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I think bringing BFF back epic is a great idea, setting in the 30k millennium is also fine but I think they’ve made it clear this is an extension of playing out the Horus Heresy. So no Xenos…..

I really hope that’s not how it plays out but I think that’s where is going.

Can you maybe wait until the launch before whinging about it?

The original game was launched with purely marines only and they expanded it pretty well.

Clickbait topics make all pandas sad. You don’t want to be responsible for sad pandas do you?

It’s called legions imperialis, I.e. legions of the imperium. I think that tells us everything.

But let me change the question, will you be disappointed if this game excludes non imperial fabctions

The rumour is that AI Xenos sales are so low they decided to just go Imperials for the Epic relaunch.

I'm more concerned about the lack of transports and terrain in the starter box.

mrFickle wrote:
It’s called legions imperialis, I.e. legions of the imperium. I think that tells us everything.

But let me change the question, will you be disappointed if this game excludes non imperial fabctions

I think you can only be really dissappointed if you let yourself get hyped up by rumour mill nonsense that was clearly way overblown for anyone with a sense of realism (Rangda! Orks! Great Crusade era setting with Alien forces nobody ever heard of before!) - a new scale is generally automatically a much more risky venture than doing different things in an existing scale, it was pretty clear (at least to me) that they would start out by playing it safe, and that means Marines and more Marines, and then Marines on top for starters. I'm even positively surprised that we get Imperial Army in the starter box...

IMHO their title for the game and the little box with 'Epic Scale' is grounds for cautious optimism: i see it as a sign that the first edition of this game is mostly 'imperial', i.e. early-heresy and uncorrupted stuff that is usable for both loyalists and traitors, and if that is succesful enough we may get a second edition / new starter maybe titled Legions: Traitoris with demons or whatever, and if that is also succesful we may (may) get something like Legions: Xenos or Legions: Crusade or something like that in ~10 years time, for effectively 3rd edition of this. If it survives that long, that is.

Anyone who has followed the credible rumours in recent months shouldn't be surprised by how things are turning out. Launching in the 30K setting means that only 1 faction needs to be catered for. The same was true for Adeptus Titanicus, so I don't see why people would be surprised by how things have played out.

What does surprise me is that the Solar Auxilia are represented in the launch box. I thought it would be just Space Marines. Maybe we'll see Adeptus Mechanicus too.


I would love to see a full blown relaunch of Epic, being able to represent any 40K 28mm army in Epic scale, plus all those other Titans, tanks and aircraft (and monstrous creatures where applicable) which can't easily be represented in the larger scale. This requires a massive investment from GW though, so I think it's going to be some time before we see that happen. If the sales of 30K Epic disappoint then we may never see a 40K version.

I certainly hope we will see the Ad Mech. If they are doing epic scale we need to see units that we wouldn’t see in other games. The old walking cathedrals probably didn’t exist in 30k but something of that size needs to be in the game

I didn't buy into AT as a game as it was imperials only. I've zero interest in a warhammer game that doesn't have orks or orcs.

But I did buy some of the AT models for use with E40k. They are lovely models. I have a number of 'spare' armies to lend out to my group to play against my orks and happy to paint up new models for forces I'm not that interested in myself.

I'm not that excited for a 30k focused release for Epic, but I'm not that bothered. If these models do match the more modern scale that passes for 6mm warhammer & alternatives, then I'll buy plenty of the starter set and bin the rules. Orks are well covered by other companies, as is almost every other 40k race.

Epic has done fine without GW for years now, and mediocre re-release of marines & pals isn't going to change that.

(On the flip side: Had this been a full Epic 40k release, I'd have probably sold off almost every other game I own including a vast WFB collection I've been adding too over lockdowns and brought enough of the new kits to pay for the moulds myself!)

No disappointment, all hype

You can play any sort of epic scale game with the new models, the interwebs is full of them rules

If Epic Imperialis sells well, more "Epic Scale" branded GW games will probably follow suit

 tauist wrote:
No disappointment, all hype

You can play any sort of epic scale game with the new models, the interwebs is full of them rules

If Epic Imperialis sells well, more "Epic Scale" branded GW games will probably follow suit

Yeah its kind of crazy just how many games/rules you can now play with a single set of Epic scale models, most of which require little no modification of a force to be completely playable.

Whilst people might be used to using 28mmminis across various games, its unusual for such a specialist scale/model line to be so usable & flexible.


