge misstep.
But yeah I think GW still view them as an elite army so are going to point cost them similar to marines. I just don’t see GW having marine armies be 30 models and Sisters being 70. Sisters basically worked because they could exploit the charge and go first mechanic to overkill a unit before they could strike back. With miracle dice you could arrange that and control the board. A more attrition game needs to account for that in the points.
Starting Sons of Horus Legion
Starting Daughters of Khaine
2000pts Sisters of Silence
4000pts Fists Legion
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
Lammia wrote: They know the game, the armies they play and are pretty good at predicting the meta. But they get rules wrong or don't see winning lists before they happen too. But they get things wrong too. Sisters being a army they get details wrong frequently.
Okay, so what specific Sisters details have they gotten wrong in their index preview?
In this specific Index, none I've seen.
Though you have to be on the WarCom Hopium IV to write this from the Goonhammer review:
The Dialogus is just bananas, and looks like an auto include in any Retributor unit, slow roll saves on the non multi-melta toting model until it dies (for that sweet +1 to hit) and then burn miracle dice saving the rest (if needed), because wow, this is gonna be crazy. Oh and then once a model dies, feel free to use Rejoice the Fallen, to immediately shoot back with that Retributor unit. Ugh, this is just so wrong.
But when you read 'first turn of the Game' and say it's 'the first every turn' enough times that people actually play it that way, you actually become a rules problem for the game.
Lammia wrote: They know the game, the armies they play and are pretty good at predicting the meta. But they get rules wrong or don't see winning lists before they happen too. But they get things wrong too. Sisters being a army they get details wrong frequently.
Okay, so what specific Sisters details have they gotten wrong in their index preview?
In this specific Index, none I've seen.
Though you have to be on the WarCom Hopium IV to write this from the Goonhammer review:
The Dialogus is just bananas, and looks like an auto include in any Retributor unit, slow roll saves on the non multi-melta toting model until it dies (for that sweet +1 to hit) and then burn miracle dice saving the rest (if needed), because wow, this is gonna be crazy. Oh and then once a model dies, feel free to use Rejoice the Fallen, to immediately shoot back with that Retributor unit. Ugh, this is just so wrong.
But when you read 'first turn of the Game' and say it's 'the first every turn' enough times that people actually play it that way, you actually become a rules problem for the game.
The Dialogus with Triumph is actually nasty. As many miracle dice as you have are suddenly 6s and that unit you needed dead is now dead.
Lammia wrote: They know the game, the armies they play and are pretty good at predicting the meta. But they get rules wrong or don't see winning lists before they happen too. But they get things wrong too. Sisters being a army they get details wrong frequently.
Okay, so what specific Sisters details have they gotten wrong in their index preview?
In this specific Index, none I've seen.
Though you have to be on the WarCom Hopium IV to write this from the Goonhammer review:
The Dialogus is just bananas, and looks like an auto include in any Retributor unit, slow roll saves on the non multi-melta toting model until it dies (for that sweet +1 to hit) and then burn miracle dice saving the rest (if needed), because wow, this is gonna be crazy. Oh and then once a model dies, feel free to use Rejoice the Fallen, to immediately shoot back with that Retributor unit. Ugh, this is just so wrong.
But when you read 'first turn of the Game' and say it's 'the first every turn' enough times that people actually play it that way, you actually become a rules problem for the game.
The Dialogus with Triumph is actually nasty. As many miracle dice as you have are suddenly 6s and that unit you needed dead is now dead.
It's got potentual to maybe pop out and delete something valuable, midgame. But that's not what they are suggesting, they are suggesting there is a way to do real damage with a 5 woman T3 unit while it's being shot.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/16 11:58:12
Lammia wrote: They know the game, the armies they play and are pretty good at predicting the meta. But they get rules wrong or don't see winning lists before they happen too. But they get things wrong too. Sisters being a army they get details wrong frequently.
Okay, so what specific Sisters details have they gotten wrong in their index preview?
In this specific Index, none I've seen.
Though you have to be on the WarCom Hopium IV to write this from the Goonhammer review:
The Dialogus is just bananas, and looks like an auto include in any Retributor unit, slow roll saves on the non multi-melta toting model until it dies (for that sweet +1 to hit) and then burn miracle dice saving the rest (if needed), because wow, this is gonna be crazy. Oh and then once a model dies, feel free to use Rejoice the Fallen, to immediately shoot back with that Retributor unit. Ugh, this is just so wrong.
But when you read 'first turn of the Game' and say it's 'the first every turn' enough times that people actually play it that way, you actually become a rules problem for the game.
The Dialogus with Triumph is actually nasty. As many miracle dice as you have are suddenly 6s and that unit you needed dead is now dead.
It's got potentual to maybe pop out and delete something valuable, midgame. But that's not what they are suggesting, they are suggesting there is a way to do real damage with a 5 woman T3 unit while it's being shot.
The idea that you can get just one model killed is a best case scenario idea, but even the baseline of multimedia plus dialogus plus triumph is nasty and can come online as early as turn 2 if you suicide some cheap units to generate miracle dice.
