Our Codex is da biggest an da best! - Orks 10th Edition Tactics

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**Beardedragon**

Do you guys know what a good tactical Brigade list looks like? Its one of those few types of orks lists i cant fully get the hang of. Like the mix between melee and shooting

**Jidmah**

More or less like a warhorde, but you bring more characters.

Most power in that detachment comes from orders giving stealth when you aren't engaging and strength/bs when you are, mek kaptin leading flash gits for good old badrukk glory and the fight proppa stratagem.

Good units are SAG/tankbustas, MA big mek/flash gits, beast boss/snaggas, squigriders with either leader and warboss/nobz. Warbikes have been nothing but a disappointment for me, kommados are better left leaderless and don't use more stormboyz than you would in any other detachment. I also never managed to make MANz work, but other have been successful with them.

The melee buffs also work on vehicles, but YMMV.

With the most recent balance slate, snikrot is probably an auto-take (he can order other nearby units), and Thrakka/Boyz or Thrakka/Nobz might work well, but I haven't tried it.

**Tomsug**

I can offer Tactical Brogade and Dread Mob from last CI / lists before point update

KARAK in Czech - Jan Ulman was 3rd with a lot of rokkits from various platforms (dreadmob)

Spoiler:

WARPSTORM 2: WAAAHG HARDER in Northern Ireland - Mark Morrow won with tactical brigade

Spoiler:

**Beardedragon**

The "WARPSTORM 2: WAAAHG HARDER in Northern Ireland - Mark Morrow won with tactical brigade" list, i wonder how the transports and the units were handled.

10 snagga boys with a boss, mega nobz with a boss, 10 flash gitz and 3x6 tankbustas all with a character.

Im almost inclined to believe the trukks would be mega nobz, snagga boys and flash gitz, and maybe 2 tankbustas on the table and 1 unit in reserve, or maybe 2 in reserve.

Im not sure.

**Jidmah**

I'd think they would carry the tank bustas.

All other units can walk up the board with stealth, especially the flash gits with 4++/stealth/reviving models are a pain in the ass to remove unless they get charged by some marine shredder units.

**Beardedragon**

I would fear they couldnt get a proper firing lane by only moving 6 inches, the flash gitz that is.

But fair point. Infantry without trukks. Tankbustas in trukks.

Im still not sure why the tankbustas/breaker boys have 6 models rather than 5. Its a bit of a pain when it comes to trukk transports.

**Afrodactyl**

Beardedragon wrote:
I would fear they couldnt get a proper firing lane by only moving 6 inches, the flash gitz that is.

But fair point. Infantry without trukks. Tankbustas in trukks.

Im still not sure why the tankbustas/breaker boys have 6 models rather than 5. Its a bit of a pain when it comes to trukk transports.

I think it's a combination of getting a balanced kill team size, and so that you can't take two units with characters in a single Trukk. So instead of merging the Trukk yet again, they can give it an indirect nerf by limiting what can go in them.

**Forceride**

Had my game against the nid tunnel detach, big takes? Army wide reroll 1 and ability with caveats of pseudo DS 6'. There is a bit of things to watch out on that detach, though thats for the nids.

the good:
Pleasantly surprised by kill kans robustness, their not amazing at killing but 15w on Sv3 T6 has some stickiness to the table, they were consistently causing issues and doing damage and being a nuisance etc... Considering if rockets would be better, although auto hit is pretty good even and if their engaged. At 125pts, i think their what meganobz should have been, resilient and flexible. Not damage dealers but robust. Open to some one to disagree, but even my opponent pointed out the surprise in a unit that started poorly btw.
Snikrot remains auto include with infiltrate and lone op and inbuilt teleport.

the bad:
This time around i took Ghaz with painboy, now i could see the issue with it. While it is far more robust, it bring's all the same issues from before, ghaz retinue is one where you need to charge him in order to bring some effect or risk doing very little, again i am in a situation where i just prefer the weirdboy, the other one i think that has legs is playing him in a wagon like Jidmah mention. also besides the the fact ghaz needs to be charging, it also has a huge footprint from the boyz, making it a massive block easy to gain a charging vector.

I lost the game, i did too many mistakes... did learn a bit though, i think war horde is still the staple and tacktical is pretty good vs shooting armies, but ghaz might give game to bullyboys?

