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https://www.warhammer-community.com/2023/07/24/space-marine-range-update-bikes-land-speeders-and-more-are-soon-zooming-off-into-the-sunset/

Boy I hope we get cards for command bike squads in that last

How many of these have a ready parallel in HH?

How badly does this hurt your collections?

https://1drv.ms/i/s!Ag0Y24C9DrHS9hUSocCDpton76C_?e=1i4t0X

I’ve got everything on that list, multiples of about half of them.

It will be interesting to see what gets new kits, and if primaris versions get options to counts-as in the new codex.

If I need to use vanguard vet stats for assault marines when I pull from my firstborn battle company I will. More worried about bike options.

You have to wonder what the heck GW was thinking giving these units useful data cards for 10th Index if they were going to turn around and retire them as soon as the codex came out

I mean, look at the vast difference between the Vanguard Veterans and Assault Marine data cards. The Assault Marines card covers all the different weapons options of the unit while Vanguard Veterans have a generic weapon for the entire squad to the point they forgot what a Power Fist is.

I'm hoping/guessing the legend cards will look really similar (identical) to the index cards

Jesus, the part about running Assault space marines as Venguard is vicious. They gave Venguards horrible rules, so bad no one wants to run them and now they say that people that run RAS should just counts them as that? Brutal. Run bikers for special weapons, with upgrades sgts etc "oh you can replace it as outriders" who are nothing like the squad.

They said as much in the Warhammer Community article. I suppose they will take a chance to sort out any problem rules and keep them in line with any changes they make in the codex rules for Astartes.

I get retiring the finecast stuff, but not scouts and our glassjaw assault hovercrafts that have existed from the earliest editions of the game!
I take it they're just going to Legend chaos bikers at this point.

*maybe we'll get a 'we found an STC' gravbikes this edition?

Karol wrote:
Jesus, the part about running Assault space marines as Venguard is vicious. They gave Venguards horrible rules, so bad no one wants to run them and now they say that people that run RAS should just counts them as that? Brutal. Run bikers for special weapons, with upgrades sgts etc "oh you can replace it as outriders" who are nothing like the squad.

Vanguard are almost certainly due a new kit much like sternguard, so their options/rules will likely change at that point.

With regards the bikers, that's not too egregious really. The outrider models fairly represent the core identity of Marine bikes and if the only attachment to the unit of bikes was special weapons, you can still get those elsewhere.

Eff GW.

I love my Land Speeders, Bikes, Assault Squads, Scouts, etc.

Happy to still be able to use Tacs and Devs, but it's particularly eggregious to retire Assault Squads if those are sticking around.

Eff Primaris and their horsedung.

Dudeface 810926 11570844 wrote:

Vanguard are almost certainly due a new kit much like sternguard, so their options/rules will likely change at that point.

With regards the bikers, that's not too egregious really. The outrider models fairly represent the core identity of Marine bikes and if the only attachment to the unit of bikes was special weapons, you can still get those elsewhere.

They have bad rules and limited squad size, they don't have the special weapons or the melee weapons regular bikes have. I am not saying that bikes in 10th are the second coming of Christ for marines, but even they are better, because of the extra gear. 3 dudes with chain swords are never going to be as good as same dudes with plasma and fist. It looks to me like a way to force people to rebuy their armies, while at the same time killing the secondary market, just so new players have to buy the new stuff, because the olds stuff is both no longer produced and is being given venguard style rules.

The scouts are a wierd choice too. People bought them till they were gone from the online store, because sniper scouts are actualy good. Now they are suppose to be removed and replaced with , maybe enliminators, but those are 3 models per box, so to make the unit work sm players would have to wait till GW changes the unit to being 5-10, which again would require a new box of models. That is like, potentialy, waiting for 1-2 editions. No idea when they are going to be doing the BA, SW and DA etc specific units too. It could be very long and I am not sure the game is going to be alive in 10 years.