Lammia wrote: Though you have to be on the WarCom Hopium IV to write this from the Goonhammer review:
I mean strictly speaking they are not wrong. If you have an undamaged retributor squad with a dialogus standing within 6" of the triumph and fifteen of your units have just been wiped off the board you can replace all of their multimelta attack, wound, and damage dice with 6s.
The Rejoice the Fallen trick also appears to work as advertised if you have another couple of dozen miracle dice for saves and the bonus attack. Hopefully your opponent doesn't shoot the triumph or use any save-bypassing weapons, or shoot at them from more than 18" away, or with cheap infantry.
Solid combo. Though if you have that many miracle dice to hand you might be in a spot of trouble elsewhere :p
Lammia wrote: They know the game, the armies they play and are pretty good at predicting the meta. But they get rules wrong or don't see winning lists before they happen too. But they get things wrong too. Sisters being a army they get details wrong frequently.
Okay, so what specific Sisters details have they gotten wrong in their index preview?
In this specific Index, none I've seen.
Though you have to be on the WarCom Hopium IV to write this from the Goonhammer review:
The Dialogus is just bananas, and looks like an auto include in any Retributor unit, slow roll saves on the non multi-melta toting model until it dies (for that sweet +1 to hit) and then burn miracle dice saving the rest (if needed), because wow, this is gonna be crazy. Oh and then once a model dies, feel free to use Rejoice the Fallen, to immediately shoot back with that Retributor unit. Ugh, this is just so wrong.
But when you read 'first turn of the Game' and say it's 'the first every turn' enough times that people actually play it that way, you actually become a rules problem for the game.
The Dialogus with Triumph is actually nasty. As many miracle dice as you have are suddenly 6s and that unit you needed dead is now dead.
It's got potentual to maybe pop out and delete something valuable, midgame. But that's not what they are suggesting, they are suggesting there is a way to do real damage with a 5 woman T3 unit while it's being shot.
The idea that you can get just one model killed is a best case scenario idea, but even the baseline of multimedia plus dialogus plus triumph is nasty and can come online as early as turn 2 if you suicide some cheap units to generate miracle dice.
I also think it's interesting that the entire army can now use miracle dice- even Arcoflagellants, Penitent Engines, etc.
I will be curious to see what the other five Sisters detachments look like when the Codex drops. It is possible that some of the places that look like the synergy is slightly off might look less that way in a different detachment.
Lammia wrote: They know the game, the armies they play and are pretty good at predicting the meta. But they get rules wrong or don't see winning lists before they happen too. But they get things wrong too. Sisters being a army they get details wrong frequently.
Okay, so what specific Sisters details have they gotten wrong in their index preview?
In this specific Index, none I've seen.
Though you have to be on the WarCom Hopium IV to write this from the Goonhammer review:
The Dialogus is just bananas, and looks like an auto include in any Retributor unit, slow roll saves on the non multi-melta toting model until it dies (for that sweet +1 to hit) and then burn miracle dice saving the rest (if needed), because wow, this is gonna be crazy. Oh and then once a model dies, feel free to use Rejoice the Fallen, to immediately shoot back with that Retributor unit. Ugh, this is just so wrong.
But when you read 'first turn of the Game' and say it's 'the first every turn' enough times that people actually play it that way, you actually become a rules problem for the game.
The Dialogus with Triumph is actually nasty. As many miracle dice as you have are suddenly 6s and that unit you needed dead is now dead.
It's got potentual to maybe pop out and delete something valuable, midgame. But that's not what they are suggesting, they are suggesting there is a way to do real damage with a 5 woman T3 unit while it's being shot.
The idea that you can get just one model killed is a best case scenario idea, but even the baseline of multimedia plus dialogus plus triumph is nasty and can come online as early as turn 2 if you suicide some cheap units to generate miracle dice.
What cheap units?
Death cult assassins? Crusaders? Arcos? Pengines? Mortifiers? Priests inside said units? Sisters are spoiled for choices when it comes to cheap units to martyrize.
Lammia wrote: Though you have to be on the WarCom Hopium IV to write this from the Goonhammer review:
I mean strictly speaking they are not wrong. If you have an undamaged retributor squad with a dialogus standing within 6" of the triumph and fifteen of your units have just been wiped off the board you can replace all of their multimelta attack, wound, and damage dice with 6s.
The Rejoice the Fallen trick also appears to work as advertised if you have another couple of dozen miracle dice for saves and the bonus attack. Hopefully your opponent doesn't shoot the triumph or use any save-bypassing weapons, or shoot at them from more than 18" away, or with cheap infantry.
Solid combo. Though if you have that many miracle dice to hand you might be in a spot of trouble elsewhere :p
It was a specific snark at the general tone of the 'review'.
Lammia wrote: They know the game, the armies they play and are pretty good at predicting the meta. But they get rules wrong or don't see winning lists before they happen too. But they get things wrong too. Sisters being a army they get details wrong frequently.