Anyway, might try something different next game, might get squigs with beastboss, their just 260pts now.

**Jidmah**

Beardedragon wrote:
Im still not sure why the tankbustas/breaker boys have 6 models rather than 5. Its a bit of a pain when it comes to trukk transports.

Rumor has it that nob was intended to be a stand-alone character by the modeling team, but was denied its own datasheet.

**Beardedragon**

Forceride wrote:
Had my game against the nid tunnel detach, big takes? Army wide reroll 1 and ability with caveats of pseudo DS 6'. There is a bit of things to watch out on that detach, though thats for the nids.

the good:
Pleasantly surprised by kill kans robustness, their not amazing at killing but 15w on Sv3 T6 has some stickiness to the table, they were consistently causing issues and doing damage and being a nuisance etc... Considering if rockets would be better, although auto hit is pretty good even and if their engaged. At 125pts, i think their what meganobz should have been, resilient and flexible. Not damage dealers but robust. Open to some one to disagree, but even my opponent pointed out the surprise in a unit that started poorly btw.
Snikrot remains auto include with infiltrate and lone op and inbuilt teleport.

the bad:
This time around i took Ghaz with painboy, now i could see the issue with it. While it is far more robust, it bring's all the same issues from before, ghaz retinue is one where you need to charge him in order to bring some effect or risk doing very little, again i am in a situation where i just prefer the weirdboy, the other one i think that has legs is playing him in a wagon like Jidmah mention. also besides the the fact ghaz needs to be charging, it also has a huge footprint from the boyz, making it a massive block easy to gain a charging vector.

I lost the game, i did too many mistakes... did learn a bit though, i think war horde is still the staple and tacktical is pretty good vs shooting armies, but ghaz might give game to bullyboys?

Anyway, might try something different next game, might get squigs with beastboss, their just 260pts now.

What did you play since you had killa kanz? Dread mob? Or did you just bring 3 cheeky killa kanz?

**Afrodactyl**

I like Killa Kans. They're cheap, decently durable, and can pull their weight in melee and shooting.

I can advocate for Squigosaurs with a big unit of Hogs. I use them similarly to how some people use Mega Nobz; as a brick to bog down the midboard that can swing back in melee. They're pretty durable; T7, W3, 4+/5+++ means that they're pretty inefficient to kill without over killing them, and you can throw in Ard As Nails if you really want the opponent to waste firepower. With a Squigosaur/Mozrog, and Unbridled Carnage if needed, they can hit pretty hard as well against the right targets.

Another benefit of them over MANz is that they don't require a transport to get them to the midboard turn one. Granted, you lose out on the ablative wounds and damage potential of the transport, but you save the points to be spent elsewhere.

Are they a "staple, must-have unit"? No. But I've never been disappointed with how they've performed, even if they've just been shot off the table turn one.

**Forceride**

Sry there, was playing war horde, cheeky killa kans, with exploding 6 their melee is ok! With flames their a decent over watch. (+1 to S might be better in some situations like i noticed)

Yeah i can see some merit but i will bing half a unit with character. Looking to see how it goes.

**Tomsug**

I vote for big blob of robosquigriders + bossrider too! Same experience. With Ard as nails true pain in the a** to kill.

**Beardedragon**

Its probably a very durable unit but i find it really difficult to spend 300 points worth of squighog boys who are honestly not worth 300 points.

Add some character and you spend 400+ points.

Very very expensive.

**Afrodactyl**

They are expensive, being 410 points for a full hog unit and a Squigosaur. However, a full unit of MANz, a MegaBoss and a BW is 430 points.

Either way it makes for an expensive investment if you want a big brick unit.

**Beardedragon**

In that case i would go for 5 MANZ and a mega boss which can fit in a trukk instead. I never use 6 and a character anyway to avoid the coherency issues.

**Grimskul**

My bigger issue with having a full brick of squighogz led by the Squigboss is the amount of space they take up on the board. It can make it difficult to put them properly behind terrain and navigate to have enough of their unit to get into engagement range if the opponent is savvy enough to know where to set up chokepoints for them. I still like the base squad with Squigosaur so at least it's more maneuvrable.

**Jidmah**

Afrodactyl wrote:
They are expensive, being 410 points for a full hog unit and a Squigosaur. However, a full unit of MANz, a MegaBoss and a BW is 430 points.

