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Forceride wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
yea i forgot about that.

I still find them bad though, but as i said, maybe the codex does something for them.

If you place a Mek with them the price is suddenly 145 points for a unit i already found.. Questionable without a character in it, for the price of a 100 points.

I think the problem i have with Lootas is, anything they are designed to kill, i can just kill with either boyz or beast snagga boys or something else around the same price range.

Dunno mate, maybe your approaching this from an angle of looking for a busted combo. They look comparable to flashgitz, sure their not as good but also, they are a lot less expensive and don't need babysitting. We been complaining we don't have decent shooting and this looks as a good compromise, couple this with dreads, kans, mek guns a gorka or 2 and you got a pretty nice detach. Does not feel busted but looks interesting and fun to play.

Hey, maybe the issue is me that just want's some variety on my orks. Honestly salivating at that green tide, even though i do not have near enough to make a list, it looks like a hell of bricks can be made with warboss and painboy, that was my ork wish. Never ending wave of bodies to annoy and drown my opponent.

I also feel like big hunt detach is a missed opportunity, too much counter play... unless squighogs change drastically or cost comes down, their the first victims of the codex. Funny cause their some of newest models, i also find them cool.

Remains to be seen what will happen to the boss on squigsaur or Mozrog... It might be that they will go into the shelves. Ghaz is looking good but cost will dictate the end result.

Holy hell this ended up as a long rant. this was not the intention. If you dont read all this im not complaining at all . I need to trim some of the text down. Christ i hate it when this happens.

The Lootas though, hits on 6s, and if you want to actually hit on 5s, you need to have somehow survived standing out in the open for an entire round, on a boys save value. Most tournament have the majority of objectives behind some kind of cover so odds are, given how stationary lootas are, you wont be rerolling all your hit rolls, because your target is not visible, so you have to shoot something else.

Rerolling the entire roll when they are on an objective sounds great on paper, but on an immobile unit thats pretty easy to counter. Sure on those maps where there is an objective directly in the open with no cover to be had they will be really good. I just dont see that very often at tournaments.

If you have 10 dudes at 100 points, thats 16 deff gun shots (if you indeed fire from long distances so you dont get rapid fire) hitting on 6s rerolling 1s. Thats going to net you like 3-4 hits or something. Str 8 means wounds on 2s out of your 4 hits so you might miss wounding one out of 4. AP1 essentially means AP0 so space marines save that on 3s. You will possibly kill 1 space marine this way. Then depending on whether you go for suicide kustom mega blastas that will kill your spanners or plain rockets, you might kill 2 more space marines for a total of 3. Say you brought mega blastas you might kill a total of 4 or something. This isnt dedicated math just a rough sketch. And it dont seem that great to me.


It seems like, for what Lootas want to kill, there are other things in our rooster doing it better. To be fair, it annoys me that Lootas have strength 8, i wanted them to have strength 12 to be Las cannons. But they are not. That way at least they would be very different from Flash Gitz, which they currently are not. They are just out gunned, even point for point, by Flash Gitz.

My point simply is, that Lootas have been.. Not great, in 10th edition and have seen basically no spots on competitive lists, and unless some things change around them i doubt that Dread Mob will make any difference because you have to pay 45 extra points just to get the rule. Which makes them better, but also more expensive. I can easily be wrong about that prediction, be wrong about how much of an impact it is to have the dread mob rule for 45 extra points. But Lootas right now arent great, are they great when you pay 45 extra points for them? Or did you put them from bad, to just average?

Like, i dont think Mek Gunz are considered Grots Vehicles because, they lack the keyword. So if they dont get Grots Vehicle Keyword in the new codex, i would probably put my Mek to lead Mek Gunz, rather than lootas so that THEY can benefit from the Dread Mob rule. In the end, we can only put 3 Meks in to the army, so we gotta put them where it makes a difference.

Despite everything, i WILL be trying out Lootas with a Mek because i want to test out things for myself before putting it in the grave. But im not really impressed with 145 point lootas. And maybe Meks with Lootas really just add up all the other damage you will be dealing with the Dread Mob, making them good. Because of pure saturation fire.

Big Hunt seems to be low card. Absolutely agree. Too situational.

