Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
Another one…

That part's pretty lame, I kinda see why mechanically speaking why it might not work but it doesn't make sense that being in a Trukk somehow neuters a Warboss from getting his extra attack's that turn because that means you have to expose him/telegraph even harder for the Warboss to get the buff that he pays for on his datasheet for an ostensibly once per game ability.

It’s just how it’s worded it triggers when a Waagh is called.. unlike other Waagh abilities that say if a Waagh was called this round. Just effects warboss and warboss in mega armor as far as I see.. warboss in mega armor isn’t as bad going from damage 3 to damage 2, But the warboss is brutal for nobs in trukks w/ warboss.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
They won’t change it but reroll 1s on armor should come back to greentide..

More importantly revert the +10pts to meganobs as it’s way to expensive and painboss because why?

The Nerf to MANz seems excessive, but GW has recently been known to dial back overnerfs. I'm honestly not that worried.

Painboss nerf is just GW being GW. They still haven't understood that the painboss is not bringing anything to the table that makes it better than a painboy.

Changes in the core rules too. Rotation of the model basicly cost 2” no matter how much you move or something like that. No time to check it, just saw some comments. This is a pretty big boost to Wagons or Rigs

More info there https://www.goonhammer.com/welcome-to-10-5-edition-q3-2024-40k-balance-update-core-rules-and-dataslate/

The new rules and Pariah Nexus parameters kinda hoses over Speed Freeks significantly, since now they can't advance and do actions, nor can they throw grenades. Given that Speed Freeks was less about being killy and just being fast enough to max out secondaries with all the assault weapons, do you think the detachment is dead in the water until the next balance dataslate? I feel like they need to make Warbikers battleline in the detachment in order for them to have the flexibility needed to do actions. About the only thing good for Speed Freeks is that Bring it Down doesn't give as many points now.

 Grimskul wrote:
The new rules and Pariah Nexus parameters kinda hoses over Speed Freeks significantly, since now they can't advance and do actions, nor can they throw grenades. Given that Speed Freeks was less about being killy and just being fast enough to max out secondaries with all the assault weapons, do you think the detachment is dead in the water until the next balance dataslate? I feel like they need to make Warbikers battleline in the detachment in order for them to have the flexibility needed to do actions. About the only thing good for Speed Freeks is that Bring it Down doesn't give as many points now.

On the plus side movement is easier… on the bad side tankshock is worse… to be fair movement was one of the biggest issues with speedfreaks and that is mostly fixed. I agree warbikers should be battleline.. but I also think trukk boys should be speedfreak tagged as well for more trukk boy action.

I still like using speed freaks just so I can have a Mega Nob in Power Armor and 5 Mega Nobs in a Trukk with fasta Den Yooz enhancement.

Then I just use "Speediest Freak" to give the Trukk an invulnerable save lol. Enemy spends all their time shooting the trukk before the Mega Nobz roll in and Krump. Meanwhile all my speed freaks are just throwing squigs at people and causing them to fail battle shock tests lol.

I would never use any mega nobz outside of Bully boyz, after GW decided to slaughter them in this nerf

That's the main problem with detachments like these, depending on how its written for certain units, it forces GW to price units as if you would always take them in that detachment (making them basically DoA in other detachments as we see now) or the baseline datasheet is underpowered unless its taken in a certain detachment where it then becomes passable.

Do ya'll think a Dredd Mob list can compete with World Eaters?

 Whitebeard wrote:
Do ya'll think a Dredd Mob list can compete with World Eaters?

That's a rather broad question - heavily depends on both lists.

My personal experience is that's it's rather easy for a dread mob to shoot Angron off the table multiple times, plus you cause massive casualties from shooting and getting the charge on anything. On the flipside, you struggle to actually hold onto objectives since pretty much nothing will survive getting charged by a WE unit. It feels a bit like playing chess, you kill one of theirs, they kill one of yours.
In any case, mek guns, lootas and nauts pull much more weight against WE than boyz, MANz or deff dreads do.

The WE player I'm regularly facing prefers blood for the blood god over minor issues like tactics, so I can't actually tell you how well I would perform against a truly skilled player.

 Whitebeard wrote:
Do ya'll think a Dredd Mob list can compete with World Eaters?

