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Have a game this weekend, going to try a few things:



There are a few things i noticed, i want to try the buggy vs infantary, and defkopta MW ability, seems really nice to clear high model count, no limits on it.

I want to compare 10nobz vs 5nobz.

I don't expect much from ghaz, but i need something to threaten maybe up the mid field.. i am not sure he will be worth a while so i don't intend on doing much with him or the meganobz. Distractionfex?

No i don't have trucks, i am not some bad moons git..

Anyway suppose it's a green tide variant.

Can the killrig transport non snaggaz though?

Think I'll be better of with a Ard cased BW for the nobz

Hmm nah it can't but 10man snaggaz with boss is a really good investment. Also the rig can buff their S or his own. Overall it's decent for 220pts.

I just don't have the models.. I could proxy but i want to try the boy brick, i am still unsure how good it is.

Nobz on wagon? it's nice, but i would rather put them on a truck, it's just an expensive transport, and now on explosion only thing that happens is battleshock and MW so a truck would be enough for me.

Plus Jidmah pointed a good combo of follow me ladz and ere we go, you get as much move as a truck with nobz so you can shave 50pts for something else

Also you give more VP for wagon.

Guess it's down to preference, if used a wagon i would put ghaz and drop the meganobz since ghaz is already too expensive

I don’t like the wagons or other big vehicles this edition because some armies have zero issues obliterating them like nothing… and you just bleed bring it down with them.

The gargantuan squig is the only unit thats big enough and ironically doesn’t bleed a ton of vp.

Trukks aren’t really hard to blow up either but they do take more effort then they should for thier points.

 Scactha wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:
For sure it's still is useful. Personally just not something I'm really interested in taking right now since it's unreliable to work. If we get access to modifiers in our dex than I'll definitely consider it.

Wurrboy is the only Ld-Mod in Orks I´ve found. But he´s effecting things a tad oddly. "Start of opp Command".

In general I find the moral rules really good. One match I chopped up half a mob of Chaos Cultists and they failed the test and lost the objective despite a bunch of termies also standing on the objective. It felt tactically right at the moment and it turned out correct. This is good and broadens the game imo.

Yeah the battleshock is definitely improvement. And refreshing to even have to worry about it with marines

So happy that effect is interesting, matters and there's no army that's immune to it. Nids are closest to being immune with 3d6 check under synapse but only under synapse and you can still fail especially as values aren't that good generally...

 flaming tadpole wrote:

halkom1 wrote:
Has anyone tried out the Shokk attack gun yet?

I’m kinda meh on it. Right now due to the way it’s worded pretty much all out of phase battleshock tests seem pretty weak. If they fail the test on your turn it isn’t carrying over to theirs so they can still cap objectives. I think I’d take it against specific armies like being able to deny a necron unit from using an out of phase reanimation could be the difference maker in finishing off a squad, but I don’t think it’d make the cut if I was taking it to a tourney.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
You are right I missed the instead part. Still that’s 6mw per hit.

oh ya for sure he still puts in that work.

need to take an objective for a secondary but cant possibly kill the unit off the obj?

battleshock gives them OC 0

unit unchargeable because it has a fight first strat? battleshock turns that off.

is forcing BS reliable? nope. But it can have value on your turn.

gungo wrote:
I don’t like the wagons or other big vehicles this edition because some armies have zero issues obliterating them like nothing… and you just bleed bring it down with them.

The gargantuan squig is the only unit thats big enough and ironically doesn’t bleed a ton of vp.

Trukks aren’t really hard to blow up either but they do take more effort then they should for thier points.

It kind of comes down to redundancy, as it always does with Orks.

Trukks are obnoxious to destroy for their points cost; they need juuust enough firepower that they aren't trivial. Fortunately you can take loads of them and just cram them down your opponents throat and your units are going to get there.

Battlewagons are decently tough with an Ard Case, bit will die to dedicated AT fire. You either need more than one, or something else that's going to draw similar firepower like a Kill Rig. Other than that, hold on to your butts and hope at least one gets where it needs to be. You could also put something in there that's decently fast and decently durable so that they don't care when the wagon blows up, like Snaggas, Boys or Nobs.

