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Cover is -1 to hit though. Let's hope the rules have some way to mitigate ork shooting dropping by 50% against units in cover.

 Jidmah wrote:
Cover is -1 to hit though. Let's hope the rules have some way to mitigate ork shooting dropping by 50% against units in cover.

The rules should mitigate it by making -1 to hit not a thing.

 TedNugent wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
Cover is -1 to hit though. Let's hope the rules have some way to mitigate ork shooting dropping by 50% against units in cover.

The rules should mitigate it by making -1 to hit not a thing.

Too late for that. Maybe in 12th....

We dont know much about 11th edition. Lets wait with being gloomy about ork shooting before we have all the details.

Dont get me wrong it could turn out really bad for us, but maybe it wont. We know almost nothing.

We could also have internal ork balancing that mitigates a lot of -1BS issues, that isnt written in the terrain and core rules.

Guys, if the game has -1 to hit, there is always some get +1 to hit.

If the mek can even still do that in 11th

It's possible they even just raise our baseline BS to 4+ instead of BS 5+ if this is how they're setting it up to be. Unlikely, but it's not like they haven't changed Ork stats before (e.g T4 to T5).

Beardedragon wrote:
We dont know much about 11th edition. Lets wait with being gloomy about ork shooting before we have all the details.

Dont get me wrong it could turn out really bad for us, but maybe it wont. We know almost nothing.

We could also have internal ork balancing that mitigates a lot of -1BS issues, that isnt written in the terrain and core rules.

I agree. Orks are getting a brand new codex right out of the gate, so at least the surface problems should be addressed. Unlike in past edition we have actual ork players on the rules team.

And even if everything fails, GW will add stuff to fix the codex over the course of the edition. I'm not worried yet.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Grimskul wrote:
It's possible they even just raise our baseline BS to 4+ instead of BS if this is how they're setting it up to be. Unlikely, but it's not like they haven't changed Ork stats before (e.g T4 to T5).

It's also possible that they give us an army rule that always makes ork always hit on a 5+ or they spread sustained hits everywhere so sixes are more valuable than fives. There are plenty of ways to address this issue.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/lxzwueun/new40k-terrain-objectives-make-the-battlefield-your-mission/?fbclid=IwdGRleARGGk5leHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeg1e5sw3cOfZOPDib8dCltgprfKKYDqkxy3Lw43FtZyU1Xs1u8xGhNWU2xUo_aem_dZD6ygSCwY2yzGUgoHXgyQ

Maybe more space for moving our battlewagons and buggies

 Tomsug wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/lxzwueun/new40k-terrain-objectives-make-the-battlefield-your-mission/?fbclid=IwdGRleARGGk5leHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeg1e5sw3cOfZOPDib8dCltgprfKKYDqkxy3Lw43FtZyU1Xs1u8xGhNWU2xUo_aem_dZD6ygSCwY2yzGUgoHXgyQ

Maybe more space for moving our battlewagons and buggies

Yeah, it'll be interesting on seeing how big the footprint is for most of those objectives since that can make our grots even more useful than they already are letting us tip toe onto the objective but stay with our baby lone op or being obscured by Terrain. That any vehicle heavy list for either Speed Freeks or Walkers will have more flexibility than feeling as bottlenecked as we are now for smaller terrain we have to walk around.

 Grimskul wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/lxzwueun/new40k-terrain-objectives-make-the-battlefield-your-mission/?fbclid=IwdGRleARGGk5leHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeg1e5sw3cOfZOPDib8dCltgprfKKYDqkxy3Lw43FtZyU1Xs1u8xGhNWU2xUo_aem_dZD6ygSCwY2yzGUgoHXgyQ

Maybe more space for moving our battlewagons and buggies

Yeah, it'll be interesting on seeing how big the footprint is for most of those objectives since that can make our grots even more useful than they already are letting us tip toe onto the objective but stay with our baby lone op or being obscured by Terrain. That any vehicle heavy list for either Speed Freeks or Walkers will have more flexibility than feeling as bottlenecked as we are now for smaller terrain we have to walk around.

Footprints were in the previous article with a list of dimensions at the bottom:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/xlppkx5s/new40k-take-cover-with-updated-terrain-rules/

In both of the layouts show the objectives are the big 7x11.5" areas. The center objective is the two triangles combined for a 10x11.5" square.

