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My pickup games are just opportunities to tune my GT list. I don't use them because I don't want to get used to writing lists with and using a model that won't be legal when my games actually matter.

I'm what you might call casual competitive. I like the challenge, and I'd like to play against a serious list, but I would rather lose and have fun than win and have a disgruntled opponent.

Go ahead and bring out all the weirdo units. I'm sure many of us didn't spent thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours converting to have a bunch of paperweights

Today I learned that "assault Marines" are a "weirdo unit"

It always has been

It depends what you call legends, if it are units that where i a codex at some time, then yes.
I have a bigger problem with unis from forge world models rules because those are often overpowered or dont belong in a 40k games.

 skeleton wrote:
It depends what you call legends, if it are units that where i a codex at some time, then yes.
I have a bigger problem with unis from forge world models rules because those are often overpowered or dont belong in a 40k games.

I find this opinion amusing because at this point there’s way more OP stuff in the base GW codexes than the forgeworld indexes. Frankly if balance is the issue, just start banning units across all the rules. It’s been years since forge world has been a pay to depository.

Virtually everyone has a little dream in the back of their head of their army being in a good place in the meta, being good with it, “breaking the code” on what to run, having the time to go to events, and then pulling out huge wins getting warhammer fame and glory.

As soon as you put a legends unit in your list, you kill that dream. Your list will never get recognition as a “great competitive list,” and all the tactical acumen you foster and show when using that unit, if not the whole army, will amount to nothing.

It’s the same reason many magic players won’t use unglued/unhinged etc cards, even if they don’t currently go to tourneys. (There are plenty of reasonable ones in those sets that don’t require you to dance or scream or whatever.)

There’s a huge psychological block to get past to run a card or model that the mother company, aka “word of god,” has said to be “not tournament legal.” They’re the game designers after all, they must know that something’s wrong with it in the context of a balanced game, right?

 niv-mizzet wrote:
Virtually everyone has a little dream in the back of their head of their army being in a good place in the meta, being good with it, “breaking the code” on what to run, having the time to go to events, and then pulling out huge wins getting warhammer fame and glory.

As soon as you put a legends unit in your list, you kill that dream. Your list will never get recognition as a “great competitive list,” and all the tactical acumen you foster and show when using that unit, if not the whole army, will amount to nothing.

It’s the same reason many magic players won’t use unglued/unhinged etc cards, even if they don’t currently go to tourneys. (There are plenty of reasonable ones in those sets that don’t require you to dance or scream or whatever.)

There’s a huge psychological block to get past to run a card or model that the mother company, aka “word of god,” has said to be “not tournament legal.” They’re the game designers after all, they must know that something’s wrong with it in the context of a balanced game, right?

Fortunately I don't give a crap about A) the meta, B) pulling off huge wins for WH fame & glory, or C) since I don't do tourneys, what GW says is/isn't tournament legal.

And my dream? It's pretty simple. Have the time & opportunity to play several fun games per week. Most weeks I manage to accomplish it.

 niv-mizzet wrote:
Virtually everyone has a little dream in the back of their head of their army being in a good place in the meta, being good with it, “breaking the code” on what to run, having the time to go to events, and then pulling out huge wins getting warhammer fame and glory.

As soon as you put a legends unit in your list, you kill that dream. Your list will never get recognition as a “great competitive list,” and all the tactical acumen you foster and show when using that unit, if not the whole army, will amount to nothing.

It’s the same reason many magic players won’t use unglued/unhinged etc cards, even if they don’t currently go to tourneys. (There are plenty of reasonable ones in those sets that don’t require you to dance or scream or whatever.)

There’s a huge psychological block to get past to run a card or model that the mother company, aka “word of god,” has said to be “not tournament legal.” They’re the game designers after all, they must know that something’s wrong with it in the context of a balanced game, right?