Last 3 detachements we havent see are the Speed Freaks, Bully Boyz and the first one… what was the name?

Dread Mob could be interesting. Depends on datasheets and price tags heavily of course. Could be great.

Green tide also makes sence.

Big Hunt do not…

Dear Mork and Gork, I was very kind nasty warboss, please, bring me the Speed freak rules that allows me to play the buggies and bikers again! Please, please please!

I'm remaining (maybe naively) optimistic about the Snagga detachment. Between Snagga Boys in trukks and the hogs, the bulk of the army should be great enough to limit movement based counter play. The Prey mechanic is situational, but how many lists are out there at the moment that aren't featuring a bunch of vehicles, monsters, or characters? These are all things we generally want to be getting rid of quickly anyway and the detachment rule helps that with the AP boost.

I am keen to find out more about the other detachments though, especially Bully Boyz.

Think of what you're losing for going for the hunt, though....

Perhaps the strategems which mention prey targets will provide significantly higher value for the formation.

But if there is a generalist detachment (even something like sustained hits 1 as it is currently) that is significant output, statistically .5 attacks average for every 3 attacks. It's literally 1/6 higher output for every close combat unit in the army, and against all targets, not just "prey."

I am more interested in the general horde detachment for that reason, on top of applying to any list without shoehorning.

And even speed waaagh already affects trukks, so anything in a truck will get the benefit, so nobs, meganobz, Boyz, snaggas, gits, burnas, whatever you like gets to ride in a truck with a 4++.

Your snagga boys in a truck wouldn't get that either compared to the other detachment.

What is a reroll to charge against a single target really going to get you in terms of mobility and guaranteed charge range? How are you going to reach that target on each side of the board?

What if your "prey" is in a corner, opposite the board from half your deployment?

I'll reach it the same way I reach out now, by moving hogs and trukks forward aggressively. The detachment ability will just mean that I don't have to burn the CP I'd be spending on Ere We Go to otherwise make sure that charge goes off.

The Snagga Boys are only in the trukk until they can charge something, so they aren't going to be in the trukk the whole game anyway.

And as far as where the prey is? I get to choose what the Prey is. I'm only choosing something on the opposite end of the board if I have no alternative. Plus, everything I'm running basically has a movement of at least 10", so mobility isn't an issue.

I don't mind losing out on 1 extra attack per 6, because I'm gaining AP against the thing I already really want dead because I've put Ork Oath of Moment on it. The AP is what Orks desperately need, we have plenty of attacks already (killsaw nobs excluded).

What we've seen of Hunt strats is MWs on the charge for mounted units with extra against Prey, and sustained hits in melee with crits on 5s against Prey.

Don't get me wrong the detachment rule isn't crazy powerful, but it is still strong. It's not a big deal for me if I try it out and it turns out that another detachment is better, because I can just change over. I'm just saying that insurance that you're going to absolutely pulp that vehicle, monster, or warlord that's causing me headaches is good.

I get where you're coming from, but I think you're focusing too much on potential negatives when we haven't got all of the rules yet. I'll gladly come back and tell you you were right if I do change over


:EDIT:
Some more leaks, courtesy of Auspex.

https://youtu.be/tcSkH6lsxwc?si=fMJk4klqyK6HJXrJ

New leaks!

… the lack of Speed Freak leaks is disturbing!

Beardragon, hopeful they open up the mek key word in other characters.

I am not against the math, i already tested them currently and it is as you say. But the added key word and range might push it over the edge. Flashgitz want to hit on 6 too, and inside a truck you get no rerolls. Their both swingy. Ones just have the keywords the other is missing. this might even the playing field and make lootas viable. Like you i am going to test it out.

Also flashgitz + Barduk +truck = 335pts

After looking at leaks, bully double waagh detach is looking amazing too.

I still remain unconvinced on big hunter, although leaks speak of good changes. Hoping they go down in points.

Big hunt looks much more tasty with the scout move etc. 9 riders big blob T1 something like 5” charge sounds brutal. Flipcoing tactics however, who goes first wins…

Just recalled shoota boys can also get mek? Maybe a resurgence of that weapon? About time frankly ...

Forceride wrote:
Beardragon, hopeful they open up the mek key word in other characters.

