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Do you mean a Kustom Mega-Blasta?

Disregard what i said i think i am still sleeping.
Yes i mean kustom blasta, i will fix the previous posts.

Although that does give me the idea of putting a SAG in them, but it defeats the purpose of being a cheap disposable threat.
In my games flamer trucks are better then 10 beats snaggas with beast boss in both consistency and durability. Although this just my opinion? The guys at art of war put them above a flame truck...

 Tomsug wrote:
Oooh I see, Tankbustas boost the SAG! That is the whole point. Is it mandatory or can I just skipp it? I 'm short of points..

Yeah, that's it. The synergy between SAG and tank bustas is why I bring them. The SAG itself is a 60" gun that can threaten pretty much anything that doesn't have a 4++, it makes people not want to park vehicles in sight of a trukk.
In addition, on the tankbusta's 'go' turn it gets buffed by both Tank Hunters and the Pulsa rokkit while being able to re-roll the number of shots and giving re-roll ones to the whole unit.

Tankbustas work perfectly fine without a SAG, but I'd struggle to find something as efficient as a tankbusta SAG.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Forceride wrote:
Disregard what i said i think i am still sleeping.
Yes i mean kustom blasta, i will fix the previous posts.

Although that does give me the idea of putting a SAG in them, but it defeats the purpose of being a cheap disposable threat.
In my games flamer trucks are better then 10 beats snaggas with beast boss in both consistency and durability. Although this just my opinion? The guys at art of war put them above a flame truck...

For flamer trukks/wagons I put them with mini meks when I ran them. Buffing those KMB to 4+ is quite nice as well.

That's a nice idea, but that's extra 80 or something points i got fish from somewhere, i think i rather put a bunch of deffkoptas, their there to die and threaten action monkeys, rubbish infantry and termis etc. The face of my marine opponents when the flamers takes 7wounds of their minis is worth it's weigh in gold. Nothing like absolute rubbish to cause damage and be absolute rain in your parade, while i am cackling in the back like a cunning grot.

My list is running really tight at the moment. My modus operandi is, your either efficient and cheap or you don't have a place in the warband. Bonus points if it is complete rubbish in stats yet surprisingly constant and efficient.

5 flashgits comes a lot to mind on this as well, for 80points their really nice. They also get a lot of humff once they drop outside.

Aaargh damn… 5 pts missing in my great new list.

Anyway..

I was sceptical about putting shooting units in War Tribe list. But having 2 x 60” SAGplus really could change the dynamic of the game… the risk of being shot down by them will keep this bloody Dorns little bit in cover…

 Tomsug wrote:
Aaargh damn… 5 pts missing in my great new list.

Anyway..

I was sceptical about putting shooting units in War Tribe list. But having 2 x 60” SAGplus really could change the dynamic of the game… the risk of being shot down by them will keep this bloody Dorns little bit in cover…

A little bit of shooting goes a long way. My War Horde list used to be a trukk-heavy melee dog-pile with some flash gits so I could participate in the shooting phase, but adding some extra Dakka was a game changer.

My list now has 2x5 Flash Gitz, 2x6 Tankbustas and 1x3 Deffkoptas, with assistance from the Zzap Guns on the wagons and the Wurrtower on the Kill Rig.

The list feels so much more efficient and doesn't bottleneck itself nearly as much as it used to, and having the shooting makes the Snagga contingent more worthwhile as well as it no longer has to contend with screens and is more likely to kill what it charges.

Also it's fun having my wagons be clown cars and suddenly dumping three units each into the midboard

:EDIT:
I specifically avoided adding meks to my Dakka units because I wanted them to be throwaway units. They do enough damage on their own that the generally can get the job done, but I don't feel bad if they get splatted because I haven't spent the additional points on the character. There's also nothing I'd currently be willing to get rid of to make room for them.

That being said, if you've got the points and you need the extra oomph you should probably be taking the meks.

Full rendered ork awesomeness!

I'm going to be so angry of Gorgutz doesn't get a model this time.

