Our Codex is da biggest an da best! - Orks 10th Edition Tactics

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**Afrodactyl**

It looks like it would make for a fun themed list, but I don't think it will be better than WH or our other competitive builds.

**Tomsug**

Olé it is out! Freboota Krew!

https://youtu.be/ZZugsQ7dwX4

Edit: aargh you were faster

**Grimskul**

Looks like I called it with it being a Freeboota detachment!

It definitely feels like it has a bit of an identity crisis since it clearly wants to have a mix of both choppy and shooty in its strategems and enhancements, but it doesn't seem to do either very well. I can see this being a fluffy choice to do during Crusade, but as far as competitive stuff goes, I think the Loot objective mechanic is a bit limiting since you have to telegraph which objective is going to be the Loot and in some mission set ups it's going to be better than others in terms of which central objective you fight over and it really leaves your other units effectively without a detachment rule for most of the game if they have to engage with enemy units that aren't in range of that objective, which for some armies like marines with their repuslor executioners or eldar with fire prisms, basically means you don't get anything against them.

The main standouts for me is giving blast to all weapons for one unit, since that can rack up a lot of shots depending on if you're able to drop it on the right unit at the right time.

The sad part is that Flash Gitz are still better taken as part of the taktikal brigade with the Mek Kaptin over what this detachment provides, which feels like a really big missed opportunity.

**Jidmah**

So, number 3) it is

Honestly, outside of bioniks being a silly fun option for crusade enhancements, this is pretty much all garbage.

Nice call with the pirate theme though.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Forceride wrote:
I think it has some legs and combos well with perma waghh Ghaz... but i think it's weaker then warhorde?

The timing of the stratagem and selecting looted objective kind of ruins that combo. In order for a to benefit from that combo, it has to already be on that objective at the beginning of your turn and you usually block yourself from using the rerolls to wound stratagem.

**Tomsug**

Similar issue like with the Da Big Hunt. Restriction on targets cripple the gameplay.

I ' m happy. No changes for me. I van continue to play my warhorde

**Afrodactyl**

I think this detachment is probably best suited to making your home objective the loot one, then sticking a big unit of lootas on it with a Git Finder Squig SAG Mek and popping deck fraggers.

Lots of buffs to put on to a unit that blasts something expensive off of the board and then promptly gets vaporised in return.

Or you stick a mek and a stompa on it, I dunno

**LunarSol**

You get to change the objective each round. The main problem is much like how GW can't get the Waaagh! right, this means going first dramatically impacts how useful the detachment is.

**Beardedragon**

20 grots with zodgrod and their 2 trusty runtherds get 115 shots with deck fragger if they shoot in to a 20 man unit. And they still have their +1 to hit and +1 to wound.

That is hilarious

Furthermore if you have 20 boys and a weirdboy shooting in to a unit of 20 what ever, you get 5 precision weirdboy shots dealing 5 damage each

This strat is so goofy and wild

**Tomsug**

That is cool. However, how often do you shoot in to something with 20 models?

**Jidmah**

Tomsug wrote:
That is cool. However, how often do you shoot in to something with 20 models?

I have this one tyranid veteran in my group who still hasn't adapted his mindset to 10th edition...

But to be fair, the stratagem still does impressive things when you shoot 10+ models, but one stratagem is not enough to carry a detachment.

**Beardedragon**

The grot thing was mainly, that i think you would often run Zodgrod if you run the freebootas krew. Just to let people not sleep on the fact that you could absolutely shoot things in to oblivion with grots, if you dont want to activate your other shooting units, maybe keep them safe for another wave.

Mostly 1 wound 20 model count units. If you shoot in to a 20 man blob of zerkers i would 100% still take my lootas with ignore cover character, or flash gitz.

**Boris420**

Does anyone else have a bunch of boyz with BIG shootas & wish they had their own mob? Something in between regular shootas, Lootas & Flash gitz as far as infantry dakka. Maybe a unit of 10 with spanner?