I am not against the math, i already tested them currently and it is as you say. But the added key word and range might push it over the edge. Flashgitz want to hit on 6 too, and inside a truck you get no rerolls. Their both swingy. Ones just have the keywords the other is missing. this might even the playing field and make lootas viable. Like you i am going to test it out.

Also flashgitz + Barduk +truck = 335pts

After looking at leaks, bully double waagh detach is looking amazing too.

I still remain unconvinced on big hunter, although leaks speak of good changes. Hoping they go down in points.

I wonder what happens to flash Gitz though with Badrukk being gone.

Maybe they just get a reroll on their own? maybe the unit stays the same?

No idea. I could see a purpose in Lootas in a dread mob over flash gitz if nothing is done at least. Given that flash gitz are only really amazing because of Badrukk, who now isnt there :/


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Forceride wrote:
Just recalled shoota boys can also get mek? Maybe a resurgence of that weapon? About time frankly ...

Now that seems interesting. I cant remember if they can or not though. But if they can, hell that might make them interesting too.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Holy god damn jesus. The Auspex tactics leaks for Dread Mob looks insane.

For 1 CP if you push it, you get full reroll to hits? And can even be used on a stompa since it has walkers keyword. Couple that with the other buffs or even just put it on a normal Gorkanaut.

Some of these stratagems are really damn good, but of course you also risk killing yourself in the process and all. But they sound really damn hilarious!

And Da big hunt has Scout 9 on an enhancement for a unit of your squighogs? Sound really good. And the Bully boys also look interesting. And the swarm detatchment that i forgot the name of. This actually look really effing cool, not gonna lie. I just made a 180 turn on my feelings on the codex

Do not judge untill you see the datasheets and price tags….

 Tomsug wrote:
Do not judge untill you see the datasheets and price tags….

Either way my Grot Tank company will get good use out of the Dread Mob detachment.
And right in time for the shops next Crusade.

When (and where) do the Forgeworld index unit datasheets get updated usually?

Should be the app and I think sometimes on the War Con community page for downloads, though I'm wary that they'll use this as a chance to legends most of the models instead.

kult of speed boys!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcFywlBWF50


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is it me or dakkajet just became viable in speed freaks.

Pretty excited for this one, but its always weird trying to make an army out of large, inexpensive models. Assault Ramp Nobz seems amazing and probably a big bike squad, but after that I start to struggle with what I should take.

Forceride wrote:
kult of speed boys!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcFywlBWF50


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Is it me or dakkajet just became viable in speed freaks.

Kult of speed seems to be unbelievable piece of .. squig?

What the hack?

Some interesting tricks are there but the datasheets seems to be the same. So every single buggy is an expensive junk. Winners of the the “the most $$$ list” competititon? Such dakka could be worth 50p per buggy. But even with the price tags around 100p you was hardly able to get them in the deployment zone. So no chance a price tag can fix it.

Or do I miss something? And yes, I saw the strategems you can use ON ONE SINGLE UNIT so either single bloody buggy or one 3-buggies unit that is almost impossible to move around the table.

And the most interesting tricks seems to be the assault ramp for transports that are not even the Speed freaks. So yes, great, I can T1 charge ghazzy with MANz from BW in KULT OF SPEED detachement?

Very sad exhaust noises….

That really spoiled me the evening. Hell…..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
I 'm so sad guys… sipping third beer, looking for tomorrow to get my new motorbike and now this….

Aaargh….




Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the whole point of getting buggies to 9” range is what? With their squiggy CC and defence profiles? The whole point od Speed freaks was to spread around the table, keep the distance and shoot. And have some crazy moving tricks.

With such rules, you get to 9”, shoot, kill notihing with the not-enough-dakka profiles, get charged and dies.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Ok, finaly a time to build a cabinet for the models and stompa to be on the top…

I think for kult of speed to be good, it largely depends on the buggies. If they are just transported with no changes to the new codex as they are now, you take underwhelming buggies and make them potentially decent.

But never really great.

So i think there has to be some changes to make buggies better, before Kult of Speed can really shine.

Is my take anyway. Over all decent rules for them though, but a lot of the stratagems will be hitting low cost units, not larger units.