 Jidmah wrote:


Full rendered ork awesomeness!

I'm going to be so angry of Gorgutz doesn't get a model this time.

"Crash fasta!" is probably the Orkiest dialogue I've ever heard

I'd snap up an official Gorgutz model

It does feel dumb that they released a terminator Gabriel Angelos model from FW when they had the Gork-awful DoW3 game, bizarre flips and all, but they couldn't have the decency to do anything for Gorgutz, who's basically been there almost just as long.

Having a Gorgutz model would be dope.

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:


Full rendered ork awesomeness!

I'm going to be so angry of Gorgutz doesn't get a model this time.

"Crash fasta!" is probably the Orkiest dialogue I've ever heard

I'd snap up an official Gorgutz model

Wouldnt his model just be the old previous Ghazgkhull model?

I recall thats what he looked like before his new incarnation.

But yes i agree otherwise

Similar, since the original Gorgutz was supposed to be Thrakka in DoW originally (and Gabiel Angelos was supposed to be calgar), but GW did not give them permission to use official characters.

In later games he became his own design with his unique helmet, the oversized klaw and his faster and more mobile mega armor suit which makes him look like he is wearing a deff dread.
It's also interesting how a Goff Warboss ended up leading a Bad Moons warband and apparently went with it. Sure, it's probably just DoW3 atrocious storytelling, but at the same time it's quite fitting for a pragmatic warboss like him.

Meh.. I don ' t like how Makaris Lethal Hits mitigate Beastboss Devastating wounds… bad synergy

I gonna say something divisive. But i believe the beast boss on foot time is over. There simply too much things getting the -1 treatment and dev wounds for 1 damage does not cut it.. Hell i am reconsidering nobz.. and i been playing them both since the start of edition.

There is a video out there from General Jannis (DG strategy/mathhammer guy) showing all the math on this.

The short version is, while devastating wound and lethal hits don't multiply, lethal hits AND devastating wounds is usually still equal or more damage than lethal hits OR devastating wounds on their own unless:
- Your to wound is 2+ or 3+ with re-rolls
- Opponent has a better save than 3+ after subtracting AP

Neither is particularly common when a beastboss hits things.

 Forceride wrote:
I gonna say something divisive. But i believe the beast boss on foot time is over. There simply too much things getting the -1 treatment and dev wounds for 1 damage does not cut it.. Hell i am reconsidering nobz.. and i been playing them both since the start of edition.

I've not encountered this issue, but it may be meta/opponent dependent. Got some examples of some problem units for you?

I generali do not like the damage 2 weapons.
-1 to hit is too common and too effective if faced.

I 'm a choppa and rokkits guy. And there is a lot of situation, when S5 of beastsnaggas choppas can make a difference agains S4 of boyz choppas.

Jidmah mats is interesting…


Another side not - boyz + painboy + go to the ground + ard as nails => T5 -1 to wound 4+/6++/5+++ and regeain few boyz back. Outside the waagh.

That cost 2 CP but can definitely make some opponents very sad and change their plans….


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Do I understand right the reason why some takes Snikrot?

To take Fix Secondary, choose Establish Locus + some killy one depending o the opponent and make a gameplan around this?

Because
- drop and kill is 9” charge nonsence
- you can hold objective with another units cheaper
- there are is just about 5 secondaries, where he can be usefull thanks his teleporting ability and thanks he is small loenly operativ hard to shoot at during makeing the actions.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
And the another creative brainwave:

Have you ever tried to play succesfully without the Grots?

Because of you have one Boyz, you can make the home objective without holding and than it is just about screening the home objective. If there is something that can drop, you can screen with some Koptas or Stormboyz and use tham later in T4 and T5..

Eee. That is propably a stupid idea,….

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 Forceride wrote:
I gonna say something divisive. But i believe the beast boss on foot time is over. There simply too much things getting the -1 treatment and dev wounds for 1 damage does not cut it.. Hell i am reconsidering nobz.. and i been playing them both since the start of edition.