I think MANz in a wagon might be a trap unless you take more than one wagon to attract some of the AT shooting. It's very expensive in terms of points and MANz are slow and not really durable enough to walk if the wagon blows up turn one.

The Gargantuan Squiggoth is enough of a distraction that it should draw most AT fire, whilst being durable enough to still make it to something and smack it about. Ultimately if they commit to killing the Squiggoth all of your other vehicles will go more or less ignored.

terennNash wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:

halkom1 wrote:
Has anyone tried out the Shokk attack gun yet?

I’m kinda meh on it. Right now due to the way it’s worded pretty much all out of phase battleshock tests seem pretty weak. If they fail the test on your turn it isn’t carrying over to theirs so they can still cap objectives. I think I’d take it against specific armies like being able to deny a necron unit from using an out of phase reanimation could be the difference maker in finishing off a squad, but I don’t think it’d make the cut if I was taking it to a tourney.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
You are right I missed the instead part. Still that’s 6mw per hit.

oh ya for sure he still puts in that work.

need to take an objective for a secondary but cant possibly kill the unit off the obj?

battleshock gives them OC 0

unit unchargeable because it has a fight first strat? battleshock turns that off.

is forcing BS reliable? nope. But it can have value on your turn.

Forcing BS is about only way you can reliably kill off 20 necron warriors without doing like 40+ damage in single attack.

And of course whole bunch of secondaries becomes suddenly easier.

Wish the Kombi-weapons weren't trash. Would love to bring 3x MSU MANZ for 195 points in reserves with Scorchas.

The more i look into it, the worst MANZ look as a profile..

Haven't seen a report where they been meaningful..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

tneva82 wrote:

terennNash wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:

halkom1 wrote:
Has anyone tried out the Shokk attack gun yet?

I’m kinda meh on it. Right now due to the way it’s worded pretty much all out of phase battleshock tests seem pretty weak. If they fail the test on your turn it isn’t carrying over to theirs so they can still cap objectives. I think I’d take it against specific armies like being able to deny a necron unit from using an out of phase reanimation could be the difference maker in finishing off a squad, but I don’t think it’d make the cut if I was taking it to a tourney.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

gungo wrote:
You are right I missed the instead part. Still that’s 6mw per hit.

oh ya for sure he still puts in that work.

need to take an objective for a secondary but cant possibly kill the unit off the obj?

battleshock gives them OC 0

unit unchargeable because it has a fight first strat? battleshock turns that off.

is forcing BS reliable? nope. But it can have value on your turn.

Forcing BS is about only way you can reliably kill off 20 necron warriors without doing like 40+ damage in single attack.

And of course whole bunch of secondaries becomes suddenly easier.

They live and die on their characters a lot, use epic challenge strat a lot on your characters and snipe them when ever you can, it will make your life a lot easier.

Can someone target Ghaz with precision when he has makari around?

Tittliewinks22 wrote:
Wish the Kombi-weapons weren't trash. Would love to bring 3x MSU MANZ for 195 points in reserves with Scorchas.

Yeah, it's bad that they ported over the boring and frankly garbage combi-weapon rules that SM have over to Orks. It's only vaguely passable for them because they have high BS and Oath of Moment rerolls out the wazoo. For us with low BS, low rate of fire and on very slow platforms, it's pretty dumb, especially since we only had rokkit launchas or skorchas.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:
Can someone target Ghaz with precision when he has makari around?

Yes. As far as I know Makari doesn't stop him from being allocated wounds given to him via Precision.

Correct. Precision allows attacker being able to designate specific character model in attached unit. While Makari is character also the 2 are separate models and precision allows attacker selecting specific character model. Not character unit.

Some 10th tourney results: https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-termination-of-9th-edition-dawn-of-10th/

Looooot of Eldar and Knights. One Ork player went 4-1 for 7th place, but very few Orks overall.

Need to register for an account to see his list, but this was the summary: Highly aggro Orky goodness, taking Ghaz at the head of an array of Kommandos, Stormboyz and Squighogs, with two loaded Kill Rigs forming a central anchor

Just about everyone took stormboyz, which surprised me a bit.

 JohnU wrote:
Some 10th tourney results: https://www.goonhammer.com/competitive-termination-of-9th-edition-dawn-of-10th/

Looooot of Eldar and Knights. One Ork player went 4-1 for 7th place, but very few Orks overall.