Okay Edit: hadnt watched the last part of the auspex youtube video to see there were no changes to buggies.

I guess thats a bit underwhelming given the profiles are underwhelming. And that makes using stratagems on them a bit.. bad because you get little value. Maybe its still good in the end but it doesnt sound great on paper. Buggies would need serious price reductions to be good but the models are too large to warrent being cheaper, they should have simply been better.

I dont have any other faction that has assault ramps to riddle me this:
You dont get to move after disembarking do you? Just transport moves, you disembark and can charge? Auspex tactics said that battlewagon with hard hitters seemed pretty auto include with assault ramps and im unsure why.

A battlewagon moves 10 inches, you get out within 3 which essentially gives you 13 inch movement on a bunch of boys or nobz.
If you jumped out of the battlewagon, during the waaagh round, you would move 6 inches +3 from the disembark, and then advance an average of 3-4 inches, which gets you roughly the same distance in movement, of 13-14 inches? You have a chance to roll lower of course, but you also can roll higher and move even further.

Definitely need to split the new thread into five different ones for all the different exclusive detachments with keyword rules for strategems and detachment rules.

Not one big waaagh family any more

If they end up being terrible rules, you could always do a "counts as" army with the 1kSons list. Just shout Waaaaagggghhh!!!! a lot and hope no-one notices.

3xWinged DPs
(They're your warboss buggies, with tellyportas and rokkit jump jetz. Your bosses krump in melee how you want, and one more than most with arcane vortex. One might have a weirdboy)

3x Tzaangor Shaman
(They're your nobz on warbikes. Get a mega-blasta, a decent choppa, and one gets a tellyporta crystal. +1 on all shooting or attacks, 5+FNP. They're 2+ tohit, the rest of the ladz are 3+ and get a 5+FNP. Works goodz. Waaaghhh!!)

3x Vortex Beasts
(They're your big mek battlewagons, with Destructo projektas, kustom shields and killiersaws)

3x Forgefiends
(They're your looted tanks, or killier kans/ deff dreadz, with extra guns attached and bionic'd Orks in them. Could just use predators if you want other sorts of looted tanks, but these are more mekked up)

3x6 Tzaangor Enlightened
(They're your warbikes, with decent movement and murder dakka. Slide turns and nitro fly jumps too. You could add Divining Spears (+lance) or basic Chainswords and pistols to the mix if you wanted a bit of melee, but 2x s5 -1ap d2 lethal precision hits at 3+BS with the shamans is good enough. 5+/6++/5+++, 2W works well. Not tough, but not bad. Approximately a 4+ward or occasionally better as standard. Waaaaagghh! Dakka dakka dakka!!!)

A few enhancements, an extra backup teleport, and enough magic for some waaaagh movement or super mek weapons (Doombolt or no saves).

No real strategem support, but "Gork saved the Warboss!" (0-damage once per game), "Morks blessing" (command reroll), "Mekz death" (using Overwatch on a Vortex Beast heavy-flamer mode), and +1 magic "waaaghhh strategem" each turn shouldn't feel too bad. So, like, 2 fairly consequential stratagems per turn, every turn. Not too bad.

Would it work better than the orky version? Probably not. But if your buggies and bikes end up being bad, you can always "upgrade" them to this every once in a while, if you want a proper shooty mek'y/ vehicle army. I'm hoping the detachment is good though. I've been looking for an excuse to start collecting Orks.

 TedNugent wrote:
Definitely need to split the new thread into five different ones for all the different exclusive detachments with keyword rules for strategems and detachment rules.

Not one big waaagh family any more

More like an extended family at this point, like all those distant relatives that come out of the woodwork for weddings

They know where the place is, not our fault they stay at a distance.

Hmmm, i don't know, i feel worst about big hunt one. I think there is game there.. but buggies need to be cheaper. The move and advance and shot will allow to keep distance and pelt while giving options to re-engage, you will likely be playing eldar style of game.

The jury will be out but assault ramp speedfreaks will scare a few opponents.

Honestly just happy we are receiving lethal keyword in a lot of stuff, specially for shooting and max attacks. Honestly think we will be fine.

Auspex dropped a full review:




Keep in mind that he is not an ork player at all - so while he is very thorough, he tends to miss a thing or two and his tactical advice is questionable.