Okay, so what specific Sisters details have they gotten wrong in their index preview?
In this specific Index, none I've seen.
Though you have to be on the WarCom Hopium IV to write this from the Goonhammer review:
The Dialogus is just bananas, and looks like an auto include in any Retributor unit, slow roll saves on the non multi-melta toting model until it dies (for that sweet +1 to hit) and then burn miracle dice saving the rest (if needed), because wow, this is gonna be crazy. Oh and then once a model dies, feel free to use Rejoice the Fallen, to immediately shoot back with that Retributor unit. Ugh, this is just so wrong.
But when you read 'first turn of the Game' and say it's 'the first every turn' enough times that people actually play it that way, you actually become a rules problem for the game.
The Dialogus with Triumph is actually nasty. As many miracle dice as you have are suddenly 6s and that unit you needed dead is now dead.
It's got potentual to maybe pop out and delete something valuable, midgame. But that's not what they are suggesting, they are suggesting there is a way to do real damage with a 5 woman T3 unit while it's being shot.
The idea that you can get just one model killed is a best case scenario idea, but even the baseline of multimedia plus dialogus plus triumph is nasty and can come online as early as turn 2 if you suicide some cheap units to generate miracle dice.
What cheap units?
Take whatever character ends up cheapest, give them the enhancement that generates d3 miracle dice when they die, fire them at the enemy and spend a CP so the enemy has to kill them, pocket the 1+d3 miracle dice you just gained.
Lammia wrote: They know the game, the armies they play and are pretty good at predicting the meta. But they get rules wrong or don't see winning lists before they happen too. But they get things wrong too. Sisters being a army they get details wrong frequently.
Okay, so what specific Sisters details have they gotten wrong in their index preview?
In this specific Index, none I've seen.
Though you have to be on the WarCom Hopium IV to write this from the Goonhammer review:
The Dialogus is just bananas, and looks like an auto include in any Retributor unit, slow roll saves on the non multi-melta toting model until it dies (for that sweet +1 to hit) and then burn miracle dice saving the rest (if needed), because wow, this is gonna be crazy. Oh and then once a model dies, feel free to use Rejoice the Fallen, to immediately shoot back with that Retributor unit. Ugh, this is just so wrong.
But when you read 'first turn of the Game' and say it's 'the first every turn' enough times that people actually play it that way, you actually become a rules problem for the game.
The Dialogus with Triumph is actually nasty. As many miracle dice as you have are suddenly 6s and that unit you needed dead is now dead.
It's got potentual to maybe pop out and delete something valuable, midgame. But that's not what they are suggesting, they are suggesting there is a way to do real damage with a 5 woman T3 unit while it's being shot.
The idea that you can get just one model killed is a best case scenario idea, but even the baseline of multimedia plus dialogus plus triumph is nasty and can come online as early as turn 2 if you suicide some cheap units to generate miracle dice.
What cheap units?
Death cult assassins? Crusaders? Arcos? Pengines? Mortifiers? Priests inside said units? Sisters are spoiled for choices when it comes to cheap units to martyrize.
Ok, how will you ensure they get shot to feed you and not, you know units that actually do something. (I'm sorry, I'm adding conditions here)
BertBert wrote: So the strat is to bring several squads of 2 crusaders for 20 points each and have them suicide to fuel our damage dealers with miracle dice?
No. No one is going to waste their time shooting them.
BertBert wrote: So the strat is to bring several squads of 2 crusaders for 20 points each and have them suicide to fuel our damage dealers with miracle dice?
No. No one is going to waste their time shooting them.
Also, what damage dealers?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/16 14:51:15
BertBert wrote: So the strat is to bring three squads of 2 crusaders for 60 points and have them suicide to fuel our damage dealers with miracle dice?
If you don't want to be chancing 5+ for meltagun wounds you need one sacrifice and 35pts for the dialogus dice, and then three more squads per weapon.
A single retributor squad, including cherub benefits, would be 165pts base plus 380pts of dead crusaders - so 545 points for three turns of automatic wounds with four multimeltas.
Rolls to hit, damage, saves, etc still required as normal.
Statistically you'd shave a few points off that to account for the fact that the dialogus sacrifice unit might roll a 5+ on it's own.
I do think Retributors are about where they should be. Eradicators might need a small bump, but they have half the shots, less access to buffs, and no MD.
( this is disregarding flamer and HB Rets since the value on those is questionable )
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/16 16:30:00
AtoMaki wrote: Not really because SM Eradicators are 95.
Even if they weren't, 4 devastators with cover ignoring lascannons are still 10 points cheaper than 4 multimelta retributors.
You can get the better part of three devastator squads for the same points as two retributor squads with the dialogus, and you'd be picking poorly from the marine codex if you did.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/06/16 16:32:39
Sylvaneth A forest
III Legion 5000pts
XIII Legion 9000pts
Hive Fleet Khadrim 5000pts
Kabal of the Torn Lotus .4000pts
Coalition of neo Sacea 5000pts
14000 points 