I don’t want to go so far to say "virtually nobody has the dream you describe", but I think it's a rather special case. If anything I'd say what people dream of is a narrative campaign where they can play their army how they imagine it, but the rules hardly provide that so it needs more work than most people can put into the game that's why it's just a dream.
So, if you care about tournaments that "block" may apply to you, but in my experience most people shrug and say: Well, here's my miniature, I painted it, there are the rules for it, so I put it on the table, end of the Story.

Great examples of why you don't speak for others, especially about what they want out of the hobby...

It’s odd isn’t it that even on here there are very vocal comments that you can’t play legends and no one does but the poll shows the the vast majority do at least some of the time. It’s been an eye opener for me, I assume that outside of my circle of mates where anything goes really the community is very against these thins because that’s what you here every time legends are brought up , but in reality things seem a little more relaxed.

 niv-mizzet wrote:
Virtually everyone has a little dream in the back of their head of their army being in a good place in the meta, being good with it, “breaking the code” on what to run, having the time to go to events, and then pulling out huge wins getting warhammer fame and glory.

As soon as you put a legends unit in your list, you kill that dream. Your list will never get recognition as a “great competitive list,” and all the tactical acumen you foster and show when using that unit, if not the whole army, will amount to nothing.

....no.

I literally couldn't care less, and neither would anyone in my local group for the past 20 years.

yeah, i just want my night lords to be able to run rapier carriers, sicarans and javelins (yeah i know, theyre not even allowed in legends lol, let me go fast)

ccs 810944 11576458 wrote:
Fortunately I don't give a crap about A) the meta, B) pulling off huge wins for WH fame & glory, or C) since I don't do tourneys, what GW says is/isn't tournament legal.

And my dream? It's pretty simple. Have the time & opportunity to play several fun games per week. Most weeks I manage to accomplish it.

Okey, but that is like saying that as long as it is good for you the fact that it is bad for a lot of people, it does not matter. And I think it matters a lot for the people who are having problem with the legends system and GW phasing out model lines or even games.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
yeah, i just want my night lords to be able to run rapier carriers, sicarans and javelins (yeah i know, theyre not even allowed in legends lol, let me go fast)

Easy fix for all of that, including the Javelins.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
yeah, i just want my night lords to be able to run rapier carriers, sicarans and javelins (yeah i know, theyre not even allowed in legends lol, let me go fast)

Easy fix for all of that, including the Javelins.

oh yeah i know, don't worry, i plan on playing more 30k once the 10th release hype dies down locally (probably around the Epic release tbh)

Karol wrote:

ccs 810944 11576458 wrote:
Fortunately I don't give a crap about A) the meta, B) pulling off huge wins for WH fame & glory, or C) since I don't do tourneys, what GW says is/isn't tournament legal.

And my dream? It's pretty simple. Have the time & opportunity to play several fun games per week. Most weeks I manage to accomplish it.

Okey, but that is like saying that as long as it is good for you the fact that it is bad for a lot of people, it does not matter. And I think it matters a lot for the people who are having problem with the legends system and GW phasing out model lines or even games.

It's not.
Those people having problems? Outside of tournament play, they're CHOOSING for it to be bad for themselves by still insisting on using a tournament restriction. They don't have to do that. My hope is that eventually these people will get fed up with having a shelf full of models that they mistakenly believe they can't use anymore & will change their approach/attitudes towards Legends.

As for whole games being phased out? So what? If there's a game you like to play & you can find others to play it with? Keep playing it! Good example: WHFB

I have never seen any place locally allow Legends. Even the casual gamers will say that legends aren't allowed (despite that not being true) and most of them will ask that you don't use them although a few will probably give in if you insist.

In my area at least if something goes legends then it may as well be deleted entirely because nobody is going to let you use it

Wayniac wrote:
I have never seen any place locally allow Legends. Even the casual gamers will say that legends aren't allowed (despite that not being true) and most of them will ask that you don't use them although a few will probably give in if you insist.

Do you get to request that they don't use valid units in return?