I'm not a fan of the 'if we buy it, they will better support it/release more races going forward'. Its a poor way to get people to otherwise spend money on items they don't really want. But you are correct, if the game sells well enough we should see more releases going forward. I'd not be too disappointed if they added new races one at a time in campaign sets similar to this starter.

They could easily add Orks in the same way here- one set of minis split into two clans.

Yes, yes. We've all heard it before. Forge World didn't include your favorite faction so now some people are butthurt.

Well, I expect the people over at NetEpic will whip up a NetEpic:LI companion ruleset to cover whatever is missing, including all the 40k stuff as well as all the xenos stuff. Or, you and your friends could just play the current edition of NetEpic.

As for the missing models, there are plenty of people around who will 3D print them and send them to you for a "small" fee.

My concern currently is not with the game itself, it looks great, but with GW's current approach to "testing the waters".

They like to use the Horus Heresy as a testing ground. They can make half the amount of miniatures/sprues, sell twice as many miniatures, and gauge if it was successful or not before comitting to any Xenos forces. However, as it seems interest in Horus Heresy is lower than in 40K due to the lack of Xenos, I worry that this game won't reach the sales required in order for GW to commit to expanding the new "Epic Scale" rule set to 40K and Xenos.

It's a catch-22 - I see many people saying "I won't buy this as there's no Xenos", but unless people buy it GW won't bother with Xenos.

Alas, nothing to do but wait and see.

Don't really think this is a testing ground for Epic 40k (and for the naming I settle with Epic HH for now)

simple as the overall target group for HH themed games is a different one than for 40k, in addition the HH game aims for exiting players while an Epic 40k would aim at new ones
also GW would have different games for different themes, so EpicHH and Epic40k using the same rules as base would be unique

if you want Xenos you need to make sure this is going to sell out is a bold statement, specially as GW themselves never said that

But if GW brings back Mortheim next year this I will give credit for it being true (as if you want Mortheim back, buy Cursed City to show GW that we want that game instead)


Overall by now I am not really hyped, this might change with the price and the rules, but just from the box it feels like missing halve the content for an Epic game or at least 2 sprues of transports or terrain

so if the box is cheaper than expected this is less of a problem, also if the rules are good because it will be worth buying the box for the book
yet buying the box for the usual core box price with a rulebook you won't using and half the minis missing (not only the amount but the type) is not something I look forward to

Variety wise, it's more or less what I expected of a HH game.

Scope wise... it doesn't really look like Epic, more like "big-ish game of HH"

mrFickle wrote:
It’s called legions imperialis, I.e. legions of the imperium. I think that tells us everything.

But let me change the question, will you be disappointed if this game excludes non imperial fabctions

Epic was originally called Space Marine.

They’re following the established origin story for Epic. Make it a civil war to kick off, so you don’t have to worry about making too much of an investment. When it takes off, more can be added. Even if it’s a second version for 40K, and not simply adding Xenos, most of which had been thoroughly rekt by the Crusade or their own god birthing whoops-a-doodle, to the Heresy setting, that’s a job for the future.

It not being likely to be done in next couple of years doesn’t make it never going to happen.

mrFickle wrote:


But let me change the question, will you be disappointed if this game excludes non imperial fabctions

Nope.

beast_gts wrote:
The rumour is that AI Xenos sales are so low they decided to just go Imperials for the Epic relaunch.

lol, whered you see/hear that?? I posted something to that effect on saturday I think, but it was meant as a tongue in cheek joke, not an actual rumor lol.

(On the flip side: Had this been a full Epic 40k release, I'd have probably sold off almost every other game I own including a vast WFB collection I've been adding too over lockdowns and brought enough of the new kits to pay for the moulds myself!)

Probably why they went the route they did. They don't mind cannibalizing their 30k/HH sales, cannibalizing their 40k sales is a no-go.

chaos0xomega wrote:

mrFickle wrote:

beast_gts wrote:
The rumour is that AI Xenos sales are so low they decided to just go Imperials for the Epic relaunch.

lol, whered you see/hear that?? I posted something to that effect on saturday I think, but it was meant as a tongue in cheek joke, not an actual rumor lol.

It's just one of these self-perpetuating internet wisdoms. We know almost nothing about GWs sales, outside of a very few anecdotes that come straight from the horses mouth and have been mentioned now and then, but are in the most cases also severely dated (stuff like the initial sales of LotR coming close to Space Marines, or like the SM Tactical Squad box outselling entire lines of Warhammer Fantasy etc.). The more detailled such folk wisdom is said to be, the more you can bet on it having no factual basis whatsoever.

mrFickle wrote:
It’s called legions imperialis, I.e. legions of the imperium. I think that tells us everything.