**Grimskul**

Boris420 wrote:
Does anyone else have a bunch of boyz with BIG shootas & wish they had their own mob? Something in between regular shootas, Lootas & Flash gitz as far as infantry dakka. Maybe a unit of 10 with spanner?

I think the problem is that as fun as that might sound, unless they fundamentally change what the big shoota profile looks like, or if this unit has some kind of funky datasheet ability that gives it utility, it would basically never be taken over what you just mentioned. A bunch of S5 AP0 D1 shots at BS5+, even in large volumes, will basically do little to nothing and even against chaff barely do the bare minimum in clearing screens that is up to the whims of dice to determine if you've cleared them.

Big shootas and shootas in general need a baseline overhaul since as anti-infantry weapons they just don't do enough compared to the choppa, which is funny given how this was reversed back to shoota supremacy during 5th - 7th edition. The extra wound for marines and ubiquity of cover for most infantry is such that we need something for the big shoota to do other than hope it plinks off 1-2 wounds a turn. Giving them assault and sustained hits 1 baseline would go a long way of making them be more meaningful, with AP-1 for big shootas since they're not even D2 like their equivalents for the heavy bolter or shuriken cannon.

**Jidmah**

Agree. Without any AP they are fairly meanless. My DG's reaper autocannons are fairly bad weapons, but at least they are worth shooting. Big shootas getting AP-1 and devastating wounds would at least give them a purpose.

That said, GW already stated that for next edition would overhaul the cover/terrain system, maybe AP0 weapon aren't the equivalent of "doesn't have a weapon" next edition anymore.

**Boris420**

Jidmah wrote:
Agree. Without any AP they are fairly meanless. My DG's reaper autocannons are fairly bad weapons, but at least they are worth shooting. Big shootas getting AP-1 and devastating wounds would at least give them a purpose.

That said, GW already stated that for next edition would overhaul the cover/terrain system, maybe AP0 weapon aren't the equivalent of "doesn't have a weapon" next edition anymore.

Thanks Jidmah! I really appreciate you bud, as well as everyone else that contributes! Especially codex to codex with your unit reviews! Man I miss those!

**Grimskul**

Any major thoughts on if your respective gaming groups will try out the Maelstrom Crucible rules for characters? I feel like it's really made for Crusade than anything else, but it's nice to have Grot character leaders that aren't the Red Gobbo units, even if they're not great (extended grot jail is interesting though if you combo this with Zogrod Wortsnagga).

I feel like if anything it's just so we have some leader units now for stuff that doesn't formally have models so I can use my Zagstruk model for stormboyz, my old biker Big Mek with KFF with my Warbikerz. There's definitely missed opportunities to have a Mega Armour Hordeboss or having a Deff Dread Walker character for Dred Mob. I'm just happy we can have a little bit more flexibility in terms of wargear, having a tankhammer on a Warboss sounds like fun.

**ccs**

Grimskul wrote:
Any major thoughts on if your respective gaming groups will try out the Maelstrom Crucible rules for characters? I feel like it's really made for Crusade than anything else, but it's nice to have Grot character leaders that aren't the Red Gobbo units, even if they're not great (extended grot jail is interesting though if you combo this with Zogrod Wortsnagga).

Oh we'll definitely be using the Crucible in our next Crusade.

Grimskul wrote:
I feel like if anything it's just so we have some leader units now for stuff that doesn't formally have models so I can use my Zagstruk model for stormboyz, my old biker Big Mek with KFF with my Warbikerz. There's definitely missed opportunities to have a Mega Armour Hordeboss or having a Deff Dread Walker character for Dred Mob. I'm just happy we can have a little bit more flexibility in terms of wargear, having a tankhammer on a Warboss sounds like fun.

No. All this is is End of the Edition slop.
10e is effectively over, but they still need to sell books/models for the next 4 months until 11th drops.
That you can use this stuff to make leaders for various units (but remember, only with your opponents permission!) is nice, but don't get too attached to it.