Yes.
But then my own Grot force packs enough firepower to shoot most things off the board.

ccs wrote:

 Whitebeard wrote:
Do ya'll think a Dredd Mob list can compete with World Eaters?

Yes.
But then my own Grot force packs enough firepower to shoot most things off the board.

Does your grot force's heavy hitters mainly comprise of mek gunz and killa kanz? Not sure if you're still using legends unit like grot tanks.

 Grimskul wrote:

ccs wrote:

 Whitebeard wrote:
Do ya'll think a Dredd Mob list can compete with World Eaters?

Yes.
But then my own Grot force packs enough firepower to shoot most things off the board.

Does your grot force's heavy hitters mainly comprise of mek gunz and killa kanz? Not sure if you're still using legends unit like grot tanks.

Im not a tourney player, so yes, i use all the rules of the game (ie. Legends)
Grot tanks (usually taken in units of 4 as I've found 8 gets unwieldy to move)
Grot Mega Tanks
Mek Gunz
Kanz
Big gunz
Grots
Red Gobbo - the leader of the army.
Etc
If it's a grot thing it's in the force.

Then there's a few non-grot things as well.
●Trucks - vital for getting grots to where they need to be in one piece.
●Wazbomb - because in 9e Crusade I HAD to have a Mek unit to utilize some of the Crusade rules. So I chose the one that was most usefull & didn't require me to put an actual ork on the table.
●●Grot Bomb Launcha.
It's gotten less effective this edition. :( But a thing that fires a grot ridden bomb at the enemy seems on theme....
●War-Boss in Mega armour.
Because in 9e Crusade rules I could not lead the army with the Red Gobbo. :(
●War-Boss on Squigosaur.
He's actually for a different WiP Ork project, but I didn't want to wait that long to use him. So for our final 9e Crusade he was the War-Boss.
●Squiggoths - sometimes my grots bring some dinos to the party.
●Mek Workshop

 Jidmah wrote:

 Whitebeard wrote:
Do ya'll think a Dredd Mob list can compete with World Eaters?

That's a rather broad question - heavily depends on both lists.

My personal experience is that's it's rather easy for a dread mob to shoot Angron off the table multiple times, plus you cause massive casualties from shooting and getting the charge on anything. On the flipside, you struggle to actually hold onto objectives since pretty much nothing will survive getting charged by a WE unit. It feels a bit like playing chess, you kill one of theirs, they kill one of yours.
In any case, mek guns, lootas and nauts pull much more weight against WE than boyz, MANz or deff dreads do.

The WE player I'm regularly facing prefers blood for the blood god over minor issues like tactics, so I can't actually tell you how well I would perform against a truly skilled player.

I'd like to build a list around Gorkanauts/Morkanauts. What would be better against WE? I'd like to bring two of them. What would you bring with them in 1500 points?

 Whitebeard wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Whitebeard wrote:
Do ya'll think a Dredd Mob list can compete with World Eaters?

That's a rather broad question - heavily depends on both lists.

My personal experience is that's it's rather easy for a dread mob to shoot Angron off the table multiple times, plus you cause massive casualties from shooting and getting the charge on anything. On the flipside, you struggle to actually hold onto objectives since pretty much nothing will survive getting charged by a WE unit. It feels a bit like playing chess, you kill one of theirs, they kill one of yours.
In any case, mek guns, lootas and nauts pull much more weight against WE than boyz, MANz or deff dreads do.

The WE player I'm regularly facing prefers blood for the blood god over minor issues like tactics, so I can't actually tell you how well I would perform against a truly skilled player.

I'd like to build a list around Gorkanauts/Morkanauts. What would be better against WE? I'd like to bring two of them. What would you bring with them in 1500 points?

In a dred mob list, I would say Gorkanauts are better because of the extra attack and their shooting bizarrely can be better than the Morkanauts with the appropriate buffs. The Morkanaut really should have BS4+ base OR at least S12-14 on it's Kustom Mega Zzappa

If you have a mek to spare for running after the naut, the Gorkanaut is better, but also more expensive and you can't really put that mek in a useful unit anymore. Against WE a gorkanaut's extra melee capabilities are also not that important. If it gets charged, it dies.

Without mek support, I'd go for the morkanaut, as +1 to hit multiplies with the other two shooting stratagems you can drop on him and more than two instances of hazardous don't make the gun worse - so feel free to push it on both stratagems an select the best buff for the situation. Combined with sustained hits, statistically you get as many hits as you have shots without suffering an extra penalty.