 LunarSol wrote:

 Grimskul wrote:

 Tomsug wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/lxzwueun/new40k-terrain-objectives-make-the-battlefield-your-mission/?fbclid=IwdGRleARGGk5leHRuA2FlbQIxMQBzcnRjBmFwcF9pZAo2NjI4NTY4Mzc5AAEeg1e5sw3cOfZOPDib8dCltgprfKKYDqkxy3Lw43FtZyU1Xs1u8xGhNWU2xUo_aem_dZD6ygSCwY2yzGUgoHXgyQ

Maybe more space for moving our battlewagons and buggies

Yeah, it'll be interesting on seeing how big the footprint is for most of those objectives since that can make our grots even more useful than they already are letting us tip toe onto the objective but stay with our baby lone op or being obscured by Terrain. That any vehicle heavy list for either Speed Freeks or Walkers will have more flexibility than feeling as bottlenecked as we are now for smaller terrain we have to walk around.

Footprints were in the previous article with a list of dimensions at the bottom:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/xlppkx5s/new40k-take-cover-with-updated-terrain-rules/

In both of the layouts show the objectives are the big 7x11.5" areas. The center objective is the two triangles combined for a 10x11.5" square.

Ah gotcha, must have missed that in my first skim through the article, thanks for clarifying! Pretty sizable terrain footprints then, it'll be interesting seeing how much differently it plays in practice.

I think the biggest change is how and where you move. Instead of going around big terrain pieces for most units, we will actively going into them. I also expect OC to matter a lot more, since multiple units on objectives will be a lot more common.
I could imagine our horde units will do quite well, as we can easily get a load of OC2 models stuck into whatever is going in in a ruin.

Rules for Wazdakka is out:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/g6f0lbmk/wazdakka-gutsmek-rules-revealed-launch-your-own-speedwaaagh/

Looks like we got a Lone Op Biker Boss with some pretty solid melee (flat 3 damage, lance and 2+ to hit for his Power Klaw), and lots of mobility options with the choice he has for his bike engine for extra mobility or redployment. The proof will be in the pudding in terms of how how much he is for points. It's too bad he can't join Warbikers but at least he does make them battleline.

I think the main problem is that we really don't have a "hammer" unit for Speed Freeks as far as melee goes now that Nob Bikerz have been Legends' out, so even if he could lead a unit, Warbikerz by themselves don't have enough punch to warrant anything outside of being ablative wounds for Wazdakka if he was able to join them.

Am I reading the data sheet right, or can Wazdakka shoot in melee due to being a vehicle?

And he has Deep Strike?

The Bikerboss missile of old might be back

Wow, he is so insanely good, I doubt they will find a points cost where he isn't and auto-include in pretty much every list.

Combined with Yarrik being able to order baneblades, I think they are just escalating the end of edition into insanity again

Super fun. Weirdly does nothing in Kult of Speed but has good potential to show up everywhere.

Having a modular rule that includes a modular option is kind of funny to me.

 Jidmah wrote:
Wow, he is so insanely good, I doubt they will find a points cost where he isn't and auto-include in pretty much every list.

Combined with Yarrik being able to order baneblades, I think they are just escalating the end of edition into insanity again

Oh yeah, I think any semblance of balance mattering is clearly not a priority even as far back when they showed the initial rules for the new Twin Blade Tau characters and, like you said, Yarrick being absolutely slammed to the gills with special rules. Curious to see how much of this is going to carry over into 11th edition but it is nice for us

He's definitely our 11th ed reincarnation of the old Bikerboss missile like Afrodactyl is saying. And yes, he can shoot in combat as a vehicle! And with the stats on his gun, chaff definitely can't hold him up.

Great conversion opportunity this seems to be autoinclide missile. I hope, he would be cheaper than ghazzy

Warbikers battleline = you can take 6x6=36 warbikers

Oups.. a lot of bikers to paint

Don't. Seriously. The new codex is just two or three months away and running that many bikes might not be playable anymore once it drops.

Not to mention that ork warbikers are one of the most tedious models to paint in all of 40k...