Need to register for an account to see his list, but this was the summary: Highly aggro Orky goodness, taking Ghaz at the head of an array of Kommandos, Stormboyz and Squighogs, with two loaded Kill Rigs forming a central anchor

Just about everyone took stormboyz, which surprised me a bit.

stormboyz are super good at mission play. They're the perfect unit for threatening that cheap chaff unit your opponent has on their home obj with fly and permanent adv/charge and you can hide them pretty easily as 5 mans. 3x5 at 195pts is a pretty good bargain.

Has anyone at all played green tide? I was curious if anyone has actually run a ridiculous footboy list, or even a snagga on feet list. Better yet, a combination of the two.

They really aren't that expensive on a per model basis considering their durability only got better whereas their cost stayed quite similar.

Would they have a chance in the infantry blob target saturation game? I feel like people just went in on trukks.

I like the theory of a snagga horde with some supporting boy blobs swarming objectives and derping all over the place, while melta lancecannons fart uselessly into the green tide.

 TedNugent wrote:
Has anyone at all played green tide? I was curious if anyone has actually run a ridiculous footboy list, or even a snagga on feet list. Better yet, a combination of the two.

They really aren't that expensive on a per model basis considering their durability only got better whereas their cost stayed quite similar.

Would they have a chance in the infantry blob target saturation game? I feel like people just went in on trukks.

I like the theory of a snagga horde with some supporting boy blobs swarming objectives and derping all over the place, while melta lancecannons fart uselessly into the green tide.

I think the main problem is that you can only take 120 boyz max, only 3 of which can have Warbosses and you aren't that fast even with one unit having Follow Me Ladz. I guess you can also have the Weirdboy if you want to try the Alpha/Beta Strike combo of Ere We Go strat, but fundamentally the damage output isn't there and I feel the lethality is still high enough in the game (and you can't really stack defenses that well, if you could overlap the KFF with the Painboy I think there would be more merit). You can definitely reserve a few but without built in rerolls they could just be sitting their on the turn they show up not really doing anything. I would be curious on how it does with Kommando/Stormboy support, but their damage output is still very similar so I think that that's why a lot of people haven't tuned into that style of list yet. (also Green Tide usually is a chore to play for most people).

yeah i think green tide is dead by design.
120boyz is almost half what people ran with proper green tides.
Theres also no innate reason to take a 20man squad of boyz unlike before where they either had mad morale boosts or extra attacks (or both) for having tons of models. So except the ones that can have a boss+something else its a wasted effort.

Sick, fw units were added to the app.

I third the notion of green tide being dead. Boyz are nothing but ablative wounds for characters, without much killing power outside of that. Flooding the board with units that are unable to threaten anything armored is not going to end in your favor.
10th has taken multiple measures that a single weapon profile will never be effective against all possible targets, and that includes the PK and the choppa. You can no longer crush elite infantry or vehicles with weight of attacks and tank can neither be tarpitted nor seriously damaged even if you should get most of your models in fighting range.

Spamming boyz is as dead as it can be. If you want to run an all-infantry list you need to bring different units to cover all your bases, otherwise you eventually will be stuck with your scissors fighting rocks.

In general, this is a good thing. Green tide being viable has always been a symptom of badly written ork codices, because it essentially declares that every other unit in the codex is worse than boyz.

I think if you want to run a Green Tide you're forced into spamming Snagga Boys, Nobs and Flash Gits (all with their supporting characters) if you want to stand any hope of actually doing damage when/if you get across the board.

So essentially all of your units (barring flash gits) are delivery systems for characters, which is great in the sense that you'd go back to the old tried and tested method of the hidden PK from editions past, but that isn't going to cut it any more.

And that's also not a terribly big horde...

Is there a clear winner between kommandos and stormboyz? What roles should each be fulfilling if I field both? Which of the kommando options are worth taking?

My son bought me the kommando kill team box (what delightful sculpts) and i also have some kit bashed ones that include a big shoota and a burna.

Thanks!

Coh Magnussen wrote:
Is there a clear winner between kommandos and stormboyz? What roles should each be fulfilling if I field both? Which of the kommando options are worth taking?