Either way it makes for an expensive investment if you want a big brick unit.

MANz in a battlewagon aren't a great unit either. 10 regular nobz with warboss in a BW clock in at 435 and that actually is a great unit. The big difference is that it's actually two units and they can't be wiped out by a single other unit, no matter how hard they try.

In comparison a full mob of squigs isn't that great.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Grimskul wrote:
My bigger issue with having a full brick of squighogz led by the Squigboss is the amount of space they take up on the board. It can make it difficult to put them properly behind terrain and navigate to have enough of their unit to get into engagement range if the opponent is savvy enough to know where to set up chokepoints for them. I still like the base squad with Squigosaur so at least it's more maneuvrable.

Agree. 4+1 still is small enough to get everything in combat if your opponent is actively trying to minimize the number of models you can get in base contact with. More often than not, the extra squigs just end up being ablative wounds, and they are too expensive for that.

**Tomsug**

These re two different options.

Squigriders are huge. Hard to hyde but great in occupy the space. They can block a significant part of the table.

Great target for Ard ans Naula while the rest sits in BW who cannot benefit from Ard as nails.

Great unit? .. rarely seen on top competitive levels. But happens times to times.

Good unit in War Tribe? I vote for them. Good synergies.

Could be cheaper? Definitely

Can be compared to Nobz? Hardly. Nobz for the same prize are a small squad sits first in the trukk and than walking slow through the walls . Different user case.

**Beardedragon**

So i saw that Art of war rated Orks pretty well.

Maybe its me but i dont see it? But maybe its dependant on whether you use Ghaz or not. Like, my normal warhorde list did not use ghaz, so that didnt really give me any difference after the dataslate.

So the way i see it, there is only any difference if you play:

With Ghaz
With mega Nobz
Taktikal brigade/dread mob with full 10 man loota/flash gitz

Are orks only better if they bring Ghaz and incorporate the new things he can do?
Are orks good with taktikal brigade and dread mob with the reduction in 10 man units?
Does these changes help bully boys enough?

**Forceride**

They mentioned that they evaluate based on the best players with best lists.

Another thing they mentioned is challenger and kommandos those are the best changes since they allow for preventing cage and challenger penalized our play style.

The points drops are a boon, and ghaz is just a new spin on things.

In the end their trying to predict the meta, take it with a grain of salt, a big chunky one.

But some of things they mentioned make sense.

**Afrodactyl**

Re the Squighogs blob, I will admit I'm not advocating for them as a big hammer unit like Nobz+Warboss, they simply can't compete with how well that unit can mulch targets.

The bulk of their damage output without a character is against infantry and transport level vehicles which we generally have in spades, and the Squigosaur broadens the scope of what they can take on. Against hard targets, the Squigosaur is doing all of the heavy lifting.

I use them primarily for their speed, base size and durability with Ard As Nails to clog up the midboard early while my Beastbosses, Tankbustas and Flash Gitz start taking points and dealing proper damage. I've generally found that if I still have Hogs in the midboard by the end of turn 3 I'm probably going to win thanks to the tarpit they can be unless something major happens.

They're 100% a niche pick, and don't work against every opponent or in every list, but I think they're at least worth considering. If we're considering Nobz+Warboss as an "S tier unit" then I'd say Hogs+Saur are high B, or A depending on what you're up against.

I also just really like the models and need to justify having bought enough for 3 maxed units

**Tomsug**

The fact is, i' ve designed my own “dyno-free” STL version of riders, I love them and that is a very much also a reason why I play them

**Forceride**

So not take away from the discussion, the hogs were alright. But their a massive CP drain, considering my list, i was CP hungry. That does not take from a massive boost they get from -1w.

They were impressive roadblocks that caused a lot issues transit wise to my opponent. So the transit is not just an issue for me lol, in a small unit of 4 with character their also nimble enough to slide to cracks and block key units.
Unfortunately due to their inconsistency(fnp and damage wise) i feel their overpriced. At 150 + 110 it is hard to justify when for same price i can get a truck with flamers inside...

My summary is they need point cuts to be viable, they did 8w to lion because my opponent allowed but he could easily had skipped it with proper strat use. i think if they were 120pts as they are would open them up for a lot of things.