**Andykp**

We are going to be using them, ordered a nob on smasha squig already to convert up! They seem great and characterful but not crazy overpowered. I’m sure there will be some power combos in there but hopefully it’s just going to be making us convert more.

**Jidmah**

Grimskul wrote:
Any major thoughts on if your respective gaming groups will try out the Maelstrom Crucible rules for characters? I feel like it's really made for Crusade than anything else, but it's nice to have Grot character leaders that aren't the Red Gobbo units, even if they're not great (extended grot jail is interesting though if you combo this with Zogrod Wortsnagga).

I feel like if anything it's just so we have some leader units now for stuff that doesn't formally have models so I can use my Zagstruk model for stormboyz, my old biker Big Mek with KFF with my Warbikerz. There's definitely missed opportunities to have a Mega Armour Hordeboss or having a Deff Dread Walker character for Dred Mob. I'm just happy we can have a little bit more flexibility in terms of wargear, having a tankhammer on a Warboss sounds like fun.

They are fairly badly balanced, so even for crusade they are quite useless. Some of the combos in there are so busted, we already had to ban the whole thing for our crusade.

Interesting things for orks I found
- Biker boss with 'uge choppa allows you to bring back the feel of old bikerbosses
- Hordeboss with Mek Keyword enables Flash Gits or Kommados to benefit from dread mob.
- Squighog wurrboy, painboy and big mek builds
- You can have +1 to hit on squighogs again
- Better pain boys
- Hordeboss+Bike+snazzgun+KFF = Wazzdakka

**Beardedragon**

I will not be using the crucible of champions, given i only really play matched play and tournament play.

And i highly doubt they will be using the Crucible of Champions at danish tournaments.

**Forceride**

The more i play with a friend of mine that is going to a tournament.. the less i like the beast boss with beast boyz.. Their just too fragile.. I also want more and more flamers and i am considering a trio of minimal kans with skorchas...

Also Jidmah.. if your right and they change cover, that's both good and bad news... shooting is just overpowered, so we will need a nerf on it's damage output or we will just go back to 9th and hide behind cover.

Honestly i think at least on our side i just want waagghh to be less tilted in having a turn where all our damage and defenses are concentrated and then goes away.

My ppoint of view waaghh just giving something like advance and charge or even also assault would be good enough! The rest of extra stats going to the data-sheets would be a lot better.

**Beardedragon**

I just want the waaagh to be sort of what it was in the previous edition: It should last two turns.

And there should absolutely be given assault for most guns also otherwise we are stuck with what we do now, we wont pick units that can both fight and shoot, because we will rarely be shooting.

I want to run in and shoot my sluggas and my gorkanauts while advancing and charging.

**Forceride**

Beardedragon wrote:
I just want the waaagh to be sort of what it was in the previous edition: It should last two turns.

And there should absolutely be given assault for most guns also otherwise we are stuck with what we do now, we wont pick units that can both fight and shoot, because we will rarely be shooting.

I want to run in and shoot my sluggas and my gorkanauts while advancing and charging.

I am not going to be absolute greedy for the 2 round duration... but i agree that kind of mobility and flexibility would allow a lot of list's to do a lot more things then normal and also avoid skewed lists of only melee or only dakka.

**Jidmah**

On the weekend I literally had my first game ever where kanz did something!

I played my best friend's tau and he totally loves killa kanz. Someone on reddit commented that they always bring them in via rapid ingress, so I wanted to try that.

Army was obviously dread mob, with deff dreads, gorkanaut, SAG/tankbust/posa trukks and a kill rig with beastboss and boyz inside.

It was a super messy game, the dreads couldn't leave my deployment zone since there was a hammerhead parked with view on the one choke point they had to get through, so I made them hold backfield objectives instend. This in turn ruined my friend's plan to take those objectives with breachers so he had to bring in a riptide and crisis suits to take care of them which then turned into an all-out brawl with buzz saws.