My son bought me the kommando kill team box (what delightful sculpts) and i also have some kit bashed ones that include a big shoota and a burna.

Thanks!

I'd say stormboys are the clear winner just for the fact they can still be in 5 mans but kommandos are still a solid choice. Snikrot is considerably better than he was in 9th so I'd say he's an auto include if your gonna run them. I don't have the damage spreadsheet up but I believe the optimal loadout was basically all choppas plus the breacha ram and rokkit launcha for 2 models. I think the burna was fairly close to the same so if you already have one modeled with it might as well throw it in too.

If I'm running Zagstruk, does it make more sense to beef up his mob to 10 for a deepstrike charge, or run 2x5?

Oh ya for sure would go for a 10 man if your adding zaggy boy.

 Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah i think green tide is dead by design.
120boyz is almost half what people ran with proper green tides.
Theres also no innate reason to take a 20man squad of boyz unlike before where they either had mad morale boosts or extra attacks (or both) for having tons of models. So except the ones that can have a boss+something else its a wasted effort.

I don't think that there is any rule precluding you from taking, say, 6 squads of Beastsnaggas and 6 squads of Boyz.

It just says six squads of battleline, and both of them are battleline.

So the commentary of 120 models max doesn't make sense to me. Especially if you consider Gretchin.

The alternate commentary of "oh no, they're going to snipe my characters" also doesn't make sense, as I said greentide, not herohammer. It's not like I'm not seeing lists with characters in damn near every squadron. No, I'm talking about throwing a big green wall of nothing but da boyz.

And what I asked was, has anyone tried it yet, not has anyone poopoo'd it on a forum at first glance without even bothering to give it a spin first.

How many bodies could you fit on the table if you really tried? 100 boyz is what, 850 points? 120 for 1020 points. 20 beast snaggas is 210? So, conservatively, you could field, say, 200 bodies on the table at 2000 with at least 100 points left over for your mandatory character just for giggles. 200 T5 5+ models. Let me put it this way, how would you guys build an ork list to counter that? Would your lists be able to deal with it? Alternatively, you could field 6 squads of snaggas for 1260, each with T5/5+/6+++. Can armies still reliably kill 2-3 squads a turn this edition?

 TedNugent wrote:

 Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah i think green tide is dead by design.
120boyz is almost half what people ran with proper green tides.
Theres also no innate reason to take a 20man squad of boyz unlike before where they either had mad morale boosts or extra attacks (or both) for having tons of models. So except the ones that can have a boss+something else its a wasted effort.

I don't think that there is any rule precluding you from taking, say, 6 squads of Beastsnaggas and 6 squads of Boyz.

It just says six squads of battleline, and both of them are battleline.

So the commentary of 120 models max doesn't make sense to me. Especially if you consider Gretchin.

The alternate commentary of "oh no, they're going to snipe my characters" also doesn't make sense, as I said greentide, not herohammer. It's not like I'm not seeing lists with characters in damn near every squadron. No, I'm talking about throwing a big green wall of nothing but da boyz.

And what I asked was, has anyone tried it yet, not has anyone poopoo'd it on a forum at first glance without even bothering to give it a spin first.

How many bodies could you fit on the table if you really tried? 100 boyz is what, 850 points? 120 for 1020 points. 20 beast snaggas is 210? So, conservatively, you could field, say, 200 bodies on the table at 2000 with at least 100 points left over for your mandatory character just for giggles. 200 T5 5+ models. Let me put it this way, how would you guys build an ork list to counter that? Would your lists be able to deal with it? Alternatively, you could field 6 squads of snaggas for 1260, each with T5/5+/6+++. Can armies still reliably kill 2-3 squads a turn this edition?

You can get 120 Boys and 80 Snagga Boys for 1860 points.

The issue you have isnt getting bodies onto the table, it's that of you just go for numbers then you're clogging up the board without really being able to actually kill much of anything.

That 200 Boys I outlined above is great for swarming the board, but it's completely stalled out by anything T10 or higher.

The reason we've immediately gone against the idea of true Green Tide is that it doesn't do any damage to vehicles, and when you start taking the characters that can make those units do something (even if the unit is just a character delivery system), you've quartered the amount of Orks on the board for not a great deal of benefit.