Aeronautica Imperialis had Xenos from the first starter set. Just wait and see.

So the new ruins seem interesting:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/03/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-warhammer-the-horus-heresy-legions-imperialis/

But still not superior to what Grimdark Terrain already put out there...

 Skinnereal wrote:

mrFickle wrote:
It’s called legions imperialis, I.e. legions of the imperium. I think that tells us everything.

Aeronautica Imperialis had Xenos from the first starter set. Just wait and see.

Yes I didn’t realise that AI was a game set in 30k and that the models would be part LI. This give me hope for Xenos on an epic scale

beast_gts wrote:
The rumour is that AI Xenos sales are so low they decided to just go Imperials for the Epic relaunch.

Yea ok, that is purly GW`s own fault by making a game that is worse then the orginal FW AI from 07, so blaming the buyers for having a good sense of judgment and not buying a bad product, as a reason for not placing epic in 40k where it belongs!, is REALY low.

This is an automatic pass for me aslong as all xeno factions are NOT confirmed to be added from GW in plastics. 30k that is what AT is for!

 Malika2 wrote:
So the new ruins seem interesting:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/03/10-things-you-need-to-know-about-warhammer-the-horus-heresy-legions-imperialis/

But still not superior to what Grimdark Terrain already put out there...

Well, now I am disappointed.

Judging by the contents of the box, and the comments about rules, it seems 99% based on 1st/2nd edition. By far the least appropiate rules for big battles at this scale. Nothing from 3rd of 4th edition.

mrFickle wrote:

Yes I didn’t realise that AI was a game set in 30k and that the models would be part LI. This give me hope for Xenos on an epic scale

It wasn't, AI was firmly a 40k game until last year, when they launched the AI: The Horus Heresy expansion.

Saying that, when they introduced Marines into the game (very late, only two years ago) it was obvious to most that they were going to be tying it into The Horus Heresy. From the choice of aircraft to the amount of kits and detail that went into them, compared to Eldar which came out at the same time, and received only two very basic kits (with further craft being Forge World resin). It was unsurprising when they released The Horus Heresy expansion, and with the effort that went into the Marine kits the rumor was that they were all eventually intended to be used in Titanicus/Epic.

MrHobbles wrote:

mrFickle wrote:

Yes I didn’t realise that AI was a game set in 30k and that the models would be part LI. This give me hope for Xenos on an epic scale

It wasn't, AI was firmly a 40k game until last year, when they launched the AI: The Horus Heresy expansion..

My point about AI, was in response to this:

"It’s called legions imperialis, I.e. legions of the imperium. I think that tells us everything. ".

No it doesn't, based on AI being both 40k on release, and having an imperial name. 30k in AI came later.

Absolutely not, as a new official game means new players getting into the game and playing Epic. Honestly, I thought it was a travesty that the scale was unsupported officially for so long, so I'm glad GW have finally decided to re-release it.

I'll waive any other concerns until I have had an evening reading the rulebook and played a game. Absolutely worst case scenario (horribly over priced and the rules are a car-crash) it should at least bring in some new players into the Epic community, who otherwise might not have. Best case scenario, it takes its rightful place on the throne, and drives all other games before it

Like most people here, I wanted Epic to come back, complete with all the original Xenos and Heretic factions.

However, that seems unlikely to happen. GW know that the HH setting is one that has a very loyal fan base, and is a setting for those who want a bit more in their games. That and it means one set of models can work as both traitor and loyalist. The setting of HH, is also one that facilities big battlè between huge forces (with Titans, Tank companies, fleets of aircraft, etc) very well. So, it was only natural that GW release Epic in the HH setting.

What is going to be interesting to see, is how the release of HH Epic impacts on both AI and AT. I suspect those games will be allowed to fade away, while the parts that work in HH Epic get moved over to their new home.

That said, it might be time for me to buy that Ork fleet I've always wanted, before they disappear.

Well...AI is already fading away if FW's "last chance to buy" policy is anything to go by...

Looks like GW were tracking whatbI said. All the Xenos are now last chance to buy on GW site... and some have gone.

So AI is now a dead game.

Or being repackaged for re-release as LI kits.

I doubt we'll be seeing any Xenos in LI.