I agree with Jid that you shouldn't start building or painting 36 bikers just because of Wazdakka. But if you already happen to have them, then go ahead

I also agree with Jid that if the power level of everything in our book stays about the same as it is now, Wazdakka is likely an auto include in almost every list. For me, he's an auto include if he's under 200 points.

I'm hoping that the Wazdakka sheet is indicative of things to come for 11th, and that by taking certain characters as your warlord you get to take certain units as battleline. They don't even need to be good, just fun and thematic to inject some flavour back into the game.

I'd love to see some really bonkers lists like Ghaz make Nobz battleline. I'd likely never run it, but that would be beyond fun.

Fight phase rules
https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/m3son4il/new40k-combat-changes-shake-up-fighting-in-the-new-edition/

Confirmation for nerfs on fight first. Charges are longer(they will fail more) but it's easier to fight.

Sry, i can't stay long, i been reading post and i think i agree much about what has been said. I think we are going the soritas route, Melee and Flamers. Still early though.

They put a 2+ BS on a shooting attack of an ork. At this point anything is possible

Blitz Brigade and Speed Freeks detachments.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/zd2usx9o/da-speedwaaagh-begins-with-two-new-ork-detachments/

While I could give an elaborate opinion on each, please excuse me while I change my list for Sunday into something that has two battlewagons, a kilrig and a gorkanaut (which is a transport).

 Jidmah wrote:
Blitz Brigade and Speed Freeks detachments.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/en-gb/articles/zd2usx9o/da-speedwaaagh-begins-with-two-new-ork-detachments/

While I could give an elaborate opinion on each, please excuse me while I change my list for Sunday into something that has two battlewagons, a kilrig and a gorkanaut (which is a transport).

Jidmah, I see you used the new detachment's rule and hit the turbo button and beat me to the punch in sharing this .

I also know you were an afficianado of the ol Blitz Brigade formation back in the day around 7th, so I know that it coming back in some way warms your Orky green heart, even if having a 3-5 battlewagon list is impractical for modern 40k.

I definitely feel the Blitz Brigade detachment is the more practical and interesting of the two, especially since we basically get a baby version of Ard as Nails for our big chonky transports who frankly don't have a lot of love stratagem wise this edition. Would have preferred getting assault ramps instead of what we got but I doubt GW would have given us that if Dark Eldar don't have it either.

Not sure how much the 24" turbo boost is going to do much for that detachment but I feel like it's going to be very map/setup dependent and how the board is set up in terms of terrain. So best used in more casual play groups where you can actually make it so you can use your rule versus being railroaded to only move 2 units a turn or so.

I feel like these are both definitely made in the context of 11th's detachment rules, since these both feel like 1 point detachments.

It is epic, however face to my ability to react to the new rules (almost ready for 10th) it seems I will skip this beautiful epic 2 months lasting speedfreek rules:(((

Very sad ork noises :(

I can see the 24" turbo having two uses:

1. Sending screens and blockers up the board turn 1, like Bikers or Snazzwagons. Even Kustom Boosta Blastas to thin out enemy screens

2. Late game objective pushes (especially with the Trike being able to go through terrain with the enhancement).

The two stratagems look really good though.

There's basically no world in which Turbo Boost works. You have to start the turn in the open which means your opponent had every opportunity to respond a million different ways and even then you're throwing effectively nothing upfield faster. If that was a viable strategy, we'd see a lot more flyers.

Turbo is clearly written for 11th with its reworked terrain and layouts.

Turbo boost might not be a no-brainer to use, but is far from useless.

Even with the stratagem, bikes are neither great fighters, nor great shots, nor are they particularly durable. Just like jump intercessors, their only role is grabbing objectives quickly and then die. None of the other speed freak units want to drive into the enemy as fast as possible either.

Instead, you can easily hide behind a ruin and then zap to another ruin or an objective if you set it up right. It will take some practice to use properly, but 24" is a lot of movement, NML objectives are just 12" from your deployment zone, there is plenty of space to deploy a unit out of range and/or sight and still be able to get there. With a wartrike, you can be as far away as 30" and still threaten an objective,

I see a lot of complaining from people about this across multiple channels, but most of those people clearly haven't actually used ork bikers in a game. Speed freaks haven't been about engaging combat ever since nob bikers were gutted, so not being able to turbo-boost through ruins is a rather minor concern.