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I've found Lootas to be really hit and miss. Sometimes they delete units and sometimes they just don't do anything.

Still, they're solid for a cheap unit that you can stick on a backfield objective and usually make a meaningful contribution to your offensive output.

I reach the same conclusion using crunch, i am not looking for a damage dealer but something to threaten by range which is kind of reliable.

Lootas seem to be cheap enough although you have to follow the guidelines for them to be worth it, only shoot at stuff on point.

Being cheap means it's redundant if opponent elects to fire at them. But the numbers are not great, the lack of shoots is still the bigger issue. Probably prefer to bring mek guns for the same price


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I guess i will test it out. Can't be worst then the previous buggies i hope, worst case they will eat some shooting.

Lootas have been on my list of units to buy and try forever, maybe this is the edition I finally field some.

Does anyone on here use reserves in any significant quantity as a strategy? Beyond just the obvious units like koptas I mean.
I’m thinking that part of the reason I get shot off the board is I put almost all my units on the table T1 giving my opponent their choice of targets to match with their units which are most tailored to annihilate me.
It feels like there’s a strategy wherein you dictate what gets shot off the board each round by successively releasing different types of units and maybe forcing them to waste entire shooting rounds focusing on chaff. Is this a thing?

 Gulgog TufToof wrote:
Lootas have been on my list of units to buy and try forever, maybe this is the edition I finally field some.

Does anyone on here use reserves in any significant quantity as a strategy? Beyond just the obvious units like koptas I mean.
I’m thinking that part of the reason I get shot off the board is I put almost all my units on the table T1 giving my opponent their choice of targets to match with their units which are most tailored to annihilate me.
It feels like there’s a strategy wherein you dictate what gets shot off the board each round by successively releasing different types of units and maybe forcing them to waste entire shooting rounds focusing on chaff. Is this a thing?

I tend to reserve my Deff Dread and my Squiggoth full of Nobz. They serve as a really nice mid/late game hammer to clean up after my Beastbosses and Squighogs have ran out of steam. They also get to come on with most of their targets in range of a potential charge, and without being shot to pieces.

I sometimes reserves my Deffkoptas, but it's really dependent on whether or not I want to be scoring early, or scoring late. More often than not they're better off scoring points early.

The issue with reserves is that without innately having deep strike, you can only fit so much into reserves. It's a balancing act, as not only are your units on the board going to have more firepower concentrated on them, they're also going to be able to dish out much less damage as there's fewer units. Your units coming out of reserves need to be able to swing the game in your favour the moment they hit the table, but without crippling yourself by putting them in reserves.

I constantly lose to a friend of mine who plays Space Marines. I think we are at 7:1 as it stands now and usually play 2000pts games.
I am a new player, so I definitely make lots of gameplay mistakes.
I'd still really appreciate some input on how to best play against SM and what units work well/suck vs them.
He usually plays 2x5 Flamethrowers, 2 Dreadnoughts, a brick of Agressors with 2 characters that give Lethal Hits & Sustained Hits on 5s (they shred everything I have), a predator and a Landraider with some fight first sword dudes, terminators and heavy intercessors.
I would be really appreciative of any help.

Yalaka wrote:
I constantly lose to a friend of mine who plays Space Marines. I think we are at 7:1 as it stands now and usually play 2000pts games.
I am a new player, so I definitely make lots of gameplay mistakes.
I'd still really appreciate some input on how to best play against SM and what units work well/suck vs them.
He usually plays 2x5 Flamethrowers, 2 Dreadnoughts, a brick of Agressors with 2 characters that give Lethal Hits & Sustained Hits on 5s (they shred everything I have), a predator and a Landraider with some fight first sword dudes, terminators and heavy intercessors.
I would be really appreciative of any help.

What is your current list, what models do you have immediate access to to change your list (if needed), and how much are you able/willing to spend on more minis if needed?

Thanks for the reply.

Models I have include:

Ghazkull
Mozrog
BB on Squigosaur
2x Beastboss
2x Warboss
2x Nob on Smashasquig
Weirdboy
Big Mek in MA
Big Mek with SAG
Nob with Banner
Painboy

20 Boyz
20 Beastsnaggas

10 Nobz
5 Nobz in MA
2 Trukks
Battlewagon
Killrig
4 Grot Tanks
20 Gretchin
10 Kommandos
6 Squighog Boyz
5 Stormboyz
3 Warbikers

I'd be able to buy a few more models (~100€).