I don't think multiple nauts really help you win more. You can get away with one naut due to how well it scales with the stratagems, but every naut beyond the first is just dead weight reducing your ability to control the board. They are not hard to kill and they don't do anything exception kanz or dreads can't do just as good.
Multiple nauts is probably good enough for a fun game, but nor for reliably winning games.

What would you bring against World Eaters from Dred mob?

 Whitebeard wrote:
What would you bring against World Eaters from Dred mob?

Lootas with SAG Mek (ideally one with the ignores cover enhancement) leading them for decent fire support, likewise with mek guns. Basically, you want to have some countercharge units from killa kanz and the naut with deff dreadz while your fire support whittles them down at the beginning of the game. I'm not sure if boyz with Meks are worth it, but they could bring much needed OC bodies to contest middle board objectives. Otherwise, you want your unit of grots on your home objective as usual alongside some stormboyz for late game mobility.

Yup, SAG+lootas+gitfinder is pretty much an auto-take for dread mob.

You kind of need boyz to hold objectives as none of the walkers have the durability to do so. Shoota boyz with warboss and drill/KMB mek work great against melee-focused armies, especially if you keep some CP points to force your opponent to play around overwatch.

I'm not sure if MANz are actually worth that many points anymore, but I don't really have an alternative plan for a durable midfield unit. If you hand over the middle without a fight, I doubt you stand a chance in regards to VP. I guess instead of spending 350 on a single unit of MANz you could just plonk down 3 units of 3 kanz and have two of them counter-charge whatever murdered the third one.

I agree on the gretchin and stormboyz. all of dread mob's true power is hidden in its stratagems, so you should absolutely bring 2 units of gretchin. If you are playing the new mission deck, keep in mind that they gain battle line.
Storm boyz, Snikrot or SJD are needed for scoring and and threatening backfield, you are not going to run anything past a WE frontline.

Well, orks droped to 36% win rate this week, so the nerfhammer worked well

Honestly, last year or so I feel overhelmed by the constant changes in the game. I understand, that changes keeps the game balanced and interesting, but it seems, someone forgot that this hobby is also about modeling and painting and such ridiculous speed of developement totaly anihilate the chance to paint the army to play competitively…

Has anyone had any success with any shooting platform? I am currently looking at lootaz and flash gitz.. last game i noticed the lack of it painfully..

Anyone care to share it's experience? I used unitcrunch to check the best and lootaz seems to be on top

Tomsug wrote:Well, orks droped to 36% win rate this week, so the nerfhammer worked well

Honestly, last year or so I feel overhelmed by the constant changes in the game. I understand, that changes keeps the game balanced and interesting, but it seems, someone forgot that this hobby is also about modeling and painting and such ridiculous speed of developement totaly anihilate the chance to paint the army to play competitively…

The double whammy of everyone adapting their lists to deal with our kind of skew, and a nerf bat taken to our kind of skew. The meta will adapt to Orks no longer rampaging across the top tables, and then the nerfs will be somewhat corrected. Then we'll be back. Remember, we never lose, we just come back for another fight later

Forceride wrote:Has anyone had any success with any shooting platform? I am currently looking at lootaz and flash gitz.. last game i noticed the lack of it painfully..

Anyone care to share it's experience? I used unitcrunch to check the best and lootaz seems to be on top

I know Jidmah is a pretty big advocate of lootas with a SAG in dread mob. Flash Gitz are still solid, and if you can but then with a Mek a Gorkanaut or even a Stompa can be pretty spooky. Lootas are definitely our premier shooting unit at the moment though.

Oh yeah i been reading Jidmah.. i also agree.. although the push the button faster might be as good on them.. i am currently sporting a bully detach.. after last match against eldar was pretty rough , so i was reminded of my match with DG and advice from my opponent to look into more shooting..

Another thing i am concluding is the kill rig as a center piece, and after this game i really enjoy its durability versus running meganobz with big mek.. I dunno maybe i rolled poorly but they didn't seem that durable at a whooping 340... that's 2 kill rigs price...

Well enough rambling thx for the advice will take a look maybe i will run both.

I'm not that sure you can actually build a decent gunline-ish army outside of dread mob. Almost all our shooting either chips away at a target before you charge it, or you dogpile a ton of guns from various units onto a hard target to make it go away.