Killa kans kinda disappointed, but like everything i used them as throw away, going for flamer dread config, plus bully boyz this sunday game, i noticed 5 mans being cheaper then 20boyz, wild.. Anyway for those nterested kommandos still making a name in this game. The fact that you can easily deny and cage with infiltrate makes it so it is kinda guaranteed to need in every list.

High points for ghaz for managing a 14 charge(12+2 from strat) it allowed me some cheeky pile in and claim lion.

**Jidmah**

Beardedragon wrote:
So i saw that Art of war rated Orks pretty well.

Maybe its me but i dont see it? But maybe its dependant on whether you use Ghaz or not. Like, my normal warhorde list did not use ghaz, so that didnt really give me any difference after the dataslate.

So the way i see it, there is only any difference if you play:

With Ghaz
With mega Nobz
Taktikal brigade/dread mob with full 10 man loota/flash gitz

Are orks only better if they bring Ghaz and incorporate the new things he can do?
Are orks good with taktikal brigade and dread mob with the reduction in 10 man units?
Does these changes help bully boys enough?

Art of war never was particularly good at predicting ork meta, just like most channel who don't primarily focus on orks.

Ghaz is a nice addition for bully boyz and green tide, but not that much for warhorde and tactical. The detachment which benefits most is probably dread mob, because you can now Thrakka with a mek keyword in a unit of boyz with stealth.

Everything else is just rolling back previous nerfs which were considered over the top even when they were applied. Celebrating them as buff just shows how little research went into that video.
We already know that tactical brigade won't suddenly be crushing games with those exact points costs, because that's literally what people were playing in this spring.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Afrodactyl wrote:
I use them primarily for their speed, base size and durability with Ard As Nails to clog up the midboard early while my Beastbosses, Tankbustas and Flash Gitz start taking points and dealing proper damage. I've generally found that if I still have Hogs in the midboard by the end of turn 3 I'm probably going to win thanks to the tarpit they can be unless something major happens.

Maybe it's because of the chaos legion/xenos heavy meta in my games, but I've found them failing regularly at this particular task. I prefer running Mozrog over the squigboss (which should be more durable), but in general the entire unit usually disappears into red paste during turn 2 unless I'm facing an army which lacks the tools to handle them, which pretty much is just TS, sisters and nids.

I also just really like the models and need to justify having bought enough for 3 maxed units

You never need to justify bringing a unit you like

Just keep in mind "are they good?" and "how to make this unit work" are two different discussions.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Forceride wrote:
My summary is they need point cuts to be viable, they did 8w to lion because my opponent allowed but he could easily had skipped it with proper strat use. i think if they were 120pts as they are would open them up for a lot of things.

Agree. The unit has an impact on the board (even if they die), but the hole they leave behind when dead is just too big.

**Afrodactyl**

Jidmah wrote:

You never need to justify bringing a unit you like

It's more that I'm justifying to myself at this point, sunk costs and all that

**Grimskul**

Slight aside on my part, but while we're on the discussion of Squighogs, I have a bit of an update from my end from my start to the crusade.

With the points cuts from the latest balance dataslate, I had enough points to give my Beastboss on Squigasaur the Proper Killy enhancement for the 3 damage on his Beastchoppa as the first enhancement in my army (thanks for the reminder Jidmah!). This ended up playing a big role since my first game was against a GSC player in my campaign and he had a big brick of Aberrants as his main anvil unit. But boy is it rough having to deal with his extra ambush units at 1k points. I ended up losing since he was able to score early primary T1 with his scout/infiltrate moves but their army is pretty good for farming XP through kills, so I've managed to get my Beastboss on Squigosaur to Blooded after my first game and I've spent a RP for extra supply limit to get me some of the Kommandos to give me some pre-game movement as well as a SAG Big Mek to access some of the kustom jobs.

The main question I have now is I have some extra RP hanging around, is it worth spending the RP early to gain access to a Kustom Job or Bestest Bossloot or should I wait until the Stage 2 or Stage 3 WAAAGH! to get some of the free unlocks? I know you're capped at only one Bestest Bossloot for your WAAAGH!Boss, so any subsequent access to it is just to swap it out for something different.

I do want to give context that as our first campaign, we're currently aiming for about 6 games per person in total across the campaign, with each campaign phase having 2 games per person. So currently I'm at 2 Stompin Points. I don't know if I really have that many games available to even reach Stage 3 WAAAGH! which is why I'm wondering if spending some of my extra RP now for the Bossloot or Kustom Job would make more sense for the moment.