The lists I ran varried. But always inlcuded most of the listed units (-10 gretchin, - kommandos, - painboy, - big mek with SAG, - killrig). Let me know if you need any additional information. I didnt want to paste 2 lists, because the message looked really long.

there is a lot of stuff in your list that needs to be droped. I can give you a list that might handle SM but chances are you might just still lose since you might not understand it.




Before you go out your way to play this list. My best advice is to ask us what are doing wrong and describe your turn. Your list does not help itself since it does not feel well balanced or with purpose in mind.

I also leave 300pts for you to think what to add. But this should be a solid base. Oh yeah weirdboyz are for scoring before you ask.

Lol, like I said: those are the models I own. Not the list I ran. How would that even work? Thanks for the advice though.

Luckily the list you posted doesnt seem difficult to understand. It just spams Trukks.

it's a push your units to opponent face, use the trucks to absorbe T1 alpha and position them in a way to give yourself T2 charges ideally you want beast boyz on vehicles, nobs work on everything unless highT. T2 waagghh and pick carefully what to charge and engage. Flashgitz are there to remove and deal with threats at range, only dismount them if you need the lethal. rest army scores with help of empty trucks.


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thats how currently most list's play at top. This is just a base you can fiddle. of the list of models you gave if your opponent is playing meta marines it's going to lose nothing that will help.


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yeah its spam trucks because that's what works shrug lol

Yalaka wrote:

Long list of units

There's a strong core in that list of units, essentially a handful of the characters aren't great choices and boys are very hit and miss.

If you're willing to spend money on units, then definitely pick up 10 Flash Gitz, Kaptin Badrukk, and another trukk. They're a very dangerous unit and will definitely earn their points back every game.

Otherwise, the competitive scene at the moment leans in very heavily on Nobz with Warbosses, fast scoring units like stormboys, and Beast Snagga units, all crammed into as many Trukks as you can fit in the list.

Youve got most of those units already, you just need to tweak some of the numbers.

yep afrodactyl advise is solid. My opinion is that your still learning the game, having a meta list does not matter. At the end of the day experience matters.

Practice practice practice. With more than one opponent. The key is to understand the game. Training matches on TTS helped me a lot.



Anyway, do you rememeber the discussion “FW models will be forgotten”? Well, last reveal revealed some time unavailable Taurus Venator. Great IG model from the same times as out Mega Dreads, Big Trukks or Kill Krushas.

Alright guys, thanks for the help.

I am aware that most of my issues stem from lack of experience and gameplay mistakes. I was just wondering what models in my lists make a bad situation even worse.

I watched a lot of deployment videos recently, which should help out a lot I hope. I am also struggeling with moving up to the midfield and playing Round 1. Do you have any suggestions for must-watch video guides etc? I want to work on my subpar gameplay, but I am struggeling to find the ressources/ realize what parts need the most improvement.

TTS training matches sound like an intersting option Tomsug, thanks.

There are plenty of in youtube, but i would say check out art of war ones, their the top of the top.

After that you can check tacticaltortoise, tabletop tatics, dice check, play on tabletop, tabletop titans....

But if your issue is deploy T1 here's some tips:
1. terrain, always make sure there is enough terrain, terrain with LOS makes or breaks shooting armies, auto loss if too few pieces, aim for something like 9-10
2. ask your opponent, this is a social game, things to look for, weapon rages of 36' or more, lots of shoot's combined with ap -2 or ignore cover keywords high damage
3. Identify threats, some models are imposing and impressive but their not the real damage dealer or important pieces for the game, it's import to recognise the pieces that will threaten you the most(this is match dependent and requires some experience, don't beat yourself about it) on space marines tends to be plasma marines, termies etc.
4. hide your stuff T1, this is critical since it forces your opponent out of position

but this is just some tips, there is also pre-measure and your strats so you know what you can and can't do.

 Tomsug wrote:
Practice practice practice. With more than one opponent. The key is to understand the game. Training matches on TTS helped me a lot.



Anyway, do you rememeber the discussion “FW models will be forgotten”? Well, last reveal revealed some time unavailable Taurus Venator. Great IG model from the same times as out Mega Dreads, Big Trukks or Kill Krushas.