In turn 3 one of the SAGs one-shot the hammerhand from across the board, dealing 17 damage to it. Hussah!

While that was going on, it rapid ingressed the kanz really close to his deployment zone, next to an objective, which forces his lone operatives to run from them. The turn after, I had hot dice for sustained hits and +1 attack on their rokkits which obliterated a coldstar and then tied up all his broadsides in combat, neutering them for a total of 3 turns.
Rapid ingress essentially negated all the issues with their giant bases, low range and slow movement, so I can definitely advise you to try if you are bringing kanz.

You might wonder about the kill rig, which was an experiment. While boyz with meks would obviously have been better than beast snaggas, battlewagons are kind of meh in dreadmob. Meanwhile the killrig is a good model even with zero support and the strength buff is quite nice to throw on nearby dread or naut. That said, I mostly used the beastsnaggas to bully tau off objectives and then stand around on them, so maybe a wurrboy or painboss might be a better fit for that role. With all the walkers stomping around, the beastchoppa wasn't really needed.

Until start of turn 4, it was a really close game but turn 5 primaries gave me a 15 point swing for the win, with the naut simply refusing to die to six railguns while being repaired for 3 wounds every single turn.

**Afrodactyl**

Forceride wrote:
The more i play with a friend of mine that is going to a tournament.. the less i like the beast boss with beast boyz.. Their just too fragile.. I also want more and more flamers and i am considering a trio of minimal kans with skorchas...

What does your list look like? And is there anything else you don't like about them?

Caveat for the following: I play my list super aggressively, generally overcommit everything into the midboard early, and go for a haymaker with everything on turn 2. It's ride or die, and I've either done enough by the end of turn 2 to win or I'm getting rolled off the board. Please take the below with a big pinch of salt because what works for me might not work for everyone else.

I think Snagga Boyz are fine for their cost and role. They're a reasonably cheap delivery system for a Beastboss, that do decent damage in melee, even if only through volume of attacks, and especially with sustained in war horde. They die fairly easily but I've found it's to a non-trivial amount of firepower. With T5, a 5+ and a 6+ FNP, I feel like they always take slightly more commitment to wipe out than they probably should. A handful of cursory bolters or stubbers aren't going to worry them. And quite frankly if they're committing extra weapons at my Snagga boys, it's a gun not being pointed at something else.

Are they going to last a game on an objective? Gork/Mork no, they'll be lucky to last a turn or two. Sometimes they bounce off of their intended targets, but that's true of everything in our codex.

Like a lot of things in our codex, I think Snagga Boys need to be used en masse and with their supporting characters. I use 30 snaggas and 3 Beastbosses and so far haven't had any major upsets. If I only had points for one unit of them I'd probably just take regular boys or grots or something as they're cheaper and have different utility features.

On the other point you raised, I too would like to get more Burnas/Skorchas in my list but don't have the points for it. If I could replace every single instance of a big shoota in my list with a burna/Skorchas I'd do it in a heartbeat. Kanz could be an interesting choice as they have decent bulk and okay melee attacks as well.

**Beardedragon**

Forceride wrote:
Beardedragon wrote:
I just want the waaagh to be sort of what it was in the previous edition: It should last two turns.

And there should absolutely be given assault for most guns also otherwise we are stuck with what we do now, we wont pick units that can both fight and shoot, because we will rarely be shooting.

I want to run in and shoot my sluggas and my gorkanauts while advancing and charging.

I am not going to be absolute greedy for the 2 round duration... but i agree that kind of mobility and flexibility would allow a lot of list's to do a lot more things then normal and also avoid skewed lists of only melee or only dakka.

I didnt mean two full turns of waagh, but how you had some rules still going the second round.

First round: advance and charge, assault
+1 attack, +1 strength for melee and 5++

Next turn:
+1 attack and strength for melee and a 6++

**Jidmah**

I don't know, I would rather have that power budget spread on unit base lines.