I've not encountered this issue, but it may be meta/opponent dependent. Got some examples of some problem units for you?

Might be my meta, currently makes me face -1 to damage a plenty. But this came to light with the Ultramarine game. Both dread and vixtrix guard had it. I realized, I been noticing the rule pop up more and more and becoming way more prevalent.

Just last week, i noticed that the Nighbringer also had received it. In addition to the other buffs, it was making it a really hard brick to shift.

Until today there were only like a few units that i need to care, but they were expensive and or just required careful piloting. I see them way more, and they make the army that is D2 dependent inefficient, not joking, it made me think what i would do if i had to play vs 6 or 7 units in the front with -1, how i would move and deal with them.. and slowly i realized i had very few options. Most my options were to pile in mass of attacks or set Ghaz on them... for a unit that costed a fraction of Ghaz retinue. Here was the issue, in a game orks need to be hyper efficient because we neither have defenses or datasheets to match our opponents, we need efficiency by points. Lose that and best i can think is just dump 240+ boyz on my opponent and tell him to deal with it... I don't have 240 boyz though

Anyway this was my impression and thought's considering that all your meta's might be very different. But if i was rocking ultramarines with those rules and some of the detach plus the CP that's what i would do since it denies a very large chunk of weapons in the meta.

I know Rockets are a good support but they need to sink the points and rules to make them viable. So i went breaka boyz as the tip of the spear.

C’Tan actually went from Half Damage to -1 Damage. So they got nerfed in the specific area.

Those units are actually one of the reasons I bring tankbustas every game. The other is 3W elite infantry.

Damage 3 weapons have become a necessary part of every army I build, irrespective of faction. It's just a tool you need to have to kill certain things that is not easily substituted by something else - especially with orks where high volume, high AP weapons are pretty much non-existent.

 JNAProductions wrote:
C’Tan actually went from Half Damage to -1 Damage. So they got nerfed in the specific area.

It's true, but the Nightbringer traded a very powerfull rule for a lesser one and gained more speed an damage. While retaining it's over all durability and it's save went to 3. So if you look closer it is a net win because, sure it becomes weaker to d6 weapons, but a lot tougher against everything else while being faster and more threatening. It forces you to think how to move around it.

A lot of meta revolves around things like that. Nightbringuer is coming more and more out because of powerful rules and speed, while still having a decent price tag. I am looking at overall cohesion of the list versus single datasheet. The Nightbringer won't be alone and the new rules make him excel at it's role for it's price.

Meanwhile, i been thinking a bit more, and just realized that with -1 squighogs are dead in the bin, for 150pts their worthless with a single rule, might as well bring a dread. Same with Lootas, not worth 50pts as well, how can rubbish be even more rubbish . Anyway that's just my impression and thoughts i am sharing.

I agree with you as well Jim, maybe i never encountered until recently, but it was first time in the edition i felt piloting and careful tactics were trumped by a simple rule. I am not a fan of those things since it invalidates datasheets instead of adding variety. Honestly going to keep tabs on it, but i am not a fan.

 JNAProductions wrote:
C’Tan actually went from Half Damage to -1 Damage. So they got nerfed in the specific area.

While technically true, their other durability buffs more than make up the difference similar to Knights losing toughness. I think its something flat damage 5 or 6 where they actually take fewer attacks to kill than before. Everything else they're more survivable against.

I know. Their special rule was nerfed, but they are very much buffed overall.

Absolutely gree with dameg 2 vs damge 3 weapons. I see as a great pain PKs are now just DMG2

Despite what we say here is right, all lists in CI' s from this weeks mass Nobz with PKs and Flashgitz, because… simply too point effective and not all target have -1 ap.. The fact is that dmg2 weapon units tend to be cheap.