It’s necromunda only and looks vastly larger then the old fw one..

gungo wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Practice practice practice. With more than one opponent. The key is to understand the game. Training matches on TTS helped me a lot.



Anyway, do you rememeber the discussion “FW models will be forgotten”? Well, last reveal revealed some time unavailable Taurus Venator. Great IG model from the same times as out Mega Dreads, Big Trukks or Kill Krushas.

It’s necromunda only and looks vastly larger then the old fw one..

What's your point?

gungo wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Practice practice practice. With more than one opponent. The key is to understand the game. Training matches on TTS helped me a lot.



Anyway, do you rememeber the discussion “FW models will be forgotten”? Well, last reveal revealed some time unavailable Taurus Venator. Great IG model from the same times as out Mega Dreads, Big Trukks or Kill Krushas.

It’s necromunda only and looks vastly larger then the old fw one..

It's a Kustom Boosta Blasta, and the size looks perfect

ccs wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Practice practice practice. With more than one opponent. The key is to understand the game. Training matches on TTS helped me a lot.



Anyway, do you rememeber the discussion “FW models will be forgotten”? Well, last reveal revealed some time unavailable Taurus Venator. Great IG model from the same times as out Mega Dreads, Big Trukks or Kill Krushas.

It’s necromunda only and looks vastly larger then the old fw one..

What's your point?

Just saying it’s not the same game and isn’t usable by IG outside of legends. I have the old models and it’s not like this one is usable for me as much as I like the model.
Conversion material sure.

gungo wrote:

ccs wrote:

gungo wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Practice practice practice. With more than one opponent. The key is to understand the game. Training matches on TTS helped me a lot.



Anyway, do you rememeber the discussion “FW models will be forgotten”? Well, last reveal revealed some time unavailable Taurus Venator. Great IG model from the same times as out Mega Dreads, Big Trukks or Kill Krushas.

It’s necromunda only and looks vastly larger then the old fw one..

What's your point?

Just saying it’s not the same game and isn’t usable by IG outside of legends. I have the old models and it’s not like this one is usable for me as much as I like the model.
Conversion material sure.

Oh no, it's not from the same game..... No Guard player has ever used a model from another system. Or even (gasp!) another manufacturer!

But it's a different size than the old one! So? Scale creep is a thing. Even the basic Marine keeps growing.

It being Legends? Outside the tourney environment?Eh. If you refuse to use the rules GW gives, that's on you.

My point was - if they have a forms, guess they sell it to IG players sooner or later too.

My guess - with the new IG codex 3 months before the end of 10th or something like it

 Tomsug wrote:
My point was - if they have a forms, guess they sell it to IG players sooner or later too.

My guess - with the new IG codex 3 months before the end of 10th or something like it

I imagine the Tauros will be adopted as a Guard kit when their codex drops. Just change the crew to guardsmen and replace the stubber/whatever that other gun is for a heavy bolter/multilaser and it's a Guard unit.


Just to perk up the discussion a bit;
When we get our codex, we're likely to be getting retrains of things like Badrukk and Tankbustas as they clear out the resin minis.

Rather than what we would like to get as a brand new kit, what unit types/niche are we sorely lacking that could be covered by a new kit?

We could probably do with a proper fast-moving anti-tank unit. Similar to the role the Scrapjet and Dragsta used to fill when their guns could reliably kill/cripple vehicles. Our existing AT is generally melee based, and it would be nice to have some additional mobile AT threats that aren't Squighogs or Nobs in a trukk, and more AT with ranged capacity.

I say this, but hopefully they just fix Tankbustas as that would solve that niche if they're done properly.

Yeah, one thing our index rules currently lack is a good ranged anti-tank option, the closest to having something relatively consistent for us are Mek Gunz and those got jacked up in price and with cover so widely available, AP-2 really doesn't cut it against the hard targets. Rokkit launchas and KMB being capped at S9 makes it difficult for us to get through anything that isn't a basic transport. So having what you said, a fast ranged anti-tank unit would be cool, would be a good place to revisit the Zzap gun as the premier anti-tank weapon. I would probably also like to see a shooty Meganob variant where they're dual wielding upcharged KMB variants that have tellyportas built into them. Other than that, they could bring back the gunwagon but with a dedicated upgrade sprue that isn't just the milqetoast killkannon, give us a real big gun that is anti-elite infantry and another one that is dedicated to killing monsters/vehicles. Armoured Krumpany as an archetype is something we've lacked since FW stopped really making units for us.