Instead I would like to have the Speedwaagh! back and maybe an additional dakkastorm which both replace the standard Waaagh!.

I really enjoy being able to pick my DG contagions based on my opponent/list.

**Afrodactyl**

It would be nice if we got the Waaagh as default, but then at list building stage could swap it for Speedwaaagh or Dakkawaaagh to fit the 3 major Ork archetypes

**Forceride**

Afrodactyl wrote:
What does your list look like? And is there anything else you don't like about them?

Spoiler:

I been mulling over the game and have come to the conclusion i made some serious mistakes, still i think flame trucks would be better.
Mission was hidden supplies with map of circle in center with deploys in corners.
Opponent was nids. Invasion fleet also playing pressure list.

Afrodactyl wrote:
I think Snagga Boyz are fine for their cost and role. They're a reasonably cheap delivery system for a Beastboss, that do decent damage in melee, even if only through volume of attacks, and especially with sustained in war horde. They die fairly easily but I've found it's to a non-trivial amount of firepower. With T5, a 5+ and a 6+ FNP, I feel like they always take slightly more commitment to wipe out than they probably should. A handful of cursory bolters or stubbers aren't going to worry them. And quite frankly if they're committing extra weapons at my Snagga boys, it's a gun not being pointed at something else.

That is true, their great at delivery, but when facing people used to ork's, they know S4 weapons are useless, so they will use different tools, my experience, to avoid this, is putting them inside trucks as a extra protection, i am starting to think they need to start on foot but that raises other issues of mobility while making them cheaper. It's all about points, if going on foot you want to raise the number of boyz, but that opens other issues while making them expensive... The biggest issue i got is they bleed wounds like crazy, and while the boss is good he is not "that" good.

Afrodactyl wrote:
On the other point you raised, I too would like to get more Burnas/Skorchas in my list but don't have the points for it. If I could replace every single instance of a big shoota in my list with a burna/Skorchas I'd do it in a heartbeat. Kanz could be an interesting choice as they have decent bulk and okay melee attacks as well.

YES! Do it one day, bring a flame truck one day, even with no support it costs 190points, is really cheap for 20W unit, you can even add a mek, those buggers pistol is wild and it buffs the guns from the truck
I am considering this instead, also following some Jidmah advice

Spoiler:

Beardedragon wrote:
I didnt mean two full turns of waagh, but how you had some rules still going the second round.

First round: advance and charge, assault
+1 attack, +1 strength for melee and 5++

Next turn:
+1 attack and strength for melee and a 6++

Not sure it would be a good idea, that would mean the same we have now where our power comes from faction rule, this in turn would weaken our datasheets, frankly would rather have decent datasheets with a mobility rule.

Jidmah wrote:
You might wonder about the kill rig, which was an experiment. While boyz with meks would obviously have been better than beast snaggas, battlewagons are kind of meh in dreadmob. Meanwhile the killrig is a good model even with zero support and the strength buff is quite nice to throw on nearby dread or naut. That said, I mostly used the beastsnaggas to bully tau off objectives and then stand around on them, so maybe a wurrboy or painboss might be a better fit for that role. With all the walkers stomping around, the beastchoppa wasn't really needed.

Yeah, kill rig is pretty good on itself, not good enough to bring multiples but if you can squeeze one, it forces opponent to think, meanwhile it has a lot of wounds to make him scratch his head, biggest downside is profile. Oh and the melee profile is deceptively bad if anyone asks, for something that want's to be melee it aint great at it.

**Jidmah**

Fully agree on the kill rig.

I've been experimenting with snaggas in both battlewagons and kill rigs recently, need to try the hunta rig as well.

In my experience, the wagon is more durable and can tank-shock, while the wurr tower and lobba's shooting have had noticeable impact on the game, and the strength buff is nice as well.

I'm going to run them side by side next game, let's see which one does better