Lets check it:

The NOTTINGHAM 40K SUPER-MAJOR
Ben Jones - this is a pure antagonist of we agreed there last week - that it is a good idea to mix shooting and melee in war tribe. Mighty Ben decided to ignore our great advises and went full melee - 3 x breka boyz, 3 x nobz, 5 x MANz + ghazzy and 4 warbosess (one in MA). No Boyz, no Big Mek. Wagon and 2 Trukks to take this group to the fight. My guess = Nobz + Breaka + one warboss in a Trukks, ghazzy + same team in Wagon. MANs and grots and kommandos control the table / screen.




Grand Onslaught 11
Brandon VDE - if you mean it with the agresive forward gameplans seriously, that is something for you. 2 squads of Kommandos and Huge blob of supergrots for the beginning. My guess, one of the leaded by Snikrot. Ghazzy + weirdboy + 20 boyz and nice shooting. - two swuads of SAG + tankbustas and one Mek Kaptin MA BIGMEK + Flashgitz. Just a simple Trukk for who knows who and a pure melee Deff Dread!

Done some more tweaking to the list, finally decided to axe the Squighogs in favour of more AP by switching to Trukk + mega nobs. Turns out that Mega Boss/Mega Nobs/Trukk have a pretty similar set of defensive attributes as Mozrog/Hogs. I'm losing out on D3 and D4 with the loss of Mozrog, but gaining consistent AP-3 on the Kill Saws, which at the moment for me is more beneficial as there isn't a huge amount of -1 damage in my meta.

Thoughts are appreciated.

 Tomsug wrote:
Despite what we say here is right, all lists in CI' s from this weeks mass Nobz with PKs and Flashgitz, because… simply too point effective and not all target have -1 ap.. The fact is that dmg2 weapon units tend to be cheap.

PKs are a great all-round profile that is good against a wide range of target. For brawler type melee units, it's the best compromise between good wound rolls, decent AP, good number of attacks and decent damage. Sure, there are defensive profiles which shrug them off, but they are rare. Profiles like smashhammers, killsaws or squighogs are much more specialized and perform much better if they hit the right target, but tend to fall flat on their faces if are charged into the wrong target or intercepted.

It's really a flexibility vs raw power tradeoff that, thanks to rather decent internal balance, each one can decide for themselves.

I took Ben Jomes Wartirbe War Tribe list and gave it a try.

BW and 2xTRK
In each of them sits Breaka Boyz, Nobz, Warboss + Ghazzy in BW.
5 x MANz + MA Warboss + Follow me Ladz
3 x Grots and 1 x Kommandos do a support.

I faced Eldar, tons of fast infantry, 2 squads of Banshess with some char, single walker and a single squad of these dragone melta dudes.

First +1 for this list is “LEADER choose the unit depending the opponent” trick. Warbosses leads either BreakaBoyz or Nobz. You choose this during the reserve and transport phase! I choose Nobz obviously…

On this point I found one -1 of this list - there is Warboss and Ghazzy in the BW, so both - Nobz and BreakaBoyz have a leader, which seems to be little bit a waste? This 75p coupd be a Snikrot for secondaries or Stormboyz maybe?


Deployment - infiltration battle. I choose to delay him as much as possible, openly sacrificy the kommandos and made a roadblock chain 9” as much as possible and because of his moving combos, I made another line of screen from extra grots you have in this list.

MANz start in front right behind some ruins, wagon too, trukks more or less too. Pretty agresive but thanks dense terrain all out of line of fire.

Opening stage of the game:
Eldar scout moves and go first, kill my kommandos but stuck there, however press himself on all objectives. Witch was expected and welcome. His scouts roadblock few “ of my deploy and block my whole right flank. Not welcomed.

Half of his is now in the midfield, but mostly few “ behind the half of the table. Waaagh T1 is mandatory.

Center objective - MANz with follow me ladz advance very nice forward for 3” charge. BBs jumps from the Bw and Trukk on the roadblocked side of the table, move and Squigbomb the roadblock to oblivion. This open advance and charge lines for ghazzy and all nobz there incl. the BW.

Left side is harder. Fight first banches sits behind the wall nocharge distance. I send there nobz with the warboss to kill them witch was very stupid idea and they die.