If I do go for the Bestest Bossloot, since my WAAAGH!Boss is the Beastboss on Squigosaur, would the Devastating Wounds relic or the Strikes First and +2 Move relic be a better call? The Devastating Wounds would combo off strongly with my 3 damage weapon on my boss, but strikes first and +2 move is also really tasty for disrupting my opponent's charges against the unit.

This is mostly aimed towards Jidmah, but anyone else with some crusade experience, feel free to drop off your Morky words of wisdom!

**Jidmah**

Keep in mind that winning a mission isn't always the best option. Especially when the victory bonus of a mission isn't great, it's absolutely worth abandoning the primary mission and instead try to maximize your XP/ruction points. In pariah nexus, scoring the killiest gitz always took priority for me over winning a game. It's also proppa orky

I never bought a boss loot item, RP are quite hard to come by and to spend 2 of them on something you can only have once and get free later feels like a waste.
Kustom jobs, on the other hand, are good (if not the best) way to spend RP, as many of them significantly increase the viability of vehicle units. Faster dreads or gorkanauts, more shooty buggies/kanz/mek guns/morkanauts or koptas with smoke screen are all great options.
Having some RP at hand to ignore a crippling battle scar, reequipping a unit to better fit the traits they have rolled(shoota boyz!) or increasing the supply limit to reach a waaagh size threshold also helps.
Don't waste them.

That said, 2 stomping points sounds like not a lot. Are you sure you counted them right?

**Tomsug**

Notoriously knowen Brian Seipp was in top 15 (=14th

) on LGT and there is quite a lot of coverage for it, so let ´ s check it!

List is double BW and MekGhazzy Boyz squad with a lot of gitz and secret switching technique

Spoiler:

Interview with him about how it works is here: https://youtu.be/NsEknqbL59Y?si=fq144kwI74F4cqZY

You can see it in action here: https://www.youtube.com/live/CHJoQq6V4Kw?si=e9Rd2F18NAUhEe4B

And the swap trick?

**Grimskul**

Jidmah wrote:
Keep in mind that winning a mission isn't always the best option. Especially when the victory bonus of a mission isn't great, it's absolutely worth abandoning the primary mission and instead try to maximize your XP/ruction points. In pariah nexus, scoring the killiest gitz always took priority for me over winning a game. It's also proppa orky

I never bought a boss loot item, RP are quite hard to come by and to spend 2 of them on something you can only have once and get free later feels like a waste.
Kustom jobs, on the other hand, are good (if not the best) way to spend RP, as many of them significantly increase the viability of vehicle units. Faster dreads or gorkanauts, more shooty buggies/kanz/mek guns/morkanauts or koptas with smoke screen are all great options.
Having some RP at hand to ignore a crippling battle scar, reequipping a unit to better fit the traits they have rolled(shoota boyz!) or increasing the supply limit to reach a waaagh size threshold also helps.
Don't waste them.

That said, 2 stomping points sounds like not a lot. Are you sure you counted them right?

Gotcha, thanks for the advice as always Jidmah. In that case, what would the first battle trait for the Beastboss on Squigosaur would you recommend? He already has 3 damage with Proper Killy, so I figure it makes sense to give him Ride Em Down to get +1 to his advance and charge rolls, which means his unit would have +2 to charge rolls since it stacks with his baseline rule. I was looking at the Weapons Modifications one as well, not sure if I have the wording down, but it looks like it only excludes you from having it if your enhancement is replaced but I don't think most enhancements do that nowadays? Not sure how you played it with your group, as the wording on Proper Killy just says add +1 damage to all melee weapons equipped by the bearer so I'm not sure if that would count.

I think I got my stomping points correctly, since I think you only get 1 stomping point every time you increase your supply limit (which I did once), and another for each battle you play (which I did once). I didn't win, so I didn't get the stomping point for that, nor did I get to kill the enemy warlord. Unfortunately, I did take the Skrag the Killiest Gitz to see if I could get stompin points that way but he had a 10 man brick of abberants and rolled really well for his FNP so I wasn't able to bring it down to half strength/wipe them out. So I think it was just an iffy game in terms of getting stomping points.