 Jidmah wrote:

Keep in mind that he is not an ork player at all -

Well, at least we have this:

Yep, Orks are definitely better at it than TSons, point for point. I swear, after looking at my "counts as" lazy attempt at Evil Sunz/ Speed Freaks/ Kult of Speed, like wow. Orks have soooooo many options, that I'm a bit jealous. I'm scared that our 1kSons codex will be a nerf codex, and geez I'd love that sort of unit variety (like, actual other troop roles, and rules to back them). BS3+ is a thing, but so is having 2x as much of a thing at 5+ (and extra stuff).

Got a 2000pt army done for 2xStarter Set boxes and a Rhino with Thousand Sons, and I'll probably grab a few more bits and pieces in the future. But it might be time to start a real army. The future is Waaaaagggghhh!!!!

(Still, it's nice to know there's an actual dakka list available for Evil Sunz, even if there's "probably close enough" base size issues with it. With virtually everything already having a 5++, some just a 6++/5+++, and your only usable strats being basics or epics, magic is just your 1-"free"-per-turn thingo. Start strong in shooting, or move considerably quicker, depending on enhancements. Meh, it still works. Every "vehicle" you have has tonnes of kustom mek stuff. And BS3+ is nice, and fairly tough stuff helps not lose it quite as quickly. Like, there's more tanks to loot out of TSons if you want. Lol)

Nobs now only get -1 to wound with a WB when it's S6 or higher.

Yikes.

But that means at worst being wounded on a 4 to anything between str 5-9. Plus they have more opportunity for a 5++ from either being in a Green tide detachment or the extra Waaagh from being in the Bully Boyz detachment

I actually think the more appealing thing now is the warboss' +4 attacks for 2 turns, and the rerolls to hit strategems on power klaws and killsaws.

Meganobz also get 4+++ FNP on waaagh turn.

The -1 to wound on S6+ is just a bonus.

There's also an armor of contempt strat and a -1 to wound general waaagh strat that I think they would still have access to.

I'm just curious now about Ghaz waaagh rule being triggered twice.

The downside is if you take regular detachment, nobs got nerfed a bit. Not sure if that detachment gained much of anything at all, but a lot of removed datasheets and strats that it can't even use.

Probably going to be an easy meta for green tide and bully boys, until they nerfhammer.

 Tomsug wrote:

Or do I miss something? And yes, I saw the strategems you can use ON ONE SINGLE UNIT so either single bloody buggy or one 3-buggies unit that is almost impossible to move around the table.

3 buggy units don't exist anymore. You only get single buggies. The lack of good targets for the strategems is definitely what will be holding this detachment back.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Beardedragon wrote:

I dont have any other faction that has assault ramps to riddle me this:
You dont get to move after disembarking do you? Just transport moves, you disembark and can charge? Auspex tactics said that battlewagon with hard hitters seemed pretty auto include with assault ramps and im unsure why.

A battlewagon moves 10 inches, you get out within 3 which essentially gives you 13 inch movement on a bunch of boys or nobz.
If you jumped out of the battlewagon, during the waaagh round, you would move 6 inches +3 from the disembark, and then advance an average of 3-4 inches, which gets you roughly the same distance in movement, of 13-14 inches? You have a chance to roll lower of course, but you also can roll higher and move even further.

I think the 12" move on a trukk full of Nobz is a lot more appealing than the Battlewagon personally.

 TedNugent wrote:
I actually think the more appealing thing now is the warboss' +4 attacks for 2 turns, and the rerolls to hit strategems on power klaws and killsaws.

Meganobz also get 4+++ FNP on waaagh turn.

The -1 to wound on S6+ is just a bonus.

There's also an armor of contempt strat and a -1 to wound general waaagh strat that I think they would still have access to.

I'm just curious now about Ghaz waaagh rule being triggered twice.

The downside is if you take regular detachment, nobs got nerfed a bit. Not sure if that detachment gained much of anything at all, but a lot of removed datasheets and strats that it can't even use.

Probably going to be an easy meta for green tide and bully boys, until they nerfhammer.

Doesn’t this also mean two rounds of devastating wounds on MANZ in the Bully Boys detachment?