I use HH dreads with my Word Bearer's army all the time. But I haven't gone to a tournament in ages. It's just not fun when some sweat brings 9 Leman Russ Vanquishes to a 'friendly tournament'.

ccs wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
I have never seen any place locally allow Legends. Even the casual gamers will say that legends aren't allowed (despite that not being true) and most of them will ask that you don't use them although a few will probably give in if you insist.

Do you get to request that they don't use valid units in return?

No, not if they aren't using "illegal" configurations (eg. Legends)

 13thWarrior wrote:
But I haven't gone to a tournament in ages. It's just not fun when some sweat brings 9 Leman Russ Vanquishes to a 'friendly tournament'.

This is a hilarious example of why people who don't have at least some involvement in competitive play should avoid commenting on balance and design issues. The LR Vanquisher is one of the worst units in the game and the only reason a list of nine of them wouldn't be fun for the other player is that it would be too easy to 100-0 such an awful list.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

 13thWarrior wrote:
But I haven't gone to a tournament in ages. It's just not fun when some sweat brings 9 Leman Russ Vanquishes to a 'friendly tournament'.

This is a hilarious example of why people who don't have at least some involvement in competitive play should avoid commenting on balance and design issues. The LR Vanquisher is one of the worst units in the game and the only reason a list of nine of them wouldn't be fun for the other player is that it would be too easy to 100-0 such an awful list.

Whoa, we got a badass over here...

 Just Tony wrote:
Whoa, we got a badass over here...

Spam insults all you like it's still true. People who don't at least follow competitive play tend to have all kinds of weird misunderstandings about balance and design issues, like coming up with a hypothetical example of a supposed WAAC TFG ruining a fun tournament with a list that hasn't even been remotely viable in at least a decade. Maybe some guy at 13thWarrior's kitchen table casual games has a LR Vanquisher and rolled hot a couple times but without any awareness of the larger metagame he'll never realize how silly it is to complain about that particular unit being overpowered.

(Or, to give a more relevant example, skeleton's complaint about FW legends units being "overpowered" or "not belonging in 40k games" while legends rules that were once in a codex are somehow different and acceptable.)

So what I've learned from both posts is that you were so focused on one sliver of minutiae that you missed the point, which was a very valid point, and that your gaming skills are just that much better than everyone else's.

Wayniac wrote:

ccs wrote:

Wayniac wrote:
I have never seen any place locally allow Legends. Even the casual gamers will say that legends aren't allowed (despite that not being true) and most of them will ask that you don't use them although a few will probably give in if you insist.

Do you get to request that they don't use valid units in return?

No, not if they aren't using "illegal" configurations (eg. Legends)

Since it's GW who wrote the 10e Legends rules and told you that these are valid rules for use in non-tounament games, if your not in a tournament gane wich entries are illegal configurations?

 Just Tony wrote:
So what I've learned from both posts is that you were so focused on one sliver of minutiae that you missed the point, which was a very valid point, and that your gaming skills are just that much better than everyone else's.

What point was that? All I see is a generic complaint about "WAAC TFG tournament players don't understand fun" offering nothing that hasn't been said countless times already. The only thing interesting about it is the fact that the person making the complaint is so detached from the reality of 40k balance and design that their idea of a TFG list is to spam one of the worst units in the game in a list that isn't even legal.



Automatically Appended Next Post:

ccs wrote:
Since it's GW who wrote the 10e Legends rules and told you that these are valid rules for use in non-tounament games, if your not in a tournament gane wich entries are illegal configurations?

Legends rules are de facto illegal in most groups because GW doesn't keep them current and compatible with the rest of the game. They can say "these are legal" all they want but when their actions say otherwise people are inevitably going to care more about the reality of the rules in question than the exact wording of GW's description of them.

Interesting you would say "de facto illegal", considering that, de facto, illegalness is a matter of de jure.

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

Legends rules are de facto illegal in most groups ...

On what data are you basing this claim? Genuinely curious.

 insaniak wrote:

 ThePaintingOwl wrote:

Legends rules are de facto illegal in most groups ...

On what data are you basing this claim? Genuinely curious.

Not this poll, certainly.