Karol wrote:

Dudeface 810926 11570844 wrote:

Vanguard are almost certainly due a new kit much like sternguard, so their options/rules will likely change at that point.

With regards the bikers, that's not too egregious really. The outrider models fairly represent the core identity of Marine bikes and if the only attachment to the unit of bikes was special weapons, you can still get those elsewhere.

They have bad rules and limited squad size, they don't have the special weapons or the melee weapons regular bikes have. I am not saying that bikes in 10th are the second coming of Christ for marines, but even they are better, because of the extra gear. 3 dudes with chain swords are never going to be as good as same dudes with plasma and fist. It looks to me like a way to force people to rebuy their armies, while at the same time killing the secondary market, just so new players have to buy the new stuff, because the olds stuff is both no longer produced and is being given venguard style rules.

The scouts are a wierd choice too. People bought them till they were gone from the online store, because sniper scouts are actualy good. Now they are suppose to be removed and replaced with , maybe enliminators, but those are 3 models per box, so to make the unit work sm players would have to wait till GW changes the unit to being 5-10, which again would require a new box of models. That is like, potentialy, waiting for 1-2 editions. No idea when they are going to be doing the BA, SW and DA etc specific units too. It could be very long and I am not sure the game is going to be alive in 10 years.

Like I said, if you only take bikes for power fists and plasma, maybe it's not the bikes you're attached to.

Regarding scouts, there is a new kit coming for them apparently, so quite possibly a 1:1 and no need for proxies. Failing that, more fool people chasing the meta and panic buying.

DA have a book in Spring and have had the lion released, so I'd put money on them getting a wave shortly, it's quite possible they'll all get 2-3 kits this edition tbh.

Good bye, classic scouts. You were oddly shaped and a little ugly, but very fun to make kit-bashes out of.

Wish they just ripped the band-aid off in 8th edition. It seems we're finally getting a good chunk pulled out now.

Yes sucks for those that care for the old rules, but I think official "count-as" is what they should have done since the introduction of Primaris and the "obvious" replacement they were suppose to be for mini-marines.

The loss of the "Man Chin" Scouts doesn't bother me because we know we're getting a new Scout kit.

The other things though... this is a bad day for 40k.

I’m half expecting all of these to have direct replacements in the forthcoming range release.

Bikes feel kind of redundant with the ones from 9th, and we also have the larger Land Speeder things.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The loss of the "Man Chin" Scouts doesn't bother me because we know we're getting a new Scout kit.

Is that actually confirmed or still just a rumor?

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
I’m half expecting all of these to have direct replacements in the forthcoming range release.

Bikes feel kind of redundant with the ones from 9th, and we also have the larger Land Speeder things.

Yeah, but the replacements will be in the gaudy chinese knockoff primaris style, with too many nonsensical guns bolted to everything and a hodge-podge of style elements that does not quite fit together. It's a sad day to see classic kits go away, to be replaced with stuff that many find aesthetically inferior. I'm not against Primaris in general, and some sculpts are very nice, but overall the vehicle designs just don't do it for me, and i think a lot of people feel the same.

Tsagualsa wrote:

Yeah, but the replacements will be in the gaudy chinese knockoff primaris style, with too many nonsensical guns bolted to everything

This... the primaris vehicles just seem so inconsistent with everything we've had in the past... especially the turret on the Repulsor... hard to look at that. I'm the guy that has every upgrade glued onto his LRBTs too... and they're not even close to as busy as the repulsor transport

Eh, not all the Primaris vehicles are bad. The Impulsor is fine, the Dreads are great and meaty, the Predator equivalents are.....alright. I'm not big on the hovering aspect of some of those, though.

The Repulsive and the Eyesore are two vehicles that are just awful.

The Gladiators are mostly fine though.

EviscerationPlague wrote:
Is that actually confirmed or still just a rumor?

If anything, the removal of all the Scouts only enhances the rumour.