Having some part of your army hang back and pick off enemy threats is currently not something that one of the melee focused detachments can do. However, you can absolutely take out a landraider or greater demon in a single round of shooting by pointing the entire army's rokkits and KMBs at it.
They are our best guns currently, but we can't have dedicated units of them like eldar or primaris do.

Too bad they neutered the burna wagon to just 11 flamers at a time. It was a terror for my opponents

Forceride wrote:
Has anyone had any success with any shooting platform? I am currently looking at lootaz and flash gitz.. last game i noticed the lack of it painfully..

Anyone care to share it's experience? I used unitcrunch to check the best and lootaz seems to be on top

Yes, my Grot tank co.

Take everything Grot related. Combine with dreadmob. Point gunz toward enemy & fire.
Meanwhile take objectives with foot grots (my own ride around in trucks)

I'm definitely kind of at a loss post dataslate. I've got enough points of Orks but the points just don't feel like they come together into an army anymore. I keep building armies that come to like 1965.

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm not that sure you can actually build a decent gunline-ish army outside of dread mob. Almost all our shooting either chips away at a target before you charge it, or you dogpile a ton of guns from various units onto a hard target to make it go away.

Having some part of your army hang back and pick off enemy threats is currently not something that one of the melee focused detachments can do. However, you can absolutely take out a landraider or greater demon in a single round of shooting by pointing the entire army's rokkits and KMBs at it.
They are our best guns currently, but we can't have dedicated units of them like eldar or primaris do.

Too bad they neutered the burna wagon to just 11 flamers at a time. It was a terror for my opponents

Yeah, our heyday of 5th ed with lootas glancing things to death while shoota boyz mobs drowned infantry in buckets of shots, or the SSAG double shooting of 8th and the buggy shooting spam of 9th has definitely passed as GW has continually curbed our shooting potential in favour of CC prowess so that we now effectively are much more of a choppy with a side of shootin type army rather than the other way around for what a lot of our lists looked like historically, which isn't necessarily bad but it does suck that the "DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA" element of Orks has been harder to specialize in. I think tankbustas at some level could have helped fill in that niche but the lack of a new plastic kit means its relegated to the "no models, no rules" zone of uselessness with their fixed loadout at the moment. Having a dedicated gunwagon not based on the battlewagon chassis would help give us a sense of shootiness if they choose to go that route in future Ork army additions.

One of the bigger issues is that from buggies to koptas to battlewagon and kill rigs many ork shooting plattforms have a "main gun" which doesn't actually feel like a main gun. A battlewagon dwarves a predator in size, number of guns and caliber, but it still only amounts to killing a marine or two or 2-4 damage against a vehicle.

Why doesn't the killkannon have the same profile as a battlecannon? Why is the zzap gun just one shot at BS5+?

Even on the new mek, I don't ever see myself wanting the traktor cannon profile because it's just so much worse than the KMB.

When everything is average strength, average ap, average amount of hits - you pick up the free/cheap average guns you get all over the army, no need to bring a dedicated unit for them.

I really love my buggies and would add them to my dreadmob to get some more mobility - but neither the boomdakka snazzwagon, nor the scrapjet nor the KBB bring anything to the table that isn't already covered by just sticking rokkits and KMB everywhere you can.

Not sure what to say.. we aren't WE.. but it feels like it.

To me.. we lack shoots and strg in just about every weapon..

A tad disheartening that we feel like 2/3 of an army

if we had a melee and survival like some of the best i could understand having such anaemic shooting output.. but i hear even WE have viable platforms for shooting

The missions i been reading and playing also line up against us.. the nerfs are just pilling on top plus the legends move... It's even worst then the codex Custodes at launch.. we went from top to bottom just like genstealers...

Been positive all through the ups and downs this edition but i am pretty close to just say f it and not bother, GW can fix the mess, and wait or just try and find some player driven proper rules

If they wanna sell sculps, this just makes me not want to buy. Why waste money when i can just paint the current ones... and i am not a fan of painting...

depressing really.. maybe i am the prob and investing to much mind process on this..

Or just feel like ranting until cows come home..

 Jidmah wrote:
Why is the zzap gun just one shot at BS5+?

Because that's been its stats for at least two editions now?