We're better off playing Mechanised Hero Hammer, or going down the Orkstodes route of loading up on the more "elite" units that can actually dish out damage.

I tried a lists which was mostly boyz at 1k points with some character support. I had zero chance at winning that game, for the reasons I outlined before, and I'm very confident the problem becomes worse at 2k points.

It doesn't really matter how many models you can flood the board with if you get roadblocked by units that you just can't kill. Especially if those units the same or less than 20 boyz.

I'm also very confident that my current list could handle a tide, since squigboys essentially make one unit disappear per turn on their own and nobz with attached warboss aren't far behind. Since both can have -1 to wound, my losses would be minimal.
Meanwhile, a unit of 3 MANz with KFF mek can pretty much stop a unit of choppa boyz dead in their tracks all day long and every single thump gun and rokkit gets 4 extra attacks against your mobs.

The GSC player who tried to run a re-animating horde against me (100+ models@1k points) was tabled by turn 3.

Playing max beastsnagga boyz might work out, boyz without characters are just not worth bringing.

Even then I think Snagga Boys are best used as a Beastboss delivery system.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
The reason we've immediately gone against the idea of true Green Tide is that it doesn't do any damage to vehicles, and when you start taking the characters that can make those units do something (even if the unit is just a character delivery system), you've quartered the amount of Orks on the board for not a great deal of benefit.

Not just vehicles - IMO there are the following defensive "weight classes" in 10th edition:

1) Light infantry - gretchin, kultists, pox walkers, infantry squads, guardians. You have little requirements in regards to the quality of attacks here, more is better.
2) Medium infantry - marines, flash gits, sisters, beastsnagga boyz, aspects. They have multiple layers of defense and enough armor to benefit from cover. You need decent strength, devastating wounds or amor penetration to kill them efficiently. Weight of low quality attacks can hurt, but not wipe them.
3) Heavy infantry - terminators, MANz, custodes, bullgryns. Usually good toughness, armor and invuls backed up by high wound counts and defensive abilities, characters or stratagems. You need high quality guns to kill them, with good number of shots. They pretty much shrug off low quality attacks, even in high numbers and dedicated anti-tank guns often aren't sufficient to kill them because the low number of shots bounces of the invuls.
4) Mounted/Beasts/light vehicles - bikes, squighogs, spawn, buggies. Durable units similar to medium infantry, but with more wounds, but below the magic T8 threshold. Other than medium infantry, you need high damage weapons to kill them efficiently.
5) Vehicles - trukks, speeders, rhinos, guard artillery. Good armor, wounds and toughness of 8-10, but no further noteworthy defensive layers. Weight of attacks will hurt them, but as these models tend to be cheap there is no way to kill them efficiently without high quality weapons.
6) Monsters/Walkers - dreads, hellbrutes, daemon princes, primarchs, daemon engines. They have great defensive profiles, invuls, defensive abilities but are usually limited to T9 or 10 and around 10 wounds. In theory they could be drowned in attacks, but almost all of them hit hard, you take major losses when trying. PKs can usually take them down during the Waaagh!
7) Tanks/super-heavies - LRBT, battlewagon with 'ard case, morkanaut, landraiders. Unless you can ignore at least one layer of their durability (toughness or armor or high wound counts), don't bother shooting them.
Of course, there are some oddballs which fit nowhere, but the absolute majority of models fit into one of these classes.

Taking those "classes" and comparing them to a tide's toolbox:
Boyz with choppas: Good against 1), average against 2) and 4), bad against everything else
Beastsnagga boyz: Good against 1) 2) and 5), average against 4) and 6), bad against 3) and 7)
Warboss with PK: Good against 2), 4) and 5), average against 1), 6), bad against 3) and 7)
Rokkits: Good against 4) and 5), average against 6) and 2), bad against everything else.

Essentially, by going all in with model skew, you leave yourself struggling with monsters and multi-wound models while also having no solution to both heavy infantry and tanks. With pile-in drifts being a thing of the past, you can be easily held off objectives by such models.
You will inevitable score some wins with such a tactic because people are used to moving away from orks. But once they find out that you have no teeth, you are easily countered.