It's fair to say I'm not pleased by this announcement. In the absence of knowing what release marines will get over the next 12 months... Some of those choices seem to be very strange. Hopefully this means real scout models are coming and jump pack marines are coming... But do we trust that to be true, and furthermore do we trust the new models won't be offensive to look at? Assault intercessors with mkvii style jump packs will mollify me. Basically any alternative style you care to name will only annoy me further.

The loss of classic land speeders will be mourned. I do not like the new ones.

Assuming these units get Legends entries it doesn't hurt me or my collection at all.

If they don't get Legends entries it'll vary by who I'm playing. But many* of the people I play with will have no problem using the last version of the 10e unit card & pts for any such missing units. Well just treat them as honorary Legends.

*Those few who will object will simply have to fight 6 Ctan shards or some other BS.....

I've got quite a bit of those things for my Dark Angels. A huge chunk of my Ravenwing has been gutted, although at least I can use the bikes to proxy as Outriders (although they'll look a bit silly next to real Outriders). I've got like 28 Scouts (both Sniper and regular, including the long OOP Sergeant Naaman) and 6 Scout Bikes that are going the way of the dodo, but I'm not sad about that as the models are awful. I've also got some Assault Marines, including 10 on foot and 5 with jump packs. Plus a Techmarine who is now going to be homeless. I never had any Stalker/Hunters or Tfire Cannons or Ironclad Dreadies, and I've got some classic angry washing machines that are still going to be usable. I'm not sure whether I'll sell a lot of that to make room (and money) for more Primaris stuff or if I'll hang on to it for nostalgia's sake. Damn shame, but I know it's for the best, as the Marine range is bloated to a comical degree and they are still releasing more new stuff for them.

so long as the new scouts can load in an impulsor there's no real need for a replacement for the LS storm IMHO

What about "It's fun for Scouts to have their own transport"? Seems like a pretty good reason to me.

But they are getting rid of Land Speeders and bikes, so I guess it doesn't make sense to leave one behind.

 alextroy wrote:
You have to wonder what the heck GW was thinking giving these units useful data cards for 10th Index if they were going to turn around and retire them as soon as the codex came out

I mean, look at the vast difference between the Vanguard Veterans and Assault Marine data cards. The Assault Marines card covers all the different weapons options of the unit while Vanguard Veterans have a generic weapon for the entire squad to the point they forgot what a Power Fist is.

That's what I'm thinking. This was really a mistake. Especially for those units that got a fairly good data card in the PDF and are now leaving after those datacards generated some sales.

BrianDavion wrote:
so long as the new scouts can load in an impulsor there's no real need for a replacement for the LS storm IMHO

Impulsors are ugly af tho.

I'm pretty unaffected. The only things this really impacts for me are:

A.) My assault marines are vanguard vets now (which I usually ran them as already anyway).
B.) My dreads are all just dreads. Which is fine and a change I've kind of been hoping for for a while now.
C.) I have to decide whether or not I still want to build my techmarine or if I want to try to convert him into something cool.

I'm glad to see some of the marine datasheets being cleaned up, but I do feel like this could have been approached a bit better. I would have preferred that GW combine things like outriders and old bikers together into a single sheet instead of presenting it as the old bikers "going away". That, and I'm pretty iffy on the new skimmers for lore reasons.

 Wyldhunt wrote:
B.) My dreads are all just dreads. Which is fine and a change I've kind of been hoping for for a while now.

Do the current Dread rules allow for:

1. Siege Drills.
2. Chainfists.
3. Hurricane Bolters.
4. HK missiles.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Wyldhunt wrote:
B.) My dreads are all just dreads. Which is fine and a change I've kind of been hoping for for a while now.

Do the current Dread rules allow for:

1. Siege Drills.
2. Chainfists.
3. Hurricane Bolters.
4. HK missiles.

No, but my dreads don't have those anyway, so selfishly I'm fine.

(The better approach probably would have been to lump the Ironclad gear options in with a consolidated datasheet. It's probably not super broken to let people take, say, a siege drill in combination with a TL lascannon.)