Charges in midfield are devastating for the Eldars, Manz succesfully orbit himself to his second line behind the ruins and wreak havoc. Ghazzy and the nobz clean midfield, some BBs die on overwatch from flamers and wagon and BBs charge the third midfield objective and kill about half of eldars there. Second half should be killed by last nobz, but despite the reroll they failed 6” charge…

Eldar strikes back, kill few Manz, a lot of Nobz, struggle to do anything to wagon.

My T2 I clean all midfield objectives, lost ghazzy and Manz kill a lot but suffer. On the end it seems 50:50

He lost lost of his infatry (like 2,5 weaker squads left, no banchess), i have 1 MAN + MA Warboss on the edge with his deploy, brand new BBs on one objective, one new Nobz pn second, trukks, bw in midfield and 1 grots in my deploy.

We called it in this moment, because it was late and friends was waiting for us in the pub

General:
- Big block of MANz with Follow me ladz was very good, did a damage and was pain to kill.
- Nobz generali underperfomed. Die fast, not great at killing.
- Your army has a small footprint. Which is very good. You can actually hide during all phases. Not like with the 20boyz or 8 squigrider bricks.
- MORTAL RAIN - 3x bombsquigs, grenades and Tankshock really make an impact. Showel your fight first in your Eldar whatever you have
- my secondaries was pathetic. There was no units in my army to do some actions, so in T1,2 I scored almost nothing. This list is designed to punch and either screen againts deepstrike (i did because of his DS dudes) or do maybe some of the secodnaries, but definitely not both.

I think i prefer manz in a truck like afrodactyl mentioned, full saw for twin linked and boss in mega amour but in warhorde for the sustained.

It begs the question if it's worth it in wombo combo i bring.

The other thing is you should expect your nobz and breaka boyz to die, if they die before the charge is the red flag, if they charge then die is fine. Damage is done. Their hit and forget weapons.

The units i would look to survive are things like manz where most their points are in survival.

I also found odd your eldar opponent did not brought things like fugan and reapers witch if well played melt the waggons. Or swooping hawks things with that stupid nad ability which is the nad strat on steroids.

The fact he did not use deep strikes of 6 to threaten your backfield raises an eyebrow... Anyway that's what i expect from knife hears... freaking underhand play and movement shenanigans. With insane damage when well executed. Mass infantry the way you describe is weird, sounds like a marine player using eldar.l

He had Swooping Hawks but with such bunch of grots to screen I had, he had nowhere to drop.

To be honest - I just getting into 10th ed after long break And I made a terrible mistakes so the fact I almost tabled him T2 indicates, he was not a super sharp opponent.

Anyway - I made an iteration of Ben Jones lost that fits me better and gave it a try again eldar an IG and it seems I have my new list that I 'm happy with.

I simply kicked out 2 Nobz and hired 2 Flash Gitz instead (reflection of our previous discusion) and used the spare points to kick out one of the grots and hire a regular squad of Boyz.

So now I screen home objective T1 with the sticky Boyz and then catapult them with the emptied transports forward in the T2-4 to do a serious damage in later game.

Flashgitz helps with some kind of targets and standing behind also help with the screen.

I m proud and happy see what happens in the next games.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
Few more notes:

- sometimes it is better to load the trukks with the grots and keep Breakaboyz and Flashgitz on the table. Then in T1 catapult the grots forward to screen the midfield and load the Gitz and BreakaBoyz and drive as usually.

Generali, I really like how man can play with the transports. This is a great video btw

https://youtu.be/EOVNS_x1dME?si=ThAWvRr7V-WtqE9x

First I guessed this dude is actual Jidmah IRL but then I found video dude is from Austria, not Germany

- I' put the Squigriders on the shelf. The main reason is = in the big squad they are too big to play. You cannot actually hide them even on the super dense terrains. And they are too slow to navigate fast around.

Haha
His channel is pure gold though, just watching his videos has vastly improved my game. He is a much better player than I am.

I agree, his channel is pretty good. I haven't seen one going over triggers, something that is also very nebulous fr pro and noobs alike.