Lootas honestly are also a missed opportunity to give them some variety, as the guns are variable enough that they could give them two weapons options, one that is currently auto-cannon like with S8 AP-1 2 damage (with more shots hopefully and not BS6+) and something single shot like S12 AP-2 D6+1 damage at BS4+.

I assume (Gork I hope so) that we'll receive a dakka focused detachment that gives us Sustained Hits 1 or Lethal Hits in shooting rather than close combat, and presumably strats that give us more consistent damage.

A proper gunwagon would be good. Either serious and just being a really big gun, or a bit zany like the head of a kustom Stompa strapped to a wagon chassis and zapping stuff with the eye laser.

 Afrodactyl wrote:
A proper gunwagon would be good. Either serious and just being a really big gun, or a bit zany like the head of a kustom Stompa strapped to a wagon chassis and zapping stuff with the eye laser.

Having proper Lifta-Droppa battlewagon in plastic would be rad to be honest, especially if there's options to overcharge it to deal devastating wounds.

Speedmob. Please!

 Tomsug wrote:
Speedmob. Please!

Make speed freeks great again!

I'm hoping for:
*a Dread mob for some serious walker spam.
*Vehicles equipped with huge flame throwers as well as meganobz with real flamerkombiweapons. Both because it makes sense for an army with abysmal BS but also for the arch-Arsonist. Come on, it's an awesome piece of lore. (Also 8" flamers on the Kustom Boosta Blasta, we deserve it)
*Playable tankbustas
*A shooting detachment because Bad Moonz as well as the War of Dakka. Also a piece of awesome lore.
*Playable airplanes, because who doesn't love the ork aircrafts?
*Return of the Bonebreaka (everybody likes a brick armed with just a deffrolla hurtling towards the enemy. Or maybe it's just my love for the brute ram ships from Battlefleet Gothic shining through?)
*Playable Ghazkull
*Twelve-man biker squads

That's not too much to ask for, is it?

I didn't realise that the KBB only has 6" flamers. WTF


In terms of detachments we already have the melee one, so if the Necron book is anything to use as a barometer we'll probably get a shooty one, a movement one, a toughness one and then two based around a handful of units (probably walkers and then maybe like Squigs or Meks or something).

 Afrodactyl wrote:
I didn't realise that the KBB only has 6" flamers. WTF


In terms of detachments we already have the melee one, so if the Necron book is anything to use as a barometer we'll probably get a shooty one, a movement one, a toughness one and then two based around a handful of units (probably walkers and then maybe like Squigs or Meks or something).

Yeah, here's hoping. I could see the movement one being divided between a deep strike focused/tellyportas detachment or a speed freeks detachment, one being a "bully boyz" detachment focused on Warbosses, Nobs, Meganobz and maybeee Flash Gitz, and another towards Beast Snaggas.

Either way, looking forward to more variety on enhancements and what changes are going to happen on the datasheets. Given that they've let the Cryptek with Canoptek cloak join wraiths, I'm hoping they let the Big Mek with KFF join Killa Kanz and possibly Deff Dreadz if they let them become one unit without splitting them.


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Since we saw one of the units for Admech get split into two, I doubt it would happen but what would make shoota boyz relevant in today's meta? I feel like they've been left behind with the arms race of 9th edition and the shoota has become increasingly useless, both in terms of offense and utility, as it lost the assault keyword and relevance as an anti-infantry weapon since the choppa got buffed while negative to hit modifiers ran all over the place. Would shoota boyz have to be their own datasheet to make them useful compared to choppa boyz? Or could the shoota be changed enough to actually be worth considering over choppas? Off the top of my head, they should be assault at the very least, with sustained hits 1 built in. maybe 3 shots base rather than rapid fire 1 (let's be real, most boyz units are not getting within 9" of an enemy unit to charge them). I could see their datasheet (if they were a separate unit from choppa boyz) having them ignore to hit modifiers as a "wall of dakka" if all of them shoot at the same unit. That or getting some bonus on shooting at enemy units on objectives.

The main deterrent from this happening I think is that the current monopose boyz kit has an uneven distribution of shootas and choppas in the same kit, which usually informs GW's unfortunate "No Models, No Rules" policy.